How do you explain past lives?

Pepin

Patron with Honors
What's always amazed me is how we can recall a past life when someone asks us a question and not automatically recall a past life when we're going about our normal business in life :confused2:


For me, the vivid memories occur when I least expect it.
 

Pepin

Patron with Honors
I'd say everybody is here for his/her/it's own individual reasons. Recovery is one of them. Preventing others from falling into the same trap might be another one. Some people might want to make up for the damage they once did. There are surely many more reasons, but these are probably the most common ones, IMHO.


I prefer These as primary reasons:

Meet other ex's. Share your experiences. Reunite with old friends

This is how the board is advertised on the net.

I would like to see the positive sharing allowed as much as the negative.
 

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
What's always amazed me is how we can recall a past life when someone asks us a question and not automatically recall a past life when we're going about our normal business in life :confused2:

Whilst I had pcs who went past-life in session (one of whose was not Earth-based), my personal past-life "recollections" have been extremely random and have not been in relation to Scn.
 

The Great Zorg

Gold Meritorious Patron
Warp Factor 10 isn't generally useful because it causes temporal evolutions on the occupants. Santa therefore gets progressively fatter and it explains why humanoid forms of the Easter Bunny have been sighted.

A TARDIS has been tried, but because each device isn't supposed to co-exist with itself, the multiple co-existences required to meet the Christmas specifications are a little too stressful on the Relative Dimensional Stabilizer.

The rat's ass you say!?
 
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The Great Zorg

Gold Meritorious Patron
yabut

Whilst I had pcs who went past-life in session (one of whose was not Earth-based), my personal past-life "recollections" have been extremely random and have not been in relation to Scn.

Yes, but other than 'incidents' brought on by hubbard's delusional indoctrination or psychedelic and mind expanding drugs, can you prove any of these lives? :confused2: That proof would be very interesting, indeed! :yes:
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
I prefer These as primary reasons:

Meet other ex's. Share your experiences. Reunite with old friends

This is how the board is advertised on the net.

I would like to see the positive sharing allowed as much as the negative.

Did someone delete your post?

The Bastards!

Zinj
 

Sharone Stainforth

Silver Meritorious Patron
I stopped believing in Santa at the age of 9, by the age of 10, I knew the Easter bunny did not exist. Neither Santa or bunnies ever came to the Apollo.

LRHs OT powerz withered them away.At the age of 11, birthdays other than LRHs became a thing of the past.

Fairies and even hobbits were just make believe, something to hold on to, but it was all just a dream.

Living is an illusion, I just woke up,

To my friends on here, I don't know when I will see you again, but I will see you again, I just don't know when.
 

EP - Ethics Particle

Gold Meritorious Patron
Don't forget, Sharone!

Frodo lives! :yes:

I stopped believing in Santa at the age of 9, by the age of 10, I knew the Easter bunny did not exist. Neither Santa or bunnies ever came to the Apollo.

LRHs OT powerz withered them away.At the age of 11, birthdays other than LRHs became a thing of the past.

Fairies and even hobbits were just make believe, something to hold on to, but it was all just a dream.

Living is an illusion, I just woke up,

To my friends on here, I don't know when I will see you again, but I will see you again, I just don't know when.
 
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Gottabrain

Guest
You assume as if you were there and know him.

I apologize for that, Pepin. I didn't intend to come across that way and did not realize how seriously addicted he had become. I only thought the metaphor you had used comparing RPGs to life was brilliant and useful.


The difference between those games and the "game of life" is: We have lost sight of our spiritual selves. We give our attention to the bodies that to our "point of view" it has become more real that the real us.

Honestly, I know extremely few people personally who have lost sight of their spiritual nature or inner goodness. Maybe it is because I find little commonality with that sort of person. Would those persons even be attracted to any sort of activity in spiritual improvement in the first place, or does it take a shocking miracle in their lives to wake them up? What do you think?

The suicide thread is at another place.

Again, Pepin, my sincere apologies. I was not aware of this. You succeeded in helping your son, though, and that's great. Mine had been addicted to Nintendo when he was young and I took his machine apart and hid every piece in a different place. He never found every piece = game over, addiction over. Obviously a lot different than what happened with your son.

Big assumption. don't underestimate the obsessions of humans. Clearly on this board we have many demonstrations of how someone can be obsessed with being a body.

Good point. But I don't know anyone like that on ESMB. Perhaps there are some you don't know that deeply yet.

A big assumption. Why do you suppose so many people in the world "FEEL" that there is more to life than what meets the eye?
If our bigger viewpoint was so clear, we would not have to "FEEL" it, we would see it and know it.

