Hubbard: A charlatan or just deluded?

ClearedSP

Patron with Honors
Another good example of how he was both, is what he told to Bill Frank and David Mayo: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?22265-Bill-Frank-s-story-about-brainwashing-(thread-merge)

Hubbard thinks he has a true answer, that people blow because of ARC breaks, but isn't willing to teach anyone that, since he uses the O/W explanation of blowing to maintain organizational control. This tells me that he believed he could unravel important truths, but that if they conflicted with the con, we would be taught lies instead. I'm sure he must have believed some of what he taught, but can only speculate about what those parts might have been.
 

BardoThodol

Silver Meritorious Patron
Hubbard claimed to be a scientist. He only completed two years of his CE degree and then failed. He attended one lecture on atomic physics (which I am sure he did not understand) and then called himself an atomic scientist. Then he bought a psychology Doctorate from Sequoia university, which handed out degrees without any courses or exams. Then finally he awarded himself a Doctorate degree in Scientology. So he was not a Doctor of anything. He was 100% charlatan.

But then he laid up a trap for himself. The way auditing and courses worked, if the preclear reported good results, then Scientology was working. If the results were poor, it was because the preclear was holding back or resisting. So everyone exaggerated the good results all the way up the chain, and from everything Hubbard at the top heard, Scientology techniques were producing wonders.

Not being a scientist, Hubbard knew nothing about designing experiments or running control groups to test theories. In tis respect he was far worse than Freud!

Mike

Yes, but he got around the need for experiments with his crap about agreements being reality.

His basic creed was that everything exists merely because it is created.

Because it is created, it could be created anyway you choose.

The MEST universe is merely an agreed upon creation, thus it's "truths" are simply what was created.

Needing to agree with the MEST universe traps a thetan and reduces his power.

The only way to be free of the MEST universe is to disagree with it. (after having as-ised it by noting who created it when and where, thus neutralizing the time/space/matter/energy of it.)

That he was a supreme con-artist is only one bit of information in a very complex picture.

I think in his megalomania he actually accepted his cosmology and believed he had unlocked the secrets of the universe. That he was a huckster/salesman was another part of the picture.

That he was sociopathic and narcissistic doesn't gainsay belief in his creation. A narcissist believes in his/her superiority. What could be more narcissistic than believing yourself to be the god who unlocked all the secrets of the universe and freed the beings trapped therein?

After all, eastern religions believe in consciousness trapped in the illusion of this world. The idea of freeing oneself from the trap isn't something new.

And only a very, very, very special being could possibly manage to unlock that trap and free us all.

His delusion isn't inconsistent with his other flaws.
 

prosecco

Patron Meritorious
DELUSION or SHORE STORY?
THAT is the question.

I agree with everything in the article, except for the statement: "If the entire stated premise for the creation of Dianetics was a lie, then it follows that everything that comes after it must also be a lie..." ONLY on the basis that since a lot of what came afterwards was stolen and had merit, there was a grain of truth.

Or did I miss the point?
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
I agree with everything in the article, except for the statement: "If the entire stated premise for the creation of Dianetics was a lie, then it follows that everything that comes after it must also be a lie..." ONLY on the basis that since a lot of what came afterwards was stolen and had merit, there was a grain of truth.

Or did I miss the point?

Hubbard claimed "he" "developed" a "modern $cience of Mental Health" called "Dianetics" (LIE)
and used it to cure himself from being blinded and crippled from wounds he recieved during WWII - also a big fat (LIE)

MORE:
 

Veda

Sponsor
Both.

I'll plunk this old re-post here:


A combination of method and madness. That seems to be the recurring pattern. 1938: Hubbard writes passionately about his "real goal" of attaining "immortality," not through spiritual means, but through becoming a legend by "smashing his name into history." Yet, he had just written a manuscript titled 'Excalibur', which presented a "philosophy" that extolled "Survival!" At the center of this impulse to "Survive!" would be Hubbard himself, his name, that he would smash into history. That sounds a lot like madness. Yet there was a method also.

