How did you envision your Body Thetans?
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KnightVision
Gold Meritorious Patron
That is a classic example of intentionally blindfolding a person and then leading them blindly by manipulation. There is no good reason for it. It is a technique of a con artist.
It might be humane?????
It is humane to be honest, forthright and intellectually respectful of those that are seeking help with their inner most private thoughts and feelings.
It is not surprising that deceit is very much a part of the OT3/BT level and that this built in deceit continues right on up the next levels.
The description of BTs, written about as actual 'real entities' is the major deceit of the whole SciFi concept itself.
It's not difficult to cut through all Lcon's crap and boil this level down to a basic explanation. The only reason it has any mystery or confusion in it, including How it is 'revealed' if done by the book, is because it was intended to be so. That there may be benefits for some from doing these actions does NOT justify or explain away the deceit, fraud and unnecessary manipulation of those who partake in it.
The explanation that your post gives that one 'might blow' if forewarned just doesn't cut it. It has been my experience that Sci's who follow Lcon's drivel without taking a machete to all the weeds and overgrown (i.e. exaggerated, arbitrary noise and deceitful decoration) plants (i.e. implants) that are profuse and constant within all major Sci grade chart actions will inevitably spew out explanations about how it's 'OK' and 'Workable' for a so called 'spiritual practice' to deceive and unnecessarily manipulate a person in order to make results possible in a person's pursuit of 'spiritual freedom'.
Yuck. The stench of it is almost to much to take.
So what is the basic, simple, honest and 'stripped down' naked truth of what is occurring on (the simple 'no bullshit' explanation of the actual, helpful and beneficial aspect part of) The 'OT' levels?
One is letting go and releasing the adverse cause and symptoms of their own self created, limiting and destructive thoughts, imaginings and beliefs.
That's it. Everything else is bullshit decoration and deceitful manipulation.
There is NO NEED whatsoever to label either the cause and or the symptoms of any self created phenomena As being connected to any 'BT's' or 'Alien Beings'. Doing so is simply deceitful and manipulative.
This, and umpteen other similar examples, is the why behind why so many prior 'believers' in Lcon's 'Tech', i.e. SCIENTOLOGY... have come to their rightful, honest conclusion that Scientology is BULLSHIT. It's not, IMO, because they don't recognize any benefits to be gained...
It's because their Integrity will not accept that beneficial gain, alloyed with deceit and harmful manipulation, is worthy of being considered and or agreed with as a bona-fide honestly offered route to 'spiritual freedom'.
For many, Spirituality is an innermost private sanctuary that respects a requirement of self honesty, which requires by default, the willingness to face and decipher dishonesty and deceit in the name of 'Spiritual Progress'.
For many, the sensible route, is to reaffirm the benefits they gained as the consequence of their diligent efforts and self propelled power; while labeling Scientology for the deceitful con that it demonstrably is.
You spoke in an earlier post:
2.
Amen. If 'common sense' had been built into Scientology in the first place... methinks that the gains would have been able to exist WITHOUT so very precious many having to resort out all the Lcon bullshit-o-la from the mix.
Ron Paul
Patron
You can run dianetics on them if you've a mind too, or any other scientology process come to that. However, as you imply Paul, that's not an "official" part of Co$ practice.
As to what do they look like? More or less like any other thetan.
Mark A. Baker
Body Thetans don't have deep pockets, after all.
Challenge
Silver Meritorious Patron
A BT with OT3 in restim would be a BT with Inc 2 or Inc 1 affecting it. If the Auditor (you) cannot find a BT reading on OT3, then there are no BTs with OT3 in restim. It is really no different than an auditor not having an ARCX in restim. If ARCx reads, or auditor feels the ARCX then he has an ARCX in restim
I don't get your question. It looks veddy simple to me.
I don't know where you got your OT3 pack, or from what year. When I did OT3 in 1969 the EP was no more BTs. It was painfully obvious to us completions after a time that there WERE BTs left. The EP was changed at some point to allow for auditing more BTs.
I am not endorsing it. I did the "oldOT4", and it was 'bout my fave level. Had nothing to do with BTs.
I was auditing AOs HGC when I read the "new OT4" and saw that it was a drug R/d addressing BTs. I thought "omg, I hate this". Then I was c/s'd to use the impact list which was a NOTs series issue, and it was clear to me that a long run on the BT phenom was in store for Scn'ists on the upper levels, and that the "old OT4" was shelved. I imagine that it has been shoved up the Bridge and relabelled as a new OT level.
