Homosexuals- Treatment of in Scientology

xenusdad

Patron with Honors
I consider myself a bit of an expert in this subject because I am an openly gay ex-Scio and count an openly gay attorney (Graham Berry) as a dear friend.

Scientology is notoriously hateful & hostile towards homosexuality and the gay community in general. As many an ex-Scio can tell you, there is a HUGE disconnect between what Scientology purports to be the facts from a purely PR and marketing/profitability front ("Show me the money..") and what they truly believe and put out to it's subservient members.

Keith Relkin, a 2nd generation Scientologist tried to pull a charade on the public when he proclaimed himself to be a happy, productive, openly gay Scientologist: http://www.liveandgrow.org/fab-scn.html

I posted a history on Keith and his efforts to decieve:

http://forums.whyweprotest.net/291-...-openly-gay-scientologist-rejoins-cult-49014/

Interestingly, a member of Keith's "Clear Rainbow" Yahoo! group (long disbanded) was Rex Fowler, the OTVII owner of Fowler Software, awaiting trial on 1st degree murder charges in Denver, CO. Rex posted as "OT Cowboy".

Scientology's hatred of homsexuals is clearly apparent in the dead agenting & Fair Game tactics I was exposed to when I spoke out against the cult. The same happened to Graham Berry. Our sexual orientation became a focal point in OSA's flagrant attempts to use it as a means to accuse us of being child molesters, deliberately infecting others with AIDS, and engaging in bestiality, etc. solely intended to slander and demean. (I am HIV+; Graham Berry is not).

I continue to get emails from people about Scientology's official take on homosexuality. Obviously, the cult's PR attempts to distance themselves from how they truly feel about it, continues to confuse & befuddle people today. Honestly, I get quite tired of talking about it and trying to explain the two sides of the organization.

Well said Smurf, I can't be bothered going into all the details but that Keith guy is just so wrong in so many ways.

Oh and ^ what everyone said is so right.
 

xguardian

Patron with Honors
suggest asking for some quotes from Quentin.

As I posted before, I was Quentins bodyguard when he came to N.Cal
He openly discussed his proclivities with me as we became friends and his persuasion was evident by his mannerisms. However he suppressed the activity as much as possible, relating to me he even feared talking to me as he attested to have run that abberation out. He feared his Fathers wrath.:coolwink:
 

PeterMan

Patron with Honors
New Age Homosexuality

Another New Age perspective, however, is that of Eckhart Tolle, author of The Power of Now. Starting with the idea that "the realization that you are 'different' from others may force you to dissidentify from socially conditioned patterns of thought and behavior," he claims that being gay can help in the "quest for enlightenment", but only so long as one does not "develop a sense of identity based on... gayness."

-Wikipedia
 

xenusdad

Patron with Honors
Use of a hubbardism

In other words, don't adopt a false valence. Makes sense to me.

Why would you even use that word?
Hubbard took an innocent word and totally changed the meaning.
Please stop perpetutating bullshit, the world and I have had enough.
Re-write the above sentence, removing the "v" word.
Thank you.
 

thetanic

Gold Meritorious Patron
I charge $10,000 per word added, changed, or removed at a user request. Where shall I send the bill?
 

xenusdad

Patron with Honors
I charge $10,000 per word added, changed, or removed at a user request. Where shall I send the bill?

Oh well in that case, leave the word there, but remember that outside $cilontoolgy it has completely different meanings.
 

PeterMan

Patron with Honors
Learning from History

Have you ever wondered why the whites even thought of using blacks as slaves? Because they thought of them as animals - a lesser life form.

Now, the white race has learned that blacks can do anything that the white person can do, thus are equals. The white race is swallowing that bullet.

Next comes the homosexual bullet.
 

xenusdad

Patron with Honors
Have you ever wondered why the whites even thought of using blacks as slaves? Because they thought of them as animals - a lesser life form.

Now, the white race has learned that blacks can do anything that the white person can do, thus are equals. The white race is swallowing that bullet.

Next comes the homosexual bullet.

Yes, make them swallow that homo-bullet!
 

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
Looking again at the definition of the 2D, bisexuality would be the natural thing for a spirit that can inhabit a male or female body. Revulsion for sex with either male or female would be aberrated.(1) Homophobia therefore is aberrated. I'm not saying that all good scientologists must have bisexual experiences but if someone believes they are a spirit and not a body the revulsion of same sex sex, or opposite sex sex would be proof they are being their body have case or they are being their social conditioning, all of which are wrong in cult terms.

