How to deprogram a scientologist.

Thetaman

Patron
Ok so I am an ex sciguy who has not announced my suppresiveness.

For quite some time I have mulled in my mind the thoughts of "false data stripping" my family and letting them in on what's really going on.

I'm posting here as a way to bounce some ideas around about how you could actually sit a scientologist down and basically turn them into a suppressive person. (show them what's really going on)

First couple of ideas I have had, I'll list out. Please feel free to add more and I will as well as more come into my head.

It is important to note that any Scientologist who actually calls themself a Scientologist TRULY believes (knows) that they have, and were, and will be helped by Scientology. I'm fact they believe it's their spiritual freedom at stake.
In my opinion they probably actually were helped by some aspects found inside Scientology
The second you say Scientology is wrong, you might as well go yell at an ashtray.
If you are still connected with practicing Scientologists but you yourself have come to find the real truth, then you are in an interesting dilemma, the things you learned in Scientology now forces you to want to take responsibility, but this whole disconnection thing is a serious threat.
I have come to the conclusion that degrading Scientology in any way would end the conversation.
I think it would be successful if you used Scientology to achieve deprogramming of a Scientologist.
Consider you have a family member who is in the church who has completed their grades or higher. considering that fact there is no communication they could receive that could adversely effect them. Preface the conversation with this fact. Reinforce their beliefs in Scientology.
Perhaps you could even "rehab" a win by getting them to tell you about it. Give them a solid acknowledgment that lets them know that you agree with their win and you think it's great.
Let them know you agree with their decision to be a Scientologist. Because honestly, it is their right to participate in any group that they wish to do so.
Maybe even preface the conversation with how the comm cycle works and that communication is the universal solvent.

Another no-no in this conversation would be the degradation of L.R.H. most people who leave the church usually leave with the idea that the tech is perfect and L.R.H. was a guru. I thought this Even 5 years after I stopped heavily practicing Scientology but was still considering myself a Scientologist

I think making a statement to the effect of, there is something seriously wrong with the church might be a good entry point.

Give me your ideas about what you would say and how you would get a scientologist to actually listen to what you had to say.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Hi Thetaman. Maybe this collection of ideas and information, and links, will be of some use.


Using the old glue analogy, IMO, Scientology, as designed by its founder, consists of two main aspects: the solvent (truths, abreaction/catharsis/"key-out" etc.), and the lacquer (the sea of words, half truths, falsehoods, smoke and mirrors, gimmicks, tricks, manipulation, etc.) In the proper ratio, these combine to make a mind-glue that sticks a person to Scientology.

Currently, Miscavige has screwed up the ratio of solvent and lacquer with too much lacquer and not enough solvent. (Without solvent, glue doesn't "work.")


Conveying the idea that there is both a positive outer display coating which is ultimately subordinate, and also a negative hidden core which is ultimately dominant, can be difficult. It seems that the laws of nature, the laws of the human mind, and perhaps the laws of the human nervous system make recognizing both aspects difficult.

Scientology is a secretive and manipulative doctrine with a truth-coating. The truth-coating is displayed while the negatives are often hidden or disguised; or, when they no longer can be denied, are rationalized or "spun."

The "Scientology package" is both positive and negative. Scientology is a carefully crafted (by its founder) mix of "Black Scientology" and "White Scientology," resulting in Scientology.


Currently, about as far as "Independent" Scientologists can venture is to assert that corporate Scientology's current leader, David Miscavige, uses "Black Scientology." Beyond that, things become foggy for them.

________


Messiah or Madman?


The book L. Ron Hubbard, Messiah or Madman? has been published in three English language editions, each further revised and updated
(1987, 1992, and 1996.) There is also a hardbound Russian language edition that became available in 2005.

Unlike most other books on Scientology, 'Messiah or Madman?' examines both the "positives" and "negatives" of the subject. Part of its purpose was to inoculate others from the tricks and abuses of Scientology.

An excerpt from the book flap for the 464 page 1996 edition:


"I have high hopes of smashing my name
into history so violently that it will take a
legendary form even if all the books are
destroyed. That goal is the real goal as far as
I am concerned. Things which stand too
consistently in my way make me nervous.
It's a pretty big job. In a hundred years
Roosevelt will have been forgotten - which
gives some idea of the magnitude of my
attempt. And all this boils and froths inside
my head...
"Psychiatrists, reaching the high of the
dusty desk, tell us that Alexander, Genghis
Khan and Napoleon were madmen. I know
they're maligning some very intelligent
gentlemen."

