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How do you refer to your Scn "job" on your resume/cv?

asteroid

Patron with Honors
I've read some interesting threads in this section, but there's one issue I haven't come across that, at one time, was a real head-scratcher for me. When you go looking for a regular job in the "wog" world, in what way do you refer to your time on staff in Scn?

This is no longer an issue for me. My time on staff was 30 years ago, now. Entire sections of my professional life have one-sentence summaries, even when they're relevant to my industry. (After all, who cares what I worked on 20 years ago? The stuff that matters in a resume is recent accomplishments.)

But at one point, soon after I left, I had no idea what to write down.

On the one hand, it's what I'd spent the last few years doing. I had learned things that (arguably) were relevant to the job for which I was applying (or so I hoped, anyhow). And I didn't really want a great gaping hole in the timeline, about which someone might ask questions.

On the other hand, I didn't really want to bring it up. Whatever my opinions were about the Scn/staff experience, in resume terms it was simply "Hey, I worked there." A job interview (or the hope of one!) isn't the time to bring up emotionally charged issues (the same might be said about working for a political party or an abortion clinic). When you're presenting yourself in a resume, you want people to focus on what you KNOW and what you can DO, not the company where you worked and its public perception.

Even if you are circumspect, how many of us can easily summarize our positions? "I was in charge of marketing services to consumers..."? Somehow that didn't take body routing into account.

As it turns out, I was lucky. I got a job very quickly after leaving, by returning full-time to a company where I'd worked as college summer jobs (therefore they knew my personal reputation and the resume was irrelevant). But not everyone is in that state.

I'm curious how y'all handled it.
 

cinamingrl

Patron Meritorious
oh

I've read some interesting threads in this section, but there's one issue I haven't come across that, at one time, was a real head-scratcher for me. When you go looking for a regular job in the "wog" world, in what way do you refer to your time on staff in Scn?

This is no longer an issue for me. My time on staff was 30 years ago, now. Entire sections of my professional life have one-sentence summaries, even when they're relevant to my industry. (After all, who cares what I worked on 20 years ago? The stuff that matters in a resume is recent accomplishments.)

But at one point, soon after I left, I had no idea what to write down.

On the one hand, it's what I'd spent the last few years doing. I had learned things that (arguably) were relevant to the job for which I was applying (or so I hoped, anyhow). And I didn't really want a great gaping hole in the timeline, about which someone might ask questions.

On the other hand, I didn't really want to bring it up. Whatever my opinions were about the Scn/staff experience, in resume terms it was simply "Hey, I worked there." A job interview (or the hope of one!) isn't the time to bring up emotionally charged issues (the same might be said about working for a political party or an abortion clinic). When you're presenting yourself in a resume, you want people to focus on what you KNOW and what you can DO, not the company where you worked and its public perception.

Even if you are circumspect, how many of us can easily summarize our positions? "I was in charge of marketing services to consumers..."? Somehow that didn't take body routing into account.

As it turns out, I was lucky. I got a job very quickly after leaving, by returning full-time to a company where I'd worked as college summer jobs (therefore they knew my personal reputation and the resume was irrelevant). But not everyone is in that state.

I'm curious how y'all handled it.

Oh yah, I can remember this. Fortunately I was working while on staff, so I didn't have huge gaps in my resume. In the real world, huge gaps are indicators of prison time or other bad stuff. I often wondered about this too, with the SO people. But I never had the nerve to ask what will they do when they need to look for a real job. This is a very very good question. I'm curious to see what people say. I told my prospective employer who hired me when I left, that I am volunteering my time at a church. They knew me from working there as a temporary worker while I was on staff a year before. So I actually said "I quit my volunteer job",when the manager asked me if I am available for full-time work. I had even worked as a temporary clerk at several scientology owned companies while In staff full-time. But of course, once I was 'blown', do you think that any of them would have the nerve to hire me again? Nope. But in retrospect, that was probably a blessing in disguise, I would have still been connected to it somehow, and hearing all of the jargon they used constantly was unnerving.
 
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Little Bear Victor

Silver Meritorious Patron
After almost 20 years in the SO I found writing a CV to be a bitch. I could overcome the problem by making the CV very brief and concentrating on a portfolio of work, but that's not possible in every case. I also took advantage of the fact that most employees asked for a brief CV and would decide based on that whether they want to do a job interview. So I only ever had to do a one-page CV and used the portfolio in the interviews.

I suggest minimizing the employer factor and describing the type of work that you did, and what experience and skills you have in as normal a language as possible. You may or may not find an exact job title matching a Scn post, so you could say my duties were equivalent of/similar to that of a ____.

