How many people went type III (ie. had a Psychotic Break) in your org?

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lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
Re: How many people went type III in your org?

I like these threads where people talk openly about their true experiences to get more understanding about truth beyond myths.

It enlightens!

Thanks.:)
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
Re: How many people went type III in your org?

I remember a woman at NY Org was assigned to be handing out flyers and body routing in Times square. Something happened which put her over the edge and she just started screaming and took off her clothing right on Broadway. Don't know whatever happened to her.
 

Gib

Crusader
Re: How many people went type III in your org?

I have read about the many people on OT VII and OT VIII who have gone totally insane. When I was on the ship doing a course, I became friends with many who were there to complete OT VIII and many were in rough shape -- nervous wrecks. I couldn't understand it, made note of it and added it to the many things that led to my leaving.

What do you think is the mechanism within the mind that makes this happen?
What would be the psychiatric diagnosis? Do you think that after this mental breakdown, that any of these people could be helped by psychiatry? Could meds help? What do you think?

I'll give you my opinion to this since I lived it as an observer for 3 years. And in reading all the posts after yours, but there is a missing piece of data peeps forget about.

When I say the following I am not validating the tech, just stating my observations.

When my partner was doing the OT7 auditing at home, she would come out of her solo sessions pretty happy and all so serene like, glowing you might say. Not always, but mostly. But in doing that, there was the stress of keeping it all secret since I was lower on the bridge, and the security of it all.

Then, here's the missing, off to Flag for the six month check. And that in itself was stressful just because of the finances to do it, credit cards, and how to pay for it eventually, this $20-30k per trip. And Remember this is 3 years of this routine. And it adds up, mentally as well as physically (make it go right with a job) and financially.

But, everytime my partner came home from Flag, OMG, what a nightmare, I had to walk & talk on eggshells, for any misstep in my part became a blow-up of magnitude, 3 years of this shit, every 6 months.

Those fuk'in sec checks are insanity.

I can't tell you how many times I was just gonna leave the relationship during that period.

It's been 3 years now and neither have picked up the cans and we are happy, living life, actually out of financial hot water and making goals.

oh, I forgot to mention, this round of OT7 was the second round of OT7, this a do over because of found lost tech. The first round did not include the 6 months sec checks.

PS: we also had the stress of IAS, WTH, Norcanon, Ideal Orgs regging.

PPS: add in the stress of being OT and the stress of exhibiting that so called state to the Church as well as to others, it's all enough to drive anybody nuts.
 

uncover

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: How many people went type III in your org?

I remember a woman at NY Org was assigned to be handing out flyers and body routing in Times square. Something happened which put her over the edge and she just started screaming and took off her clothing right on Broadway. Don't know whatever happened to her.
Don´t worry, the holy scriptures of Captain Bill (aka Astar [STRIKE]Parmesan[/STRIKE] Paramejgian) have an explanation:

http://www.galac-patra.org/sector9.html
Methods of Spiritual Control

The "devices" mentioned in the preceding paragraph are actually high frequency wave generators that can transmit intention over a distance. They are used to cause people to have "accidents", to think they are "crazy" and to restimulate people's banks. Following is a description of the most common types in "secret" use:

1. The Tepaphone - A high frequency wave generator that affects the mental masses around a person's body. It is used with intention behind it. It is portable and has a range of 50 to 100 meters. It can change valences and can be used to implant pictures and suggestions. It can be used very effectively in combination with hypnosis and drugs. It was invented in 1956 by Johannis Older. Its existence and use is kept a closely guarded secret by the planetary control game players.

2. The Eckhoff Telepathyzing Machine - Based on a patent by Nikolai Tesla and developed by Eckhoff, the telepathyzing machine has a larger range than the Tepaphone. It has however a similar effect and gives both mental and physical reactions. It is used to implant thoughts over a distance, again by influencing the masses and entities around a thetan and his body.

3. The High Frequency Flows Machine - Developed since 1971, another machine based on a Tesla patent, the idea here being to narrow the beam and concentrate it over a very long distance so that it can be effective for transmitting intention via satellite. Purpose: identical to the former two machines - that of implanting thoughts and suggestions over a distance.

......
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
Re: How many people went type III in your org?

In my own experience in routing out of the Sea Org: lack of sleep makes me irritable. As you can imagine, I had lots of lack of sleep at Flag, and it was making me cranky. Got into some fist fights with fellow sea org members. Finally decided it was time to go. My family got me a flight pre-paid, I head out to the airport at the start of my meal break, and am in the air before anybody realizes I'm gone.

