How to help a friend

Intentionally Blank

Scientology Widow
We had dinner last night with a friend from the org. More accurately, Mr/s Blanky's good friend but someone I've also known and liked for years.

When they get together they always start talking scientology - what course they're doing, what they're auditing, their wonderful wins (by now my dinner is usually ruined *sigh*) and so on. I guess in years past I either didn't know enough or simply tuned out enough to get some of the undertones. The last few years I've been paying more attention and picking up on things I didn't notice previously.

Mr/s B's friend, we'll call her Kerry*, was talking about being on course and then went on to say how she wished she could get auditing. Mr/s B commiserated with her and asked if there was any movement in that direction - or something to that effect. I didn't remember there being an issue so I asked Kerry what the problem was. Turns out she is an illegal pc. I guess I sort of knew that - or knew the term but I'd forgotten it in relation to Kerry or it didn't make an impact.

Kerry's always been kind of an oddball in the scn world - or at the local org, anyway. Her husband died several years ago and she just barely makes ends meet with a small pension and by selling some artwork. She plays with crystals, meditates, has secret dreams of being a buddhist, and tends to hang out more with the new age old hippy crowd than with people from the org. And yet she, like Mr/s B is (at least in what she says) a True Believer (TB). But then, since she doesn't have money - and really hasn't for years, she's kind of like a pet they tolerate at the org. I suspect she doesn't share her outside activities with most people there - and now that I think about it maybe she tells us those things because I'm a wog. Hmmm .... I have to think about that.

I'm not sure Kerry is as much a TB as she thinks she is. I was paying more attention last night and I thought there might be some holes in the bubble. She's internet savvy. Is passionate about human rights issues (I know, right??). She admires some really independent thinkers in her group of hippy friends. And she really enjoys her squirrel activites .. without knowing she's a squirrel.

Here's my question. Is it possible her lack of money and illegal status are actually keeping her in the church? I don't think she's ever experienced some of the things I've read here (or most of them, for that matter). Pretty sure she doesn't get the regging (no dinero) and that she's never been on staff. I'd be surprised if she's ever been sec checked. It's all social for her with some could-be-considered-enlightenment courses. Knowing her personality I think if she had any dealings with the harsh reality of scn she would be horrified. (Full disclosure: And of course, if she bolted Mr/s Blanky might be influenced in that direction as well.)

Thoughts?

Blanky

*Details and personal information have been changed to protect the privacy of the individual in question. EFF YOU OSA.
 

He-man

Hero extraordinary
Here's my question. Is it possible her lack of money and illegal status are actually keeping her in the church? I don't think she's ever experienced some of the things I've read here (or most of them, for that matter). Pretty sure she doesn't get the regging (no dinero) and that she's never been on staff. I'd be surprised if she's ever been sec checked. It's all social for her with some could-be-considered-enlightenment courses. Knowing her personality I think if she had any dealings with the harsh reality of scn she would be horrified. (Full disclosure: And of course, if she bolted Mr/s Blanky might be influenced in that direction as well.)

Thoughts?

Short answer - Yes. If you can't progress up the bridge you stay where you are and won't be allowed further into the onion. Also the way you describe it makes her unattractive for hard regging or recruitment. So I'd call her a fringer, someone you'd be polite to and have doing courses and as a helping hand whenever. I've seen several TB's like that and because they never end up in conflicts they don't seem to leave.
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
>snip< Here's my question. Is it possible her lack of money and illegal status are actually keeping her in the church? I don't think she's ever experienced some of the things I've read here (or most of them, for that matter). Pretty sure she doesn't get the regging (no dinero) and that she's never been on staff. I'd be surprised if she's ever been sec checked. It's all social for her with some could-be-considered-enlightenment courses. Knowing her personality I think if she had any dealings with the harsh reality of scn she would be horrified. (Full disclosure: And of course, if she bolted Mr/s Blanky might be influenced in that direction as well.)