Challenge
Gadfly
Crusader
What really got me to start on the Bridge at all, way back when I first got involved in the early 1970s, is when I read the PROMO for OLD OT 4, 5 and 6. I still have the original promo pieces!!!!! Route 1 stuff! Getting to know the MEST universe as a thetan exterior. Breaking through the considerations that hold the MEST universe in place for you! THOSE marketing buttons sure worked on me! :confused2:
But then, they took all of that away! Why? Because nobody was getting the gains that were promoted in the promo! Of course, LRH always explained THAT phenonema as being due to the "horrible state of thetans here on Earth" who simply required MORE Bridge to sort out their sorry state! (Purif added, Happiness R/D added, CCRD added, more and more auditing of BTs added, etc etc etc ad nauseum)
Challenge
Silver Meritorious Patron
With all due respect, I imagine that the earthquake which has killed thousands of people and injured thousands more, came as a shock to those thousands. Seems to me there was mucho impact in that incident.
The impact list has many items thatcould form clusters. Not just electronic incidents, but most any incident that acted as "shock", or that impacted the person with force.
That 7.0 earhquake was damned forceful to those who experienced it, IMO.
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Gadfly
Crusader
Yes, Dulloldfart straightened that out for me earlier in the thread (before this) in response to the same thing you quoted. I stood corrected!
As I had said, I hadn't read any of this stuff in MANY years. I was talking out my ass, so to speak. :confused2:
Yep, with the reference DOF posted, just about ANYTHING could form a "cluster".
Challenge
Silver Meritorious Patron
Reasonable
Silver Meritorious Patron
Dulloldfart
Squirrel Extraordinaire
Last time I saw a "current" official CofS OT III pack was around 1995. The EP then in it was no BTs left. The same issues are in the Wikileaks OT III issues online, in "Tech Volume XIV". However, there are a couple of issues from 1978 like the HCOB "Flying Ruds at OT III and above" which talk about checking ownership on any charge found and blowing BTs, so from that you *ought to* get the idea that there will be more of the critters to deal with after OT III completion. I say "ought to" because from memory most OT3 students seemed to get the idea that the EP was no BTs left, despite that issue, and we (tech staff) didn't disabuse them of that idea for the reason I mentioned earlier — promote the idea that they'll never find them all on OT3 and there will be a tendency to blow (from the level, not Scn) when the going gets tough. The tech staff where I was did actually care about the public and wanted them to get the most they could from Solo-OT3.
The procedure for the level is to look over the body or one's immediate space and "locate by meter read or area of pressure a BT or cluster" (I think that's the exact wording). Then (basically) to run what you find on Inc 2, then fix things from there, like it doesn't run as "it's not an Incident 2 but another incident of a different date". I suppose you could consider that last situation as "not having OT3 in restim", but looking for BTs with any condition attached is not the general procedure (except when apparently freewheeling and you need to find those individual BTs that are freewheeling), or when handling things like out-ruds and after checking ownership.
Paul
Species8472
Patron with Honors
Reading the story for the first time - it seemed like plain BS. I thought it was designed to create a feeling of overwhelm, but I'd read so much Sci-Fi it just seemed mundane. I mis-read it originally and didn't get the H-bomb bit (Hubbard's bad handwriting) till later - I'd also originally imagined the volcanos as like a giant mountain cone - just a convenient high place to dump these people from spaceships - not as erupting - Then later I noticed the erupting volcano on the cover of dianetics and changed my method. So I've probably run it all wrong.
I Didn't envision them BTs at all - they would be invisible - they are just a point source of pictures. (but on the subject of envisioning invisible things: electrons I envision as multi-coloured blue/green/purple depending on the shape of their schrodinger wave form so its not a lack of imagination here)
You locate them as a feeling or sensation and drive yourself nuts trying to get a response from them - some kind of ack that they really were there - later I gave up on this and just mocked up the OTIII fairy tale at the body location until the sensation changed in some way - which kind of prompted an FN by sheer relief of having something happen.
After a couple of weeks it became such a grind, and coupled with the constant stress of being at Flag, being hunted by IAS, SuperPower,Freewinds, - then ethics, review - they really know how to wind up the stress levels on a person- slowly at first (despite being mid OTIII in the no-interference zone), until when you are finally in session in your room, its peaceful enough to just get on with it you don;t question the fairy tale any more - Running the imaginary fairy tale is escape from the mega-stresses of life outside that locked door!