L. Ron Hubbard wrote these words in a letter to
his first wife in 1938.

In 1950 he wrote the bestseller 'Dianetics, the
Modern Science of Mental Health. This inspired a
layman oriented mental health movement which,
ultimately, developed into Scientology, the most
profitable of the money-making new religions.

Hubbard's early Dianetic and Scientology writings
borrow freely from Sigmund Freud, Carl Jung, and
the founder of General Semantics, Alfred Korzybski.

And P.T. Barnum appears to have been an inspiration.

Hubbard also took much from the writings of Aleister
Crowley - self-proclaimed "Beast 666." This is a source
of embarrassment for the Scientology Church, which
is determined to achieve broad public acceptance.

In the 1960s Hubbard incorporated Brainwashing
methodologies into the subject. He established the
"Fair Game Policy" which states that an "enemy" of
Scientology "may be deprived of property or injured
by any means by any Scientologist, without
discipline of that Scientologist. May be tricked,
sued, lied to or destroyed."

He also became the Commodore of his own private
navy, and began to refer to himself as "Source."

L. Ron Hubbard, Messiah or Madman? exposes
as never before the dark side of Scientology, yet
contains an in-depth examination of the potential
positives of the subject and their actual origins.



______________​


Below is a combination and an extension of 'Messiah or Madman?'s 'Brainwashing manual' chapter, and its 'Scientological Onion' chapter:

'Brainwashing Manual Parallels in Scientology', a.k.a. 'Revisiting the Textbook on Psycho-politics' http://www.xenu-directory.net/critics/ambry1.html

Table of Contents

Examining the 'Brainwashing Manual' http://warrior.xenu.ca/Brainwashing-front.jpg with the purpose of better understanding Scientology 4

Introduction: A Brief Outline of Scientology Doctrine, Public and Confidential 6

"White Scientology" - The Battle Tactics Doctrine - Brainwashing Manual Tech - Scientology is Multi-layered - Exploiting the Positives: the Cheese in the Trap -

Background 9

Origin of the word "brainwashing." and of the "Russian Brainwashing Manual"
L. Ron Hubbard writing to Scientologists on the subject of the Brainwashing Manual
Departing briefly from the Manual: A look at private tactics later shared with insiders
A publicized statement
A private explanation
Hubbard vs. the "Asiatic Hordes"
Back to the Brainwashing Manual: Excerpts from Hubbard's third public statement on it
Kenneth Goff's 1956 version of the Manual
Scientology's "No-answer answers."

Excerpts from the Brainwashing Manual/Textbook on Psycho-politics 14

"Editorial Note": Hubbard. assuming the guise of the phantasmal "Charles Stickley"
"An Address by Beria": Hubbard, pretending to be Lavrenti Beria, chief of the Russian Secret Police
The Main Text of the Manual: Hubbard, masquerading as an arrogant Russain Brainwashing expert
"Pain-Drug-Hypnosis"

The Layers of The "Scientological Onion"
yellowonion.jpg


http://exscn.net/content/view/178/105 17


Brainwashing Manual Parallels in Modern Scientology 19

Correspondences between the Brainwashing Manual and the Battle Tactics policy
On “Survival”
On Surviving the Atomic Bomb
On an individual Scientologist influencing leaders
Scientology is devious by design

Front Groups - Layer Zero of the “Scientological Onion” 20

“It is not necessary that the term ‘Communism’ [Scientology] be applied at first…”

Layer One - The publicized portion of Scientology 23

“White Scientology”
Scenario: (An application of “White Scientology”)
“By reason alone”
Auditing


Descending into Layer Two of the “Onion”: The “In-Organization” Strata 27

“…[Scientology] under the guise of [‘White Scientology’]…”
Exploitation of the process of abreaction
Playing one thing off another or “counter-playing”
“Loaded language”: the seemingly enlightened “counter-played” with the manipulative
Tone 4, “entheta,” “theta,” Suppressive Person
The Thought Limiting clichés of Scientology
Publicized, “In-organization” and Confidential Scientology “Ethics”
“…aligning the individual against the desire not to conform…”
Side effects of “critical thoughts”
Dominion over the loyalties of individuals

Layer Three of the “Onion”: The Confidential “Upper Levels” of the “Bridge to Total Freedom” 33