Thoughts?

Blanky

*Details and personal information have been changed to protect the privacy of the individual in question. EFF YOU OSA.

$cientologists will tolerate her because she's obliviously sympathetic to $cientology and $cio's will see her as a "next lifetime" opportunity. She's being treated with kid gloves fed love bombing Elcon woo so her attachment is kept superficial and less prone asking hard critical questions. If nothing else she's free cult P.R. by word of mouth to her friends and acquaintances >cringe<. Of course her status would change in a heartbeat should she come into some money, then she would be "handled" then regg-ed dry. Mention ESMB and the sites on my sig., that might pop her $cio cult bubble.
 

He-man

Hero extraordinary
$cientologists will tolerate her because she's obliviously sympathetic to $cientology and $cio's will see her as a "next lifetime" opportunity. She's being treated with kid gloves fed love bombing Elcon woo so her attachment is kept superficial and less prone asking hard critical questions. If nothing else she's free cult P.R. by word of mouth to her friends and acquaintances >cringe<. Of course her status would change in a heartbeat should she come into some money, then she would be "handled" then regg-ed dry. Mention ESMB and the sites on my sig., that might pop her $cio cult bubble.

Maybe the OP should ask her to get the Illegal PC status lifted by telling her to tell the local org she just inherited a million bucks with no idea what to spend it on. That should get her cogwheels spinning.
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
Maybe the OP should ask her to get the Illegal PC status lifted by telling her to tell the local org she just inherited a million bucks with no idea what to spend it on. That should get her cogwheels spinning.

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:

She would have regs coming out of the woodwork like termites along with frantic pleas for IAS donations. Shudder.and cringe. :roflmao:

The funny part is it might work.
 

Intentionally Blank

Scientology Widow
Short answer - Yes. If you can't progress up the bridge you stay where you are and won't be allowed further into the onion. Also the way you describe it makes her unattractive for hard regging or recruitment. So I'd call her a fringer, someone you'd be polite to and have doing courses and as a helping hand whenever. I've seen several TB's like that and because they never end up in conflicts they don't seem to leave.

$cientologists will tolerate her because she's obliviously sympathetic to $cientology and $cio's will see her as a "next lifetime" opportunity. She's being treated with kid gloves fed love bombing Elcon woo so her attachment is kept superficial and less prone asking hard critical questions. If nothing else she's free cult P.R. by word of mouth to her friends and acquaintances. Of course her status would change in a heartbeat should she come into some money, then she would be "handled" then regg-ed dry. Mention ESMB and the sites on my sig., that might pop her $cio cult bubble.

That's pretty much how I figured it was. I'm glad to have it confirmed.

I would love to point her sites like this and the others in your sig line but I can't take the chance she would say something to Mr/s Blanky. I was awake all night thinking of ways I could encourage hér to be more involved and then experience those things first hand. Lol - it's certainly the first time I've considered getting someone more involved in the org in order to get them out!
 

Intentionally Blank

Scientology Widow
Maybe the OP should ask her to get the Illegal PC status lifted by telling her to tell the local org she just inherited a million bucks with no idea what to spend it on. That should get her cogwheels spinning.

Hmmm.... I'm pretty sure she wouldn't lie about that...... but I might......
.
.
.
If I just let something slip in a conversation at the org ....:whistling:
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
That's pretty much how I figured it was. I'm glad to have it confirmed.

I would love to point her sites like this and the others in your sig line but I can't take the chance she would say something to Mr/s Blanky. I was awake all night thinking of ways I could encourage hér to be more involved and then experience those things first hand. Lol - it's certainly the first time I've considered getting someone more involved in the org in order to get them out!

I don't have an answer regarding Mr./s Blanky getting word of any of your suggestions. Maybe you could invite Steve Hassan over for a scrumptious dinner for four and see how it goes.