In my preparations to leave, I go to a store and get myself a duffle bag for my stuff, and a knife. I had decided that anybody who tries to physically restrain me from leaving was going to get cut.

Two weeks later, I go to the local FOLO to do the standard routing off staff routing form, and the FOLO HCO lets me just do it without any problem. I think the reason they let me, was that the FOLO HCO at the time was these two petite women. So here I am, a fairly large guy, explaining to these two small women that the reason I left was that I was increasingly unable to control my violent rage, and that I decided I should leave before I killed someone.

For some reason, they saw no reason to give me any counter intention, and just let me do the routing form A to B.
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
Re: How many people went type III in your org?

I do think Psychiatric treatment and meds could help - the problem would be getting the person who went type 3 to agree to it and not to react to the "bogeyman" programming.

I have personally known two type threes who were "routed out" after going type 3 on OT3. Neither recovered and remained for the rest of their lives on the line between utterly insane and barely holding on the rest of the time. I mentioned that point about getting them to agree to psychiatric intervention being the biggest barrier - and in these two cases both people (they were both women) were taken to psychiatric hospitals when they went over the edge, they were treated with fairly heavy drug interventions and in one case restraints to stop the person harming themself. When they had calmed down and recovered enough they were released but would, of course, never continue to take their meds - with the active encouragement of their scientology families.

As to why people go psychotic on upper levels - well i have my theories about it.

People who make it to the upper levels are the most gullible of Scientologists (similar to the idea that the most gullible SO members are the ones who ended up in Int Management). In order to make it onto the OT levels one has to have invested an enormous amount of time and a LOT of money. They are incredibly vested in the idea that theY MUST be successful - they must show the people around them that they are indeed "worthy" and "upstat" and they have to prove to themselves that they have not made an awful mistake.

And now they are going to audit themselves endlessly. So not only are they responsible for their answers they are responsible for their auditing.

And they are ALWAYS at fault.

And if they forget that there are the endless sec checks on 7.

I think the vast majority of people who get onto 7 and 8 are severely damaged by what they have been through.

The sad part is that none of us can go back to what we were BEFORE we encountered this crap.


I think Mick is onto something here.

I worked at an AO for a long time.

Every Thursday night after stat evolution there was an Ad Council meeting before we did FP (Financial Planning). One of the things that was always done at AC was that the HAS put together a "WQSB" for Type III watches. What this means for the unanointed was that staff had to be named for a babysitting schedule for all the Type IIIs we had to deal with.

There were generally several that we had to deal with at a time. Most of the time they were public who either were on lines or had been on lines in the past. If they had ever done services/upper levels at an AO they were considered to be AO's problem even if they had been off the org's lines for a long time and the situation had come up at another location.

Sometimes the org had to deal with OT Sea Org staff who went Type III, even if they were from another org.

My point is: there were a fair amount of them, and we often had to deal with more than one or even several at one time.

Why did this happen to so many OTs? I don't know. I think what Mick has said here is probably true. The endless introversion that is Scientology auditing coupled with the expectation that they become these fantasy super beings...it's gotta fuck you up.

When you think about it, it's kind of amazing more of them don't totally go over the edge.
 

renegade

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: How many people went type III in your org?

Incredible! You get into Scn hoping it will make you more able and boom, you could go off your rocker.

Seriously, how is it that Scn is not regulated by some Health/Welfare laws?

You cannot even sell food if you don't pass a health inspection, go fix someone's broken window or stairs, without a contractor's license, etc.

It's no wonder you have to sign so many waivers when you enroll on a course or auditing! Should've been a red flag for me, but no it wasn't.:duh:
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
Re: How many people went type III in your org?

I think at its core, Scientology is essentially contrary to the nature and essence of human beings.

Amongst Hubbard's ten million words, datums and other esoterica there is one basic assertion--that the PC is a degraded being. That the PC was once (trillions of years ago) an enlightened supernatural being.

Therefore, Scientology indoctrination demands acceptance of the mythology of the horrid dwindling spiral condition that the PC is supposed to accept that they are now in. And there is relentless pressure on the PC reclaim their lost majesty by ascending the "Bridge".

The reason Scientologists so often break down mentally is that they are constantly being ordered and commanded to morph out of their species (homo sapiens) into a more evolved state (homo novus). Because that is an impossible feat, Scientologists go quite mad in the good faith process of trying.