If you have something you can SHOW instead of something you can only talk about, you can avoid the issue of a CV altogether. I replaced my CV as soon as I could by putting together a website featuring my work and referring people to it. Worked way better, but likely won't work for everyone's situation.

Just my experience. Others probably have much more in-depth experience along this line.
 

byte301

Crusader
Self employed works too. You can include all your skills and experience with this one if you get creative. It's a bit of a stretch but how many of you that were on staff didn't actually do odd jobs and like that to survive? And that's self employed as far as I'm concerned.
 

asteroid

Patron with Honors
Self employed works too. You can include all your skills and experience with this one if you get creative. It's a bit of a stretch but how many of you that were on staff didn't actually do odd jobs and like that to survive? And that's self employed as far as I'm concerned.

Good point. I did plenty of work as a temp typist (Kelly Girl and suchlike), which I probably could have used to explain the time. Certainly there are few staff jobs/skills that have a one-to-one relationship to "regular" jobs.

Though "Full-time volunteer for religious organization" would work, too. And then no U.S. employer could ask about it.
 

gomorrhan

Gold Meritorious Patron
I handled it by working in jobs that didn't care where I had worked before (driving a cab for many years, working in fast food or restaurants, etc.). Basically, I think you have to simply completely rebuild your resume from the ground up, on leaving. When people asked what I did before those other jobs, I'd say I spent several years working at a non-profit, essentially taking several years off to figure out what I wanted to do with my life.
 

byte301

Crusader
I always kept a full time job and did part time staff. I dunno. I just have this thang about having a roof over my head and food to eat.:D The attitude must have come from a rather poor childhood.

I would just have to contemplate which would sound worse these days, $cientology job for 10 years or prison for 10 years?
 

asteroid

Patron with Honors
I handled it by working in jobs that didn't care where I had worked before (driving a cab for many years, working in fast food or restaurants, etc.). Basically, I think you have to simply completely rebuild your resume from the ground up, on leaving. When people asked what I did before those other jobs, I'd say I spent several years working at a non-profit, essentially taking several years off to figure out what I wanted to do with my life.

I think that's what most of us wind up doing... which is probably a good thing. I was in a state of confusion after I left, simply because I had mocked up a future that I had to suddenly un-mock. A simple just-do-this job was the right thing for me, as I worked out what I was ready to do next.

However, one of the guys I worked with on staff had been an accountant beforehand. Assuming that he left, too (I would bet he did), it must have been harder to apply for a Professional Job. (Though, hmm, come to think of it, "independent consultant" probably would have let him point to the occasional bookkeeping gigs he took on to pay the rent.)
 

asteroid

Patron with Honors
I would just have to contemplate which would sound worse these days, $cientology job for 10 years or prison for 10 years?

Seriously... the former is still better. I have a nephew who did time, got his head screwed on straight while in prison (that is, it actually had the desired effect) and has had a bear of a time trying to get hired for honest work at anything but the crappiest, lowest-paying jobs.

I almost never tell my professional colleagues about my scn history. Not because I'm ashamed of it (I'm not -- and besides, I know I did was in my power to make the world a better place, which is more than many people can say)... but because I just don't want to have THAT conversation. I would hate to try to have THAT conversation before you even get the position!
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
Great question.

A couple of ideas.

My ex-husband put "Dianetics" on his resume.

Some people see the TV commercials, and don't associate it with Scientology.

It's just one of those companies who do infomercials.

What I did was use the initials of the org I worked for.

(Think "AOSH". "AOEU". "AOUK".)

Then gave a brief description of my job in wog terms.

Didn't bring up anything about who or what they were. When questioned, I said they were a "non-profit".

I actually got questioned during an interviewer about what Axxxx was, and I just said it was a non-profit organization. Didn't elaboarate.

Got the job. :)
 

Little Bear Victor

Silver Meritorious Patron
You can always say you worked for CSI and people will think you were doing Crime Scene Investigation!

And you can say, "yes, sort of."

(Sorry, couldn't resist...)
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
You can always say you worked for CSI and people will think you were doing Crime Scene Investigation!

And you can say, "yes, sort of."

(Sorry, couldn't resist...)

Exactly.

That is really how it is with corporations.

They are used to the initial stuff.

Let them infer what they want, and don't contradict them.