I didn't say it was always clear. Just that it is always there. Its my personal belief, based on personal experiences and studies and one very private and personal experience in Shivite Hinduism. It is completely unprovable by objective evidence. But I also stated this as my belief. And its a rock solid belief, at that.

I have personally experienced having multiple viewpoints at once in life.
It is good to know thyself!

Its probably possible. I don't doubt your word. I just don't find it useful to pursue and from stories on ESMB, it can even be confusing and harmful to some. I adore simplicity and focusing on one thing at a time and am happiest when I'm able to do that.

Oh yes he did. He was obsessed with the game. He spent his real time
( real time= life), planning his next Avatar, buying and selling of items on ebay.

Another view on this is - do some people get so obsessed with past lives that they spend their current life trying to pursue some old role they played?


I am not sure if you are referring to Role games or life. Amazing how similar they are.

Yes!! It was a brilliant metaphor. I like talking to you.

in the RPG, they simply make another life and continue from where they died and collect their stuff before it is lost.

Sounds like a billion year contract...

In life, ...Only at Death, usually about three days afterwards, does someone finally wake up to their larger viewpoint. What a waste.

No...I don't agree with you there. Heaps of people have had out of body experiences, including atheists (but they don't call it that), which to me is assuming your bigger viewpoint. It happens during higher math studies sometimes, during astrology studies, during certain times when practicing traditional meditations (accomplished Indian gurus, for example), and can happen unexpectedly during peak moments of extreme accomplishment, joy or other times. Abraham Maslow referred to these as "peak experiences" long before Hubbard mentioned them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_experience

and every major religion mentions something along this line. Awareness of the higher viewpoint and connection as well as the fact we are connected to all other living things IS the goal, becoming it while still alive is generally not. Why is that? Is it really because Hubbard was more advanced and we are all trapped, or is it because one really can't or shouldn't assume both views at the same time without going insane because the rules are different? Hubbard did go insane at the end. Something Scns should consider quite seriously. I don't see that the goal of permanently assuming your higher viewpoint while alive is necessary, healthy, obtainable or worthwhile at all. It just distracts from a life well lived and is often just an egotistical endeavor anyway - how could higher enlightenment occur when the individual desire to permanently become the higher viewpoint while simultaneously assuming a life role is based on egotism, selfishness and a need to be better than others? These are very low and unspiritual goals.
 

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
Gottabrain said:
Heaps of people have had out of body experiences, including atheists (but they don't call it that)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6960612.stm
"In other words, we feel that our self is located where the eyes are."

This is probably why any of my "exteriorization" experiences were based on what my physical eyes could see.
It was a different "depth" perception but not anything to do with any ability to "see the back of my head".
However, this does seem like being 3 feet in back of your head. But it is not.
 
I wonder if anyone remembers getting Alzheimer's Disease in a past life and then suddenly forgets that past life of does he or she remember what they were thinking while suffering from Alzheimer's Disease
 
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Gottabrain

Guest
Programmer and Chuck - Great link & vid! Thanks! :thumbsup:

Separating illusion or delusion from reality is also a problem when someone is chasing out-of-body experiences or culty, mystical things.

Its just not healthy.

If you read the Maslow link I attached, its not about the experience being mystical. It is about what a person realizes (yes "cognites" on -- Maslow coined that word long before Hubbard, btw) when they have a peak experience in their life.

Maslow became so angry and frustrated with his students trying to artificially create peak experiences with drugs and missing the essence of what he was trying to say and with their chasing the "peak experience" high that he quit teaching at Berkeley altogether.

And the essence of Maslow is that by trying to become the best people we can and live the best lives we can and love others and contribute in the most honest, compassionate and productive ways in our lives, that we will, along the way, have our own unique "peak experiences" of joy and enlightenment. And chasing these is useless.

Maslow did REAL research studies of the greatest people of our time and the past for common characteristics, etc.

Whether one finds their connection to a higher good and larger view from inside their heart or brain or outside of it doesn't matter.
 

The Great Zorg

Gold Meritorious Patron
yabut

(snip) Separating illusion or delusion from reality is also a problem when someone is chasing out-of-body experiences or culty, mystical things. Its just not healthy.(snip)

Sometimes mystical things just happen. Then although being sane and rational (hopefully), one is left for decades with a "WTF?" It's not healthy never finding an answer to what happened or how or why. :confused2:
 
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Gottabrain

Guest
Sometimes mystical things just happen. Then although being sane and rational (hopefully), one is left for decades with a "WTF?" It's not healthy never finding an answer to what happened or how or why. :confused2:

Good point, Zorg. And hard to answer.

I think we all have a tendency to try to look for explanations for those sort of things. Or anything, really.

When it becomes an obsession to find an answer, a person needs to take a step back and really decide if the search itself is really all that important in the overall scheme of their life.

