How we’ve helped people *see*.

Good twin

Floater
I guess the qualities that made us good FSMs make us good reverse FSMs as well. I've come to realize that whatever I brought to the table as a Scientologist is put to good use outside now.

I was a really good staff member. I was a good auditor. I was an excellent recruiter and a decent registrar and diiseminator. I thought the tech was amazing. I thought my training had made me able to get products for the thing I believed in.

I've come to realize it was me. I was sincerely interested in people and cared about the conditions in life that could and should be improved. I believed that being part of a group was more effective than standing alone. I was willing to stand and fight for what I considered a noble purpose.

There were lots of people like me. I made it my life's work to find as many of them as I could. We could have made anything work with that kind of dedication and faith and comraderie and passion. It's not so mysterious to me anymore. It wasn't some magic formula. It wasn't some unlocking of the traps of the universe. It was us. It was us deciding that something needed to be done and deciding to do it. It was us being noble and pure and true to ourselves.

That's what made Scientology work. People like you and me. Carmel and Feral are just who they always were. They are wonderful and passionate human beings.

Love you all.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
That's what made Scientology work. People like you and me. Carmel and Feral are just who they always were. They are wonderful and passionate human beings.

Love you all.

Scientology *never* worked; youse guys did :)

Why, I bet you coulda built pyramids too :)

Zinj
 

Carmel

Crusader
A mystery

<snip>
That's what made Scientology work. People like you and me. <snip>

Scientology *never* worked; youse guys did :)

<snip>
I agree with this, in one respect. Different people *used* Scn in different ways and/or played the game in vastly different ways.

I don't know if I'll ever get an answer to this one. I'm now looking at the possibility/probability that the influence of some wonderful people in Scn, when I first got in, had more of an effect on me than Scn itself. But then, Scn itself gave me an awful lot to think about, and a lot of demand to step up.....Would the outcome have been the same without Scn? I don't think so, but then If I didn't find Scn then I may have found something else which would have had a similar effect.

Of course wherever our life leads, it has much to do with who we are and what we are, but then so does our unique selves in the first place.

Bottom line for me is, I learned and experienced so much while within the ranks of the CofS, that I wouldn't trade it for quids. By the same token though, I wouldn't wish the actual *experience* on my worst enemy, and I know I am one who got off *lightly*.
 

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
I guess the qualities that made us good FSMs make us good reverse FSMs as well. I've come to realize that whatever I brought to the table as a Scientologist is put to good use outside now.

I was a really good staff member. I was a good auditor. I was an excellent recruiter and a decent registrar and diiseminator. I thought the tech was amazing. I thought my training had made me able to get products for the thing I believed in.

I've come to realize it was me. I was sincerely interested in people and cared about the conditions in life that could and should be improved. I believed that being part of a group was more effective than standing alone. I was willing to stand and fight for what I considered a noble purpose.

There were lots of people like me. I made it my life's work to find as many of them as I could. We could have made anything work with that kind of dedication and faith and comraderie and passion. It's not so mysterious to me anymore. It wasn't some magic formula. It wasn't some unlocking of the traps of the universe. It was us. It was us deciding that something needed to be done and deciding to do it. It was us being noble and pure and true to ourselves.

That's what made Scientology work. People like you and me. Carmel and Feral are just who they always were. They are wonderful and passionate human beings.

Love you all.


That's right. It wasn't L. Ron Hubbard. It wasn't the SO.

Scientology worked because of people like you and me.

And you, and you, and you...

Damn it! All y'all take your power back.
 

RogerB

Crusader
NICE!!

Well, Good Twin, it looks to me like you've come to a realization on (some of) your true powers and abilities . . . . nice to see you honoring it! :happydance:

Rog

I guess the qualities that made us good FSMs make us good reverse FSMs as well. I've come to realize that whatever I brought to the table as a Scientologist is put to good use outside now.

I was a really good staff member. I was a good auditor. I was an excellent recruiter and a decent registrar and diiseminator. I thought the tech was amazing. I thought my training had made me able to get products for the thing I believed in.