“…avoid the understanding of the layman…”
Highest of the “upper levels” must remain a mystery to the membership
Operating Thetan or O.T.
Aleister Crowley, Head of the O.T.O.
O.T. III, The “Wall of Fire” into which Hubbard “took the plunge” to save Mankind
Exploitation of the paranormal

Layer Four: “…a well trained individual who serves in complete obedience…”
The Sea Organization, the Rehabilitation Project Force, and the Five Card System 36


The Sea Organization: “Custodians of the O.T. Levels”
“…the only loyalty which should exist… is to the State [Scientology].”
Sea Org Ethics under Commodore Hubbard on the Flagship
“Refusal to let them sleep over many days…”
The Rehabilitation Project Force
“Filthy food, little sleep, nearly untenable quarters…”
“…the first loyalty [to himself]… is destroyed…”
“Degradation and conquest…”
The children’s and teenagers’ RPF
“A certain amount of fear…”
The RPF’s RPF
The Five Card “Team Share” System
“The technologies of psycho-politics…”

Layer Five: Confidential Scientology Policy and Tech for “handling” uncooperative outsiders 46

The Fair Game policy and “philosophy”
“…find or manufacture enough threat…”
“Direct the attention of the authorities…”
Scientology’s unscrupulous use of the legal system
“We will no longer put up with our religion being criticized…”
Discourage inquiry
Defamatory data on file; “Culling”: Searching “religious confessional” (auditing) files for embarrassing or intimidating items
Background: The Commodore’s Intelligence Network
The policy of covert attack and publicized PR “defense lines”
Scientology’s Multi-layered Public Relations tech
Scientology Intelligence tech
Data collecting, and Attack or “support” Intelligence
Creating incidents that reflect badly on others
“Data needed by Ops on each located who”
Attack or “support” Intelligence - The Covert Ops study course and checklist
“Persons in his vicinity to whom he is emotionally involved…”
Coerce them into signing prepared “retractions” or “confessions”
Plenty of bogus “documentation”
One justification for unscrupulous covert methods
Treatment of VIPs and celebrities
Goal of talking over “mental health” and “political guidance”
Full knowledge of Intelligence tech must be denied to the general membership
“Deception, chicanery, lying, manipulation and outright criminality”
“She over there, those pink legs sticking out, didn’t like me”
Scientologists believe in a planet-wide conspiracy against L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology
The Scientology Hierarchy

Layer Six: The Core of the “Scientological Onion” 69

“…virtually a pathological liar…egotism… lust for power, and vindictiveness…”
“We must be like the vine upon the tree…”
The elusive “1000 page” official L. Ron Hubbard biography
“It’s a trap not being able to prevaricate”
Conscience as an “impediment”
The L. Ron Hubbard Fan(atic) club

Epilogue 74

Freeing the Positives

Addendum 76

"Dr. Hubbard's" FBI letters written concurrent with the appearance of the Brainwashing Manual 77

L. Ron Hubbard assumes the identity of Dr. Hubbard Ph.D DD - Patriotic Concerned Citizen
Letter of 29 July 1955
From a letter dated 7 September

A further look at Scientology's Covert Intelligence Tech 79

"Categories of Data Needing Coding"
A glimpse at a covert operation, and of public strata "policy" used as a cover for applied covert policy
An example of public strata "policy" used as "cover" - this time used on Scientologists by Scientology
"Ops Planning"
What to "Vet" or delete from sensitive internal messages that may be scrutinized by outsiders

Bibliography 82

Notes 87


____________​


Quoting from the 'Brainwashing Manual Parallels' Epilogue:

Epilogue
Freeing the Positives


"....Examining and 'sorting out' the subject would be worthwhile task. Doing so would not only educate as to the details of its dominant 'dark side', but would also make possible the freeing of what good may be found within it."


__________​


The "positives" - separated from the over-all subject - would no longer be Scientology, but another subject.


_______________​


When confronted by a person, who is in the process of being lured into Scientology, and has just pleasantly used his newly acquired "Comm Course" skills to establish communication with, and happily extrovert, a withdrawn little old lady neighbor, and is very pleased with himself about his good deed, and equally as impressed with his success applying the "tech," don't go

300px-Profanity.svg.png


on the person, because that probably won't help free him from the sucking power of Scientology.