My idea is that when mystical things occur, the answers of why come along on their own without a great deal of effort on our parts. Like suddenly running into another person with a similar experience, or finding a better way to talk to your child because you appreciate him more after the experience.

After all, the incident itself wasn't planned and came unexpectedly and without effort. Why wouldn't the reason for it then also present itself on its own without a great deal of effort?

Could it be our tendency to overcomplicate things or add more significance than is actually there?

Just a thought.
 

Pepin

Patron with Honors
Originally Posted by Pepin
You assume as if you were there and know him.

I apologize for that, Pepin. I didn't intend to come across that way and did not realize how seriously addicted he had become. I only thought the metaphor you had used comparing RPGs to life was brilliant and useful.

I appreciate the admiration, Thank you.


Honestly, I know extremely few people personally who have lost sight of their spiritual nature or inner goodness. Maybe it is because I find little commonality with that sort of person. Would those persons even be attracted to any sort of activity in spiritual improvement in the first place, or does it take a shocking miracle in their lives to wake them up? What do you think?


If people were fully aware of their spiritual nature, they would not ever think of themselves as a spirit in a body.
Being exterior to the body would not even be fully spiritually aware.
Being so aware that one can see their thoughts and feelings create life in an instant is closer, but we are much much more than that.

I don't think it takes a shocking miracle, I think it takes a willingness to let go of the lies we believe are true.
I have mentioned in previous posts that I know what it looks like to be awake. I am not doing it.
What would it take for me to "wake up" again?? One who knows he IS asleep to a certain extent??
No shocking miracle, no information that I'm aware of....

My willingness to tell the song of the world to "shut up" .. Yes, that would do it. But it's like being at a crowded concert hall and telling the band to shut up. They have mic's. And the fear of what the other concert goers might do is a consideration.


Good point. But I don't know anyone like that on ESMB. Perhaps there are some you don't know that deeply yet.

Anyone who posts we are bodies and looks for spiritual understanding in the physical realm would be a strong indicator. Then someone who pushes physical reality as more important than the spiritual or more real would be acting out the role of one of the jailers in the mental prison against creative thought and expression.


>Pepin: Why do you suppose so many people in the world "FEEL" that there is more to life than what meets the eye?
>If our bigger viewpoint was so clear, we would not have to "FEEL" it, we would see it and know it.

I didn't say it was always clear. Just that it is always there.

Very true!!

If it is not always "clear", then would it be fair to say that person is not awake to the whole truth of themselves?

I know what it looks like to be awake. I know that I am much much more than what this world can accept. I recall from the higher point of view that things I think are important and require much attention have little meaning from that point of view.

That in my opinion is the big waste. A waste of attention.
If someone or something demands our attention, do we feel that we are giving something?
Or sometimes giving attention when it could be used elsewhere?
Or perhaps we may consider we "don't have time" to give our attention.

Time is our most precious commodity. Being aware is perhaps the essence of life.
This moment is now gone!, never to be had again.

From that point of view, wouldn't it be wonderful to have 50% more attention to use in life?

This is what I realized the day I woke up.
I got a huge chunk of attention back that I had been putting on the body.
That attention had been wasted on a body that doesn't need it.
it was a waste of energy and in one example time also.

Everyone who wastes attention by giving it to a body is doing just that.
(profound huh!?)

Having multiple viewpoints for a moment of life mainly served to give me more knowledge of my life and hopefully wisdom.

Another view on this is - do some people get so obsessed with past lives that they spend their current life trying to pursue some old role they played?

never underestimate the desire for a human to obsess about anything ~lol

For me, visiting places like the grave of a former self or ruins of a home was a fun adventure. I also wanted to "feel" the areas and know myself more.
At those moment, like when I am in the presence of the former wife, I feel a lot of energy.
It seems in the last lifetime I got a lot done and made more use with my time than I do today with all the distractions of entertainment.


Yes!! It was a brilliant metaphor. I like talking to you.


Thank you. It is pleasure to at last converse with someone on ESMB that is as gracious as you.

I admire the way you hold your beliefs and are not threatened by other beliefs.

>In life, ...Only at Death, usually about three days afterwards, does someone finally wake up to their larger >viewpoint. What a waste.

No...I don't agree with you there. Heaps of people have had out of body experiences, including atheists (but they don't call it that), which to me is assuming your bigger viewpoint.


We are much much more than that.

Awareness of the higher viewpoint and connection as well as the fact we are connected to all other living things IS the goal, becoming it while still alive is generally not.


If that is "The Goal", would it not be better to wake up and realize we are already there?

