How is it possible to remember Past Lives? A Reply to the Sceptics

[ClamSource]

I thought we were going to get a reply to sceptics? So far all we've seen is the onus put back onto skeptics to prove that past lives don't exist. For a moment it sounded like the Scientologists had something more substantial than "you can't prove me wrong". It's like in Iraq where after the weapons inspectors have searched everywhere, Bush is claiming they're there, they just haven't been found yet.

Full track past lives? I can barely remember last Tuesday.

 

[uniquemand]

I thought we were going to get a reply to sceptics? So far all we've seen is the onus put back onto skeptics to prove that past lives don't exist. For a moment it sounded like the Scientologists had something more substantial than "you can't prove me wrong". It's like in Iraq where after the weapons inspectors have searched everywhere, Bush is claiming they're there, they just haven't been found yet.

Full track past lives? I can barely remember last Tuesday.

Memory is a trainable skill. There are lots of ways to enhance it, most having nothing to do with auditing at all. Use it or lose it. If you are letting search engines and other electronics to the exclusion of your onboard memory, your searching skills will improve while your memory degrades.

 

[ClamSource]

Memory is a trainable skill. There are lots of ways to enhance it, most having nothing to do with auditing at all. Use it or lose it. If you are letting search engines and other electronics to the exclusion of your onboard memory, your searching skills will improve while your memory degrades.

Sure. With training you can remember back to last Tuesday.

 

[Teanntás]

I am getting a feeling that I am dealing with a person (you) who has very little scientific education.

"What do you mean “You can’t put mathematics under a microscope? Math is the microscope. Math is the very language of science. As I have tried to teach you in a previous reply, all science can be explained in its basic form by physics and math it the lets you express physics."

"When you say “You will never be able to put past lives under a microscope” you really show that you don’t understand science at all. You can examine anything with science. We may not have discovered how to do that just yet or our science may not be good enough yet. However to say that you will never be able to examine past lives with a scientific method just shows that you really do not understand science."

"And when people do not work hard enough to understand science they turn to faith.

Then they think that if they can’t understand science then no one can."


You obviously believe in past lives (you may be or may not be correct) but you do so on faith."


So don’t call me a skeptic because I do not share your faith.


What do you mean “Scientists enjoy the journey. They don't sit back and wait for any final proofs” ? Scientists enjoy the journey and YES THEY DO WANT A FINAL PROOF.

Do you even read what you write before posting it?

As to what would constitute proof to me: How about 10,000 past life incidents where people told where they buried things and they found them to be true, or described places they never saw or never were and were correct. How about people remembering old languages that they used to speak.

How about 10,000 different people saying who they were and where they lived and matching it up to the census.

How about 10,000 cases where someone described their whole family, names dates etc.

Again this is not proof but at least this is a lot of evidence. That would impress me.

And I don’t mean 10 or 20 vague recollections. I want data in mass."


And if you can not do that yet then develop your past life regression methods to the point that you can show this kind of data. Until then all you have is faith.

Again I am not even saying that past lives are true or not I am just trying that there is no scientific proof.

From what I have seen you post you have a lot more passion than data.

You sound like a know it all who knows very little.

And the reason I am being so harsh is because this string is very offensively titled (to those of us who do understand science) “A reply to Skeptics”

"I am getting a feeling that I am dealing with a person (you) who has very little scientific education.

What do you mean “You can’t put mathematics under a microscope? Math is the microscope. Math is the very language of science. As I have tried to teach you in a previous reply, all science can be explained in its basic form by physics and math it the lets you express physics."

No it can't. The mind that examines and the means by which it examines (eg mathematics) cannot be explained by physics or placed under science's microscopes.

"When you say “You will never be able to put past lives under a microscope” you really show that you don’t understand science at all. You can examine anything with science. We may not have discovered how to do that just yet or our science may not be good enough yet. However to say that you will never be able to examine past lives with a scientific method just shows that you really do not understand science."

Of course, my condescending fellow, I did not say that science will never be able to examine past lives with a scientific method. It already is. I presume, great scientist, that some of your conclusions have been arrived at by means of the scientific method.

"And when people do not work hard enough to understand science they turn to faith.

Then they think that if they can’t understand science then no one can."

Generalisation !

"You obviously believe in past lives (you may be or may not be correct) but you do so on faith."

No, I believe data points in that direction. I'm very much a novice.

"So don’t call me a skeptic because I do not share your faith."

When did that happen?

"What do you mean “Scientists enjoy the journey. They don't sit back and wait for any final proofs” ? Scientists enjoy the journey and YES THEY DO WANT A FINAL PROOF.

Do you even read what you write before posting it?"

Did I say that scientists don't want final proofs? You really ought to pay attention!

"As to what would constitute proof to me: How about 10,000 past life incidents where people told where they buried things and they found them to be true, or described places they never saw or never were and were correct. How about people remembering old languages that they used to speak.

How about 10,000 different people saying who they were and where they lived and matching it up to the census.

How about 10,000 cases where someone described their whole family, names dates etc.

Again this is not proof but at least this is a lot of evidence. That would impress me.

And I don’t mean 10 or 20 vague recollections. I want data in mass."