Yaaahfhahfaha - manic laugh - I'm still highly charged on the subject,
I Didn't envision them BTs at all - they would be invisible - they are just a point source of pictures. (but on the subject of envisioning invisible things: electrons I envision as multi-coloured blue/green/purple depending on the shape of their schrodinger wave form so its not a lack of imagination here)
You locate them as a feeling or sensation and drive yourself nuts trying to get a response from them - some kind of ack that they really were there - later I gave up on this and just mocked up the OTIII fairy tale at the body location until the sensation changed in some way - which kind of prompted an FN by sheer relief of having something happen.
After a couple of weeks it became such a grind, and coupled with the constant stress of being at Flag, being hunted by IAS, SuperPower,Freewinds, - then ethics, review - they really know how to wind up the stress levels on a person- slowly at first (despite being mid OTIII in the no-interference zone), until when you are finally in session in your room, its peaceful enough to just get on with it you don;t question the fairy tale any more - Running the imaginary fairy tale is escape from the mega-stresses of life outside that locked door!
Yaaahfhahfaha - manic laugh - I'm still highly charged on the subject,
Challenge
Silver Meritorious Patron
Answers above in BOLD.
Many Scientologists get a big button on OT III, because of the way it is presented. Hubbard promotes it as the BIG REASON WHY this entire sector of the galaxy has been in a state of collapse for the last 75 million years! It is pumped up as the entire reason behind the "4th dynamic engram" (whatever THAT is). The scenario of OT III is explained as the primary reason WHY CHAOS CAN AND WILL CONTINUE FOREVER, unless this gets addressed and handled. It is promoted as the sole reason why NO SOLUTION can or will bite along 3rd or 4th dynanic lines.
So sure, it gets to be a big button for people in Scientology. Obviously the Church PR machinery did a GOD job on you, if you have so much attention on it.
Plus there was all the drama added in about how Hubbard broke or almost broke his back "researching and figuring out the level". And how any person who contacts it, before they are made ready through proper set-ups (earlier Bridge steps), will "freewheel" through the implant and DIE of pneumonia! Not many have died!!!!!
There is just so much HYPE attached to OT III. That is a contrived and created reality. To a large degree it is of the nature of a phantasm. People buy into the hype and illusion.
I won't include my usual Mystic Disclaimer here, because most likely whatever Mystic might say about phantasms and illusions in regards to OT III would hit the nail right on the head!
I agree with your post.
I will say that the theory of, and the auditing of,OT3 gave me some insight to the fact (for me) that there are other lifeforms around us, perhaps other unseen dimensions that could be explored if one accepted the theory of OT3 phenomena. Other lifeforms that may (or may not) be effecting us in present time that we are unaware of.
I am not a writer. I have no elegance nor eloquence with written communication. Non-verbal communication is dear to me. What I post here hardly represents my true perception.
Since I have left COS, my appreciation for the BT/CL phenom has proved more interesting, and has led me to doors that were previously unopened ( for me). Those doors lead me to greater understanding of "life" beyond this one.
Just sayin
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Gadfly
Crusader
For me the apparent "physical reality" is only the tip of the iceberg of possible human experience and involvement. And, a VERY SMALL tip it is! The majority of what is far often more "real" to me involves what is invisible to the normal five senses, that being, what lies submerged below the ocean line of the metaphorical iceberg.
I had played with and explored various "invisible dimensions" before Scientology, so it wasn't really any big deal to me. I had already had experiences contacting and exorcising "ghosts" before OT III.
If the concept of a thetan, as a static, is legitimate on some level, and actually describes something of the true nature of what we are, where this static CREATES realities and experience by postulates and agreement, THEN ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE, and this physical shared-reality may simply be one of a near infinite range of actual places (shared realities) one can "go" and interact with other like-minded beings.
And, I don't mean "imaginary places", but places where you can find yourself that exist as "solid" and as "objectively" as THIS reality seems to be, but along VERY different lines of considerations and agreements. Though, the experience of it or them would be nothing like "this" shared MEST reality. It seems to me that the range of experience possible in these "other shared realities" could span the gamet from being experienced as completely "objective" (out there and separate from yourself) to entirely "subjective".