To make it even simpler to understand, I think it is necessary to remove this equation entirely from the booby-trap laden "tech" or self-improvement techniques. Let's use a parallel to get clarity:
* Put a chimpanzee into a room.
* Audit them daily, train them daily.
* Constantly brief them in lectures about their original state (human) and how they became a monkey because of galactic catastrophes that happened hundreds of millions of years ago.
* Reward the chimp when they successfully mimic the behavior of their human caretakers.
* Punish the chimp each and every time they do not successfully ascend above their lowly simian state to become a homo sapiens.
* If the chimps do not begin losing their profuse body hair and speaking intelligibly and reading, send them to ethics because the tech is not working.
* If the chimp complains or refuses to continue the transformational program to make them human, declare them a SC (Suppressive Chimp) and kick them out.​


After a little bit of this treatment, the chimpanzee will begin to feel and act psychotic. Guaranteed you'll have one psychotic chimp if you keep "salvaging" that poor little monkey.

Welcome to Scientology.

A great comparative analogy, HH. :thumbsup:

I think $cientology is a Cult of Perfectionism.

"Perfectionists strain compulsively and unceasingly toward unobtainable goals, and measure their self-worth by productivity and accomplishment.[4] Pressuring oneself to achieve unrealistic goals inevitably sets the person up for disappointment. Perfectionists tend to be harsh critics of themselves when they fail to meet their standards."
 
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JustSheila

Crusader
Re: How many people went type III in your org?

I like your point, too, HH. :thumbsup:

When parrots are kept from flying, grouping with other parrots and doing other natural things and forced to be a human pet, they self-mutilate, pluck their feathers, hurt themselves.

Just sayin'
 

Sindy

Crusader
Re: How many people went type III in your org?

Nervous wrecks. You are describing Acute Stress Disorder. Anxiety can intensify and become very consuming, it can grow from specific fears to more and more generalized ones until one has a neurotic condition, or a psychotic break that can even trigger a schizophrenic condition. Schizophrenia itself is a sort of mental protective mechanism. But here's some info on Acute Stress Disorder:


http://psychcentral.com/disorders/acute-stress-disorder-symptoms/

Yes. The actual behavior exhibited was a continual agitated state, flighty eye contact and cowed (so each time I saw the person, at the restaurants, on breaks, in the lounge, on the deck, etc). As I recall, there was only one who seemed bright and happy, the rest had various levels of this agitation or unhappiness and just overall stress. They also seemed under quite a lot of stress to come up with their completion speeches. What a load of crap.

Speaking of those speeches, I found them lackluster and of no consequence, stating nothing that I hadn't already experienced on the lower lever stuff. The whole experience was jarring to me. These people were not calm and "winning". This was the very top of the Bridge, out on the beautiful ocean on a cruise ship. Wow!

One of these people (who I found to be the most agitated) has already left and spoken out so maybe the more cognitive dissonance, the greater the agitation. I don't know.
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Re: How many people went type III in your org?

I think at its core, Scientology is essentially contrary to the nature and essence of human beings.

Amongst Hubbard's ten million words, datums and other esoterica there is one basic assertion--that the PC is a degraded being. That the PC was once (trillions of years ago) an enlightened supernatural being.

Therefore, Scientology indoctrination demands acceptance of the mythology of the horrid dwindling spiral condition that the PC is supposed to accept that they are now in. And there is relentless pressure on the PC reclaim their lost majesty by ascending the "Bridge".

The reason Scientologists so often break down mentally is that they are constantly being ordered and commanded to morph out of their species (homo sapiens) into a more evolved state (homo novus). Because that is an impossible feat, Scientologists go quite mad in the good faith process of trying.

To make it even simpler to understand, I think it is necessary to remove this equation entirely from the booby-trap laden "tech" or self-improvement techniques. Let's use a parallel to get clarity:
* Put a chimpanzee into a room.
* Audit them daily, train them daily.
* Constantly brief them in lectures about their original state (human) and how they became a monkey because of galactic catastrophes that happened hundreds of millions of years ago.
* Reward the chimp when they successfully mimic the behavior of their human caretakers.
* Punish the chimp each and every time they do not successfully ascend above their lowly simian state to become a homo sapiens.
* If the chimps do not begin losing their profuse body hair and speaking intelligibly and reading, send them to ethics because the tech is not working.
* If the chimp complains or refuses to continue the transformational program to make them human, declare them a SC (Suppressive Chimp) and kick them out.


After a little bit of this treatment, the chimpanzee will begin to feel and act psychotic. Guaranteed you'll have one psychotic chimp if you keep "salvaging" that poor little monkey.

Welcome to Scientology.


HH, seems that you may have blown the cover on a secret CoS program that Hubbard used to get so many words written every day.

chimp_zps567534fa.jpg
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Re: How many people went type III in your org?