The fact is the little old lady did feel better, and was cheerfully extroverted.

Recognize that, and then take it from there. :)
 

arcxcauseblows

Patron Meritorious
well since you can't have a normal conversation with them about it because they're essentially clueless, self policed, intentionally blind and suspending non belief since they're so indoctrinated into trying to dance around the actual subject you have to get sneaky and play their twisted game their way...

one way is to learn more about scientology than they know, read everything on wikileaks and listen to the confidential lectures, the things they're afraid to read

don't insult anything about the subject, just tell them what lrh you read/listened to, not the actual content

oh hi, got curious about your scientology so i went online, pretty cool, i listened to some audio recordings of mary sue auditing lrh on some wholetrack it's amazing! heard the lecture on incident 2 and incident 1, ot3, etc. wait till you read that!!! when do you think you'll do ot3?

oh you haven't heard that? that's weird, cause the public watches that stuff

read up to ot8 on wikileaks too, amazing stuff! especially the OT drug rundown hcob, i learned the reason why you take so much niacin on the purif

you know your krc on scientology is low, that's being irresponsible, you should at least learn what it is at a public level so you can discuss the subject

did you know lrh canceled disconnection?

have you read debbie cooks email? they are squirreling the ias levels those donations are off policy, want to see the lrh reference?

also, do you think this golden age and new rewritten basics is really in line with ksw?

personally i think ksw is way out but when you guys aren't going online to read what's actually happening I understand why you can't fix it

where's shelly? where's heber? how would you write a kr on miscavige, who keeps him in check? lol

did you know lrh devised a check and balance system between rtc/cst and csi? it's been totally bypassed though
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Ok so I am an ex sciguy who has not announced my suppresiveness.

For quite some time I have mulled in my mind the thoughts of "false data stripping" my family and letting them in on what's really going on.
Welcome to ESMB. :)

Don't forget the cult disconnection policy: the more you try and get family members out the more likely you are to become a target for disconnection. If you push it too far then it becomes for them a you-or-Scn decision. I'm not saying do it or don't do it, just be aware that it happens and act accordingly.

-----

Have you ever literally FDSed the subject of Scientology? That would be a no-no within the cult, although I found it useful. The first four FDS session worksheets at http://paulsrobot3.com/1st/sample-sessions.htm cover a thetan, metering, and Scientology as topics. These session notes are only intended to show the kinds of thing that could come up, not for suggesting any general truths.

Paul
 

dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
Ok so I am an ex sciguy who has not announced my suppresiveness.

For quite some time I have mulled in my mind the thoughts of "false data stripping" my family and letting them in on what's really going on.

I'm posting here as a way to bounce some ideas around about how you could actually sit a scientologist down and basically turn them into a suppressive person. (show them what's really going on)

First couple of ideas I have had, I'll list out. Please feel free to add more and I will as well as more come into my head.

It is important to note that any Scientologist who actually calls themself a Scientologist TRULY believes (knows) that they have, and were, and will be helped by Scientology. I'm fact they believe it's their spiritual freedom at stake.
In my opinion they probably actually were helped by some aspects found inside Scientology
The second you say Scientology is wrong, you might as well go yell at an ashtray.
If you are still connected with practicing Scientologists but you yourself have come to find the real truth, then you are in an interesting dilemma, the things you learned in Scientology now forces you to want to take responsibility, but this whole disconnection thing is a serious threat.
I have come to the conclusion that degrading Scientology in any way would end the conversation.
I think it would be successful if you used Scientology to achieve deprogramming of a Scientologist.
Consider you have a family member who is in the church who has completed their grades or higher. considering that fact there is no communication they could receive that could adversely effect them. Preface the conversation with this fact. Reinforce their beliefs in Scientology.
Perhaps you could even "rehab" a win by getting them to tell you about it. Give them a solid acknowledgment that lets them know that you agree with their win and you think it's great.
Let them know you agree with their decision to be a Scientologist. Because honestly, it is their right to participate in any group that they wish to do so.
Maybe even preface the conversation with how the comm cycle works and that communication is the universal solvent.

Another no-no in this conversation would be the degradation of L.R.H. most people who leave the church usually leave with the idea that the tech is perfect and L.R.H. was a guru. I thought this Even 5 years after I stopped heavily practicing Scientology but was still considering myself a Scientologist

I think making a statement to the effect of, there is something seriously wrong with the church might be a good entry point.