What upset Rong most about gayness was public opinion, he was PTS to middle class morality. He didn't want scandal, he didnt want people to think his tech failed or that he was the type of father that could produce a gay son. Per his understanding that would prove that Mary Sue was stronger than him, as gay boys result from strong mothers and week fathers.(2)

Also I do remember the bit in mission earth where some lesbians got serviced by a real man and became straight instantly. He just didn't understand the concept. He wasn't very good at looking from someone else's viewpoint.

1. Who says it's "Revulsion"? Sometimes it's just a case of non-attraction, or it doesn't "work". While I was in the org, there was a general consensus that I was probably "female" last life--maybe. I have been with women and it just doesn't work, perhaps because most of my interactions with females beyond social chit-chat were disastrous. On light "socialization", I can be equally with a group of guys or girls and have no difficulty in conversation and, I freely admit, I am open to the possibility that any life partner I find may turn out to be of either sex.

2. There was nothing weak about my Father. Without him in my life, I am a wreck, even if I could never have told him I was gay.

Didn't Ron claim to be Cecil Rhodes in past life?

Didn't Cecil Rhodes have homosexual tendencies?:confused2:

Opter

Yes.

:giggle:

No doubt about it, matey! :)

Would I really be any happier now? Life is no a rehearsal, I can only speculate. Certainly, I believe I would be far better off without the Scn damage and, no offence, but the number of friends that I wouldn't have now as a result appears quite small.

Simplistic views like normal or perverse come from religious bigots and the porn trade, not from reality. Not all men that have sex with other men consider themselves to be homosexuals. Humans are very complicated beings.

I know an Egyptian man who was arrested for willingly bending over for another guy. The guy who shagged him was doing nothing wrong, he was a witness at the trial! Cultures vary on concepts, to the Egyptians the man with the erection pumping away was just doing what comes naturally while the guy biting his pillow was a danger to decent society.

Religions and law should have nothing to do with sex when it it is between consenting adults.

For some men sexual enjoyment is about being dominant. Often the dominance of a man over a woman. To me that is perverse, but it is fine by most religious texts, even if a bit of force enters in to it. Even if it's at controlling bodies on the tome scale.

I think current labels of gay bi or straight are vastly inadequate. Sexuality is variable, it varies between individuals and families and cultures. At it's best sex can be fun and enjoyable, emotionally uplifting regardless of the sex of the people involved, certainly not deadly serious and the subject of blackmail by a cult.

What is "perverse"? I personally dislike kissing, yet in our culture kissing in public is perfectly acceptable. In some Eurasian cultures kissing is unacceptable, and Gone with the Wind was a very bizarrely edited movie. It seems that for some audiences, Scarlet's dress was too "low cut" and so graphic artists were called in to "India Ink" each frame of the film to cover up more of her cleavage, hence the top of her dress shimmers up and down throughout the entire movie! (Now one of those prints would be a wind-fall for my movie-collection.)

Yes. Simplistic views seem to be the rule of society. "I'm not gay but, the guy I was fucking last night told me his boyfriend was gay."

I agree that the Biblical and general religious approach to sexual relationships is unduly Patriarcal--but it also has to do with control through guilt over having dome something that was enjoyable.

I remember reading in a "Women's Behavior Guide" that the wife was required to satisfy her husbands bedroom requirements, but only to the extent that it would stop him straying and no more!

To be honest, because men think with their little heads more often than their big ones, they can be very easily "pussy-whipped". If more women realized they have this power, then some equality may ensue.
 

Rene Descartes

Gold Meritorious Patron
All I can say is that if family's who suck up to the SoS bull and other claptrap regarding LRH's view on homosexuality fully applied the LRH tech then they would be disconnecting form their homosexual children, writing up SP declares on them and even fairgaming them.

For someone who claimed to undestand a lot about the analytical mind and the reactive mind, two things which I have yet to see proof of their existence, LRH sure could not make a plain and simple conclusion such as...

Not all homosexuals are perverts

Not all perverts are homosexuals

If LRH had to use full programming logic and write in exclusions privy to all of human behavior he would not have been able to write Science of Survival in 3 days.

Regarding his charts from that book - all theoretical.

Someone might add theoretical bullshit.

But I imagine that to LRH "theory" meant the same as "truth" when it was his theory that was being considered.