Personally, it makes total sense to me. :confused2:
But as always, I could be wrong.
nexus100
Gold Meritorious Patron
Everything here is a created reality-by you. If you want to believe in OT 3 you will make it real. Because it IS real-to you. There's nothing wrong with that. We all make what is real to us, real.
To the degree one believes in that operation as fact instead of a created reality box to look outside, of, one will stay inside. Nothing wrong with that either. But at some point one gets bored with looking at the sides of that box and will decide to look larger or smaller for new points of interest to "discover" by making them "real".
A factually based reality tends to hold one inside the box one is in and make the next likely interest a "smaller" version. Understanding everything as creation tends to open one to all realities.
So a practical method of dealing with fact or belief of any kind, is, let it go. One begins to step outside that box. Maybe not comfortably, but comfort isn't always on the program.
To the degree one believes in that operation as fact instead of a created reality box to look outside, of, one will stay inside. Nothing wrong with that either. But at some point one gets bored with looking at the sides of that box and will decide to look larger or smaller for new points of interest to "discover" by making them "real".
A factually based reality tends to hold one inside the box one is in and make the next likely interest a "smaller" version. Understanding everything as creation tends to open one to all realities.
So a practical method of dealing with fact or belief of any kind, is, let it go. One begins to step outside that box. Maybe not comfortably, but comfort isn't always on the program.
Gadfly
Crusader
I agree completely. But I have always had trouble with all of this from one angle.
Sure, on a MENTAL level, not a PHYSICAL level, we can and do accept, adopt and believe ideas, and they affect us. We SEE what we mock up as "real". I think we are on the same page here. Yes? No?
I do have the notion that everything for me, and for every other point of consciousness, is a CREATED reality.
But, how does one make sense of it on the purely physical level? I do suspect that the above applies exactly to the physical universe too. Ultimately, you are "here" and you experience the physical reality as "objective" because you again have created it that way.
But, far different than the mental realm, this mock up is SHARED and "created" by MANY MANY creative entities. Largely, what goes on in your "mind" is "yours".
Sure, one can change beliefs about all sorts of things, and adopt new beliefs, expand the box, and see and experience differently, but for the most part, the "playing field " remains the same. Oh, you might have different ideas and notions about it, but for all practical purposes IT hasn't changed. Again, it seems to me that for people on Earth at this point of human evolution (if there is such a thing), all changes occur on the "mental plane".
Most people can learn to change ideas, adopt larger perspectives, and create real changes in life, along the lines of health, success, happiness, and love. But, no matter what, for the most part, those effects have a finite radius around you, your body, your mind.
I am curious Nexie how you view and explain the shared physical reality aspect of experience. I don't have the view that we are each "the only one" (as infers Crowley), and that everyone else is a figment of my imagination. I more have the idea that there are MANY MANY other viewpoints, just like me, but looking out from a different place and with a different perspective.
So, as far as the MEST universe goes, it IS unchangeable for most people. One can let go of all beliefs, adopt all sorts of new beliefs, BUT in the end, it doesn't change. There is something different about it. I do agree that probably, in the end, THAT phenomena and experience of the "objective" universe, is based on some other set of "deeper" considerations that one holds about that range of experience.
In the end, I agree with Buddhist notion of the "endless cycle of birth and death". Nobody is going to change THAT operation, not by any mental trickery. The ONLY solution, on that level, is to jump off of the hamster wheel entirely. You can change it for YOU, by no longer participating, but it will surely continue to exist, as "objective", for the rest of the many entities still actively creating it.
I do currently have the opinion that there are MANY other hamster wheels one can play on and with, involving numerous other thetans, involved in similar activities of co-creating shared realities that to some degree "appear" as objective.
To fail to make the distinction seems somewhat of an error.
For instance there might be an "astral" plane, and one might be able to exist there and participate there through an "astral body". Again, yes, it is a mockup, BUT also, it is based on a specific set of agreements, agreements held by MANY beings, and if you fail to buy into the agreements, you will not be able to find yourself there and participate. And once there, of course, there will be a very WIDE range of possible experiences based on WHAT and HOW you create WITHIN the parameters of THAT shared (agreed upon) reality.
I think the answer lies in "agreement". When more and more beings AGREE on the same set or pattern of considerations, the "reality" takes on an appearance of "objectivity". I suppose that the notion of "dimensions" exists along the same lines.