I like your point, too, HH. :thumbsup:

When parrots are kept from flying, grouping with other parrots and doing other natural things and forced to be a human pet, they self-mutilate, pluck their feathers, hurt themselves.

Just sayin'


Didn't know that!

That would make a fascinating study, to research and codify the psychological and physiological REACTIONS that various animal species have when they are forced (by circumstance or external influence) to violate their genetic predispositions, patterns of behavior and reflexive responses.

Something terrible happens when a human is forced to try to become something other than what they are (humans) into something it is impossible for them to become (homo novus).

Terrorizing someone by forcing them to try again and again to do an impossible task--while stealing all their money, threatening to disconnect their family/friends if they give up trying and convincing them that they are the "only one" that can't do it.

That's a recipe to make a being crack. For some duration they are able to maintain the frozen grinning & winning "mock up". But as the process wears on them and they become hopeless, exhausted and upset about having to always appear VGIs, they eventually go insane.

Some blow before they go fully insane. But they are partially nuts and it takes some time to get rid of the curse of being around Hubbard's cult.
 
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AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
Re: How many people went type III in your org?

There is a previous thread on ESMB started by Feral back in 2008 which may shed some light on the topic of this thread. It's called

Psychotic breaks beginning here
As I separated from Scientology I reviewed for the first time how many people I have known to have type III episodes.

Over my life, in and out of the church I have known several non- scilons who have had mental illnesses.

I have also known several scilons, and have even been on 'baby watch' to relieve SO and staff. These were far more spectacular than the non-scilon ones, which were characterized by depression and an inability to cope. The scilons went type three properly, were pursued by prince Charles or were about to be picked up by aliens or in one case was being monitored and controlled by .... Marcabians. Most were 'OTs'

They were also more violent in some cases. Personally I know more than six. This is a damning situation for a science cum mental tech cum religious philosophy whose first book was called "Dianetics the Modern Science of Mental Health".

So, do scilons go type III more or less often than non-scilons?

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?6874-Psychotic-breaks

This is an interesting short article that may also be of interest
What Really is a "Psychotic Break with Reality"?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2012/08/10/what-really-is-a-psychotic-break-with-reality/
 
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Sindy

Crusader
Re: How many people went type III in your org?

There is a previous thread on ESMB started by Feral back in 2008 which may shed some light on the topic of this thread. It's called

Psychotic breaks beginning here



This is an interesting short article that may also be of interest
What Really is a "Psychotic Break with Reality"?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2012/08/10/what-really-is-a-psychotic-break-with-reality/

Thanks Mary. Do you have a link to this thread? I suck at the search function here.

Oops! I see all I have to do is click Feral's name there and it takes me to thread. :)
 

Gib

Crusader
Re: How many people went type III in your org?

There is a previous thread on ESMB started by Feral back in 2008 which may shed some light on the topic of this thread. It's called

Psychotic breaks beginning here



This is an interesting short article that may also be of interest
What Really is a "Psychotic Break with Reality"?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2012/08/10/what-really-is-a-psychotic-break-with-reality/

Isn't it interesting that the tech of scientology is about the auditor not evaluating for the pc,

but yet as one learns about hubbard tech,

he evaluates a pc with his own labels,

ie type III, grade 0. grade 1, grade 2, grade 3, grade 4, clear, ot1, ot 2, etc

Hey, lets not forget some peoples aberrations don't go away until they are way up the bridge,

and if you made it to ot8, why don't worry, there are some 15 levels above ot8 only in note form ready to be released when lots more people make it up the bridge (pay more money)

:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

That Hubbard, sure as hell pulled a fast one on those psychs. LOL
 

JustSheila

Crusader
Re: How many people went type III in your org?

Didn't know that!

That would make a fascinating study, to research and codify the psychological and physiological REACTIONS that various animal species have when they are forced (by circumstance or external influence) to violate their genetic predispositions, patterns of behavior and reflexive responses.

Something terrible happens when a human is forced to try to become something other than they are into something it is impossible for them to become (homo novus).

Terrorizing someone by forcing them to try again and again to do an impossible task--while stealing all their money, threatening to disconnect their family/friends if they give up trying and convincing them that they are the "only one" that can't do it.

That's a recipe to make a being crack. For some duration they are able to maintain the frozen grinning & winning "mock up". But as the process wears on them and they become hopeless, exhausted and upset about having to always appear VGIs, they eventually go insane.

Some blow before they go fully insane. But they are partially nuts and it takes some time to get rid of the curse of being around Hubbard's cult.

