How much does ESMB cost Scientology?

riptide

Patron with Honors
This evening I was watching a special on Wal Mart. During an interview segment it was discussed that the cost was tabulated when a disgruntled customer walks out the door never to return. $215,000 over the course of a lifetime.

How many people in Scientology spend over $300,000 in the course of their lifetime to the Scientology cult? Has anyone tabulated how many NEW people it takes to get ONE long term cult member who lays down the big bucks?

Has there been a poll taken already that reflects the effect that ESMB had in directly leading to a decision to leave?

I wonder if DM now see's dollars evaporating every time he reads a critical article or TV special on Scientology. Isn't there something written by Hubbard that the attacks escalate in direct proportion to the amount of good they are doing?

Anyway, It must be huge in terms of lost income/new people diverted away. Explains the behavior of the church wringing every dollar they can for donations with no service delivered. The never ending vicious cycle driving more and more people out the door.

I wonder if DM gets it?
 

Thrak

Gold Meritorious Patron
He is incapable of getting it. He'll just keep finding more "whys" which turns into more shit for the sheep to buy.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
This forum, alt.religion.scientology and OCMB have all helped people leave CofS. In many cases, the help came in the form of information that helped the person make his or her decision.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Isn't there something written by Hubbard that the attacks escalate in direct proportion to the amount of good they are doing?

Interesting question. Sure, he said that Scn gets attacked because it is expanding and because it works so perfectly well. Hey, that's GOOD!

Sure, he also said that Scn only gets attacked because of "no results". Hey, that's BAD!

Sure, when an area is in chaos (current CoS public relations and stats) it is because it is putting order into the confusion and confusion is blowing off. Hey, that's GOOD!

Sure, when an area is in chaos (current CoS public relations and stats) it is because policy is not known and followed and ethics is out and SP's are suppressing, and and and and and......Hey, that's BAD!

Hey whatever it is, that's GOOD AND BAD!!! What???

If life was a test with multiple-answer questions, Scientology has checked off ALL of the answers. It is never wrong! (hint: when anyone bothers to look at Scn's "answer sheet" they will instantly realize that Scn is a master cheater)

Whatever Scn tells me it is...that's what it is. I don't need to worry or think about it myself, so I got no worries! Hey, not bad! Errr, I mean not good, errr...

whatever they tell me.
 
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Thrak

Gold Meritorious Patron


Interesting question. Sure, he said that Scn gets attacked because it is expanding and because it works so perfectly well. Hey, that's GOOD!

Sure, he also said that Scn only gets attacked because of "no results". Hey, that's BAD!

Sure, when an area is in chaos (current CoS public relations and stats) it is because it is putting order into the confusion and confusion is blowing off. Hey, that's GOOD!

Sure, when an area is in chaos (current CoS public relations and stats) it is because policy is not known and followed and ethics is out and SP's are suppressing, and and and and and......Hey, that's BAD!

Hey whatever it is, that's GOOD AND BAD!!! What???

If life was a test with multiple-answer questions, Scientology has checked off ALL of the answers. It is never wrong!

Whatever Scn tells me it is, IS what it is. I don't need to worry or think about it myself, so I got no worries! Hey, not bad! Errr, I mean not good, errr...

whatever they tell me.

Hey wait a minute. You're not supposed to actually remember what Hubturd said. Its ethics for you bucko!
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Hey wait a minute. You're not supposed to actually remember what Hubturd said. Its ethics for you bucko![/QUOTE
]

I have to go to Ethics? I will be bypassed and handled? Whoa, that's BAD!

Wait!

I get to go to Ethics? I will bypass and handle. Wow, that's GOOD!

How did Ron ever figure out this insidiously complicated, subtle trap? It's way beyond me!

Hip Hip Hooray!
 

Feral

Rogue male
This evening I was watching a special on Wal Mart. During an interview segment it was discussed that the cost was tabulated when a disgruntled customer walks out the door never to return. $215,000 over the course of a lifetime.

How many people in Scientology spend over $300,000 in the course of their lifetime to the Scientology cult? Has anyone tabulated how many NEW people it takes to get ONE long term cult member who lays down the big bucks?

Has there been a poll taken already that reflects the effect that ESMB had in directly leading to a decision to leave?