:giggle:
 

Gib

Crusader
Here's my question. Is it possible her lack of money and illegal status are actually keeping her in the church? I don't think she's ever experienced some of the things I've read here (or most of them, for that matter). Pretty sure she doesn't get the regging (no dinero) and that she's never been on staff. I'd be surprised if she's ever been sec checked. It's all social for her with some could-be-considered-enlightenment courses. Knowing her personality I think if she had any dealings with the harsh reality of scn she would be horrified. (Full disclosure: And of course, if she bolted Mr/s Blanky might be influenced in that direction as well.)

I know many a folks who have hung around the org, and they are nowhere on the make believe states of awareness called the scientology bridge to freedom.

these folks like the social aspect, and staff members realize this, for they are just a body in the shop. They do not cause trouble, they just sort of float along and bring social conservation along in the scientology mindset.

There is no way you can help that sort of person.

You are better off finding someone of more status that is underground, that could influence your other half.
 

mockingbird

Silver Meritorious Patron
Fringe people are trapped in a special sort of hell .

Some do lots of course that are cheap like div 6 intro stuff to stay on lines and volunteer around the org .

Some are lonely and lack social skills so they stick with any group that is not obviously abusive that accepts and welcomes them.

They provide the org much needed bodies to appear to have and maintain members , which is VERY difficult at this stage of the cult's collapse, and actual disintegration .

I remember several years ago they reached a stage where they started calling in ANYBODY who was not declared sp who EVER did anything in Scientology , no matter how badly the person left or if they had money or not.

I did not understand at the time how the cult is shrinking as this was kept from me .

Fringe people don't see how clear and above is a lie as they never make it and usually wealthy people who make it to clear and OT never hang out with them ( unless they have an outside connection).

They are always in danger of being further harmed mentally , even by light auditing or any courses.

You might mail something anonymously to this person that can't be traced back to you , that has a short letter and list of links.

This list should be custom made to attract this person's attention and keep it .

There is always risk of discovery so keep that in mind.

And remember fringers waste their lives for LRH's lies just like everybody else : just because they don't get the utterly insane OT levels and Ls and waste fortunes doesn't mean they are " safe " or not getting hurt .
 

JustSheila

Crusader
:megaphone: PAGING LELAND! :megaphone:

Leland, will you give Blanky some advice, please?

Here's my question. Is it possible her lack of money and illegal status are actually keeping her in the church?

Blanky, I hope Leland answers this for you. I can't think of anyone more suitable to help. He's been through the wringer and back and every which thing as an illegal pc.
 

Cat's Squirrel

Gold Meritorious Patron
This probably(?) won't be popular here, but - why change anything? She's evidently happy enough in Scn apart from her lack of ability to buy services, she has friends there and isn't causing the Org a problem or they her. And she genuinely believes in the Tech, possibly as a result of having introductory services which worked for her. (Others here may see that as a sign of insanity or delusion, but I don't). And she doesn't seem to be out there "routing bodies into the shop."

There has to be a reason why she hasn't been asked to join staff, with her lack of money, and it could be the Org realises she'd be too hard to corral into their way of thinking.

If I were in her shoes - liking the Tech but short of money for auditing - I might be interested in the FZ. If I was a friend of hers I'd be inclined to do a Terril - tell her there are other options available, starting with Pilot's self clearing book (which is free to download).

But apart from that, there is sometimes a wisdom in non-interference.
 

Freeminds

Bitter defrocked apostate
I don't think that's unreasonable. You can't impose upon other people and it's often more important to remain a friend (a good, stable one) than to become part of the "enemy" by trying to stage an intervention. Just don't reinforce the delusion. A good standpoint is "we differ on this... but you're more important to me than our differences".

There really is no accounting for what people do with their money. Some people pay good money to have a prostitute spank them or urinate on them... and some people get auditing. It's a funny old world.
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
This probably(?) won't be popular here, but - why change anything? She's evidently happy enough in Scn apart from her lack of ability to buy services, she has friends there and isn't causing the Org a problem or they her. And she genuinely believes in the Tech, possibly as a result of having introductory services which worked for her. (Others here may see that as a sign of insanity or delusion, but I don't). And she doesn't seem to be out there "routing bodies into the shop."