Seventy years later, Scientology (and the "Church of Spiritual Technology") has as its (not publicized) primary mission, not helping others, not bringing spiritual freedom or enlightenment, not making a better world, but the preservation of the name of L. Ron Hubbard. That's the "real goal," the goal behind the shroud of spirituality and humanitarianism. And that's madness, but with a method.

"Xenu" and "OT 3" are a similar combination of madness and method. Having traveled to Southern Africa with high hopes of becoming Mr. Big, Hubbard was unceremoniously booted out. Why? What could cause people to reject the majesty and power and charm of L. Ron Hubbard? What engram could cause such irrational behavior? What could explain why people were not recognizing L. Ron Hubbard as the Great Man of the Age? What could it be? It would have to be something tremendous. Something overwhelming of a galactic magnitude. More madness.

Yet also a method. Hubbard wrote of the importance of "using enemy tactics," and would even use those "enemy tactics" on his own loyal followers. He had written of psychiatrists in August 1963:

"Psychiatry is authoritarian and tells the person what's wrong with him, often introducing a new lie. Scientology finds out what's wrong with the person from the person."

Soon to follow, in 1965 and 1966, would be the secret and very serious and very dangerous yet vital to one's survival "Clearing Course" and then "OT 2," and in 1967 - after Rhodesia - "OT 3" (and Xenu), in which Hubbard would do what he said the psychiatrists did. That's madness, yet with a method, with a plan.

Hubbard was already feeling the sting of rejection and ridicule - "Have you been a Boo Hoo? - when he came up with the Clearing Course.

He possibly was motivated to release OT 2 as a level after observing the popularity of John McMaster, the "first real Clear." At first glance, OT 2 looks a lot like Clearing Course part 2. Suddenly McMaster was not so "Clear" after all.

After the further sting of Southern Africa, he invented Xenu, etc.

Scientologists, of course, agreed, with their e-meters confirming it for them, and it became "reality."
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
The Clearing course and the OT III materials reflect both sides of this dichotomy (for want of a better word).

The Clearing course materials have IMHO an 'authenticity' about them. Whether or not he believed there ever was an R6 bank or not, it was very plausible that if it did exist, this is how one would have to rid oneself of it. The light, the way he described the structure and the elements of the bank itself somehow seemed to ring true. AAMOF I was delighted to find the CC stuff on the Internet 25 years after I had attested, because I didn't even get through the first 'run' and therefore never got to see what the rest of the materials contained.

The OT III narrative on the other hand is pure farce. It is a simply ludicrous fantasy and a sign that he was losing his marbles.
 

Veda

Sponsor
The Clearing course and the OT III materials reflect both sides of this dichotomy (for want of a better word).

The Clearing course materials have IMHO an 'authenticity' about them. Whether or not he believed there ever was an R6 bank or not, it was very plausible that if it did exist, this is how one would have to rid oneself of it. The light, the way he described the structure and the elements of the bank itself somehow seemed to ring true. AAMOF I was delighted to find the CC stuff on the Internet 25 years after I had attested, because I didn't even get through the first 'run' and therefore never got to see what the rest of the materials contained.

The OT III narrative on the other hand is pure farce. It is a simply ludicrous fantasy and a sign that he was losing his marbles.

Hubbard really had perfected Scientology as a psycho-political operation by 1965/66. The Clearing Course was, then, the final "look inward" level and, there, the person was told - by Hubbard on high - what was wrong with him, and what he would see, down to "the light," etc., and people - except for some old timers like Jack Horner who realized Hubbard was setting up a Rondroid assembly line - were delighted to be so told.

It was all there: Sec Checks, Disconnection, Fair Game, Ron as Source with a capital "S": perfect.

Then he went to Rhodesia and...
 

The Sloth

Patron with Honors
Hubbard really had perfected Scientology as a psycho-political operation by 1965/66. The Clearing Course was, then, the final "look inward" level and, there, the person was told - by Hubbard on high - what was wrong with him, and what he would see, down to "the light," etc., and people - except for some old timers like Jack Horner who realized Hubbard was setting up a Rondroid assembly line - were delighted to be so told.

It was all there: Sec Checks, Disconnection, Fair Game, Ron as Source with a capital "S": perfect.