Traveling between dimensions would probably involve "tuning" into and out of different "patterns and sets of agreements". Agreements (postulates, considerations) being understood as the pattern by and through which one creates.
And also, there is a huge panorama, ranging from total subjectivity to total objectivity, where on the one end (subjectivity) ONLY you agree on and experience the creation, and on the other end (objectivity) EVERYBODY agrees on and experiences (largely in the same way) the creation. And between the two there are infinite possibilities combining some aspect of both.
It makes sense to me. As always, I could be wrong.
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nexus100
Gold Meritorious Patron
I'd say that as one continues the operation of understanding, of moving from box to box, the layout and one's situation in it get more plain. I sure don't claim to understand everything but all of the above dichotomies settle out into a reasonable pattern that fit nicely into human logic.
In brief the main issue is we are God entire and a "piece" of God limiited by one viewpoint capability. So we each can see and know anything, just not all at once as God apparently does. Since this is a created place every reality is as real as one creates it to be. No reality, shared by however many, is any more real than any other. They are all created by God and every individual aspect of God is as valid as any other. Which means every reality "is". It exists no more or less than any other.
If one wishes to understand more, therefore, don't believe anything is absolute fact. Simply know what is real, accept that it is real only insofar as one is creating it and be willing to understand more. One sees more of the game, gets more persepctive, sees more of the game, gets more perpsective, and so on. Trying to find "truth" is a lost cause. The only truth is we are God, looking into this place. All else is invention. My opinion.
In brief the main issue is we are God entire and a "piece" of God limiited by one viewpoint capability. So we each can see and know anything, just not all at once as God apparently does. Since this is a created place every reality is as real as one creates it to be. No reality, shared by however many, is any more real than any other. They are all created by God and every individual aspect of God is as valid as any other. Which means every reality "is". It exists no more or less than any other.
If one wishes to understand more, therefore, don't believe anything is absolute fact. Simply know what is real, accept that it is real only insofar as one is creating it and be willing to understand more. One sees more of the game, gets more persepctive, sees more of the game, gets more perpsective, and so on. Trying to find "truth" is a lost cause. The only truth is we are God, looking into this place. All else is invention. My opinion.
Mockingbird6
Patron with Honors
Further and further
Okay, some people on this board (Mystic, you up for it?) are going to call me crazy, hallucinating, and some (OSA, you up for it?) and going to be pissed at me, but here's my latest thoughts on this.
It occurred to me a few days ago that if a BT was stuck to me for eons, that someday, with a nice trip to the mountains, relaxing and looking at the view, this BT would just unrestimulate, wake up and take off. Haven't you ever had a nice vacation where you suddenly "woke up" to some situation and changed your mind about it?
So then I thought, why would anyone still be stuck after so much time?
And then I saw a gridwork around me at fairly close distance, a few feet away from the body maybe, of flat electronic lines, looking almost like the latitudes and longitudes on a map of the world. These were charged up, and had tremendous "sticking" power at the intersections of the lines, where any being could easily get trapped.
Now I accepted that I had done this to myself. But the next question was, WHY would I have done this to myself?
I then realized that somewhere along the ages I made the choice to use the power of other thetans to amplify my own power. (That's a confession, so don't invalidate that part, thank you very much.)
Well, when you try a trick like that, you get exactly what you deserve. So my lesson here is that I am not going to be that stupid again.
And yes, the apparatus did disintegrate when I had that realization.
There ya go, have a field day with me, Mystic, I stand ready for the slings and arrows.
And OSA, I ask you further, why is it not the EP of OT8 to take full responsibility for what one has done to create the situation? Seems like that could be done in a couple of intensives and all the BTs would be released at once. Oops, there I go thinking again...
Okay, some people on this board (Mystic, you up for it?) are going to call me crazy, hallucinating, and some (OSA, you up for it?) and going to be pissed at me, but here's my latest thoughts on this.
It occurred to me a few days ago that if a BT was stuck to me for eons, that someday, with a nice trip to the mountains, relaxing and looking at the view, this BT would just unrestimulate, wake up and take off. Haven't you ever had a nice vacation where you suddenly "woke up" to some situation and changed your mind about it?
So then I thought, why would anyone still be stuck after so much time?
And then I saw a gridwork around me at fairly close distance, a few feet away from the body maybe, of flat electronic lines, looking almost like the latitudes and longitudes on a map of the world. These were charged up, and had tremendous "sticking" power at the intersections of the lines, where any being could easily get trapped.
