How Dangerous is New OTVII (Solo NOTs)

[Vinaire]

Apparently you are the only one, at least on this thread.


Mark A. Baker

You are the evaluator supreme, Mark!

I took your advice and am word clearing Roger's post.

The first thing I got out of Roger's disseratation is how wrong other's are! Very telling.

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[Vinaire]

Roger stated:

To fail to do this when any spiritual connection manifests and gets in the way of progressing the client himself to the recovery of his true states a of Being is disastrous. It produces enormous extra charge on the case, it by-passes enormous existing charge on the chase, it gives the client wrong indications, wrong whys, wrong whats, and LOSSES tying to handle areas of case incorrectly.

What are true states of a being? To be a Supreme Being?

How many "individual" Supreme Beings can there be at the same time?

In other words, how many Supreme Beings does it take to change a light bulb?

INFINITE... because first they have to put each other down to be declared supreme... and that is an ongoing process...

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[Vinaire]

A Supreme Being's motto:

"I'll work with you and applaud you and boost your ego as long as you all agree with me and tell me how wonderful I am."

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[CarmeloOrchards]

You are the evaluator supreme, Mark!

I took your advice and am word clearing Roger's post.

The first thing I got out of Roger's disseratation is how wrong other's are! Very telling.

.

Try word clearing "other's"

You obviously don't know what the word means. It is the possesive form of "other."

 

[Vinaire]

Try word clearing "other's"

You obviously don't know what the word means. It is the possesive form of "other."

I am just a stupid brown Hindu. Thank you for pointing out my error.

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[Vinaire]

Roger stated:

Alan W has said, “People treat their spiritual teammates the way they treat people!" Hubbard sure and hell demonstrated that!

I think many at the level of OTs (or, equivalent in Knowledgism) treat people the way they treat their spiritual teammates... If you disagree with me you will be corrected.

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[mate]

There seems to be a lot of confusion and disagreement as to the importance of identity and individuality.

I suspect that the real problem we have, is assuming that a spirit exists purely inside a body, be it in the head or the heart or the whole body. This has lead to terms such as “out of body experiences”, “remote viewing”, “exteriorisation”, “mental telepathy”, and so on. A lot of this is based upon the observation by some of a spiritual body leaving its physical body on death.

As discovered by Michael Newton, the spiritual world is contained within the physical universe, featuring space, time and individuality. He also found that it was considered the “real world” and that the physical world in which we live, is simply a “game” or a “play” of some sort in which one is undertaking a learning experience. I do realize that the skeptics among you haven’t accepted his research and this may well be your “learning experience”.

As I understand it, the non-physical medium, of which a spirit consists, extends through out the whole physical universe and this is the case for each spirit. In other words, the spirit that I am, occupies the whole of the physical universe, the spirit that you are also occupies the whole of the physical universe, indeed, each and every one of us occupies the whole of the physical universe. But for each of us, there is a concentration of our medium at some point. This is our spiritual being.

This would explain:

1. Phenomena such as “exteriorisation”, “out of body experiences”, “remote viewing”.
2. Phenomena such as “mental telepathy” which would be no more than thought sharing.
3. Having more than one concentration would allow for controlling more than one physical body.

I might add here, that in my opinion, achieving the state of self-realisation or enlightenment, would consist of having gained experiential knowledge, as distinct from intellectual knowledge, of the whole of one’s non-physical medium. So it is not the case, that one loses their identity when a state of self-realisation is achieved, it is that they have “expanded” it to the whole of the physical universe and probably more.

Just a thought.

Regards, David.

 

[Vinaire]

OUT OF BODY EXPERIENCE

In my opinion, "out of body" experience has to do with an experience of not being attached to the body. This attachment is not physical but mental.

In life, the body is assumed to be the most important part of self. This means that the attention, most of the time, is fixated on the body. Hence the attention is non-optimum. For the full significance of what I mean by "non-optimum attention," please see

ATTENTION

Now, if one looks and experiences one's body fully without thinking and resisting, one may find that the fixation is gradually diminishing. The moment one's attention is no longer fixated on the body, would be the moment of exteriorization. The body is still there. One is fully aware of it. Nothing has shifted except one's attention. It is no longer fixated on the body. And that is EXTERIORIZATION.