Then he went to Rhodesia and...

Dressed in drag and did the Hula?

[video=youtube;Etkws_5mexg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Etkws_5mexg[/video]
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
Perhaps it's a reflection on what a shallow individual I am, but I seem to have escaped most of the deleterious psychological effects that a lot of unfortunate people have suffered as a result of their involvement with Scientology. For example, someone who I was on the RPF with in 1974 tells me he still suffers ill effects from it to this day, and the late Robert Kaufman in his book 'Inside Scientology' paints a terrifying picture of his experiences while he was doing the Clearing Course, and the damage that he felt was done to him as a result.

Whether I was seriously harmed or not and whether Hubbard was a charlatan or simply deluded, Scientology as it stands today is a vicious and evil cult, and it has to be destroyed.
 

The Sloth

Patron with Honors
Here is some info re: Hubbard in Africa which may explain my earlier comment:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?4319-The-Rhodesia-Story

As you know, Hubbard was usually very down on anyone who thought they had been a famous person in a past life. Except him, of course.

Hubbard firmly believed he was Cecil Rhodes in his previous life. In fact, one of the main reasons he went to Rhodesia was to try and discover where Rhodes had hidden his treasure. (This treasure hunting was a theme through Hubbard's later life).

Cecil Rhodes was an outrageous homosexual in his day. In order to get into the "mindset" of Rhodes, Hubbard had to take on his attributes. this is rather ironic, considering Hubbard's intolerance of gay men and women.

He got a house out in the bush, very near the Rhodesian side of the Victoria Falls. The brother in Rhodesia (We shall call him JOE) was conscripted as Hubbard's gofor. There was no telephone and one job Joe did was to arrange a land line to be installed across 40 miles of open bush.

Hubbard was networking very closely with the Rhodesian Government, led by Ian Smith, Hubbard was looking to create a safe territory for Scn.

In order to get into the part of Rhodes, Hubbard apparently used to dress up in a kaftan, turban, embroidered slippers and used a long art-deco cigarette holder. He also apparently used face rouge. (More at link.)
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
LOL

And if you can find a copy of "Mission into Time: A Test of Whole Track Recall..." the last chapter described Hubbard directing his sea org members (Stacy Young was on that one) to dig holes on some islands in the Mediterranean.. looking for where He as Cecil Rhodes buried his gold...with his E-meter....

Of course,

they found nothing.....


I've wondered if the Trementina CST Logo in the sand was a solution to that failure... so he could find the gold when he came back from the Venus Trainyard....(or wherever)..
 

BardoThodol

Silver Meritorious Patron
I started to reply to this several times and just ended up deleting what I wrote.

In the end, I guess I realized that people are just going to think what they want and interpret information as they choose. And often become incensed if you lack their great insight into what is so obvious.

Human reasoning is frail at best.

I don't know if Ser Facs actually exist, but I do know that most of us can dig into being right with unlimited passion.

In my experience, the more vehemently a person proclaims their conclusions to be right, the more wary I become. That's a problem Hubbard had. That's a problem Scientologist have. And it's a common problem.

I mostly trust those who are willing to be wrong, and who have no problem admitting when they are. I find that those are the people who are more often right, who are more fair, who will change their minds when new data is discovered.

As for Hubbard, it dawned on me (epiphany) that I just didn't really care. He's dead. Some of what he wrote made sense. But he never succeeded in bringing anyone to clear or OT. And he brought far more unhappiness into the world than happiness.

I think my cognition :coolwink: is that I'd rather spend my time enjoying the flowers in my yard rather than bickering with neighbors over what pieces of garbage in the dump on the other side of town smell the worst. Hubbard stunk up the place. But, he was only one of many pieces of garbage affecting our lives.
 
Hi, new here. Got over 10 years in. Figured this to be a good place to start.

I think ultimately he deluded himself. From where I saw his views in his writings, I think he sincerely believed what he wrote.