Give me your ideas about what you would say and how you would get a scientologist to actually listen to what you had to say.

There are a number of divergent views on how to help someone in a cult like the scientology prison of belief.

Steve Haasan has his " BITE " model.
https://freedomofmind.com

There are quite a few professional in this area to be found by online searches.

One article I recently read leads one into the research that a judge did and I think it has a lot of merit.

https://www.wired.com/2017/01/can-y...into-citizen/?mbid=nl_12417_p3&CNDID=22925323

The cultic techniques definitely use information control or de-pluralizing so getting a trapped person involved in non- cult activities can be one of many helpful tools to unfocus the mind.

That said here is an idea. I don't know if it will work, but maybe sometimes.

Ask your scientology friend to help you write some KRs about things that might be a threat to other scientologists or orgs or PR.
Get them to give you some real life examples that they know about.
Then express an interest in " why" did those things happen.
Sure you will probably get things like DB, MU, and outruds, or out ethics. Run over those things to get the details. Then ask who was blamed in the justification and did the blamed do anything wrong that should also be KR'd and ask your friend to let you know of anything similar that they might later think of, coz you want to be totally complying and complete on this KR-Ethics-Justice project.
Then drop it.

See what happens and if there is any awareness or concern by your friend about what is " wrong in scientology " and if your friend finds any of those
Upsetting or problematic.

ETA;

I am a bit adverse to the term " deprogramming" . Why not just leave the old program alone or running on automatic as it normally do, but introduce other more useful " suite of proven programs " as living widely can do. Then your friend can uninstall the old junk as needed?
 
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Enthetan

Master of Disaster
One approach is to have them actually examine what is happening. Just express friendly curiosity, without any hint of antagonism.

How many people are on lines at the local Org? Is the number growing? How is the current number of active Scientologists compared to the number when he first started?

The big vulnerability of Scientology, is the lack of real results. If Scientology really increased ability, there would be lots of very successful Scientologists. A technology that actually enabled a salesman to close 10% more sales, a lawyer to win 10% more of his cases, a stock trader to correctly guess how the market would move 10% more often, would be immensely valuable to people, would you not agree? Why haven't more Scientologists become leading figures in these fields?

Another approach, for long term Scientologists: "Would you REALLY REALLY want Scientology running the world? How would things be if the Ethics Officer had the full powers of the police?"
 

Out/Int

Patron with Honors
Ok so I am an ex sciguy who has not announced my suppresiveness.

For quite some time I have mulled in my mind the thoughts of "false data stripping" my family and letting them in on what's really going on.

I'm posting here as a way to bounce some ideas around about how you could actually sit a scientologist down and basically turn them into a suppressive person. (show them what's really going on)

First couple of ideas I have had, I'll list out. Please feel free to add more and I will as well as more come into my head.

It is important to note that any Scientologist who actually calls themself a Scientologist TRULY believes (knows) that they have, and were, and will be helped by Scientology. I'm fact they believe it's their spiritual freedom at stake.
In my opinion they probably actually were helped by some aspects found inside Scientology
The second you say Scientology is wrong, you might as well go yell at an ashtray.
If you are still connected with practicing Scientologists but you yourself have come to find the real truth, then you are in an interesting dilemma, the things you learned in Scientology now forces you to want to take responsibility, but this whole disconnection thing is a serious threat.
I have come to the conclusion that degrading Scientology in any way would end the conversation.
I think it would be successful if you used Scientology to achieve deprogramming of a Scientologist.
Consider you have a family member who is in the church who has completed their grades or higher. considering that fact there is no communication they could receive that could adversely effect them. Preface the conversation with this fact. Reinforce their beliefs in Scientology.
Perhaps you could even "rehab" a win by getting them to tell you about it. Give them a solid acknowledgment that lets them know that you agree with their win and you think it's great.
Let them know you agree with their decision to be a Scientologist. Because honestly, it is their right to participate in any group that they wish to do so.
Maybe even preface the conversation with how the comm cycle works and that communication is the universal solvent.

Another no-no in this conversation would be the degradation of L.R.H. most people who leave the church usually leave with the idea that the tech is perfect and L.R.H. was a guru. I thought this Even 5 years after I stopped heavily practicing Scientology but was still considering myself a Scientologist

I think making a statement to the effect of, there is something seriously wrong with the church might be a good entry point.