Is exteriorization inerpreted this way in Scientology? May be, may be not. I am not sure. This is for each one of you to look and observe for yourself.

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[CarmeloOrchards]

I am just a stupid brown Hindu. Thank you for pointing out my error.

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My Cousin Vinny!

I am Indian (partially) only feather, not dot.

 

[Vinaire]

REMOTE VIEWING

The pre-requisite of remote viewing is, of course, that one's attention is not fixated on the body. Some people are surprised to find how much of their attention had been fixated on the body, only after it is freed from such fixation.

Once unfixated from the body, the attention is free to roam about. There seems to be a coordinated system of space that precisely asoociates relative dimensions of objects and locations. I don't know how to tap into that coordinate system, but it appears that some people has the ability to tap into it.

It is like being really good with a 3D CAD system.

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[Vinaire]

My cousin Vinny!

I am Indian (partially) only feather, not dot.

Ah! cousin... of course.

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[nexus100]

There seems to be a lot of confusion and disagreement as to the importance of identity and individuality.

I suspect that the real problem we have, is assuming that a spirit exists purely inside a body, be it in the head or the heart or the whole body. This has lead to terms such as “out of body experiences”, “remote viewing”, “exteriorisation”, “mental telepathy”, and so on. A lot of this is based upon the observation by some of a spiritual body leaving its physical body on death.

As discovered by Michael Newton, the spiritual world is contained within the physical universe, featuring space, time and individuality. He also found that it was considered the “real world” and that the physical world in which we live, is simply a “game” or a “play” of some sort in which one is undertaking a learning experience. I do realize that the skeptics among you haven’t accepted his research and this may well be your “learning experience”.

As I understand it, the non-physical medium, of which a spirit consists, extends through out the whole physical universe and this is the case for each spirit. In other words, the spirit that I am, occupies the whole of the physical universe, the spirit that you are also occupies the whole of the physical universe, indeed, each and every one of us occupies the whole of the physical universe. But for each of us, there is a concentration of our medium at some point. This is our spiritual being.

This would explain:

1. Phenomena such as “exteriorisation”, “out of body experiences”, “remote viewing”.
2. Phenomena such as “mental telepathy” which would be no more than thought sharing.
3. Having more than one concentration would allow for controlling more than one physical body.

I might add here, that in my opinion, achieving the state of self-realisation or enlightenment, would consist of having gained experiential knowledge, as distinct from intellectual knowledge, of the whole of one’s non-physical medium. So it is not the case, that one loses their identity when a state of self-realisation is achieved, it is that they have “expanded” it to the whole of the physical universe and probably more.

Just a thought.

Regards, David.

The above is also my experience in terms of space. The method God (me and thee) uses to "split" is viewpoint. God is accessing space from a myriad of viewpoints. Viewpoint can look from any place in the universe and can be as large as can be imagined or as small as can be imagined. Each viewpoint is as "much" God as the viewpoint is willing to be, up to the point of becoming God entire.

The issue with viewpoint is that we each are creating space unconsciously. Becoming conscious of that creation is possible but involves seeing space that is not presently "real". And that space may contain various wavelengths that to a human, particularly, are challenging. Thus the many systems of working one's way into more and more challenging spaces.

Hubbard's idea, for better or worse, was to convince viewpoints to plunge themselves and others into spaces of his choosing. Thus he could piggy back onto their creation since they were making his space. For some reason this seemed a good idea to him. Unfortunately at some point he was no longer creating consciously as himself. His need for other creation became a true nightmare. When one stops creating, one stops existing in this place. That is the main issue with auditing as presently structured in my opinion. One can create a need for other creation. That is tough on the chooser and the chosen, my observation.

Of course it is nobody's business what anyone does with any space or anything at all ultimately. We are all God. If one wishes relief, move to a different space. If one wishes to understand, there is the universe, waiting. Purty simple.

