How do you explain past lives?

uniquemand

Unbeliever
Physical body and "spirit" are different aspects of the same being, IMO. They are, of course, different, but it isn't totally inaccurate to point at your body and say "me". As a spiritual (or psychic) being, I have different properties, but even THAT persona is not me, except while I am being it.

I have an old-school process that can be informative on this point.

"Get the idea of being your body"
"Get the idea of being your name"
"Get the idea of being who your mother thinks you are"
"Get the idea of who your father thinks you are"

etc., etc., etc.

They are all "true" aspects of your self. To the extent that you ARE those aspects, you ARE dysfunctional.
 

Pepin

Patron with Honors
Physical body and "spirit" are different aspects of the same being, IMO. They are, of course, different, but it isn't totally inaccurate to point at your body and say "me". As a spiritual (or psychic) being, I have different properties, but even THAT persona is not me, except while I am being it.

If the spirit is not YOU, Who are YOU? What makes YOU YOU?
Where is the essence of YOU?

I agree with the body statement. This body is something I own so it is "my body"

It would seem silly for someone to look at their car and call it ME instead of "my car"


~p
 

Pepin

Patron with Honors
Hi Pepin,

I had to read your post several times through for a few reasons. One is that, although many of the concepts you bring up are quite deep, they are in a Scn framework

That's curious. My big spiritual awakening and description of it occurred more than a year before I stepped into an org.

I suppose you refer to my mention of MEST. In this venue, it seemed an accurate descrition of Space/Time and all the stuff in it.

With that in mind, it may be good to realize I will not regurgitate anything that is told as fact or fiction from scientology. I will however, describe what I observed from a higher point of view.


My view/beliefs:
Nobody is trapped. I most certainly am not.

Oh I agree, WE all choose.
I have written in other posts that I made a conscious decision to decide to take on another body and do another lifetime. I recall my considerations and the debate I had with myself as clear as I recall yesterdays breakfast.

That being said, it is the IDEA of a trap that people can buy into.

I bought into the idea. I even planned my life with helpers because of the idea and fear that I was going to forget the previous lifetime and all my knowledge.

Sure, I bought into the idea of forgetting.

It is good to remember.

As far as having enough attention, bodies, etc. I understand your point. But the body is made up of living cells, organs, functions. The most joyous moments of my life were not outside of it, but being fully here, right now,

Some people suggest that there is an either or to having a spiritual viewpoint or that of a body. Why?

Does not the same spirit have the same joyous moments with the body while also keeping the spiritual viewpoint? The physical senses do not stop and they are merely added. Likewise, a body is very limited in it's ability to perceive.
From my point of view, a person can be MORE here and have MORE of a joyous moment. Moreover, someone who is more aware is in fact experiencing more moments to be joyous about.


VERY aware - of everything around me.

I too was very aware. I was aware of people walking outside the home, I was aware of many submoments. Then ............... I woke up!

I became more aware and realized what I thought was "very aware" was very asleep in comparison.


Even now, most people believe me to be very aware. I can sense future events, people in proximity, I can touch the heart of a person and help them be more aware.
Compared to what I know is awake and aware, I am in a coma.

I love hearing the eloquent way you describe your viewpoint. You give me interesting ideas that will help me with the book I am writing on "waking up"

~p
 
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uniquemand

Unbeliever
If the spirit is not YOU, Who are YOU? What makes YOU YOU?
Where is the essence of YOU?

I agree with the body statement. This body is something I own so it is "my body"

It would seem silly for someone to look at their car and call it ME instead of "my car"


~p

The question "who are you" implies that a person must be "someone" or "something". It's like saying "what molecule are you?" The answer to a "who" question demands an "identity statement", which is exactly the trap I'm trying to avoid. In scieno-speke, a person trying to find out who they are is in "enemy". I agree with this, in principle, as this can lead to identifying with one person, group or country or idea over another, and leads to games. Games might be fun, or engrossing, but I don't find them enlightening.

As far as the car analogy: yes, the body is not you, the same way the car is not you. However, a person could accurately state that your body arrived in that car, and that your views and feelings were expressed by your body. Thus pointing at the car and saying "me" is also valid.

The symbols/bodies/avatars that we use for people to understand us are helpful for recognition, but become an obstacle if we make the mistake of identifying the person with the body (or their achievements, or their illnesses, or their house, or their career, etc.)
 

The Great Zorg

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yabut

But can you imagine if you spent 40 years searching for the answer and then, upon finding it, found it wasn't important anyway? :melodramatic:

Then again, what if you waited over 40 years for that explanation and it turned out to be so tumultuous that I would have no choice but to ignore it? Maybe that's why the answer is not forthcoming?
 
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Gottabrain

Guest
I'm glad you don't believe in the trap, Pepin. :) Thanks for your answers.

Back when I was a pre-teenager and reading the first bits of philosophy and religion and realized I was a spiritual being, the differentiation between body and spirit was a bit deal.

But although true in one sense, its not quite accurate in other ways and overemphasis on that has actually been destructive to me in my life.

To clarify my religion: "All of Life is Connected".

I don't believe in BTs or clusters.

I "live" as much through those connections as not. Life in different spheres, real or not, is still connected. Even life outside of life is still connected through love. Gaining the ability to perceive and communicate with other points of views gives me space and compassion. Love and other feelings jump the Internet and come across to me instantaneously from across the world. Birds (particularly parrots) - a special animal to me that I have been rehabilitating back to the wild and have a special love for, come to me out of the blue when they are in trouble. People show up out of the blue with an answer when I need it. I show up for other people out of the blue when they need it. Yes, this sort of thing happens to lots of other people when they are in tune and connected. And it's beautiful. Are they unaware? Am I? By what yardstick and whose yardstick? If I don't go on and on about OT tricks to others, it could mean I don't experience them - but it could also mean that even if I do, they don't matter to me as I am happy as I am and I don't believe that is the correct emphasis.