Give me your ideas about what you would say and how you would get a scientologist to actually listen to what you had to say.


Thank you for your post and what a great topic.

I am working on my own personal hat pack right now.

In my humble, short SP lived, opinion...what got me out will get others out. USE SCIENTOLOGY on SCIENTOLOGY.

You HAVE to rehab their doubts.

I am working on a Staff member right now.

We got in comm.

I use ARC to keep the Comm going.

Then I start poking around. Ask questions like - What grade are you on now? Are you still on staff? How long have you been on staff? The rational part of the mind will do a little math; Staff for 8 years = NO MOVEMENT on the Bridge= LIE = Betrayal = Scam

I bet it is fun working at the Ideal Org, Eh? I mean - you don't have to meet the public - the panels do all the talking. Say - Now that the new Ideal Org has been opened for years, are the new public coming in - in droves? (THEN SHUT UP) The Rational part of the mind will compute = NO EXPANSION

Did you get to do Super Powers yet? LRH designed those for staff. I heard they were awesome! (You will key them in - now keep them keyed in)

Find something they are not happy about with Scientology (should not be hard) and IMPINGE with ARC and KRC.

Use the tech. it will also accomplish the goal of them not wanting to call you for events because you key them in everytime you talk to them but they won't know why. YOU ARE USING THE TRUTH!
 

Out/Int

Patron with Honors
Welcome to ESMB. :)

Don't forget the cult disconnection policy: the more you try and get family members out the more likely you are to become a target for disconnection. If you push it too far then it becomes for them a you-or-Scn decision. I'm not saying do it or don't do it, just be aware that it happens and act accordingly.

-----

Have you ever literally FDSed the subject of Scientology? That would be a no-no within the cult, although I found it useful. The first four FDS session worksheets at http://paulsrobot3.com/1st/sample-sessions.htm cover a thetan, metering, and Scientology as topics. These session notes are only intended to show the kinds of thing that could come up, not for suggesting any general truths.

Paul

Paul - I am a bit surprised that with your arsenal of Scientology tech - you can't come up with a solution?

Come on now Paul - all that money, all that time studying Scientology Technology?

Why - You use Scientology on Scientology.

Everything has to be done on a gradient and covertly.:coolwink:

LOL
 

Out/Int

Patron with Honors
Welcome to ESMB. :)

Don't forget the cult disconnection policy: the more you try and get family members out the more likely you are to become a target for disconnection. If you push it too far then it becomes for them a you-or-Scn decision. I'm not saying do it or don't do it, just be aware that it happens and act accordingly.

-----

Have you ever literally FDSed the subject of Scientology? That would be a no-no within the cult, although I found it useful. The first four FDS session worksheets at http://paulsrobot3.com/1st/sample-sessions.htm cover a thetan, metering, and Scientology as topics. These session notes are only intended to show the kinds of thing that could come up, not for suggesting any general truths.

Paul

Also - your reaction, Paul, is that of a Scientologist.

I hope you don't mind my evaluation here - but it was glaring out to me a like a beacon in the night.

Disconnection is used to suppress, to implant fear, to get the robots to toe the line.

NEVER operate your life from fear. That is how Scientology Keeps Working.

Get your Create Create on SP's - get clever - get creative.

Go Under the Radar and IMPINGE!
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
I am working on a Staff member right now.

We got in comm.

I use ARC to keep the Comm going.

Then I start poking around. Ask questions like - What grade are you on now? Are you still on staff? How long have you been on staff? The rational part of the mind will do a little math; Staff for 8 years = NO MOVEMENT on the Bridge= LIE = Betrayal = Scam

I bet it is fun working at the Ideal Org, Eh? I mean - you don't have to meet the public - the panels do all the talking. Say - Now that the new Ideal Org has been opened for years, are the new public coming in - in droves? (THEN SHUT UP) The Rational part of the mind will compute = NO EXPANSION

Did you get to do Super Powers yet? LRH designed those for staff. I heard they were awesome! (You will key them in - now keep them keyed in)

That's another big area that can be used to create doubt.

Scientology auditing is supposed to make people more able. So WHY is auditing not being used on staff? Is it because Management doesn't think it will make staff more able? Or is it because Management doesn't want staff to be more able?
 

Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

I'm posting here as a way to bounce some ideas around about how you could actually sit a scientologist down and basically turn them into a suppressive person. (show them what's really going on)

-snip-

Usually the first approach is to say something like, "Tech is out in orgs." Sites such as this reflect this approach. http://www.friendsoflrh.org/

Once the idea that "tech is out" (or, slightly stronger, "The organization - infiltrated by SPs - has betrayed LRH") is planted, as much as it's resisted, it will remain in the back of the person's mind.

Other ideas can follow, such as "Miscavige is only a provisional Class IV auditor," and "has squirrelled Scientology."

"The type of fund raising done in Scientology these days was never authorized by LRH and is contrary to policy," etc.

"There are no OT levels above New OT 8, and New OT 8 was not from LRH, but was done by Ray Mithoff who has disappeared."

"The levels above New OT 8 have disappeared or never existed in the first place. David Miscavige has no more levels."

"The actual upper OT levels (original OT 4 through 7) are being withheld by Miscavige and are delivered only outside of the organization."

Etc.

The idea is to extricate the person from the organization and its influence.

The person will still believe many things which are nonsense, but, at least he or she will be OUT.

Once OUT, and no longer under corporate Scientology's influence, further examining of information and "sorting out," and (self) "deprogramming," can occur.
 

Elronius of Marcabia

Silver Meritorious Patron
Ok so I am an ex sciguy who has not announced my suppresiveness.

For quite some time I have mulled in my mind the thoughts of "false data stripping" my family and letting them in on what's really going on.

I'm posting here as a way to bounce some ideas around about how you could actually sit a scientologist down and basically turn them into a suppressive person. (show them what's really going on)

First couple of ideas I have had, I'll list out. Please feel free to add more and I will as well as more come into my head.

It is important to note that any Scientologist who actually calls themself a Scientologist TRULY believes (knows) that they have, and were, and will be helped by Scientology. I'm fact they believe it's their spiritual freedom at stake.
In my opinion they probably actually were helped by some aspects found inside Scientology
The second you say Scientology is wrong, you might as well go yell at an ashtray.
If you are still connected with practicing Scientologists but you yourself have come to find the real truth, then you are in an interesting dilemma, the things you learned in Scientology now forces you to want to take responsibility, but this whole disconnection thing is a serious threat.
I have come to the conclusion that degrading Scientology in any way would end the conversation.
I think it would be successful if you used Scientology to achieve deprogramming of a Scientologist.
Consider you have a family member who is in the church who has completed their grades or higher. considering that fact there is no communication they could receive that could adversely effect them. Preface the conversation with this fact. Reinforce their beliefs in Scientology.
Perhaps you could even "rehab" a win by getting them to tell you about it. Give them a solid acknowledgment that lets them know that you agree with their win and you think it's great.
Let them know you agree with their decision to be a Scientologist. Because honestly, it is their right to participate in any group that they wish to do so.
Maybe even preface the conversation with how the comm cycle works and that communication is the universal solvent.

Another no-no in this conversation would be the degradation of L.R.H. most people who leave the church usually leave with the idea that the tech is perfect and L.R.H. was a guru. I thought this Even 5 years after I stopped heavily practicing Scientology but was still considering myself a Scientologist

I think making a statement to the effect of, there is something seriously wrong with the church might be a good entry point.

Give me your ideas about what you would say and how you would get a scientologist to actually listen to what you had to say.





This was helpful to me when I ran across it years ago in the atempt to understand shunning and disconnection maybe its old
news here, but here it is anyway.

Religious Memes do the following


[1] Promise heaven for belief.

[2] Threaten eternal punishment in hell for disbelief.

[3] Boost the believers' egos by telling them they are 'chosen' or superior to believers in false memes.

[4] Disable the faculties of disbelief ('immune response') by claiming that faith is superior to reason.

[5] Establish itself as the One True Meme, usually by some sort of holy book containing a circular self-referential argument such as:

X is the one true meme. We know X is the one true meme because The Source of Universal Truth has approved X. We know The Source of Universal Truth has approved X, because X contains statements which say so. We know what X says is true because X is the one true meme.

Once it has parasitised the mind of its host, a meme needs to propagate itself. A successful meme will contain instructions for some or all of the following:

[6] Holy war - convert or kill all unbelievers.

[7] Intimidation and terrorism - threaten and discriminate against unbelievers.

[8] Enforced social isolation or even death to apostates. (An apostate is a host which has cured itself of a meme-infection. It is especially dangerous to the meme because it might pass on meme-resistance to others).