I wonder if DM now see's dollars evaporating every time he reads a critical article or TV special on Scientology. Isn't there something written by Hubbard that the attacks escalate in direct proportion to the amount of good they are doing?

Anyway, It must be huge in terms of lost income/new people diverted away. Explains the behavior of the church wringing every dollar they can for donations with no service delivered. The never ending vicious cycle driving more and more people out the door.

I wonder if DM gets it?

When I left and found out how the IAS money had been mis used, I asked for our two patrons back. At the time I implied in writing that repaying us could end the hostilities.

They refused to repay them. So far according to your numbers, assuming a clam spends as much in the church as a wal mart customer does over their life (LOL), we have cost them over two million, and they'll still have to give us the IAS money back.

I'm not sorry as 'disappearing silently' irked me more than a little.

It just goes to show how smart they are. Scientology sure loves it's opponents, why else would it keep creating them?
 

Reasonable

Silver Meritorious Patron
While i am sure that sites like this and any negative press affects them i wonder why this site has very few new members?

I look every day for new people and new stories but I don't see many. It seems like the same old people.

while I'm sure it makes a difference, is it making a big difference?

It seems to me that people get into Scientology when they have a big win which is likely on lower bridge. Then they believe that since that worked everything else will work. Pretty soon they get brainwashed into not looking and you won't see them here until many years later when they have been cut off from their family.
 

scooter

Gold Meritorious Patron
Reasonable, you gotta remember that a lot of those "out" don't come and post here but just get on with their lives.

Even many of those lurking here don't post their stories for various reasons - I'd say at least 80% of lurkers fall into this category.

Every time there's an injustice or a betrayal by the cult, the victim moves that little bit closer to looking and then leaving.

So there's a quiet avalanche going on in terms of defections - many still go to events etc. so as to "keep up appearances" but they are still very much "out" nevertheless.

They just don't advertise.

And OSA know this and quietly panic and pray that this doesn't become BPI amongst the few remaining faithful.

Many have contacted me (and others on this board) privately and requested that they remain anonymous.

Some day when it's safe, you'll hear their stories, but for now the Cult still has that fear held over them.
 

Tim Skog

Silver Meritorious Patron
If the Cof$ could figure out what ESMB costs them in lost revenue, perhaps they might sue us for damages.:D :D :D
 
While i am sure that sites like this and any negative press affects them i wonder why this site has very few new members?

I look every day for new people and new stories but I don't see many. It seems like the same old people.

while I'm sure it makes a difference, is it making a big difference?

It seems to me that people get into Scientology when they have a big win which is likely on lower bridge. Then they believe that since that worked everything else will work. Pretty soon they get brainwashed into not looking and you won't see them here until many years later when they have been cut off from their family.

Oh It must be working. I found out about 2 new sites today. Ask your OT friends how much they spend on scientology and you will get an idea of how much cash the COS is losing.
 

Carmel

Crusader
<snip>
Has there been a poll taken already that reflects the effect that ESMB had in directly leading to a decision to leave?
<snip>
I don't know about any poll, but the info on the net has the been the clincher for many to get out. For the several hundred who we know, or know of, (who have gotten out in the last 12 months), the info on ESMB has been the most real, and then they've gone on from there.

Of course in real terms, if it wasn't as f'cked up as what it is within the ranks, these guys wouldn't be feeling the angst they do and wouldn't be looking for answers in the first place. It's the CofS itself that is really the cause of their own 'losses'.

<snip>
I look every day for new people and new stories but I don't see many. It seems like the same old people.

while I'm sure it makes a difference, is it making a big difference?
<snip>
:hmm: - If ya look at the sub forum "My story from inside Scientology", you'd see a different picture.

There is no doubt that ESMB is making a difference, but that difference has been communicated several times on other threads, so I'll leave it at that.
 

RogerB

Crusader
Scooter and Carmel Are Correct

Reasonable, you gotta remember that a lot of those "out" don't come and post here but just get on with their lives.

Even many of those lurking here don't post their stories for various reasons - I'd say at least 80% of lurkers fall into this category.

Every time there's an injustice or a betrayal by the cult, the victim moves that little bit closer to looking and then leaving.