You would want all his data (fair enough) but you are apparently unwilling to read the data that is available.

"And if you can not do that yet then develop your past life regression methods to the point that you can show this kind of data. Until then all you have is faith."

Again I am not even saying that past lives are true or not I am just trying that there is no scientific proof.

From what I have seen you post you have a lot more passion than data.

You sound like a know it all who knows very little. "

You are the one that is being dogmatic around here. Obviously if you say that I know very little about science ( true) you are positing yourself as one who does. And I am the know-it-all ?

And the reason I am being so harsh is because this string is very offensively titled (to those of us who do understand science) “A reply to Skeptics”
That offense you are taking is unreal and unscientific

 

[Reasonable]

That offense you are taking is unreal and unscientific

Your arguments are similar to a 4 year old saying "I'm rubber you're glue what you say bounces off me and sticks on to you?"

You make it very difficult for me not to judge you

Oh I think I just did...

 

[ClamSource]

 

[Teanntás]

Your arguments are similar to a 4 year old saying "I'm rubber you're glue what you say bounces off me and sticks on to you?"

You make it very difficult for me not to judge you

Oh I think I just did...

What you said is meaningless gibberish

That said I need to properly format the post to which you were nonresponding.

 

[Reasonable]

What you said is meaningless gibberish

That said I need to properly format the post to which you were nonresponding.

Talking to you is like putting lipstick on a pig. The pig doesn't understand why you are doing it, It doesn't get you anywhere and you piss off the pig.

That said I am sorry for pissing you off.

 

[Teanntás]

Talking to you is like putting lipstick on a pig. The pig doesn't understand why you are doing it, It doesn't get you anywhere and you piss off the pig.

That said I am sorry for pissing you off.

What am I doing talking to someone who goes around putting lipstick on pigs. What do you do after applying the lipstick? :wink2:

 

[Pip]

Subjective reality? Time is a lie?

Don't mess with Scientology kids. It will scramble your noodle.

There is an excellent article on both Subjective and Objective Reality at www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2007/09/subjective-reality-simplified/.

There are also many articles on Time is a Lie and Time is an Illusion, some even postulating it may not even exist.

 

[ClamSource]

There is an excellent article on both Subjective and Objective Reality at www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2007/09/subjective-reality-simplified/.

Any article on subjective reality is by definition non excellent. Call me a bigot, close minded, whatever, I won't be reading it. Life is too short to chase any such mystical lacunae.

There are also many articles on Time is a Lie and Time is an Illusion, some even postulating it may not even exist.

If time is a lie, that alone implies it exists in some sense. How could we ever distinguish between memory, and an impression of memory, albeit false?

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

I think the reason I want to recall my past lives is to find out a couple things:

A) did I live up to my former selves expectations of me in this life?

B) What was it I was trying to accomplish in an earlier life that I was going to do in this life but still can't remember what it was.

C) Did I make the same mistakes or did I make new ones?

D) Who was that blonde? A bit of history here - I sat down across from this blonde I'd never seen before and suddenly.... there was nothing else in the world. Not time, not sound, no room - just her face, neck, hair, eyes, smile - you get the picture. It was clear she reminded me of someone - who? And what did she mean to me and and and

I have conviction that I did live before - however, which I ran /encountered that were really real and which were not, I couldn't tell you. Damn dub in.

Mimsey

 

[Royal Prince Xenu]

I must disagree, again based on the data-density of the entire brain being insufficient to store a life-time of memories. The threshold of computers exceeding the capacity of the brain is not far from being crossed, and I don't think that those computers will demonstrate any more sentience than an IBM Selectric typewriter. (What a hideous thought! Computers that need therapists instead of programmers!)
I like WildKat's idea that past lives may be "communal" memories. I think that makes for an interesting discussion in its own right.

A neuro-scientist indeed will tell you tell you that you do not remember your whole life. Actually, you shouldn't need a scientist for that. I mean, what did you have for dinner Wednesday last week? How many days did it rain this summer? It's a fair chance you remember something that's important to you, like you first kiss, but what was the colour of your socks you had on that day?

Maybe you or I can't, but between these postings, there was a story on "60 Minutes - Australia" which was a splice of a u.s. story on people whose memories demonstrated what one would assume would be the full capabilities of a "Dianetic Clear". Multiple people who could remember every instance, dates, weather,.

-On 23 September, what color was Dad's tie?
-Red and white stripes.

-Describe the chinaware when we ate at the Bucket (that's Bookay) Residence?
-The Royal Dalton with the hand-painted Periwinkles.

-How many wet days in January 2000?
-15

The questions and answers I gave are fake, because I didn't see the whole story but, these are ordinary people living ordinary lives who clearly have memory capacity that far exceeds the physical capacity of the brain.

I therefore reasonably believe that every one of us is automatically storing every memory, and that it is the read/write interface that is faulty. As cited elsewhere, damage to the frontal lobes interrupts the encoding of memories.

If the fault is in the write circuitry, the memories may be misfiled and therefore appear inaccessible.

If the fault is in the read circuitry, then memories may seem that they don't exist because the read circuits can't find the right location.