:)
 

Sir Facer

Patron with Honors
job c.v reply

Yes this is a very interesting point "what do you put on your job c.v/resume" well, I did put any staff status courses done down as "Administration courses" and that I worked at a self help group, and this seemed to fly.
I put a reference down as a close friend who has also disconnected with the Church, and she has never been contacted by any of the companies I applied for, and I am now in a stable full time / permanent position.
My husband however, did have it down on his C.V, but was told by his recruitment agency to take it off as they felt it was the reason he was not getting replies to employment reaches. As soon as he took it out he landed his first real money making job, so I don't think it stands in favour of you in the real world. :thumbsup:
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
I put down CofS names. The only problem I had with any HR person was with a SCIENTOLOGY company (Management Success! in Glendale) who didn't want any "volunteer" work on my work history. I left it on.

Paul
 

asteroid

Patron with Honors
I put a reference down as a close friend who has also disconnected with the Church, and she has never been contacted by any of the companies I applied for, and I am now in a stable full time / permanent position.

Depends on the type of job and the company (and nothing to do with Scn). I always offered references; some companies called them, others didn't. Folks who don't call the references say they assume you only give 'em folks who'll say nice things about you anyway so it's a waste of time.

My husband however, did have it down on his C.V, but was told by his recruitment agency to take it off as they felt it was the reason he was not getting replies to employment reaches. As soon as he took it out he landed his first real money making job, so I don't think it stands in favour of you in the real world. :thumbsup:
I can't imagine that it could be possibly interpreted positively. Even if it was a positive experience for the ex-staff member.
 

