Carmel
Crusader
I just read a post on another thread that’s prompted me to write this post.
I introduced a lot of people to Scientology, a couple of hundred or so. I did that because I believed in it, because I thought they would benefit from it, and because throughout my time in Scn I was always meeting new people so I was in a position where I *could*, and it was easy.
When I got on the net and realised the scoop on the scam, I *teamed up* with Feral to do what I could do to help people *see* and get out of the trap. As it was, Feral and I had FSM’d more *new* people into Scn than anyone else in ANZO had. We knew just about all of the Sydney field, and just about all in the Sydney field knew either one of us or both of us.
We did a lot of things to contact one and all (which I’ve already outlined in another thread), but I want to clarify what I believe impinged on those Scientologists we spoke/wrote to.
Early on, we were contacting our old mates/selectees. Soon afterwards (when OSA had already started “black PRing” us), people were contacting us rather than us contacting them. I can’t say that it was all good, because it wasn’t. Sometimes there was lots of aggression, and there were lots of tears. However, mostly, it all ended up ok, and *so many* ended up looking, seeing, and getting out because of our encouragement (maybe influence) with them. It was a pretty trying time, and I (along with Feral I think) am thankful to Panda for support over that period.
FWIW, I NEVER challenged these people in regard to the workability of the tech, their beliefs, or LRH - NEVER. I just didn’t go there. I know that *I* benefited from the time and space to go there myself, and I wasn’t going to deny that to those I cared about. Besides, my intent with these people wasn’t to get them to see things the way I saw them, but more to encourage them to take the leap needed to see what was in front of their face, and the leap needed to bust free.
It was different with everyone I spoke to, but the following is an example of how it went with a few of the hundred or so who I spoke to directly, who subsequently started looking and got out...........
Scio: “WTF are you doing?” or “how could you be posting on the net?” or “I can’t believe you’ve gone to the dark side”
Me: “I’m doing what I always fucking did, I’m telling it how I see it.”
Scio: “How could attack Scn and the Church? How can you now attack all that you’ve been advocating for years?”
Me: “I’m not attacking all that I’ve been advocating. I’m attacking management and that aspect of Scn which is against and *counter* to everything I have always advocated.”
Scio: “You’re antagonistic to Scn and attacking the Church, we’ll have to leave it there”.
Me: “Wait up, you’re supposed to be the scientologist here, aren’t you? Why would you not communicate with me about this so you can at least understand where I’m coming from? Ya don’t have to agree with me, but isn’t this a situation where you should apply some ARC? Let's communicate so you can at least understand where I'm coming from, even if you don't agree, so then we can go our separate ways or not, depending on what we decide after we have the full picture.”
Scio: (silence)
Me: “Back up a little, go back........Why did I introduce you to Scientology? (or reg you, or recover you) What was I advocating then? Tell me! What was it that I was telling you Scn could give you or why was I so hell bent on you going forward with Scn.”
Scio: (they’d give the reason)
Me: “Are you getting that now, are you getting what I wanted you to get, or what you thought you'd get? Or, more to the point, are you being denied that now? Are the tenets of Scn which I was pushing and advocating, being practiced or even permitted within the ranks of the CofS? I encouraged you to do Scn because of .....yadda, yadda, yadda (basic tenets of Scn)....but are you applying or permitted to apply those tenets?”
Scio: (quiet)
Me: “Don’t you ask *yourself* wtf is going on? Do you not see things in direct violation of what you thought Scn was about and what was promised?”
Me: “What about KSW 1 - 10? Who is source now, LRH or DM? What about responsibility on four flows...since when does only one of the four flows count?”
Me: Don’t ya cop the condition that you don’t assign?
Me: You say I’m an anti scientologist now......of the two of us, who is the one applying the most “tech” here?
Etc, etc, etc.
It was different with everyone I spoke to, but, there was a common thread. I maintained that I stayed on track, and it was them who went off track or who got suckered into a bait and switch. I didn’t spend much time talking to anyone who wasn’t someone I very much cared about. I gave them food for thought, then gave them links to threads here on ESMB and other sites, where they could look and see for themselves.
Shredder here will tell ya (when she gets the internet on in her new abode in about a week) that when I spoke to her, I spoke about nothing except what we thought or wanted Scn to be, WASN’T SO in practice. I told her that I thought there was a reason for that, and that she should look at what that might be. I gave her links to various threads and info. Then she and Doom spent the whole weekend looking, and *found*. After the weekend, Shredder called me back and queried me about stuff she’d found and read on LRH. She was somewhat shell-shocked (understandably), so I didn’t *rub it in* or confirm in concrete.....I just said “yep, it would seem so....the more ya look at all this, the more you’ll understand it, but just take your time, and don’t rush into making conclusions.” I said to her that if she just kept her eyes open to everything and anything from varying perspectives (without trying to draw conclusions), that she would then get to a place where it would all make sense. I told her that chances are it would be a horrible ride and that I could only suggest that she hang on for dear life until it finished or got easier. I told her that every former scio I knew had gone through it, and that she could call on us or lean on us whenever she needed to.
Anyways, point of post - People got into scn and have ended up supporting it, despite the fact that it is in conflict with why they got involved in it in the first place. Most didn’t get involved to become trapped in what they are trapped in now. If ya point that out, and/or get them to look at that, it’ll help.......Pointing out other stuff either doesn’t help or makes it worse, IMO.
Scios these days have a lot right in their face, and continually. Use that which they see to get them to take the leap to look further....If you encourage them to look (without alienating them by inundating them with all the info you have), then they will have a chance to see and take the steps that they need to, to bust out.