There are perhaps a dozen or more "spiritual realms". They are layered so to speak.
We operate on many of them simultaneously.
This is interesting because spirits (US) are not in time.

Not being in time means that physical rules don't apply to the true us.
If this is our more natural state, is it a game of MEST that we as spirits adhere to physical rules??


I find some of the things Hubbard wrote as useful. One being:
It is better to have the point of view of the player rather than the one being played in "the game".

That is more real.



~p
 
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The Great Zorg

Gold Meritorious Patron
May never happen

Good point, Zorg. And hard to answer.(snip)
After all, the incident itself wasn't planned and came unexpectedly and without effort. Why wouldn't the reason for it then also present itself on its own without a great deal of effort?
Could it be our tendency to overcomplicate things or add more significance than is actually there? Just a thought.

It's been 40 years since I had my first mystical experience. Still no solid answer to it. I'm still waiting. :confused2:
 

The Great Zorg

Gold Meritorious Patron
WTF?

I stopped believing in Santa at the age of 9, by the age of 10, I knew the Easter bunny did not exist. Neither Santa or bunnies ever came to the Apollo.(snip)

There's no Santa? Oh come on now... you've gone too far. The next thing you'll prolly say is that there's no Easter Bunny! Oh no! Look! See?! :bigcry:

What next? Leprechauns? Faeries? The Reactive Mind? :nervous:
 
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Gottabrain

Guest
Hi Pepin,

I had to read your post several times through for a few reasons. One is that, although many of the concepts you bring up are quite deep, they are in a Scn framework that I discarded over 20 years ago. Its actually quite difficult for me to get into that mindset again, since it doesn't directly compare to my views now and even once I finally fully understand what you are saying, I have to then translate it over somehow to my current framework. Its sort of an "up down and across and sideways and up again" mental maneuver, if you get what I mean.

This is where you and I veer off in our views. I appreciate your explaining yours. It was food for thought. I hope you give similar attention to my explanation of mine.

My view/beliefs:
Nobody is trapped. I most certainly am not. In any life or death situation I have my bigger viewpoint. What is beyond that I will see better when I am there. I've been fortunate in my life and had sufficient spiritual experiences to feel completely confident and at peace with that and with myself.

To try to see it now from this view/this life is like a dog trying to see in colour, or to try to see a house from the other side of a mountain. To try to become both viewpoints or the bigger viewpoints at the same time is not necessary for my personal well being, growth or survival. Nor has doing such a thing successfully been properly documented by anyone, ever, and I have no desire to be the trailblazer for this, either.

I do not have any inclination or desire to explore it further because I feel complete. I feel at peace within myself spiritually. Not perfect, not without the day to day annoyances, personal goals to meet, etc. But peaceful and personally complete, regardless.

As far as having enough attention, bodies, etc. I understand your point. But the body is made up of living cells, organs, functions. The most joyous moments of my life were not outside of it, but being fully here, right now, completely in the moment as myself with my attention on what was going on around me, not even thinking in terms of "there's me, and there's my body and I inhabit it." No - just me, a composite being, tags, labels and all.
I don't enjoy the concept of "here's me and here's my body" even though it is true in a spiritual sense. Because its both true and not true at the same time. Considering my self with a separateness like that causes a sort of "disassociation" with what goes on around me so that I can't be completely in the moment and aware of everything around me. I know the bigger viewpoint is always there. I just don't think about it. And by not thinking about it, I enjoy all the little things in life and fully participate wholeheartedly that much more and am very aware - VERY aware - of everything around me.

I said before all of life is connected. That is my religion. I am a composite being as I am right now. Sometimes there is disharmony, bad flows, bad vibes.
I don't find these hard to spot or handle when they occur. It is usually due to something I've done, should do, or haven't done with my life, my physical health, my loved ones or the living things around me. So mostly, it doesn't sound all loud and like too many voices in discord. Mostly, life flows, it moves, it is always in motion and its like a song and a dance. And I don't even think of them as vibes or flows anymore. I am part of the dance, connected to all of life.

Scientology made me feel disassociated with life. I don't feel that way anymore. Life is not perfect - oh no! Life is suffering and challenges and rewards and pain, but it is what it is and it's (mostly) a symphony of motion. And afterward will be even more beautiful, and I think that's really cool. :)

I did not intend to offend you in any way here. I certainly respect your beliefs and appreciate your sharing them. It gave me much to think about and I hope you feel the same. Thanks for your interest and consideration to hear my views. :hattip:

Sheila
 
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Gottabrain

Guest
It's been 40 years since I had my first mystical experience. Still no solid answer to it. I'm still waiting. :confused2:

But can you imagine if you spent 40 years searching for the answer and then, upon finding it, found it wasn't important anyway? :melodramatic:
 
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