How do you explain past lives?

Joseph

Patron
Scientologists are convinced that they lived past lives and claim to even remember who they were and what they did, so what happens when people leave the Church (leave without joining freezone) do they continue to believe in past lives or do they believe they were brainwashed by the auditor?

I can understand how you would conclude that Scientology is false and that everything you were told was a lie, but how could you be so convinced that you lived before and even remember it, and then suddenly deny it?
 

Power Change

Patron Meritorious
Scientologists are convinced that they lived past lives and claim to even remember who they were and what they did, so what happens when people leave the Church (leave without joining freezone) do they continue to believe in past lives or do they believe they were brainwashed by the auditor?

I can understand how you would conclude that Scientology is false and that everything you were told was a lie, but how could you be so convinced that you lived before and even remember it, and then suddenly deny it?

Good question Joesph.

I didnt know for sure if I had a past life before -kind of believed in it -right before I went into scn...but was so eager to find out and remember....

then supposedly I remembered all these past lives-none of which felt remotely real--seriously..I had no attachment to what I was seeing --no familiarity---no 'oh wow now I remember'. For me it was reporting pictures that only served to disorient me, make me feel bad, and nearly cave me in. I struggled with this the whole time in lots and lots of auditing....OMG---chain after chain of crap that not once made me feel better....I could not understand why I wasn't feeling relief or a win from any of it. That is because there was nothing real about it. It was that place that scn auditing processes can take you...a dark bad place in your subconscious that has the ability to make up all kinds of stories.

Anyway-left scn....read other philosophies, came to the conclusion that I do still believe in past lives, but that I did not contact a single one in all that auditing.

I prefer to believe and it helps me to believe that I am here to live and learn and that 'in between lives', I will know again my whole history of lives in a safe place, and then I will forget again for the next life-and for a damn good reason!

So thats my 2 cents. Basically I went back to believing , sensing, knowing, ..that this isnt it all there is.
 

thetanic

Gold Meritorious Patron
Scientologists are convinced that they lived past lives and claim to even remember who they were and what they did, so what happens when people leave the Church (leave without joining freezone) do they continue to believe in past lives or do they believe they were brainwashed by the auditor?

All over the map, really.
 

gomorrhan

Gold Meritorious Patron
Good question Joesph.

I didnt know for sure if I had a past life before -kind of believed in it -right before I went into scn...but was so eager to find out and remember....

then supposedly I remembered all these past lives-none of which felt remotely real--seriously..I had no attachment to what I was seeing --no familiarity---no 'oh wow now I remember'. For me it was reporting pictures that only served to disorient me, make me feel bad, and nearly cave me in. I struggled with this the whole time in lots and lots of auditing....OMG---chain after chain of crap that not once made me feel better....I could not understand why I wasn't feeling relief or a win from any of it. That is because there was nothing real about it. It was that place that scn auditing processes can take you...a dark bad place in your subconscious that has the ability to make up all kinds of stories.

Anyway-left scn....read other philosophies, came to the conclusion that I do still believe in past lives, but that I did not contact a single one in all that auditing.

I prefer to believe and it helps me to believe that I am here to live and learn and that 'in between lives', I will know again my whole history of lives in a safe place, and then I will forget again for the next life-and for a damn good reason!

So thats my 2 cents. Basically I went back to believing , sensing, knowing, ..that this isnt it all there is.

I think past lives are fantasies created in present time, almost like dreams, trying to come up with symbolic representations that would explain a current attitude.

I think if both people are aware that it isn't about what is real, it's about chasing down a feeling to the place where you are generating it in your mind. That place probably has nothing to do with reality, and as you confront that, it can help to realize where you really are, and how you deviate from confronting reality, and hopefully change that.
 

Joseph

Patron
And what about "being behind your head", what the hell does that mean? Can you actually see your body from behind your head?

What is the experience like and how do you explain it now that you left the Church?
 

klidov

Silver Meritorious Patron
And what about "being behind your head", what the hell does that mean? Can you actually see your body from behind your head?

What is the experience like and how do you explain it now that you left the Church?


Why do you ask, Joseph?

Many people (like myself) that have never been a $ci believe in many lifetimes.

(And Gomorran, and I will have to agree to disagree on this one :yes: )
 
I think past lives are fantasies created in present time, almost like dreams, trying to come up with symbolic representations that would explain a current attitude.


Megatons of delusion gone in one simple sentence. Megatons of "havingness"
processes now needed.
 

SchwimmelPuckel

Genuine Meatball
Another question would be: Are past lives desireable?

Total recall.. Whole Track Recall.. Scientologists believe they can 'gain' this ability...