Now I accepted that I had done this to myself. But the next question was, WHY would I have done this to myself?
I then realized that somewhere along the ages I made the choice to use the power of other thetans to amplify my own power. (That's a confession, so don't invalidate that part, thank you very much.)
Well, when you try a trick like that, you get exactly what you deserve. So my lesson here is that I am not going to be that stupid again.
And yes, the apparatus did disintegrate when I had that realization.
There ya go, have a field day with me, Mystic, I stand ready for the slings and arrows.
And OSA, I ask you further, why is it not the EP of OT8 to take full responsibility for what one has done to create the situation? Seems like that could be done in a couple of intensives and all the BTs would be released at once. Oops, there I go thinking again...
FinallyFree
Gold Meritorious Patron
Thank you Gadfly, Dulloldfart and Freethinker, I very much appreciate all of your posts. I feel like I have a better understanding of that.
Yes, the scientology PR on OT III really did get me. I only thought of clear as a stepping stone to OT III.
I was thinking the same thing as Freethinker: the theory of OT III completely contradicts what you learn in – oh what were they called? Where you learn “life is a static” and that time is a lie and all that shit
(there was an ALL PAC Base study order from DM for ALL people connected to income lines, there I was a baby scientology Class V org staff member with nothing but the BSM under my belt and do you know – I did FAR better at studding the scientology axioms? The check out was not a standard scientology study check out – I was told it was “tougher than a star rate” but there was no name given to this squirrel checkout DM ordered. But I will tell you, I was up against S.O. members all crammed into one of offices located in the new CLO building and it was just a little intimidating to be surrounded by all these S.O. members including with some gold bars on their shoulder. It was also a little embarrassing knowing that with as little as I knew I was proceeding far better than any of the old salts from the S.O. orgs). Alas…. I am rambling….. another thing to trigger my staff memories…..
So, just looking for confirmation from those who were more trained and/or processed than I was - of what I am already thinking – doesn’t the scientology axioms completely contradict the information in OT III?
Yes, the scientology PR on OT III really did get me. I only thought of clear as a stepping stone to OT III.
I was thinking the same thing as Freethinker: the theory of OT III completely contradicts what you learn in – oh what were they called? Where you learn “life is a static” and that time is a lie and all that shit
(there was an ALL PAC Base study order from DM for ALL people connected to income lines, there I was a baby scientology Class V org staff member with nothing but the BSM under my belt and do you know – I did FAR better at studding the scientology axioms? The check out was not a standard scientology study check out – I was told it was “tougher than a star rate” but there was no name given to this squirrel checkout DM ordered. But I will tell you, I was up against S.O. members all crammed into one of offices located in the new CLO building and it was just a little intimidating to be surrounded by all these S.O. members including with some gold bars on their shoulder. It was also a little embarrassing knowing that with as little as I knew I was proceeding far better than any of the old salts from the S.O. orgs). Alas…. I am rambling….. another thing to trigger my staff memories…..
So, just looking for confirmation from those who were more trained and/or processed than I was - of what I am already thinking – doesn’t the scientology axioms completely contradict the information in OT III?
FinallyFree
Gold Meritorious Patron
oh! So are OT 5,6 and 7 the "solo NOTS"?
TalleyWhacker
Patron with Honors
I did not know what to think when I read the III materials for the first time. I thought LRH had lost his mind. I thought "Oh, bullshit."
But then I thought about the things I had learned in Scn that were very useful and true and thought, "Well, I'll give a try."
Then when you're auditing on III, and you need to be competent, and the needle bangs over and hits the pin and you know damn well it wasn't your thought cause you didn't have one, that's when you sit up straight and go, "HHMMMMMMM....."
However, the end results of OT 3 as far as I was concerned was so-so.
From there, I went onto OT7 EP.
There are many, many times that what I got from that (projecting intention) comes in very useful. I liked that level very much but I've always been an admirer of "punching" things through--making them go right.
I finished OT5 over a period of years.
On that level I addressed stuff that I had wanted addressed since my first day in SCN.
Those changes were and are permanent. Still are. I'm satisifed but the promo is waaaay overstated. They ought to just say, "We have some things here that if you do them, you'll be a better person."
If I were to pick anyone who has posted on this, I would agree with Challenge the most of anyone.