But, perhaps there were ulterior motives in the beginning. I have an interesting view from being in a project where so many non-Scios were run through the Book One game. It was very interesting to see how the common person was handling and applying the material. For some, it ran deep, for others, really shallow. So, it was a bit hit or miss and very seldomly, if ever, the "releases" were nothing of the magnitude of the writing in the book. However, there was some very interesting workability, if for nothing more than the apparency of the auditor caring about what the aberee said. Some guys were just more accessible than others, it appears.

Having read "Madman, Messiah", "Bare-Faced Messiah", "Going Clear" and several other books, I can see Hubbard under enormous pressure to live up to what he was selling, or shilling. Probably he patterned many or the workable aspects from other sources, but he really had a drive to get himself above the trouble right behind him in the bigamy, children, money, etc. He had to create something to ease his conscience, I think. It was catching up to him, if his "Admissions" are any indication. What better way to do this than to "save the world"! Then all is straight. (Reminds me a bit of the Fear book he wrote.) So, dust off some old therapies, consider a few tricks from self or better auditors and write the book. Didn't go so well as he had to come back with Advanced Procedures. That one gets pretty complicated. Let's go hardcore spiritual bent. Oh ho - lots of fun with a meter. On and on it goes. Had to keep developing the newer, better thing to keep people coming back for more - but personally justified as let's make things more easier and efficient. Which expands to all the training aspects, Objectives, etc. Hell, let's just build a bridge.

So, I think he created for himself this salvation, which ultimately ended as a pretty bad fate, because it wasn't any real salvation, and this was his own realization at the end.

But, Midge, I think he thinks it's a scam, now. Might have been a loyal follower before, but I think he knows its BS now. No other way to explain the current push of donations over service as a primary money making activity. His hell will be worse. (As I write this, I can almost imagine Midge having nightmares of a zombified Management Structure escaping the Hole and going after him with his inhaler.)

My two cents...
 

Gib

Crusader
I started to reply to this several times and just ended up deleting what I wrote.

In the end, I guess I realized that people are just going to think what they want and interpret information as they choose. And often become incensed if you lack their great insight into what is so obvious.

Human reasoning is frail at best.

I don't know if Ser Facs actually exist, but I do know that most of us can dig into being right with unlimited passion.

In my experience, the more vehemently a person proclaims their conclusions to be right, the more wary I become. That's a problem Hubbard had. That's a problem Scientologist have. And it's a common problem.

I mostly trust those who are willing to be wrong, and who have no problem admitting when they are. I find that those are the people who are more often right, who are more fair, who will change their minds when new data is discovered.

As for Hubbard, it dawned on me (epiphany) that I just didn't really care. He's dead. Some of what he wrote made sense. But he never succeeded in bringing anyone to clear or OT. And he brought far more unhappiness into the world than happiness.

I think my cognition :coolwink: is that I'd rather spend my time enjoying the flowers in my yard rather than bickering with neighbors over what pieces of garbage in the dump on the other side of town smell the worst. Hubbard stunk up the place. But, he was only one of many pieces of garbage affecting our lives.

Are you not experiencing the "allegory of of the cave" ? How to communicate to those trapped in the cave?

You are one, like me and others, who was released from the cave for whatever reason, and now wish to explain to those still trapped in the cave, that the illusions they see on the wall (or in their minds), are not real, but created by Hubbard AKA Scientology/Dianetics, and he Hubbard used words alone to entrap.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?36524-Philosophy-(including-Scientology)-in-one-lesson

From TAJ in his opening post:

"The Allegory of the Cave is an explanation of learning and understanding. (And I once thought that was what Scientology was about!)"

So how does one persuade people to leave the cave?

I'm curious as to your answer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axARKd24eHo
 
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programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
<snip>
In the end, I guess I realized that people are just going to think what they want and interpret information as they choose.

<snip>

The term for that is "Confirmation Bias".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
http://grammar.about.com/od/c/g/Confirmation-Bias.htm

ALL humans are guilty of that to greater or lessor extents.
(IMO, that is one reason why we have scientific methods to counter-act this tendency that we all have.)
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
I think Nibs lets us know what Ron was all about.

Any discovery in Scientology is immediately put to task as a form of manipulation and control...right down to the dust jacket cover art restimulating wogs to buy. There's mention of the ARC X as the source of blows as opposed to the Missed W/H and the correct analysis that any truth we got was deemed OK in that we remained as slaves as opposed to gaining any sort of freedom and the con was forwarded.