There has to be a reason why she hasn't been asked to join staff, with her lack of money, and it could be the Org realises she'd be too hard to corral into their way of thinking.

If I were in her shoes - liking the Tech but short of money for auditing - I might be interested in the FZ. If I was a friend of hers I'd be inclined to do a Terril - tell her there are other options available, starting with Pilot's self clearing book (which is free to download).

But apart from that, there is sometimes a wisdom in non-interference.

She probably accounts for a "body in the shop" stat. Maybe occasionally does a Basics course. If she's a pleasant old lady, they probably like the idea of having her hang around the org, making it seem like a safe and comfortable place for any newcomers.

Depending on what made her an "illegal PC", she may be unqualified for staff. If she's just a lonely old lady who's using the org as a place to go and socialize, I see no reason to drive her out of it.
 

cleared cannibal

Silver Meritorious Patron
Maybe the OP should ask her to get the Illegal PC status lifted by telling her to tell the local org she just inherited a million bucks with no idea what to spend it on. That should get her cogwheels spinning.

I saw this exact thing happen. History of heavy psych drug use suddenly didn't seem to make a difference when some money became available.

This was one of the things which really started my questioning of the whole situation.
 
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Intentionally Blank

Scientology Widow
This probably(?) won't be popular here, but - why change anything? She's evidently happy enough in Scn apart from her lack of ability to buy services, she has friends there and isn't causing the Org a problem or they her. And she genuinely believes in the Tech, possibly as a result of having introductory services which worked for her. (Others here may see that as a sign of insanity or delusion, but I don't). And she doesn't seem to be out there "routing bodies into the shop."

There has to be a reason why she hasn't been asked to join staff, with her lack of money, and it could be the Org realises she'd be too hard to corral into their way of thinking.

If I were in her shoes - liking the Tech but short of money for auditing - I might be interested in the FZ. If I was a friend of hers I'd be inclined to do a Terril - tell her there are other options available, starting with Pilot's self clearing book (which is free to download).

But apart from that, there is sometimes a wisdom in non-interference.

I've had similar thoughts. The troublesome thing for me, as a friend, to see is how she feels 'less than' 'not good enough' 'damaged' because of the illegal label. She is certain that if she could only get auditing the rest of her life would finally get some momentum. And, of course, any failings on her part are because she is not good enough to have applied the tek she has completed well enough. If she could get up the bridge it would all be better - but she's not good enough. And so she's convinced to spend the little bit of extra cash she has on .... what's it called(?).... an application to get the illegal status removed.
 

Leland

Crusader
:megaphone: PAGING LELAND! :megaphone:

Leland, will you give Blanky some advice, please?



Blanky, I hope Leland answers this for you. I can't think of anyone more suitable to help. He's been through the wringer and back and every which thing as an illegal pc.


Glad to help....but don't know what you are asking.

There are 3 illegal catagories....And Blanky, you don't say which one she is. Plus her age would help.

I agree with Enthetan....her "status" with the C of $ would completely change, if she had money....BUT they would still use her illegal catogory to manipulate her.

I was classified as an Illegal since the day I walked into a Org....in 1972.....all the way until I left in 2001.

My father had worked for the CIA...and that made me " illegal ."

But I still got auditing...and took courses.

For the most part.....any Illegal can do courses.....it is the Auditing that is restricted.

The 3 categories are:
anyone you are connected to that has worked in any Government Intelligence agency.
anyone that has had Psychiactric care.
anyone that has a criminal background.....( I suppose a convicted felon....don't know the exact details)

Now there is a 4th category.....anyone that has taken LSD......That is suppose to make you illegal for the Sea Org.

If you put a question to me....I'll try to answer it.
 