 

[Vinaire]

MENTAL TELEPATHY

In my opinion, “remote viewing”, “exteriorisation”, “mental telepathy”, etc., are possible only when one's attention is neither fixated nor dispersed, but it is optimum. Here is the way to go about it.

LOOKING
EXPERIENCING
ATTENTION
VIEWPOINT

Mental telepathy would be an awareness of how another person is moving the dimension points of a very subtle nature. It may be more of a guestimate at first. But with practice it can improve.

But the pre-requisite is free and optimum attention. Without it mental telepathy is not possible.

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[nw2394]

But for old pros like Nick, here is the type of processing one uses with one's spiritual connections . . . .

Tried this process again - hmm - rather interesting - had sort of expected to find what I usually find - someone that wanted to leave - but no. For all this talk of "team mates" I'd only ever run into the odd one - this time quite a bunch of them showed up.

Positive suggestion? Hmm - well you can never rule that out - or maybe they like this style...

Nick

 

[Minuet #1 in G]

There seems to be a lot of confusion and disagreement as to the importance of identity and individuality.

I suspect that the real problem we have, is assuming that a spirit exists purely inside a body, be it in the head or the heart or the whole body. This has lead to terms such as “out of body experiences”, “remote viewing”, “exteriorisation”, “mental telepathy”, and so on. A lot of this is based upon the observation by some of a spiritual body leaving its physical body on death.

As discovered by Michael Newton, the spiritual world is contained within the physical universe, featuring space, time and individuality. He also found that it was considered the “real world” and that the physical world in which we live, is simply a “game” or a “play” of some sort in which one is undertaking a learning experience. I do realize that the skeptics among you haven’t accepted his research and this may well be your “learning experience”.

As I understand it, the non-physical medium, of which a spirit consists, extends through out the whole physical universe and this is the case for each spirit. In other words, the spirit that I am, occupies the whole of the physical universe, the spirit that you are also occupies the whole of the physical universe, indeed, each and every one of us occupies the whole of the physical universe. But for each of us, there is a concentration of our medium at some point. This is our spiritual being.

This would explain:

1. Phenomena such as “exteriorisation”, “out of body experiences”, “remote viewing”.
2. Phenomena such as “mental telepathy” which would be no more than thought sharing.
3. Having more than one concentration would allow for controlling more than one physical body.

I might add here, that in my opinion, achieving the state of self-realisation or enlightenment, would consist of having gained experiential knowledge, as distinct from intellectual knowledge, of the whole of one’s non-physical medium. So it is not the case, that one loses their identity when a state of self-realisation is achieved, it is that they have “expanded” it to the whole of the physical universe and probably more.

Just a thought.

Regards, David.

Something in Newton's books which is puzzling is the notion of the percentage of energy the being devotes to the current life existence. This is put generally at half or less. Ie there is a sizeable portion of the being coexisting in the spiritual realm. Some deliberately reduce this portion to much less than half for a particular learning experience. If one would become enlighened then these separations would vanish wouldnt they?
Newton's paradigm does not seem to encompass the concept of enlightenment occuring within an earthly existence. What does that do for continued incarnations?

 

[RogerB]

Tried this process again - hmm - rather interesting - had sort of expected to find what I usually find - someone that wanted to leave - but no. For all this talk of "team mates" I'd only ever run into the odd one - this time quite a bunch of them showed up.

Positive suggestion? Hmm - well you can never rule that out - or maybe they like this style...

Nick

Nick,

Respect, honor and appreciation between Beings is the way to friendship, yes?

I did not respond to your earlier report on using the process, it didn't feel right to have commented at that time . . . seemed incomplete.

As noted in an earlier reply to FoTi, the final step on the R/D is to find "what action or ability of the Spiritual Being/Team you are willing to acknowledge and appreciate."

Then, "Telepathically acknowledge and appreciate your . . . (what in essence is a recovered friend) . . . Sp. Teammate/Team."

There are a number of other processes and actions that can be applied, and as one gets into recovering or dealing with some of the deeply buried Beings, they become needed processes. But for now you guys who tried the R/D you're doing great

Rog

 

[nw2394]

I did not respond to your earlier report on using the process, it didn't feel right to have commented at that time . . . seemed incomplete.