I've come to realize it was me. I was sincerely interested in people and cared about the conditions in life that could and should be improved. I believed that being part of a group was more effective than standing alone. I was willing to stand and fight for what I considered a noble purpose.

There were lots of people like me. I made it my life's work to find as many of them as I could. We could have made anything work with that kind of dedication and faith and comraderie and passion. It's not so mysterious to me anymore. It wasn't some magic formula. It wasn't some unlocking of the traps of the universe. It was us. It was us deciding that something needed to be done and deciding to do it. It was us being noble and pure and true to ourselves.

That's what made Scientology work. People like you and me. Carmel and Feral are just who they always were. They are wonderful and passionate human beings.

Love you all.
 

RogerB

Crusader
Yes . . .

Yes, this is a nice distinction Carmel.

I also look at it in terms of getting them beyond (rather than out of) the trap of the CofS . . . this because they still usually have their underlying purpose of what they went "into" Scn to handle, attain, achieve, etc.

The difficulty in extricating some folks from the trap is that they are stuck with and by the belief that being "in" is the only way they'll achieve what they want . . .

Letting them know that that is a falsehood, and letting them know that, apart from the fact that they've been lied to and betrayed, they can achieve their wants outside of the "church" helps them redirect their desires and attention to better effect.

Rog

Thanks, folks. :)

Today the following was addressed to Kev (Feral) on another thread.

Quote:
When you and Carmel got people out of the C of S, that is all you did. You did not get them out of Scientology. You got them out of the Church, not Scientology.

Nah, we didn't get them out of anything, and SERIOUSLY, to "get them out of" the Church or Scientology *wasn't* actually my objective.

My main objective was to fix up my fuck up. I had unknowingly led or contributed to leading so many down the garden path (I had been led there myself). Through the wonders of the net and what I believe to be good fortune, I got to see the deceit, the turd that was propping up the raisins, and the solid wall that had me trapped started to fall. Without certain info, friends here, support and food for thought, that wouldn't have occurred.

Prior to finding the net in the '90's and '00's, I wanted answers but I didn't know where to look for them or that they were available for the taking. I didn't feel good but I didn't believe that I ever could. If only somebody had said, "Hey, check this out". I didn't need anyone to get me out of anything. I did though need help or direction on where to look and I didn't get it. When I found the net and things fell into place, *I* chose to cut all remaining ties with the Church. I continued to follow my nose and over time I got a different perspective on what Scn was. I could finally see that something I had locked in so tightly wasn't what I thought it was and I let it go.

All our individual experiences in Scn were different. It's not black and white. Where people end up sitting in regard to Scn is NOT my concern. At the end of the day, people can believe what they want to believe and I don't have a desire to have influence over that. However, when it comes to a well camouflaged deceit (which I contributed to), where people are falling prey to something they are blinded to, then I do have a desire to get them to see that. Given the opportunity I would help them to see it by encouraging them to look, and to look in a certain direction.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make 'em drink. I wouldn't even try to force it. If it was a smart horse, it'd just lap up the water and keeping drinking, but that'd be *his* job.

I didn't get anyone out of the Church or out of Scn.........They got themselves "out". I don't like it when people force their opinions on me and try and tell me what I should think, so I try to avoid doing that to others. That doesn't mean though that I wouldn't encourage them to look, give them some tips on where to look, and support them while doing so.

For the record, most who I have had dealings with over this matter, *have* gotten out of Scientology, but not "out of" the Church yet (although they do see the Church for what it is). Until they have openly cut ties with the Church, they aren't "out of it", IMO, and the vast majority still have that scenario.
 

wiseman_of_the_watchtower

Patron with Honors
Bang on!

Works for Sea Org members, too. But you have to have an accurate perspective on their base for it to work.

Don't strike down their beliefs. There's no reason for that.

I don't care what people believe. Sure there are far stranger beliefs then Scientology.

Maybe you'd like to save somebody from the organization, but you'd never think to save sombody who believes in ghosts, would you? That's because believing in ghosts won't ruin their life.

-Wiseman of the Watchtower
 
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