When all their overts and withholds have been pulled.. And then all their engrams and implants cleared.. And then all their indeterminable numbers of Body Thetans needs to be 'audited'.. And they have to stop comitting Present Time Overts too of course. (And it's AMAZING what constitutes an overt these days!)

However.. Whole Track Recall means recalling your past lives.. It doesn't mean vaguely remebering something or other about having been Baron Von Münchausen.. It means really recalling.. Educations, languages, experience... Hubbard has explained this several times.

(Erh.. I think the cult now says it does mean vaguely. They backed down a bit on the claims.. We have to ask ourselves if 'vaguely' is worth our money and time?)

Whole Track Recall is really 'Living forever'.. Just that we need to accept that the body dies now and then. No big deal as we are reborn. We can even choose ourselves by whom we are to be reborn! Indeed Hubbard envisions that we don't need to 'forget' past lives when born again.. A scientologists learns what to do in the 'between lives area', and is born with his Whole Track Recall intact.

You'll know when your newborn baby 'sloshes' wetly out of his mother, and immediatly remarks: "Ha! - I just evaded a gawdawful crapload of tax debts! - Damn! - I need a smoke and a cup of coffee!"

And living forever might be boring... Indeed scientology scripture seems to indicate that it's much better to waft about amongst the galaxies as a dimensionless point..

Doing what?

:wiggle:
 

Feral

Rogue male
Right Joey,

I've supposedly been exterior many times, and I have felt it was so. I have never been 3' back of my head with visio. Either has any one else that I know.

I have been exterior like the air is exterior to a balloon, too big to be contained but I was still viewing the world from the balloon. I suspect 'ext' is more like that and less like being separate from your body.

Hubbard fooled us into thinking we were trapped in our bodies, you are no more trapped in your body than you are trapped in a marriage or a job.

I am certain we have all been around for a very long time but as man is a complex composite I tend not to believe anyone who says they were Napoleon Bonaparte (unless it is Dave the dwarf).:yes:
 
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Right Joey,

I've supposedly been exterior many times, and I have felt it was so. I have never been 3' back of my head with visio. Either has any one else that I know.

I have been exterior like the air is exterior to a balloon, too big to be contained but I was still viewing the world from the boat. I suspect 'ext' is more like that and less like being separate from your body.

Hubbard fooled us into thinking we were trapped in our bodies, you are no more trapped in your body than you are trapped in a marriage or a job.

I am certain we have all been around for a very long time but as man is a complex composite I tend not to believe anyone who says they were Napoleon Bonaparte (unless it is Dave the dwarf).:yes:

Hi and thanks for this new thread.
It is I fell a very important one.
Since it can lead to spirituality as well as a better understanding of what is or may be the self.
If " properly " understood it can lead to help spiritually others as well.
true communication or good communication is essential to open those doors.which lead to one past
In Scientology tech, procedure supplanted the above very often.
and because of unreal past lives experiences. the PC was not interested in thosse items.
Have you being run on drugs?
were you really truly interested ruining that or you had other interest not being run?
big error, big mistake.
who made the bridge .That was his bridge not yours.
look at his( Rom) his life and what he wanted and experience in his live.drugs, lust and the desire for Power......
lets keep talking
:happydance: :happydance: :happydance:
original angel
 

nexus100

Gold Meritorious Patron
What leads in the direction of understanding, knowledge, certainty is in my opinion useful for one's spiritual path. Information that one can't assimilate as knowledge is no better than reading a comic book or going to a dull movie.

Knowledge, understanding, and certainty are attainable. In fact we all have them right now! What may be is that MORE knowledge, understanding and certainty are available. And whether or not there is a pot at the end of the rainbow called freedom, an increase in the above can be worth looking for in my opinion.


But that is up to each individual on his own path.
 
What leads in the direction of understanding, knowledge, certainty is in my opinion useful for one's spiritual path. Information that one can't assimilate as knowledge is no better than reading a comic book or going to a dull movie.

Knowledge, understanding, and certainty are attainable. In fact we all have them right now! What may be is that MORE knowledge, understanding and certainty are available. And whether or not there is a pot at the end of the rainbow called freedom, an increase in the above can be worth looking for in my opinion.


But that is up to each individual on his own path.
Hi nexus I agree some what with you Idea of freedom.
the problem is that we all are in this together.
and because of the above what I do will affect you and others as much as what you do will affect me as well as others.
so you see my ultimate freedom is connected with yours as well as others.
and to go to higher levels we need to solve first that are the causes which keep us pin down in to reactiveness.
that I fell is the important quest....
love
original angel
 

nexus100

Gold Meritorious Patron
Hi nexus I agree some what with you Idea of freedom.
the problem is that we all are in this together.
and because of the above what I do will affect you and others as much as what you do will affect me as well as others.
so you see my ultimate freedom is connected with yours as well as others.
and to go to higher levels we need to solve first that are the causes which keep us pin down in to reactiveness.
that I fell is the important quest....
love
original angel

I think the idea our fates are tied is incorrect. One can operate to understand oneself without having to see others do so. To continue on that path is Hubbardian in my opinion.

