Hubbard didn't like it when you shone.

DartSmohen

Silver Meritorious Patron
The one thing Hubbard could not stand was if someone displayed abilities or was successful to a point where they "dimmed his own light":faceslap:

In about 1966, Beth Fordyce submitted a report on her use of "Book of Case Remedies". This was highly acclaimed, Hubbard awarded her a Doctorate of Scientology and there was a front page spread all about her in the Auditor issue. Beth worked at a E.US org and her fame grew as she was acknowledged far and wide.

Hubbard was clearly upset by all this praise for her and set about undermining her and destroying her reputation. Within a couple of years she was a declared SP.

John MacMaster, the first Clear, was hailed everywhere he went. He enthralled and inspired audiences all over the world. He was a huge Scientology celebrity. Hubbard saw him as a threat to his own "aura" and set about destroying him. He was, of course, declared SP.

Most of the Sea Project crew in 1967 were far more able and spiritually aware than Hubbard was, especially as he was handicapped by the wide array of druge he was taking. His answer was to disband the Sea Project.

Later on, people such as Alan Walter, Carl Barney, Dean Stokes and others had set up multiple missions that brought in the bulk of Scientology's income. At one time, over one third of all the public at St Hill came from Alan's centres. Once ASHO was set up, it was the same there.

What happened? They were systematically got rid of and their missions stolen from them. They are no longer a part of that group.

What about the first 1,000 clears? How many of them are still in the cult? Probably no more than a small handfull. Again, if they became too bright and successful they got chopped, one way or the other. Those left in the cult are probably "low wattage" anyway.

Bill Robertson was the finest missionaire we had. He had presence and charisma. He had a position and spoke with authority. We know what happened to him.

Otto Roos was a top auditor and exec for many years. He did a study of Hubbard's folders and compiled a list of "Rock Slams". He was screamed at, abused and thrown off the ship.

In later years he became a successful businessman, He ruefully said one day that if he had called them "Special Reads", he might still be in the cult (Boy, does fate have a way of saving your ass):ohmy:

I have seen MANY good, decent and successful people be broken down by the cult regimes.:angry:

There seems to be an underlaying equation; If we cannot have anything, then why should you.:grouch:

This was a mindset that Hubbard engineered in place. Do not let anyone rise above the dross. That way only he can he adored and venerated.

It was amusing to think back to scenes in the Registrar's office where a couple of execs and the reg, who didn't have two pennies between them to scratch their arses with, hypocritically hectoring some poor schmuck because he would not sell his house, give his money to the cult and join staff.

There are many, many others who have been destroyed by Hubbard and his goons. Perhaps you might know of some and tell their story too.
 

Kathy (ImOut)

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thank you for sharing these stories. I think it brought up a past life memory. And the memory explains a few things that's been happening to me over the last couple of years.
 

Veda

Sponsor
The one thing Hubbard could not stand was if someone displayed abilities or was successful to a point where they "dimmed his own light":faceslap:

In about 1966, Beth Fordyce submitted a report on her use of "Book of Case Remedies". This was highly acclaimed, Hubbard awarded her a Doctorate of Scientology and there was a front page spread all about her in the Auditor issue. Beth worked at a E.US org and her fame grew as she was acknowledged far and wide.

Hubbard was clearly upset by all this praise for her and set about undermining her and destroying her reputation. Within a couple of years she was a declared SP.

John MacMaster, the first Clear, was hailed everywhere he went. He enthralled and inspired audiences all over the world. He was a huge Scientology celebrity. Hubbard saw him as a threat to his own "aura" and set about destroying him. He was, of course, declared SP.

Most of the Sea Project crew in 1967 were far more able and spiritually aware than Hubbard was, especially as he was handicapped by the wide array of druge he was taking. His answer was to disband the Sea Project.

Later on, people such as Alan Walter, Carl Barney, Dean Stokes and others had set up multiple missions that brought in the bulk of Scientology's income. At one time, over one third of all the public at St Hill came from Alan's centres. Once ASHO was set up, it was the same there.

What happened? They were systematically got rid of and their missions stolen from them. They are no longer a part of that group.

What about the first 1,000 clears? How many of them are still in the cult? Probably no more than a small handfull. Again, if they became too bright and successful they got chopped, one way or the other. Those left in the cult are probably "low wattage" anyway.

Bill Robertson was the finest missionaire we had. He had presence and charisma. He had a position and spoke with authority. We know what happened to him.

Otto Roos was a top auditor and exec for many years. He did a study of Hubbard's folders and compiled a list of "Rock Slams". He was screamed at, abused and thrown off the ship.