Intentionally Blank

Scientology Widow
Glad to help....but don't know what you are asking.

There are 3 illegal catagories....And Blanky, you don't say which one she is. Plus her age would help.

I agree with Enthetan....her "status" with the C of $ would completely change, if she had money....BUT they would still use her illegal catogory to manipulate her.

I was classified as an Illegal since the day I walked into a Org....in 1972.....all the way until I left in 2001.

My father had worked for the CIA...and that made me " illegal ."

But I still got auditing...and took courses.

For the most part.....any Illegal can do courses.....it is the Auditing that is restricted.

The 3 categories are:
anyone you are connected to that has worked in any Government Intelligence agency.
anyone that has had Psychiactric care.
anyone that has a criminal background.....( I suppose a convicted felon....don't know the exact details)

Now there is a 4th category.....anyone that has taken LSD......That is suppose to make you illegal for the Sea Org.

If you put a question to me....I'll try to answer it.

Thanks :)

She's had significant psychiatric care including drugs and hospitalization. I don't think she ever took LSD but you never know about these prim little old ladies :coolwink:. No one who's worked in government intelligence - her sister was in the media and became outspoken against the cult.

So here's my question - is her lack of status and money to change it making it more likely she will never see the underbelly of co$ because they just treat her like a pet? And are there things I can do, without outing myself, to bring the abuses to her attention? I think if people at the org whom she now sees as lovely kind people were to treat her badly even a couple of times she might start to change her views.

Oh, and, CIA ..... Cool!!
 

Leland

Crusader
Thanks :)

She's had significant psychiatric care including drugs and hospitalization. I don't think she ever took LSD but you never know about these prim little old ladies :coolwink:. No one who's worked in government intelligence - her sister was in the media and became outspoken against the cult.

So here's my question - is her lack of status and money to change it making it more likely she will never see the underbelly of co$ because they just treat her like a pet? And are there things I can do, without outing myself, to bring the abuses to her attention? I think if people at the org whom she now sees as lovely kind people were to treat her badly even a couple of times she might start to change her views.

Oh, and, CIA ..... Cool!!

There is some policy/bulletins regarding auditing " Psych " "cases"....but have kinda forgotten them. There is even info about auditing people that have gotten electric shock treatments.

But as I said....no restrictions on doing courses that I know of. The idea being ( i think) that if a illegal can study....and then "prove" that they can audit.....that they could then get auditing later.

Of course, she would be required by Ethics Officer or MAA....to Disconnect from her sister. ( i am surprised she has not be required to do so already...)

I agree with other posts above ....that she might be looked upon by staff to be a "pet". " a failed psychiatric case" that has come to Scientology to be "really" fixed....They kinda like that idea....that they "could" fix her. (now this would only be allowed if she was not a problem of any sort.) Obviously....if she was a babbling, drooling....(overt and actively) exhibiting any crazy outward manifestations....they wouldn't want her anywhere near any org.....and would kick her out. There is specific policy that Scientology only handles the "able"....that those that really need help....like a crazy person....they just don't and won't help.

Well.....to answer your question...I don't know. I guess you could look up all the policies or Bulletins on psych cases....and give them to her.
You could point out that even though the C or $ claims to have all the answers....they won't help a psych case.
you could point out their hypocracy of letting her get auditing....if she had the money....even if it violates their own policy.
If the C of $ could work the miracles they claim.....why haven't they? Why not set up a "Church" specifically for crazy people....and fix them?

Well, that is a few points...
 

Leland

Crusader
The "people" at the org are not likely to treat her badly.

Only a reg....might get tough with her....to get her money.

Others, since they know she is a pysch case......probably won't get tough with her....they will handle her with kidd gloves.

Sounds kinda like they are sorta "love bombing" her. Which is not unusual at the beginning of the journey in Scientology.

But there are definate ORg policies....that say DO NOT audit pysch cases....
 
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