[9] Fecundism - encourage true believers to breed faster than believers in false memes.

[10] Censorship - prevent rival memes from reaching potential hosts (a theological doctrine known as 'Error has no rights').

[11] Disinformation - spread lies about rival memes. Demonise them - the bigger the lies the more likely they are to be believed. The disinformation may even include instructions for a meme to lie about itself!
 

Miss Ellie

Miss Ellie
1. How much do you LIKE/LOVE the person?

2. Are you willing to loose them to disconnection? If yes continue, if no do not continue.

3. Talk about, in general, how great your life is. Great job, family, car, vacation, what ever.

4. Talk about how much knowledge you get about all sorts of things from books, magazines, TV the internet. Admit that not all information is true or important. Some "stuff" is plenty "wackoooo". How to decorate, cook, fix things, nature, politics... what ever your interest is talk about. Pull things up on your phone/internet to show and share but NOT about sciobot subjects.

5. Have real several real conversations over a period of time about see step 3 & 4. Be safe, be fun, be real.

6. Mention, in passing, how much back ground you have learned about scio, LRH, the growth (slight laugh) of scio. Then move to another subject. Do not give details.

7. IF ASK.... give a few details without an out right attack of "the subject". Make them pull the info out of you.

8. If they scream & start to pull away from the facts let it drop. In time they will come back and ask for more.

9. Let them know that you are in fact always available if they ever need you... in case of nuclear attack, volcano eruption, etc. Laugh... and keep it light.

10. Let the seed grow... give it room, light & water. If they have doubts they will come back to talk more. If they do not let it drop... they will at some point come back to continue the conversations.

If you get in their face... it might not work.... no one likes being told they are tossing their life down a pit. Even if true they do not like it. Keep it light, simple and make them pull the info out of you. Be ready for a phone call wanting to REALLY TALK ABOUT IT. Then go for broke.

:eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:
 

TheSneakster

More Skeptical Than You
Warning: unpopular viewpoint follows. Very likely to offend the faithful here. You have been warned.

There is no such thing as deprogramming. There is, however, reprogramming. Those of you who push this "deprogramming" notion are really engaged in reprogramming Co$ victims into soldiers of the Anti-Scientologist army - with some success, too. :eyeroll:

Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
email: [email protected]
facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mhobson2011
 

Gib

Crusader
Warning: unpopular viewpoint follows. Very likely to offend the faithful here. You have been warned.

There is no such thing as deprogramming. There is, however, reprogramming. Those of you who push this "deprogramming" notion are really engaged in reprogramming Co$ victims into soldiers of the Anti-Scientologist army - with some success, too. :eyeroll:

Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
email: [email protected]
facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mhobson2011

not really, when you think about it. There are those that seek to provide an alternative viewpoint, like check out this other philosophy, or line of thought.

Anybody who reads this forum of ideas is free to think and choose. Just words, no disconnection, no fair game to enforce compliance.
 

dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
Warning: unpopular viewpoint follows. Very likely to offend the faithful here. You have been warned.

There is no such thing as deprogramming. There is, however, reprogramming. Those of you who push this "deprogramming" notion are really engaged in reprogramming Co$ victims into soldiers of the Anti-Scientologist army - with some success, too. :eyeroll:

Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
email: [email protected]
facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mhobson2011

I guess no one has ever written a new programming language based on their truly independent ideas. ? Or dropped a flyby program onto other peoples computers.
 
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George Layton

Silver Meritorious Patron
Warning: unpopular viewpoint follows. Very likely to offend the faithful here. You have been warned.

There is no such thing as deprogramming. There is, however, reprogramming. Those of you who push this "deprogramming" notion are really engaged in reprogramming Co$ victims into soldiers of the Anti-Scientologist army - with some success, too. :eyeroll:

Michael A. Hobson
Independent Scientologist
email: [email protected]
facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mhobson2011

There is still a bit of a twist being put on this idea. It is not the people in scientology, it's scientology. Not Anti-Scientologist, Anti-scientology.
 

Gib

Crusader
Ok so I am an ex sciguy who has not announced my suppresiveness.

For quite some time I have mulled in my mind the thoughts of "false data stripping" my family and letting them in on what's really going on.

It's been awhile when I last looked at FDS, I probably should before I post this post, but what the hell, I'll do it anyways.

Maybe false data stripping should include missing data.
 
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