The Ronsense was all about soul cracking, slaves, money, power, prestige, HIP! HIP! That shit don't happen in a Clear society - ever wonder why they can't show one Motherfuckin' Clear? Ever wonder why there's been so much more bad than good from Ron's "Church"?

If somebody were to come out with "tech" that produced Clears Ron would've been the first to denounce them and attack...the same goes for his "Church" today.

Read the lord voltar thread and realize that Ron was writing this tripe when he should've been writing OT levels beyond VIII if his intention were to ever Clear the planet.

Intention is Cause - remember? What does Scientology cause?
 
Yes, but he got around the need for experiments with his crap about agreements being reality.

His basic creed was that everything exists merely because it is created.

Because it is created, it could be created anyway you choose.

The MEST universe is merely an agreed upon creation, thus it's "truths" are simply what was created.

Needing to agree with the MEST universe traps a thetan and reduces his power.

The only way to be free of the MEST universe is to disagree with it. (after having as-ised it by noting who created it when and where, thus neutralizing the time/space/matter/energy of it.)

That he was a supreme con-artist is only one bit of information in a very complex picture.

I think in his megalomania he actually accepted his cosmology and believed he had unlocked the secrets of the universe. That he was a huckster/salesman was another part of the picture.

That he was sociopathic and narcissistic doesn't gainsay belief in his creation. A narcissist believes in his/her superiority. What could be more narcissistic than believing yourself to be the god who unlocked all the secrets of the universe and freed the beings trapped therein?

After all, eastern religions believe in consciousness trapped in the illusion of this world. The idea of freeing oneself from the trap isn't something new.

And only a very, very, very special being could possibly manage to unlock that trap and free us all.

His delusion isn't inconsistent with his other flaws.

what delusion?

the cat was riffing; gettin' in his licks and chops

and makin' a buck which i do not begrudge him

the thing to do was give him his space and pick through it after he split...
 
Hi, new here. Got over 10 years in. Figured this to be a good place to start.

I think ultimately he deluded himself. From where I saw his views in his writings, I think he sincerely believed what he wrote.

But, perhaps there were ulterior motives in the beginning. I have an interesting view from being in a project where so many non-Scios were run through the Book One game. It was very interesting to see how the common person was handling and applying the material. For some, it ran deep, for others, really shallow. So, it was a bit hit or miss and very seldomly, if ever, the "releases" were nothing of the magnitude of the writing in the book. However, there was some very interesting workability, if for nothing more than the apparency of the auditor caring about what the aberee said. Some guys were just more accessible than others, it appears.

Having read "Madman, Messiah", "Bare-Faced Messiah", "Going Clear" and several other books, I can see Hubbard under enormous pressure to live up to what he was selling, or shilling. Probably he patterned many or the workable aspects from other sources, but he really had a drive to get himself above the trouble right behind him in the bigamy, children, money, etc. He had to create something to ease his conscience, I think. It was catching up to him, if his "Admissions" are any indication. What better way to do this than to "save the world"! Then all is straight. (Reminds me a bit of the Fear book he wrote.) So, dust off some old therapies, consider a few tricks from self or better auditors and write the book. Didn't go so well as he had to come back with Advanced Procedures. That one gets pretty complicated. Let's go hardcore spiritual bent. Oh ho - lots of fun with a meter. On and on it goes. Had to keep developing the newer, better thing to keep people coming back for more - but personally justified as let's make things more easier and efficient. Which expands to all the training aspects, Objectives, etc. Hell, let's just build a bridge.

So, I think he created for himself this salvation, which ultimately ended as a pretty bad fate, because it wasn't any real salvation, and this was his own realization at the end.

But, Midge, I think he thinks it's a scam, now. Might have been a loyal follower before, but I think he knows its BS now. No other way to explain the current push of donations over service as a primary money making activity. His hell will be worse. (As I write this, I can almost imagine Midge having nightmares of a zombified Management Structure escaping the Hole and going after him with his inhaler.)

My two cents...

welcome AT!!!
 
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