But you all have valid points and I always love the humor.
I'm not trying to make anyone feel sorry for me when I say this or to knock some on this board but I think most people, and I'm referring to the people in our Western Civilization that tried Scn, were never really in "need".
They have no personal, up close experience with personal insanity and what it can do to you. As a child and teenager I was very abused. Whipped, electric shocked to be awoken and around a tremendous amount of cruelty in subsequent corrective facilites.
Honestly, if one considered my life, I should have been an axe murderer and truly, that's where I was headed. I was what you'd call a very "solid guy".
Now, I'm a very happy and satisfied person. A big help to those around me and I have a lot of love and respect for my fellows.
Now, could have have gotten all that from something else?
Sure, maybe. Don't know, I didn't do anything else. Althought I do read readings from many differnent scholars and enjoy it very much.
I never did OT6 & 7 because I could "feel" what they did to people who were on the level--insert a periscope up your ass for 5 or more years.
No thanks. I will never let anyone have that amount of control over me.
With the above results--what do I think about the subject of Scn, LRH and the C of $?
I think the subject of Scn has many good things in it. It also has some bullshit in it. It's like anything else. I do feel like the strict adherants of any religion are dangerous idiots. They have lost their ability to think for themselves.
LRH was exceptional in many ways and a complete fraud in others. I also think I'm an intelligent enough person to sort through the wheat from the chaff.
The C of $ is a corrupt bunch of assholes that need to be stopped. To say that they're opportunists would be too kind.
They need to prosecuted for their crimes, both past and ongoing, for their crimes against humanity.
I didn't mean to make this post so personal or to get off track but there was nothing to add to the subject matter of upper level stuiff except I felt I needed to say what I summarized myself from doing what I did.
Hope that helps.
But then I thought about the things I had learned in Scn that were very useful and true and thought, "Well, I'll give a try."
Then when you're auditing on III, and you need to be competent, and the needle bangs over and hits the pin and you know damn well it wasn't your thought cause you didn't have one, that's when you sit up straight and go, "HHMMMMMMM....."
However, the end results of OT 3 as far as I was concerned was so-so.
From there, I went onto OT7 EP.
There are many, many times that what I got from that (projecting intention) comes in very useful. I liked that level very much but I've always been an admirer of "punching" things through--making them go right.
I finished OT5 over a period of years.
On that level I addressed stuff that I had wanted addressed since my first day in SCN.
Those changes were and are permanent. Still are. I'm satisifed but the promo is waaaay overstated. They ought to just say, "We have some things here that if you do them, you'll be a better person."
If I were to pick anyone who has posted on this, I would agree with Challenge the most of anyone.
But you all have valid points and I always love the humor.
I'm not trying to make anyone feel sorry for me when I say this or to knock some on this board but I think most people, and I'm referring to the people in our Western Civilization that tried Scn, were never really in "need".
They have no personal, up close experience with personal insanity and what it can do to you. As a child and teenager I was very abused. Whipped, electric shocked to be awoken and around a tremendous amount of cruelty in subsequent corrective facilites.
Honestly, if one considered my life, I should have been an axe murderer and truly, that's where I was headed. I was what you'd call a very "solid guy".
Now, I'm a very happy and satisfied person. A big help to those around me and I have a lot of love and respect for my fellows.
Now, could have have gotten all that from something else?
Sure, maybe. Don't know, I didn't do anything else. Althought I do read readings from many differnent scholars and enjoy it very much.
I never did OT6 & 7 because I could "feel" what they did to people who were on the level--insert a periscope up your ass for 5 or more years.
No thanks. I will never let anyone have that amount of control over me.
With the above results--what do I think about the subject of Scn, LRH and the C of $?
I think the subject of Scn has many good things in it. It also has some bullshit in it. It's like anything else. I do feel like the strict adherants of any religion are dangerous idiots. They have lost their ability to think for themselves.
LRH was exceptional in many ways and a complete fraud in others. I also think I'm an intelligent enough person to sort through the wheat from the chaff.
The C of $ is a corrupt bunch of assholes that need to be stopped. To say that they're opportunists would be too kind.
They need to prosecuted for their crimes, both past and ongoing, for their crimes against humanity.
I didn't mean to make this post so personal or to get off track but there was nothing to add to the subject matter of upper level stuiff except I felt I needed to say what I summarized myself from doing what I did.
Hope that helps.