In later years he became a successful businessman, He ruefully said one day that if he had called them "Special Reads", he might still be in the cult (Boy, does fate have a way of saving your ass):ohmy:

I have seen MANY good, decent and successful people be broken down by the cult regimes.:angry:

There seems to be an underlaying equation; If we cannot have anything, then why should you.:grouch:

This was a mindset that Hubbard engineered in place. Do not let anyone rise above the dross. That way only he can he adored and venerated.

It was amusing to think back to scenes in the Registrar's office where a couple of execs and the reg, who didn't have two pennies between them to scratch their arses with, hypocritically hectoring some poor schmuck because he would not sell his house, give his money to the cult and join staff.

There are many, many others who have been destroyed by Hubbard and his goons. Perhaps you might know of some and tell their story too.

These information-packed posts are much appreciated.

Perhaps you could answer a question about the time-line of OT 2 and OT 3.

Was there ever a time when there was an OT 2 and no OT 3?

Is there anything to the idea that what has sometimes been called "The Clearing Course, part 2" (OT 2) came about to dethrone John McMaster from his place of "the first real Clear," since there was "another bank"?

From what I can discern, OT 2 and OT 3 appear around the same time, but it's hard to find definite info on this.

(Question also for Alan.)
 

Alan

Gold Meritorious Patron
These information-packed posts are much appreciated.

Perhaps you could answer a question about the time-line of OT 2 and OT 3.

Was there ever a time when there was an OT 2 and no OT 3?

Is there anything to the idea that what has sometimes been called "The Clearing Course, part 2" (OT 2) came about to dethrone John McMaster from his place of "the first real Clear," since there was "another bank"?

Not that I ever heard of.

John McMaster, Clear 1, John Imburgia, Clear 2 and I, Clear 8 did a world tour in late 1966 - early 67 as the first Clears.

From what I can discern, OT 2 and OT 3 appear around the same time, but it's hard to find definite info on this.

(Question also for Alan.)

OT II was finished in 1964 - (Jack Horner and I did a lot of the preliminary research - we did tell LRH that it was implant material - LRH finished it later that year.) - was not issued until mid to late 1966.

OT III was handwritten by LRH, run off and issued in mid Jan 1968.

Alan
 
Last edited:

Veda

Sponsor
OT II was finished in 1964 - (Jack Horner and I did a lot of the research - we did tell LRH that it was implant material - LRH finished it later that year.) - was not issued until mid to late 1966.

OT III was handwritten, run off and issued in mid Jan 1968.

Alan

Thanks much for the info.

A few more questions.

What was the interval between The Clearing Course being released, with the comment that this was it, and that all that was needed now was to do drills such as "Route 1" to attain OT, and the release of OT 2?

For how long was John McMaster "Clear #1" before Hubbard released OT 2?
 

Alan

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thanks much for the info.

A few more questions.

What was the interval between The Clearing Course being released, with the comment that this was it, and that all that was needed now was to do drills such as "Route 1" to attain OT, and the release of OT 2?

THE CC was released around March(?) 1965 - most of us were on it about a year before we completed it - we took the material home with us in those days.

For how long was John McMaster "Clear #1" before Hubbard released OT 2?

About a year.

During our Clear Tour we ran into a lot of clears, "Route 1" OT I's that had caved in - we sent the data to LRH.

OT II was about to be released around that time.

Very charged times - LRH was beginning to act very strange (violent mood swings) during that time.

Alan
 

Veda

Sponsor
THE CC was released around March(?) 1965 - most of us were on it about a year before we completed it - we took the material home with us in those days.



About a year.

During our Clear Tour we ran into a lot of clears, "Route 1" OT I's that had caved in - we sent the data to LRH.

OT II was about to be released around that time.

Very charged times - LRH was beginning to act very strange (violent mood swings) during that time.

Alan

It's great to be able to ask these questions.

Hope you don't mind; I've a few more.

In the early 1980s I spoke with Jack Horner and asked him about OT 3. His response startled me at the time. He said, "That was something Ron dreamt up," and dismissed it. I never asked him about OT 2, but had the impression that he wasn't using anything like it in his practice.

Judging from your comments on OT 2 - in earlier posts - you also don't recommend OT 2.

Why not?
 

Colleen K. Peltomaa

Silver Meritorious Patron
I was one of the first 1000 Clears and even today in this body I still retain OT abilities without their restimulators kicking back on me.

From what you are saying about Hubbard I can only imagine why I died young last lifetime.
 

Alan

Gold Meritorious Patron
It's great to be able to ask these questions.

Hope you don't mind; I've a few more.

In the early 1980s I spoke with Jack Horner and asked him about OT 3. His response startled me at the time. He said, "That was something Ron dreamt up," and dismissed it. I never asked him about OT 2, but had the impression that he wasn't using anything like it in his practice.

