Hubbard: A charlatan or just deluded?

BardoThodol

Silver Meritorious Patron
Are you not experiencing the "allegory of of the cave" ? How to communicate to those trapped in the cave?

You are one, like me and others, who was released from the cave for whatever reason, and now wish to explain to those still trapped in the cave, that the illusions they see on the wall (or in their minds), are not real, but created by Hubbard AKA Scientology/Dianetics, and he Hubbard used words alone to entrap.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?36524-Philosophy-(including-Scientology)-in-one-lesson

From TAJ in his opening post:



So how does one persuade people to leave the cave?

I'm curious as to your answer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axARKd24eHo

Gib,

I've been experiencing the allegory of the cave since long before Scientology.

And it's not just Scientologists, as you know. It applies to ex-Scientologists, anti-Scientologist also. I watch the news and just want to scream after the idiocy that passes as reporting.

I watch individuals spend their entire lives studying some subject (including Scientology pro and con) and still being incapable of analyzing the information with any kind of accuracy or broad intelligence. Too much bias. Too much focusing on one aspect which they like and excluding any information that gainsays their bias. Too many shadows.

How does one persuade people to leave the cave?

I don't have a clue.

People seem to like caves. You talk them into leaving one, and the first thing you know, they've found another. Too much sun, so they need some shade. Too much rain so they need shelter.

Scientology sucks, but I still use the study approach of "how is it this way, how isn't it that way?" I look for information that proves and disproves. And I try to include as much experience and information as I can when trying to understand something.

Leaving a cave is simply a matter of moving in a direction and finding the next place to put your foot until you're suddenly outside, looking at something completely different. Substitute thoughts for steps. Moving your mind and ideas in a direction and studying where it leads and how you got there.

Someone who won't take mental or physical steps will never leave their cave.

And when such a person finds themselves unceremoniously thrust outside their cave, they'll tend to quickly find another and desperately dig in deeper.
 

BardoThodol

Silver Meritorious Patron
The term for that is "Confirmation Bias".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
http://grammar.about.com/od/c/g/Confirmation-Bias.htm

ALL humans are guilty of that to greater or lessor extents.
(IMO, that is one reason why we have scientific methods to counter-act this tendency that we all have.)

Thanks for the references.

But...

But...

But... You wrote, "ALL humans are guilty of that to greater or lessor extents."

Uh, that's a big fat generality.

And we know how harmful generalities can be.

:roflmao:

A clear doesn't have this "confirmation bias" you refer to. He or she has no held down sevens. blah, blah, blah.

Except there's never been a clear and never will be.

On second thought, maybe you're right.

I just heard some distant thunder. Think I'll head back into my cave.
 

Gib

Crusader
The term for that is "Confirmation Bias".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
http://grammar.about.com/od/c/g/Confirmation-Bias.htm

ALL humans are guilty of that to greater or lessor extents.
(IMO, that is one reason why we have scientific methods to counter-act this tendency that we all have.)

oh, you mean the sheeple effect:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheeple

And once one is convinced scientology works, its the sheeple effect.

There goes critical thinking. It's all the sheeple.
 

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
IMO, Hubbard was BOTH a charlatan AND deluded:

1. he was deluded in thinking that so-called, weird occasional OT phenomena (really schizophrenic experiences) was real,

2. he was a charlatan in claiming that he had "The Bridge" that would provide the REAL total state of OT.

It's interesting to remember that this all started with the notion of engrams and chains of engrams (which don't exist as they are described in DMSMH) AND ended up with auditing, so-called, BTs. Wow!
 
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Demented LRH

Patron Meritorious
Hubbard knew that Dianetics is hogwash because it didn’t cure him from nonexistent war injuries. But he believed in the theta idea as his medical records presented at Wikileaks show – he spent some time in the VA mental ward where he had hallucinations about the evil galactic ruler and evil spirits whom he called thetans. Thus he was a charlatan and a hallucinating psycho at the same time.
 
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