Rd00
 

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
All I can say is that if family's who suck up to the SoS bull and other claptrap regarding LRH's view on homosexuality fully applied the LRH tech then they would be disconnecting form their homosexual children, writing up SP declares on them and even fairgaming them.

For someone who claimed to undestand a lot about the analytical mind and the reactive mind, two things which I have yet to see proof of their existence, LRH sure could not make a plain and simple conclusion such as...

Not all homosexuals are perverts

Not all perverts are homosexuals

If LRH had to use full programming logic and write in exclusions privy to all of human behavior he would not have been able to write Science of Survival in 3 days.

Regarding his charts from that book - all theoretical.

Someone might add theoretical bullshit.

But I imagine that to LRH "theory" meant the same as "truth" when it was his theory that was being considered.

Rd00

Freud made the same mistake, tying all people's hangups to unexpressed sexuality inside the family unit. While hubbard's long-hated psychs have continued down this blind alley for years, they all fail to take into account that Freud himself renounced all his work when it emerged that his own sister had been molested within the family--he could not confront that such a "crime" had happened under his nose in exactly the same way that ron could not confront Quentin's homosexuality.
 

Rene Descartes

Gold Meritorious Patron
I think more appropriately Hubbard could not confront the "crime" that his theory was headed for the sewers.

At that point he would have to make it a "crime" to not be in agreement with his "theory" or rather to not consider his "theory" to be "truth".

Rd00
 

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
I think more appropriately Hubbard could not confront the "crime" that his theory was headed for the sewers.

At that point he would have to make it a "crime" to not be in agreement with his "theory" or rather to not consider his "theory" to be "truth".

Rd00

Agreed. And Hubbard couldn't "renounce" it, because it was all his writing, and there was no scapegoat like David Mayo available.
 

FinallyFree

Gold Meritorious Patron
I agree with Um - read science of survival. scientologists thinks gays are evil. period. anything else is a lie.
They will take the money of openly gay people. I know of two gay men who brought their whole bridge to be "cured" of being gay. BOTH asked for and got refunds because auditing didn't cure them of their homosexuality.
 

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
Another New Age perspective, however, is that of Eckhart Tolle, author of The Power of Now. Starting with the idea that "the realization that you are 'different' from others may force you to dissidentify from socially conditioned patterns of thought and behavior," he claims that being gay can help in the "quest for enlightenment", but only so long as one does not "develop a sense of identity based on... gayness."

-Wikipedia

I understand this. While still dealing with this as a personal issue, I was asked outright by an obviously gay gay (not hitting on me, but wanting to discuss the issue), if I was "homophobic". My answer was "No. I am not homophobic but, I am queenphobic."

e.g., Will Truman of Will & Grace, I would find attractive, but Jack would send me batty in less than a week. It should be noted that I refer to the characters because both actors are straight; Whereas John Barrowman--Captain Jack in Dr Who 2005+ and Torchwood is genuinely gay and was rejected from Will and Grace because the casting staff didn't think he was "gay" enough!?

So being Gay as what you are is fine, but "Gayist" is just like "Scientologist".

I do note that most of this thread has been devoted to male homosexuality, and female homosexuality hasn't exactly attracted much attention--again I have worked with gay females any have no problem, but start to have problems with I encounter the pseudo-trucker personality of black singlet, really short hair and therefore project an over "masculine" ~ism that is just as destructive to their social perception.
 

thetanic

Gold Meritorious Patron
e.g., Will Truman of Will & Grace, I would find attractive, but Jack would send me batty in less than a week. It should be noted that I refer to the characters because both actors are straight; Whereas John Barrowman--Captain Jack in Dr Who 2005+ and Torchwood is genuinely gay and was rejected from Will and Grace because the casting staff didn't think he was "gay" enough!?

I think Barrowman is awesome in any role, including his current role in Desperate Housewives.

I do note that most of this thread has been devoted to male homosexuality, and female homosexuality hasn't exactly attracted much attention--again I have worked with gay females any have no problem, but start to have problems with I encounter the pseudo-trucker personality of black singlet, really short hair and therefore project an over "masculine" ~ism that is just as destructive to their social perception.

That's your hangup more than theirs, though.

I've seen gender presentations all over the map. One of my good friends is bi and genderqueer (not the same thing as transsexual nor necessarily the same as crossdressing either, though that is a form of genderqueer), and I've given up on pronouns and just use my friend's name instead.
 
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