Judging from your comments on OT 2 - in earlier posts - you also don't recommend OT 2.

Why not?

I just process what comes up.

I've found that the "case" or "game" the person is playing just unfolds naturally if you follow where pc's attention is, interest line, wants and goals line.

Rarely do I need to push the pc earlier - best processing is pc stays in PT and the past or future comes to view naturally.

I have all the other tools, plus many more - but they are only used as needed.

Most peoples difficulties are in PT - having an F/Ning expanding PT is marvelous. :happydance: :happydance: :happydance:

Auditing in many cases is used to hide or get away from the fears of PT. :grouch:

What happens is the pc's PT space expands as the charge is taken off - thus the past just blows to view.

Alan
 

Alan

Gold Meritorious Patron
What you just said is almost exactly what John Galusha would say and I find that his processes work very well.

All the old master processors - processed that way - but this goes much further.

But thats not really the problem - we need a few thousand people who can do this - and are willing to apply it to others.

The biggest difficulties are in learning to handle your newly restored abilities - how to operate without committing harm in the higher Zones.

How to reposition yourself in life so you are in the right place at the right time, able to fully utilize the increase power and energy you now have.

In other words - get out of the "in your head" processing to turning it into "life processing." :D

Alan
 

Veda

Sponsor
I just process what comes up.

I've found that the "case" or "game" the person is playing just unfolds naturally if you follow where pc's attention is, interest line, wants and goals line.

Rarely do I need to push the pc earlier - best processing is pc stays in PT and the past or future comes to view naturally.

I have all the other tools, plus many more - but they are only used as needed.

Most peoples difficulties are in PT - having an F/Ning expanding PT is marvelous. :happydance: :happydance: :happydance:

Auditing in many cases is used to hide or get away from the fears of PT. :grouch:

What happens is the pc's PT space expands as the charge is taken off - thus the past just blows to view.

Alan

Your view is similar to mine, and to others, and similar to comments made by Hubbard on 14 August 1963, during a lecture - in this instance couched in a description of psychiatry:

"Psychiatry is authoritarian and tells a person what's wrong with him, often introducing a new lie. Scientology finds out what's wrong with the person from the person."

Yet several months earlier on 8 March 1963 in an HCOB (not found in the Red Volumes) - during what seemed a tentative, or tactful?, slow abandoning of the running of actual (not implant) "GPMs" (Goals, Problems, Mass) - Hubbard wrote:

"An implant is an electronic means of overwhelming a thetan with a significance."

Is it cynical to suggest that the e-meter had become that "electronic means" - or was soon to become it? - with people, reading their super-hyped secret materials, and watching their meters "tell them" ?

Hubbard continued in the now confidential HCOB, "Use was made of the actual patterns of living to impress and entrap a thetan and force obedience to behavior patterns."

Was there just enough truth in the soon to presented "deadly serious" confidential materials to "impress and trap" ? And was the e-meter to be used - in the levels where people are not asked, but told, the contents of their own minds and space - as an "electronic means of overwhelming a thetan with a significance"?

Why did Hubbard abandon his very sane outlook of "ask the person" ?

My view is that it was a combination of unfortunate happenstance, and long range implementation of a hidden agenda, one dating back to at least 1938.

Hubbard seems to have had a detailed master plan, and even laid it out, step by step, in the (his title) 'Brainwashing Manual'. Would this plan have been activated if things had gone differently? Was it THE PLAN, or simply "plan B" if things went sour for Hubbard?

Whatever the answer, it was the plan that was implemented.

Recovering from the effects of that implemented plan, which may have included Hubbard becoming - in effect - the "Implanter," and sorting out the subject, so as to recover the best in the subject, and also tracing back the actual origins of the subject, is quite a task.
 

Alan

Gold Meritorious Patron
Your view is similar to mine, and to others, and similar to comments made by Hubbard on 14 August 1963, during a lecture - in this instance couched in a description of psychiatry:

"Psychiatry is authoritarian and tells a person what's wrong with him, often introducing a new lie. Scientology finds out what's wrong with the person from the person."

Yet several months earlier on 8 March 1963 in an HCOB (not found in the Red Volumes) - during what seemed a tentative, or tactful?, slow abandoning of the running of actual (not implant) "GPMs" (Goals, Problems, Mass) - Hubbard wrote:

"An implant is an electronic means of overwhelming a thetan with a significance."

Is it cynical to suggest that the e-meter had become that "electronic means" - or was soon to become it? - with people, reading their super-hyped secret materials, and watching their meters "tell them" ?