So there's a quiet avalanche going on in terms of defections - many still go to events etc. so as to "keep up appearances" but they are still very much "out" nevertheless.

They just don't advertise.

And OSA know this and quietly panic and pray that this doesn't become BPI amongst the few remaining faithful.

Many have contacted me (and others on this board) privately and requested that they remain anonymous.

Some day when it's safe, you'll hear their stories, but for now the Cult still has that fear held over them.

I don't know about any poll, but the info on the net has the been the clincher for many to get out. For the several hundred who we know, or know of, (who have gotten out in the last 12 months), the info on ESMB has been the most real, and then they've gone on from there.

Of course in real terms, if it wasn't as f'cked up as what it is within the ranks, these guys wouldn't be feeling the angst they do and wouldn't be looking for answers in the first place. It's the CofS itself that is really the cause of their own 'losses'.


:hmm: - If ya look at the sub forum "My story from inside Scientology", you'd see a different picture.

There is no doubt that ESMB is making a difference, but that difference has been communicated several times on other threads, so I'll leave it at that.

Scooter and Carmel are correct.

I was recently contacted by two folks for help as a result of reading my posts here. They are still maintaining their ostensible "good standing" as much of their business activity has Scn connections . . . . but they are pissed at the Church of $cn and its questionable results (and one of them is up in the OT levels above 3).

They are so pleased with what they have seen here they are telling others they know who are pissed with the current church scene.

RogerB
 

Tiger Lily

Gold Meritorious Patron
I think that this board also "solidifies" peoples' decision to get out and makes them immune to "recovery" efforts.

When I came here I was afraid to answer the phone because I was afraid that person would say the "right" thing and talk me into going back. When the caller ID had a Scientology number, I would get nervous, sick and scared. At that time I knew there was "something wrong" but still thought it was current management or something and that if things changed the glorious bridge would be there to save this sector of the universe.

By reading and posting here I've been able to take advantage of the experiences of others and their knowledge to gain a broad perspective and realization that I really am not a Scientologist. There is no way in hell anyone will be able to talk me into "repair auditing" or another PTS/SP course or buying another tape set. I am gone for good. This board has made me invulnerable to any kind of "handling".

So it's not just good for getting people out, but for keeping them out. I think that any future attempts on their part to "handle the ARC broken field" will fail. Nobody could read the stories here and want that for themselves or their families.

So add that to the equation. ESMB has greatly reduced "second chances" for the CofS. Once people blow, they really are gone now.

-TL
 

wiseman_of_the_watchtower

Patron with Honors
Nothing costs Scn more money then the backfiring financial demands they put on their members.

Nothing costs the Sea Org more members then their efforts to keep them.

Nothing is more effective then living it and leaving it.

But ESMB sure helps to summarize what the hell happened in there...
 

Gadfly

Crusader
I know a few people who left Scientology SOLELY because of looking at and getting involved with various message boards about Scientology on the Internet. They started out very hesitant, thought that all the criticism MUST be lies (due to their indoctrination), gently looked, stuck around, came to alter their fixed overly-one-sided pro-Scientology viewpoint as a result, and BOTH LEFT!!!!!:thumbsup:

I suspect that this happens with Church members more than rarely. The Internet is something that Hubbard never foresaw and never worked out "solutions for". As others have said, secrecy is a key to maintaining the charade of Scientology control, and that secrecy has greatly weakened as a result of the Internet.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
I think that this board also "solidifies" peoples' decision to get out and makes them immune to "recovery" efforts.

When I came here I was afraid to answer the phone because I was afraid that person would say the "right" thing and talk me into going back. When the caller ID had a Scientology number, I would get nervous, sick and scared. At that time I knew there was "something wrong" but still thought it was current management or something and that if things changed the glorious bridge would be there to save this sector of the universe.

By reading and posting here I've been able to take advantage of the experiences of others and their knowledge to gain a broad perspective and realization that I really am not a Scientologist. There is no way in hell anyone will be able to talk me into "repair auditing" or another PTS/SP course or buying another tape set. I am gone for good. This board has made me invulnerable to any kind of "handling".

So it's not just good for getting people out, but for keeping them out. I think that any future attempts on their part to "handle the ARC broken field" will fail. Nobody could read the stories here and want that for themselves or their families.