I introduced a lot of people to Scientology, a couple of hundred or so. I did that because I believed in it, because I thought they would benefit from it, and because throughout my time in Scn I was always meeting new people so I was in a position where I *could*, and it was easy.
When I got on the net and realised the scoop on the scam, I *teamed up* with Feral to do what I could do to help people *see* and get out of the trap. As it was, Feral and I had FSM’d more *new* people into Scn than anyone else in ANZO had. We knew just about all of the Sydney field, and just about all in the Sydney field knew either one of us or both of us.
We did a lot of things to contact one and all (which I’ve already outlined in another thread), but I want to clarify what I believe impinged on those Scientologists we spoke/wrote to.
Early on, we were contacting our old mates/selectees. Soon afterwards (when OSA had already started “black PRing” us), people were contacting us rather than us contacting them. I can’t say that it was all good, because it wasn’t. Sometimes there was lots of aggression, and there were lots of tears. However, mostly, it all ended up ok, and *so many* ended up looking, seeing, and getting out because of our encouragement (maybe influence) with them. It was a pretty trying time, and I (along with Feral I think) am thankful to Panda for support over that period.
FWIW, I NEVER challenged these people in regard to the workability of the tech, their beliefs, or LRH - NEVER. I just didn’t go there. I know that *I* benefited from the time and space to go there myself, and I wasn’t going to deny that to those I cared about. Besides, my intent with these people wasn’t to get them to see things the way I saw them, but more to encourage them to take the leap needed to see what was in front of their face, and the leap needed to bust free.
It was different with everyone I spoke to, but the following is an example of how it went with a few of the hundred or so who I spoke to directly, who subsequently started looking and got out...........
Scio: “WTF are you doing?” or “how could you be posting on the net?” or “I can’t believe you’ve gone to the dark side”
Me: “I’m doing what I always fucking did, I’m telling it how I see it.”
Scio: “How could attack Scn and the Church? How can you now attack all that you’ve been advocating for years?”
Me: “I’m not attacking all that I’ve been advocating. I’m attacking management and that aspect of Scn which is against and *counter* to everything I have always advocated.”
Scio: “You’re antagonistic to Scn and attacking the Church, we’ll have to leave it there”.
Me: “Wait up, you’re supposed to be the scientologist here, aren’t you? Why would you not communicate with me about this so you can at least understand where I’m coming from? Ya don’t have to agree with me, but isn’t this a situation where you should apply some ARC? Let's communicate so you can at least understand where I'm coming from, even if you don't agree, so then we can go our separate ways or not, depending on what we decide after we have the full picture.”
Scio: (silence)
Me: “Back up a little, go back........Why did I introduce you to Scientology? (or reg you, or recover you) What was I advocating then? Tell me! What was it that I was telling you Scn could give you or why was I so hell bent on you going forward with Scn.”
Scio: (they’d give the reason)
Me: “Are you getting that now, are you getting what I wanted you to get, or what you thought you'd get? Or, more to the point, are you being denied that now? Are the tenets of Scn which I was pushing and advocating, being practiced or even permitted within the ranks of the CofS? I encouraged you to do Scn because of .....yadda, yadda, yadda (basic tenets of Scn)....but are you applying or permitted to apply those tenets?”
Scio: (quiet)
Me: “Don’t you ask *yourself* wtf is going on? Do you not see things in direct violation of what you thought Scn was about and what was promised?”
Me: “What about KSW 1 - 10? Who is source now, LRH or DM? What about responsibility on four flows...since when does only one of the four flows count?”
Me: Don’t ya cop the condition that you don’t assign?
Me: You say I’m an anti scientologist now......of the two of us, who is the one applying the most “tech” here?
Etc, etc, etc.
It was different with everyone I spoke to, but, there was a common thread. I maintained that I stayed on track, and it was them who went off track or who got suckered into a bait and switch. I didn’t spend much time talking to anyone who wasn’t someone I very much cared about. I gave them food for thought, then gave them links to threads here on ESMB and other sites, where they could look and see for themselves.
Shredder here will tell ya (when she gets the internet on in her new abode in about a week) that when I spoke to her, I spoke about nothing except what we thought or wanted Scn to be, WASN’T SO in practice. I told her that I thought there was a reason for that, and that she should look at what that might be. I gave her links to various threads and info. Then she and Doom spent the whole weekend looking, and *found*. After the weekend, Shredder called me back and queried me about stuff she’d found and read on LRH. She was somewhat shell-shocked (understandably), so I didn’t *rub it in* or confirm in concrete.....I just said “yep, it would seem so....the more ya look at all this, the more you’ll understand it, but just take your time, and don’t rush into making conclusions.” I said to her that if she just kept her eyes open to everything and anything from varying perspectives (without trying to draw conclusions), that she would then get to a place where it would all make sense. I told her that chances are it would be a horrible ride and that I could only suggest that she hang on for dear life until it finished or got easier. I told her that every former scio I knew had gone through it, and that she could call on us or lean on us whenever she needed to.
Anyways, point of post - People got into scn and have ended up supporting it, despite the fact that it is in conflict with why they got involved in it in the first place. Most didn’t get involved to become trapped in what they are trapped in now. If ya point that out, and/or get them to look at that, it’ll help.......Pointing out other stuff either doesn’t help or makes it worse, IMO.
Scios these days have a lot right in their face, and continually. Use that which they see to get them to take the leap to look further....If you encourage them to look (without alienating them by inundating them with all the info you have), then they will have a chance to see and take the steps that they need to, to bust out.
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