Good luck angel whoever you are.
 

Power Change

Patron Meritorious
I think the idea our fates are tied is incorrect. One can operate to understand oneself without having to see others do so. To continue on that path is Hubbardian in my opinion.

You took the words right out of my mouth. In fact I was typing them when you posted first!
 

Joseph

Patron
So it seems at least some former members still believe the past lives experience... have any of you experienced the so called "time travel"? I was listening to Fishman and he said that high level Scientologists dont have to go by linear time... so does that mean you can experience your past lives as if you were there rather than just remembering them?

He also claimed he can see through walls and that he doesn't need his eyes to see and ears to hear.

How true is this? I mean all you need to do to prove Scientology right or wrong is to demonstrate this. Hide something behind a wall and then ask the Scientologist to tell you what you're hiding
 

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
Solely on DN auditing and without provocation from myself, I had several PCs go into past lives.

I was in the pre-natal area and "something" wouldn't lift. I asked if there was an earlier incident and the PC started choking with strangulation.

"What was that?"
"I was hanged."
"When?"
"18xx"

I also had (a long lost) friend who suddenly went track mid-conversation, and it emerged that he was an SS Officer--he gave many details which were authenticated.

PS: I remember a TV show where those evil "psychs" were investigating past lives, and they found that by getting the patient to recount the event several times its effect was lessened. Sound familiar?

One of the interviewees was a very young girl who claimed her foot had become stuck in railway tracks and she had been killed by a train. She took researchers back to the location and showed them, also telling them her age, name, parents names, and so on. According to the TV program this was also authenticated.

A current friend who experienced exteriorization with full perception during intensive surgery. He left the surgeon horrified with his accurate descriptions of everything that took place in the O.R.

If there is no such thing as past life, or soul without body, then we can only be left with the conclusion that memories are scattered and echo about the Universe in a way that we can never hope to understand.
 
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gomorrhan

Gold Meritorious Patron
That DOES sound familiar! Perhaps because it came from HERE:

"What left the symptom behind was not always a single experience. On the contrary, the result was usually brought about by the convergence of several traumas, and often by the repetition of a great number of similar ones. Thus it was necessary to reproduce the whole chain of pathogenic memories in chronological order, or rather in reversed order, the latest ones first and the earliest ones last; and it was quite impossible to jump over the later traumas in order to get back more quickly to the first, which was often the most potent one." [Colors not in original] - SIGMUND FREUD "Two Short Accounts of Psycho-Analysis"
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
If there is no such thing as past life, or soul without body, then we can only be left with the conclusion that memories are scattered and echo about the Universe in a way that we can never hope to understand.

This is a bit of a hodgepodge, since, past lives are not necessary to the concept of disembodies spirits, but, you're getting close to my own suspicion in the matter, that is, that 'space/time' is a purely human perception of something beyond human perception, and, that all space time is concurrently coexistent. From this view, the 'linear' comprehension of reality is our human societal interpretation of reality, but, beyond that societal perception/interpretation, we also have some access to the reality that doesn't fit into a linear framework.

In a way, 'ascention experiences', dreams, visions and even some drug experiences are the 'real' human (but limited) perception of reality, which we culturally have forced into a 'linear narrative'.

So, from that viewpoint, it's not surprising that inklings of 'other times/places' and even *other selves* can be accessed, sometimes.

Because 'self' itself is a cultural 'implant'.

The question I never see answered by 'reincarnation'/Past life adherrents though is 'Why would such past life memories be *your* past life memories?

Zinj
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Scientologists are convinced that they lived past lives and claim to even remember who they were and what they did, so what happens when people leave the Church (leave without joining freezone) do they continue to believe in past lives or do they believe they were brainwashed by the auditor?

I can understand how you would conclude that Scientology is false and that everything you were told was a lie, but how could you be so convinced that you lived before and even remember it, and then suddenly deny it?

Scientologists aren't the only people who believe they've lived before.Auditors do not tell people they've lived before. That's not allowed.

People who leave CofS and Scn itself evaluate and question things they were taught in CofS. They know that they were told a lot of things by staff, in courses, etc, that they weren't supposed to question and they know they were lied to in many cases. So they search for other times they may've been misled or come to the wrong conclusion. Sometimes that leads to deciding that all spiritual ideas (past lives being one such) in Scn are not true. Sometimes it doesn't.
 
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