I don't feel disabled or asleep in any way. Is my way better? Perhaps, perhaps not. It is MY way though, and right for me. And I believe there are many ways.
 
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Gottabrain

Guest
Then again, what if you waited over 40 years for that explanation and it turned out to be so tumultuous that I would have no choice but to ignore it? Maybe that's why the anser is not forthcoming?

A famous philosopher once stated that the cause of schizophrenia was having had a spiritual experience so incredible that the mind couldn't take it. He felt that the mind is too fragile and limited to accept truths of this magnitude without shutting down (ignoring) or breaking and that is why we can't perceive the truth in its entirety.

Sorry, can't find a link and don't remember who it was. Someone famous though. But it was because I read this that I thought (when I was a Scn) that this is what happened to Hubbard. In other words, he didn't actually ever make it through the Wall of Fire at all but whatever he saw made his mind blow up.

Later, I discovered from his real history that he showed all the symptoms of schizophrenia long before he ever came up with OT 3.
 

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
If the spirit is not YOU, Who are YOU? What makes YOU YOU?
Where is the essence of YOU?

I agree with the body statement. This body is something I own so it is "my body"

It would seem silly for someone to look at their car and call it ME instead of "my car"


~p

This is exactly the question that I asked as a child:

If it's my body, my mind, my brain, my soul, my thoughts; who/what am "I" to own all these things?
 

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
This is exactly the question that I asked as a child:

If it's my body, my mind, my brain, my soul, my thoughts; who/what am "I" to own all these things?

The answer is right there in the question. You are the I who owns those things.

True but, for those who haven't realized their own "oneness", Scn like many other 'religions' provides false comfort and distraction from true enlightenment.

Perhaps we should refer to the Age of Entanglement.
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
True but, for those who haven't realized their own "oneness", Scn like many other 'religions' provides false comfort and distraction from true enlightenment.

Perhaps we should refer to the Age of Entanglement.
Ah, yes indeed, and coming soon to a CofS near you; The Golden Age of Entanglement!
 
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Gottabrain

Guest
...and then I come back with... "All life is connected".

None of it is owned except as the type of ownership that is responsibility and recognition and respect of that life. We live through it, with it, alongside it, as part of it. Call it the 1st through 8th Dynamics if you have to, but all living things are part of it and part of us and it is not so separated or there would be no universe at all or life as we know it of any kind. The more we are part of life, live it, love it and embrace it the bigger we get. The more we resist it, the smaller.

In Christianity this is referred to as "The Body of Christ".

I am just presenting this as a different view, not as a "right or wrong". To me, the ultimate, complete separation and severance of one's spirit from all other forms of life and livingness is complete nothingness, nothing more, with no lifeline back. Not a sort of freedom to be enjoyed.

There is certainly truth in what you are saying as well. I can relate and do, but from a very different perspective now than when I was in Scn.

In my perspective, this is why L Ron went insane in a personal battle against BTs and clusters. His emphasis was on disconnection. Wrong goal.

L Ron was so busy emphasizing the parts, he neglected the whole. A pretty big "Ooopsy!"
 
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Gottabrain

Guest
and to relate this on a bigger scale...

It is like breathing. The universe, your universe, naturally expands and contracts. It is like astronomy and the stars, and like a single molecule, always in motion. Moons circle around planets, connected by gravitational force. In the beginning is nothing, at the end is nothing. And it cycles. Life cycles over and over. The universe cycles over and over.

The spiritual mirrors nature, nature mirrors the spiritual.
 

Stat

Gold Meritorious Patron
I had a couple of cases as an auditor, where my pcs would reveal some very specific details about their previous lifetime and they wanted to actually go places and confirm stuff (including myself as a pc). Pretty exciting, I must say. None of us got anywhere. Also, my good friend and a fellow auditor (who is C/S now) told me to not bother, to avoid any possible invalidation of the whole thing. Hmm.. Yeah.
On the other hand, there are some completely Scn-unrelated video stories on the net that sort of prove otherwise.
Now tell me life is not an adventure lol :D :coolwink:

P.S. Personally, I like the soundtrack "The Circle of Life" from "Lion King". At least it makes more sense at this point. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX07j9SDFcc
 

Pepin

Patron with Honors
None of it is owned except as the type of ownership that is responsibility and recognition and respect of that life. We live through it, with it, alongside it, as part of it. Call it the 1st through 8th Dynamics if you have to, but all living things are part of it and part of us and it is not so separated or there would be no universe at all or life as we know it of any kind. The more we are part of life, live it, love it and embrace it the bigger we get. The more we resist it, the smaller.

In Christianity this is referred to as "The Body of Christ".

I am in the body of Christ. The body of Christ I am in is something different.
Jesus IS the head of the of the body.
It is made up of those FEW who have asked and received Jesus to be in them. Literally.

There also seems to be some confusion as to what the word "Christ" means. I will go ahead and highlight that one here.
Christ is from the Greek Christos, Greek for the Hebrew word Messiah.
It is a very specific word in Jewish theology meaning "The anointed one" derived from the Jewish tradition of anointing kings.
The Christ is specific for the one who will free Israel from oppression and is anointed King at the end of days. Not everyone is or can be Christ for there is only one king.
 
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