Hmm. I can imagine why you'd say that. Possibly it is a function of the fact that I had quite a lot of hours of FPRD - but anyway a lot that I've turned up are ones following a false purpose (that someone, often me!) had given them - it seems appropriate for them to let them unburden and, if they don't spot the moment that they assumed the false purpose, to D/L. I don't know about you, but I don't have the stomach for giving them more purposes. Seems unfair - quite the opposite of friendly.

Even the most utterly loyal of team mates that I found previously - well - basically the session left me feeling "thanks mate, please consider any debt you had to me utterly paid". I just felt I had to completely let go.

Perhaps it is also a function of the fact that, certainly until fairly recently, quite a lot of what people like Alan have banged on about is words to the effect of "realise your prime dream" and such stuff. Thats all very well if you actually have such a thing. Best I've been able to come up with in terms of a prime dream or goal is something, if you obnose my actual activities in life, that I actually don't really want to be doing. But then I finally seem to have blown that - or at least reformulated it into something more positive - and what I've tunred up with then are ones that are cross that they think I'm changing my mind. It is, really, quite a shock to the system to have a huge win only to find (sonme of) your remaining case utterly pissed with you about it. Life actually gets worse - at least for a while.

So you could say that, in some respects, I am South of the starting line as far as Kn is concerned.

As noted in an earlier reply to FoTi, the final step on the R/D is to find "what action or ability of the Spiritual Being/Team you are willing to acknowledge and appreciate."

Then, "Telepathically acknowledge and appreciate your . . . (what in essence is a recovered friend) . . . Sp. Teammate/Team."

Yeah - for those that are there apparently of their own determinism - this seems totally appropriate. In a way, I didn't get to really end the last session - it was more a question of having a queue of them offering to do this that and the other.

Nick

 

[mate]

This concept of “team-mates” is very interesting. I have previously noted that a concentration in the non-physical medium of a spirit, as I see it, would be the spiritual being and that there could be other, perhaps lesser, concentrations. This would account for the phenomenon of team-mates and of course they would be in cooperation with the spiritual being, the main concentration.

Would they serve a function? Yes, indeed, they could have an important function. If Newton’s assessment is accurate, we have the spiritual being taking a back seat to the new emerging physical ego. But the emerging physical ego’s decisions and actions, could well deviate from the spiritual ego’s wants. The role of the team-mates could be to influence the emerging physical ego, to have it line up with the spiritual ego’s wants.

Just a thought.

Regards, David.

 

[Vinaire]

This concept of “team-mates” is very interesting. I have previously noted that a concentration in the non-physical medium of a spirit, as I see it, would be the spiritual being and that there could be other, perhaps lesser, concentrations. This would account for the phenomenon of team-mates and of course they would be in cooperation with the spiritual being, the main concentration.

Would they serve a function? Yes, indeed, they could have an important function. If Newton’s assessment is accurate, we have the spiritual being taking a back seat to the new emerging physical ego. But the emerging physical ego’s decisions and actions, could well deviate from the spiritual ego’s wants. The role of the team-mates could be to influence the emerging physical ego, to have it line up with the spiritual ego’s wants.

Just a thought.

Regards, David.

I am sorry to say this, David, but BTs, Clusters, and Spiritual Teammates is just more "think" in my opinion.

I believe that Dn Axioms are closer to the mark. There is random motion. And there is the effort to align motion to one's postulates.

That is all.

The rest is "gobbledygook" using Roger's term. Please see

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=377375&postcount=1104

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[Vinaire]

David, this is a direct question to you.

How do you define a being?

Please answer this question with total honesty and sincerity in the spirit of discussion. One should not be in the business of defending any "think."

We are discussing in the spirit of better understanding. If that requires changing already held ideas, I am all for it.

I am now getting familiar with NOTs, the holy grail of Scientology, so I can discuss. Please don't hold anything back from me.

I regard you to be much more intellectually honest. If you don't know the answer to my question, just plain admit it. Otherwise, try to answer it the best way you can.

Thank you,

Most sincerely,
Vin

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