Hubbard continued in the now confidential HCOB, "Use was made of the actual patterns of living to impress and entrap a thetan and force obedience to behavior patterns."

Was there just enough truth in the soon to presented "deadly serious" confidential materials to "impress and trap" ? And was the e-meter to be used - in the levels where people are not asked, but told, the contents of their own minds and space - as an "electronic means of overwhelming a thetan with a significance"?

Why did Hubbard abandon his very sane outlook of "ask the person" ?

My view is that it was a combination of unfortunate happenstance, and long range implementation of a hidden agenda, one dating back to at least 1938.

Hubbard seems to have had a detailed master plan, and even laid it out, step by step, in the (his title) 'Brainwashing Manual'. Would this plan have been activated if things had gone differently? Was it THE PLAN, or simply "plan B" if things went sour for Hubbard?

Whatever the answer, it was the plan that was implemented.

Recovering from the effects of that implemented plan, which may have included Hubbard becoming - in effect - the "Implanter," and sorting out the subject, so as to recover the best in the subject, and also tracing back the actual origins of the subject, is quite a task.

If you really get the full concepts of Universes, Games and Identities and how they are formed and how they degrade - you can actuall see that when LRH was making his affirmations, he was in fact activating all sides of the Games Packages.

In '63 he started going more and more to the negative or darkside.

As time wore on you could observe him "flipping" from one side or the other and ranging from the most powerful top identity opposing powerful opterms to the bottom type drug/alcohol addicted identities opposing victim type identities.

I was too naive in those days to fully observe this........but I did observe some of it.

When he was just being himself - he was incredible, brilliant, huge, warm, fun, joyful and incredibly adventurous. Alas that was rare.

The whole thing was very confusing.....apparently I tended to put him in the power identities......but that too was a trap - as soon as you walked way he would "flip" and begin to unmock you.

Very complex - the best and worse of man. :bigcry:

Brilliant and brilliantly stupid! :grouch:

Alan
 

Kathy (ImOut)

Gold Meritorious Patron
If you really get the full concepts of Universes, Games and Identities and how they are formed and how they degrade - you can actuall see that when LRH was making his affirmations, he was in fact activating all sides of the Games Packages.

In '63 he started going more and more to the negative or darkside.

As time wore on you could observe him "flipping" from one side or the other and ranging from the most powerful top identity opposing powerful opterms to the bottom type drug/alcohol addicted identities opposing victim type identities.

I was too naive in those days to fully observe this........but I did observe some of it.

When he was just being himself - he was incredible, brilliant, huge, warm, fun, joyful and incredibly adventurous. Alas that was rare.

The whole thing was very confusing.....apparently I tended to put him in the power identities......but that too was a trap - as soon as you walked way he would "flip" and begin to unmock you.

Very complex - the best and worse of man. :bigcry:

Brilliant and brilliantly stupid! :grouch:

Alan

Thanks for sharing this Alan. More is coming back to me. I guess in the 50s he was being more "warm and fuzzy". But there was still that "something" that you (actually I) couldn't spot.
 

Colleen K. Peltomaa

Silver Meritorious Patron
All the old master processors - processed that way - but this goes much further.

But thats not really the problem - we need a few thousand people who can do this - and are willing to apply it to others.

The biggest difficulties are in learning to handle your newly restored abilities - how to operate without committing harm in the higher Zones.

How to reposition yourself in life so you are in the right place at the right time, able to fully utilize the increase power and energy you now have.

In other words - get out of the "in your head" processing to turning it into "life processing." :D

Alan

That will have to be tested. My newly restored abilities have been more to do with social responses. My next research project with my hubbie is to remove any counterinfluences to his natural telepathic abilities. I will treat any opposition as a stuck identity.
 

grundy

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thank you for sharing these stories. I think it brought up a past life memory. And the memory explains a few things that's been happening to me over the last couple of years.

I was one of the first 1000 Clears and even today in this body I still retain OT abilities without their restimulators kicking back on me.

From what you are saying about Hubbard I can only imagine why I died young last lifetime.

DAMN .. And I thought I was the only one. Was SO last lifetime (mid-late 60s), died, and ended up SO this lifetime. Got involved this lifetime because the ED of the local org was a guy (since passed) that had worked at Saint Hill when I was there doing the Clearing Course.
 

DartSmohen

Silver Meritorious Patron
That will have to be tested. My newly restored abilities have been more to do with social responses. My next research project with my hubbie is to remove any counterinfluences to his natural telepathic abilities. I will treat any opposition as a stuck identity.


Start off by both of you just being there, expanding your own spaces and intermingling. Hold that for a while (use no effort).

You might just be pleased with the results.:yes:

DS
 
Top