:yes: Thousands of studies have been done on the health of wild animals forced to live in unnatural environments. Zoo studies, and efforts to save threatened species and return them to their natural environments without loss of instincts.

It took decades for animals to procreate in zoos, because the environment is so unnatural. Despite great pains in some zoos to correct this, very few of their animals procreate and their young usually die.

The mothers often don't know how to feed the young.

Animals can suddenly turn on their trainers, handlers and keepers and attack them. They're never really tamed. Maybe they just wait for an opportunity, maybe they have a sort of psychotic break, but most eventually have moments of rage and attack those who would entrap them, pervert them, humanize them and change their natures, whether in or out of zoos. All those stories of people living in the wild with bears, lions or with dangerous ocean life, or even with geese - they were eventually attacked. Even the best, and most died. Steve Irwin. Timothy Treadwell, to name a couple more famous people. George Adamson ("Born Free") was an exception, but his intention was entirely different. Rather than dominating, capturing and training or humanizing animals, he rehabilitated lions to the wild. RIP George Adamson, who truly understood that no species is happy when it is forced to be or live in any other way than nature designed. The lions seemed to understand and appreciate what he was doing and never turned on him. George Adamson was loved so much by the lions that a mother lion let him sleep and play with her cubs. http://scribol.com/anthropology-and-history/the-man-that-lived-with-lions

But the captured ones? The circus ones? The zoo animals? Many just mope, their fur loses their gloss, they don't preen or clean or care for themselves. They don't try to find a mate or impress their mate, don't care about their appearance, lose interest, get apathetic.

Dogs (and sometimes cats) are an exception, but what happens to a dog who can't get out daily for a walk to spread his scent and do doggie things? Even man's best friend knows he's not a man, so you'd better let him be what he's meant to be - even dogs can turn on owners.
 

renegade

Silver Meritorious Patron
Re: How many people went type III in your org?

Okay, so how many people were accepted back on auditing lines after their psychotic breaks?

I know of a few that were shunned and treated badly.
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
Re: How many people went type III in your org?

Some I know were never threw out since they got money to buy ''materials'' in case they were not accepted yet for processing - the training route was still available.

* one thing is important to know is that there is a line to petition when you are refused $cientology services for psychiatric condition or being illegal pc. Long time ago it was much difficult to get petition accepted - but then it became more easy - Orgs desperately needs GI.:unsure:
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
Re: How many people went type III in your org?

:yes: Thousands of studies have been done on the health of wild animals forced to live in unnatural environments. Zoo studies, and efforts to save threatened species and return them to their natural environments without loss of instincts.

It took decades for animals to procreate in zoos, because the environment is so unnatural. Despite great pains in some zoos to correct this, very few of their animals procreate and their young usually die.

The mothers often don't know how to feed the young.

Animals can suddenly turn on their trainers, handlers and keepers and attack them. They're never really tamed. Maybe they just wait for an opportunity, maybe they have a sort of psychotic break, but most eventually have moments of rage and attack those who would entrap them, pervert them, humanize them and change their natures, whether in or out of zoos. All those stories of people living in the wild with bears, lions or with dangerous ocean life, or even with geese - they were eventually attacked. Even the best, and most died. Steve Irwin. Timothy Treadwell, to name a couple more famous people. George Adamson ("Born Free") was an exception, but his intention was entirely different. Rather than dominating, capturing and training or humanizing animals, he rehabilitated lions to the wild. RIP George Adamson, who truly understood that no species is happy when it is forced to be or live in any other way than nature designed. The lions seemed to understand and appreciate what he was doing and never turned on him. George Adamson was loved so much by the lions that a mother lion let him sleep and play with her cubs. http://scribol.com/anthropology-and-history/the-man-that-lived-with-lions

But the captured ones? The circus ones? The zoo animals? Many just mope, their fur loses their gloss, they don't preen or clean or care for themselves. They don't try to find a mate or impress their mate, don't care about their appearance, lose interest, get apathetic.

Dogs (and sometimes cats) are an exception, but what happens to a dog who can't get out daily for a walk to spread his scent and do doggie things? Even man's best friend knows he's not a man, so you'd better let him be what he's meant to be - even dogs can turn on owners.

Excellent post! The over-the-edge behaviors seen from people in $cientology are in my opinion the result of cultist abusive trauma resulting in natural coping Defense Mechanisms - full article in link used to protect themselves.

We are all hardwired for mental-emotional overload from overwhelming traumatic injuries so we can maintain some form of functionality under severe duress. If there's any place where natural defensive coping mechanisms are prevalent it's going to be in a cult.
 
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