So add that to the equation. ESMB has greatly reduced "second chances" for the CofS. Once people blow, they really are gone now.

-TL

These are great points. While in the Church you are not allowed to discuss anything that is at all questioning, unsure, or even approaching criticism. The effective Scientology ban on talking freely and negatively about anything having to do with Hubbard or the Church acts to isolate each person. The illusion is that "we are a group", but the truth is that due to the self-inflicted acceptance of control in many forms, each member is really quite isolated, since he or she can ONLY express pro-group sentiments.

But, I have no doubt that many Church members do think about negative aspects that they notice. These discussion boards finally give the very isolated member a chance to, pretty much for the first time, actually FREELY TALK ABOUT these things he or she has noticed - but has been unable to communicate about previously.

The "no verbal data" rule, and the "all criticism is bad and indicates overts and withholds" axiom, act to stifle any free communication within the Scientology environment. The ONLY place any Church member can voice disagreement or discomfort with some aspect of Scientology is in session with an auditor, to a word clearer, or in Qual. And, in each of those cases you will be handled to no longer have those divergent views. If you do mention anything even slightly critical, regardless of how true and correct your sttatement might be (truth is irrelevant in the Church environment), you will quickly end up in ethics, often getting screamed at. Fellow members have been thoroughly indoctrinated to write KRs on other Church members who dispaly ANY undesirable behavior. Critical views are quickly caught through the very well designed "member monitoring system" inherent in organized Scientology. Out-of-sync ideas don't go long undetected within the rigid official Scientology environment.

For me, as I am sure with so many other members, when I was still involved with the Church of Scientology I simply learned to shut my mouth, to not make waves, and to "play the game as I understood the rules". But, for me, I always disliked that a "path to truth" should involve SO MUCH of a requirement for inner silencing, hiding of the truth, and a complete block on the free expression of undesirable observations and views.

These discussion boards, for the first time, allow any Church member or ex-member, to finally vent and let out what he or she saw, but was unable to previously express. THAT can often feel VERY GOOD!:happydance:

The ability to communicate these things also builds up ones strength to resist their future shenanignas. You can fully come to realize, as stated above by Tiger Lily, that you really do NOT any longer fully align with what is called a "Scientologist". Yes, you may like some aspects of Hubbard's data, but you are finally free to look with care and discretion at BOTH sides. You were never allowed to admit there could even BE AN OTHER SIDE while active in the Church of Scientology.
 

FinallyFree

Gold Meritorious Patron
Anyway, It must be huge in terms of lost income/new people diverted away. Explains the behavior of the church wringing every dollar they can for donations with no service delivered. The never ending vicious cycle driving more and more people out the door.

I wonder if DM gets it?

He will never get it and by his own decision. The only time delivery of service is pushed from Management is when the income is down. This is due to hubbard’s theory that delivery of service will result in more income.

With all of the money DM has pushed to get donated for the Super Power building they could have completed construction (HOW many times over is my question). They haven’t. Super Power isn’t being delivered to the public. Why complete that building? It’s one of DM’s cash cows. Watch actions. All that is cared about is money. Money. Money. Money.
 

riptide

Patron with Honors
These are great points. While in the Church you are not allowed to discuss anything that is at all questioning, unsure, or even approaching criticism. The effective Scientology ban on talking freely and negatively about anything having to do with Hubbard or the Church acts to isolate each person. The illusion is that "we are a group", but the truth is that due to the self-inflicted acceptance of control in many forms, each member is really quite isolated, since he or she can ONLY express pro-group sentiments.

Well put. I had a conversation with a pal who has been on the fence (would never admit to it of course) and one point this person made was "if you can't vote with your mouth (freely express) you can still vote with your feet" (not attend events, etc.)

I recall the D of T telling me once that attending events was important, and that the names of people who did were reported uplines. This gal pal of mine who shall remain nameless, also receives unannounced "visits" to her door by various church members, who come in the evening and knock on her door. SO, IAS staffers.

Creepy.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Many forums and websites help reduce scientologies income.

Some years ago, maybe 4 or 5, OSA had been attacking Tommy Thompson
who has been very active travelling around the world auditing and training all
parts of the bridge. He surmised, and I presume correctly, that he had cost the COS millions of Dollars. He's still at it. :)
 
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