cinamingrl

Patron Meritorious
~~~~

My husband however, did have it down on his C.V, but was told by his recruitment agency to take it off as they felt it was the reason he was not getting replies to employment reaches. As soon as he took it out he landed his first real money making job, so I don't think it stands in favour of you in the real world.
No and it never did for me either. I can remember that at any temp assignment that I did during my staff years, that the assignement suddenly ended with no reason. I told one women at a large family owned company that I worked at the c of s at nightt. HEr response was "that's a cult". I was defensive and said that it wasn't. She only said "it's listed with the governement as a cult." End of story and no more job. I never brought it up again.
I can't imagine that it could be possibly interpreted positively. Even if it was a positive experience for the ex-staff member.

My twin on my TR's a OBjct's said that I should not put it on my resume. I was so upset and didn't believe him. I thought he was an SP. But he was right. :confused2:
Good point. I did plenty of work as a temp typist (Kelly Girl and suchlike), which I probably could have used to explain the time.
I worked for Kelly too. They helped me a lot. I returned to one of my temp jobs after bowing from staff, and they hired me fulltime. I just told them I left my volunteer job. They didn't even question it.
Certainly there are few staff jobs/skills that have a one-to-one relationship to "regular" jobs.
Yah, after I left staff, I eventually got a good position at UPS in their South. Cal. HR. I was a PPO on staff, I think thay may have helped a bit. But not for sure.
Though "Full-time volunteer for religious organization" would work, too. And then no U.S. employer could ask about it.
See, the "wog" world isn't so frightening after all now is it. This was what I was so afraid of, whether or not "wogs" would want to employ me.
 
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programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
It could also depend on how old you are and what you are intending to do.

When I left SCN I was still fairly young and re-entered college as a full time student. I only had to answer the dean's question as to why I left college and why I was coming back. There was no way that I was going to tell her about my involvement in Scientology because I was afraid that she would think that I was a nut-case. So, I told her a half-truth... I didn't want to do physics anymore... I wanted to do applied mathematics in computer science. This worked for me... I was admitted for re-entry.
 

Amadeus Einstein

Patron with Honors
I put the name of the org rather than C of S. Agency staff would see the word foundation and assume it was some kind of charity, and the reference to the day org didn't even register with them. If they pursued the matter, I'd tell them it was a private college. They'd rarely enquire further.

Luckily I have a friend (still in) who is willing to give me references. I tell people he works mainly from home and that correspondence is only to go to his private address. That way I don't have to give the name and address of the org on my application form.

Application forms that ask for a salary can be tricky. Firms tend to discount my executive experience because I wasn't on an executive-level salary, hence my doing a pretty routine admin job. I made up some story about how I was there as a student on work experience getting paid expenses-only, and that I'd decided to leave because their part of the deal regarding subsidising my degree had fallen through. (I do in fact have a partially-completed degree to support this story.)

I made up wog versions of some of my org course names, but only a few of them (such as admin courses) translate well. I put things like "Basic Staff Counselling" for TRs and Objectives, to give the interviewer the impression of good listening skills. Some of them don't translate at all (how do you explain Method 1, for example?) so you just have to leave them out.

More difficult to explain was things like why I didn't have a driving licence.

I read up on CV-writing skills in a book and liked the idea of a "functional" CV that emphasises skills and achievements and merely lists the jobs chronologically at the end. Agencies however hated it and insisted that I re-wrote the CV explaining what my duties were at each job. This wasn't easy as I'd held a number of utterly disrelated posts, and besides, many achievements which I felt to be representative of what I could do I had actually done in non-work related contexts, and I didn't want these to be relegated to the "other interests" section of the application.

I like the idea of a portfolio, rather than a CV. CVs (especially when the agencies insist on them being written in a job-by-job format) only reflect the opportunities you've been given by others, rather than everything you've achieved and can do.
 

asteroid

Patron with Honors
I put the name of the org rather than C of S. Agency staff would see the word foundation and assume it was some kind of charity, and the reference to the day org didn't even register with them. If they pursued the matter, I'd tell them it was a private college. They'd rarely enquire further.

Which is kind of scary, really. The fact that so many of us could be circumspect about our backgrounds (and get away with it) is some indication of how easily one can say anything on a resume.

Application forms that ask for a salary can be tricky. Firms tend to discount my executive experience because I wasn't on an executive-level salary, hence my doing a pretty routine admin job. I made up some story about how I was there as a student on work experience getting paid expenses-only, and that I'd decided to leave because their part of the deal regarding subsidising my degree had fallen through. (I do in fact have a partially-completed degree to support this story.)

Which may be an argument in favor of the "full time volunteer for a religious organization" listing. If you were the (volunteer) president of the local Easter Seals nobody would raise an eyebrow at the lack of an executive salary -- but they'd expect you would know how to motivate people to get the job done. (Years after my Scn experience I did get involved in community/volunteer activities. I've been able to talk up my [real] ability to convince people to donate their free time to working on this stuff. "Because I'm paying you" is cheap motivation; getting people to buy into the importance of what you're doing is a much stronger leadership ability.)

I made up wog versions of some of my org course names, but only a few of them (such as admin courses) translate well. I put things like "Basic Staff Counselling" for TRs and Objectives, to give the interviewer the impression of good listening skills. Some of them don't translate at all (how do you explain Method 1, for example?) so you just have to leave them out.

And realistically they aren't relevant on a resume, any more than are most college courses. A resume's purpose is to demonstrate to the reader that you have skills matching their needs. "I have very good study skills" isn't what they're looking for. "I'm great at communication [because I took a course at it]" isn't, either; the only people who need to list the courses they took are recent graduates who show their training is relevant to the entry level job for which they're applying.

What an employer wants is data... achievements that can be backed up. Statistics are good: "My role was to increase donations to this non-profit organization. Within 6 months, I had tripled income."

Long ago, I was told about a book about how to lie on a resume. I never did read the book, but the acquaintance suggested that statistical statements like that one will never be fact-checked with a reference. Nobody would admit that they let such a great salesperson got away, and they sure don't want to talk about the organization's finances. So, the book said (according to the gal who told me about it) you can make impressive claims as long as they're plausible.

I've never had the nerve to lie on a resume, and besides my actual professional background is <modest cough> impressive enough. But I think you can find real accomplishments that others can understand.

I read up on CV-writing skills in a book and liked the idea of a "functional" CV that emphasises skills and achievements and merely lists the jobs chronologically at the end. Agencies however hated it and insisted that I re-wrote the CV explaining what my duties were at each job. This wasn't easy as I'd held a number of utterly disrelated posts, and besides, many achievements which I felt to be representative of what I could do I had actually done in non-work related contexts, and I didn't want these to be relegated to the "other interests" section of the application.

I like the idea of a portfolio, rather than a CV. CVs (especially when the agencies insist on them being written in a job-by-job format) only reflect the opportunities you've been given by others, rather than everything you've achieved and can do.

It's always a good idea to have a portfolio -- it's another way to unemotionally demonstrate achievement. That's helpful or necessary in some professions, where "what you can do now" is more important than "what you've done before." For example, my spouse -- who had owned a photography studio before joining the sea org -- was given a very difficult darkroom test before he was offered a job at a major photo studio. An artist will have a portfolio of his best/favorite work... which might include a drawing of yet another dragon on yet another bridge, but it could be anything in that portfolio.

Don't worry so much about all the posts you held in the CofS. Nobody is going to go over your staff status record, and you'd be lucky if the CofS would even acknowledge you worked there. (It varies by geography, I think, but for legal/liability reasons many U.S. companies' human resources departments will only confirm that the individual worked there, that their last job title was "whatever," and perhaps will confirm a salary of $xx,000 per year.) I doubt the CofS would do that much (if they even could. This is the same organization that never did declare me).

Anyway if you held several posts I'd pick representative ones, ideally those that showed you moved up in the organization. (for div 6: salesman, sales team lead, sales manager)
 
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