If both read and write circuits are faulty, you end up with a Parliament.

Just because you or I can't do it is not evidence that no one can do it.

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

Any article on subjective reality is by definition non excellent. Call me a bigot, close minded, whatever, I won't be reading it. Life is too short to chase any such mystical lacunae.

IMO, the reverse is true; life is too short not to.

Look, we've spent 500 years or so since the time of Copernicus trying to master the objective world and, although we haven't done it completely, we've made huge strides as witness the fact more of us are now living longer, and in more comfort, than at any time in recorded history.

And yet, for many if not most people in the advanced nations, life still sucks. Look how many anti-depressants are prescribed every year in the UK and the US alone. We're simply not happy as a civilisation. We're always restless and wanting more.

People are tired from massive workloads, marriages by the million begun in hope break down in a welter of recriminations and lawyer's fees, and the world of media and entertainments becomes ever more superficial and obsessed with outward appearances. Young people fresh from school and college either can't find jobs or don't know what they want to do. There's a huge demand for the experience of rest, peace and tranquillity, and yet it gets harder and harder to find nowadays.

We're more connected (by the wonders of technology such as that which enables me to post this - and don't get me wrong, it is truly amazing), and yet many of us are lonely, especially the elderly who have often lost touch with or fallen out with their families.

So, things are very wrong on an inner level. Our civilisation, whilst it's mostly good at providing for us physically, doesn't fulfil the inner needs of a large proportion of us.

The solution to that, if it exists at all, has to be subjective - looking at one's inner space and either analysing it, trying to come to terms with it or heal it in some way. That's what the spiritual path (and all the various religious and spiritual teachings out there) is and are about.

 

[Royal Prince Xenu]

IMO, the reverse is true; life is too short not to.

Look, we've spent 500 years or so since the time of Copernicus trying to master the objective world and, although we haven't done it completely, we've made huge strides as witness the fact more of us are now living longer, and in more comfort, than at any time in recorded history.

And yet, for many if not most people in the advanced nations, life still sucks. Look how many anti-depressants are prescribed every year in the UK and the US alone. We're simply not happy as a civilisation. We're always restless and wanting more.

People are tired from massive workloads, marriages by the million begun in hope break down in a welter of recriminations and lawyer's fees, and the world of media and entertainments becomes ever more superficial and obsessed with outward appearances. Young people fresh from school and college either can't find jobs or don't know what they want to do. There's a huge demand for the experience of rest, peace and tranquillity, and yet it gets harder and harder to find nowadays.

We're more connected (by the wonders of technology such as that which enables me to post this - and don't get me wrong, it is truly amazing), and yet many of us are lonely, especially the elderly who have often lost touch with or fallen out with their families.

So, things are very wrong on an inner level. Our civilisation, whilst it's mostly good at providing for us physically, doesn't fulfil the inner needs of a large proportion of us.

The solution to that, if it exists at all, has to be subjective - looking at one's inner space and either analysing it, trying to come to terms with it or heal it in some way. That's what the spiritual path (and all the various religious and spiritual teachings out there) is and are about.

You have just summed up why I hate facebook! People become obsessed with how many "friends" they have, going for quantity instead of quality. Consumerism has not made us happy.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

We had quite a discuusion on Michael Newton. Let's take a look at Roger J. Woolger. Lots of material available online.

Roger J. Woolger, PhD, is a British-born Jungian analyst, past-lives therapist and creator of Integral Regression Therapy. Roger is internationally known as a pioneer in the area of transpersonal psychology. He holds degrees from Oxford and London Universities and the C.G. Jung Institute in Zurich, Switzerland. His book on past life therapy, Other Lives, Other Selves, is considered a definitive work in the field............

http://www.rogerwoolger.com/pages/septics.html (yes, it does read 'septics' )

http://www.rogerwoolger.com/pastlife.html

http://www.deepmemoryprocess.com/page26aa.html

Bumping the op.

The book Other Lives, Other Selves is an excellent reference source on regression therapy. The author is a psychologist with a background in Jungian Analysis and illuminates his approach to addressing the interests & needs of his clients from that perspective. This book is a 'must read' for anyone either curious about or with experience in the past life aspects of auditing.


Mark A. Baker

 

[BardoThodol]

As I have to comment in order to be blooded, this seems as good a place to start as any.

What is the mentality that demands disproving another's beliefs to be of paramount importance? Why is it so important for some to prove that past lives are impossible?

What motivates the speaker?

 

[Panda Termint]

Good questions!

 

[Div6]

As I have to comment in order to be blooded, this seems as good a place to start as any.

What is the mentality that demands disproving another's beliefs to be of paramount importance? Why is it so important for some to prove that past lives are impossible?

What motivates the speaker?

Inflated sense of self-importance?
Control?
Inability to confront their own mind\past\mis-deeds?

Could be any number of possibilities.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

As I have to comment in order to be blooded, this seems as good a place to start as any.

What is the mentality that demands disproving another's beliefs to be of paramount importance? Why is it so important for some to prove that past lives are impossible?

What motivates the speaker?

Motivation: I'm right, you're wrong.

This is of course the common motivation behind most acrimonious dispute.


Mark A. Baker