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Hubbard on sex with little boys

Bill

Gold Meritorious Patron
It IS written that policy(green on white) and tech(red on white) are SENIOR to all other issues. Much of what has gone on and still goes on in the various orgs is OFF POLICY and OUT TECH. IMHO.
Sorry, you must not have read the FULL policies nor seen them applied in orgs exactly as Hubbard intended, to trap people, to abuse people, to defraud people, to degrade people. You are obviously ignorant and inexperienced in the REAL application of Hubbard's policies exactly as he intended.

This is precisely what a True Believer does: Discount all the abuse, crimes and fraud that are specifically and exactly per Hubbard's policy and tech because "Ron is so very wise and wonderful and would never, ever do anything bad!!" -- no matter what their own eyes see.

The very worst of Scientology's abuses are very much STANDARD TECH.
 

Koot

Patron with Honors
You can have whatever considerations you wish regarding what policy is senior to what.

Here's the facts of life, though, if you are a Scientologist: DM has absolute power to have you declared under whatever pretext he chooses. All else follows from this one datum. You have no right of appeal to any court over the Church hierarchy not following whatever policy you think they should be following. If DM issues an order, that's that. Obey or be declared. If DM chooses to re-issue green-on-white and red-on-white yet again, making whatever revisions he chooses in order to "correct errors made in the past by suppressives alter-ising LRH's original notes", then that's that. And no, you will have no right to look at the "original notes" to see for yourself.

Of course, if you choose to form your own independent Scn group and decide that only the pre-1985 policies and bulletins will be followed, then that's cool by me.
DM is not my friend. I share your distaste of the present regime.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Have a link to the affidavit?
I did at one time by way of the 1982 Clearwater Commission on Scientology, but it has disappeared.

The longest excerpt of which I know can be found in the chapter, I let him undress me without resisting, in the book, L. Ron Hubbard, Messiah or Madman?

Madman? changes Bailey's name to Heidi Forrester and changes the name of one other person, but all other names are as the original.

This chapter is an oddity, and was not necessary for the book. To that extent it is a distraction.

If you want to continue this discussion further may I suggest starting another thread.
 

Veda

Sponsor
I would disagree. Anything in the "secretive" section is purely out of context and is JUNIOR to HCOBs, PLs, LRH EDs and Basic books.
That's what Hubbard told you.

I your opinion did Ron ever lie to you, mislead you, or manipulate you, about anything important?
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
I am sure you have valid complaints. I just don't think Ron intended most of the horrendous mis-applications and suppressive sales actions that have and still do occur. May your future be bright.
Everything and anything to do with scientology will always be based on hubbard's very precise and exact instructions and intentions ... and you know it is.


:D
 

Koot

Patron with Honors
That's what Hubbard told you.

I your opinion did Ron ever lie to you, mislead you, or manipulate you, about anything important?
Good question!!!------------------------------------------------------------------------- About the only thing I come up with is the definition and procedure for "clear", however, I see that as a line of investigation that moves forward to improve the science/procedure and newly revealed phenomena.
 

Veda

Sponsor
I would disagree. Anything in the "secretive" section is purely out of context and is JUNIOR to HCOBs, PLs, LRH EDs and Basic books.
It's the opposite.

There is a Hidden Data Line and always has been.

Do yo ever wonder why Scientology, after making thousands of Clears and OTs (or pre OTS), was taken over by a sociopath like David Miscavige?

How did these "Clears" and "OTs" allow this to happen?
 

Koot

Patron with Honors
Everything and anything to do with scientology will always be based on hubbard's very precise and exact instructions and intentions ... and you know it is.


:D
I don't think so. I think there is money to be made and crimes to be hidden, not to mention plain old grade 4 masturbation.
 

TomKat

Patron Meritorious
On 7 March 1965, one month after the appearance of 'KSW', was published 'Suppressive Acts, Suppression of Scientology and Scientologists, the Fair Game Law':

A Suppressive person or group becomes 'fair game'.
By Fair Game is meant, without rights for self, possessions or position, and no Scientologist may be brought before a Committee of Evidence or punished for any action taken against a Suppressive Person or group...
Suppressive acts are defined as actions or omissions undertaken to knowingly suppress, reduce, or impede Scientology or Scientologists.
Such suppressive acts include public disavowal of Scientology... public statements against Scientology.
[Suppressive acts also include] continued membership in a divergent group; continued adherence to a suppressive person or group pronounced a suppressive person or group by HCO; failure to handle, or disavow, or disconnect from a person demonstrably guilty of suppressive acts; being at the hire of anti-Scientology groups or persons.
[Suppressive acts also include] 1st degree murder, arson, disintegration of persons or belongings not [underlining added] guilty of suppressive acts.
[Suppressive Persons] place themselves beyond any consideration for their feelings :nazi:or well being...
The homes, property, places, and abodes of persons who have been active in attempting to suppress Scientology... are all beyond any protection.

______

Do you think the above is evil?​

Since you changed the subject from the 3 videos to Scientology in general, I'll have to take that as an admission that I'm right.
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
Good question!!!------------------------------------------------------------------------- About the only thing I come up with is the definition and procedure for "clear", however, I see that as a line of investigation that moves forward to improve the science/procedure and newly revealed phenomena.

What definition would you have preferred for his imaginary clear?
 

Koot

Patron with Honors
It's the opposite.

There is a Hidden Data Line and always has been.

Do yo ever wonder why Scientology, after making thousands of Clears and OTs (or pre OTS), was taken over by a sociopath like David Miscavige?

How did these "Clears" and "OTs" allow this to happen?
I have been confused by that idea myself. It brings to mind Manson. How did he do it?
 

TomKat

Patron Meritorious
I have studied and applied some of Hubbard's philosophy(10 years,mostly staff,mostly tech trained) with an honest desire to learn. I like what I have learned. It has helped me to live a better, more productive life as per my point of view. I was helped and have helped others by using what tech I had/have. I have my own horror stories from being on staff but I chose to proceed every step of the way until I didn't. I do not fault the tech for the bull shit in the org/s (missions included). The viewpoint I have taken from this whole process has served me/is serving me, well. As far a LRH, well, he was human and I forgive him for his errors and short comings. I think what he has put forth far out weighs his foibles.
I mostly agree. Hubbard was always a dodgy character, but a brilliant one. But the decades of drug taking and then the absolute power on the high seas corrupted him absolutely and he became a tyrant and occasional sadist. I've always suspected that his definition of an SP was his own insight into his own shadow self.
 

Koot

Patron with Honors
What definition would you have preferred for his imaginary clear?
The def. is fine it's just that it kept getting farther and farther away. I still think the state(as defined) has not been achieved . Having said that, I think the gains all along the way mentally and spiritually are wonderful and very worthwhile(I speak for myself). I had minimal processing and some training. Cl IV perm and Gr 0 comp I can not speak for anything above that. At this stage, I got more from training than processing.
 

Koot

Patron with Honors
I mostly agree. Hubbard was always a dodgy character, but a brilliant one. But the decades of drug taking and then the absolute power on the high seas corrupted him absolutely and he became a tyrant and occasional sadist. I've always suspected that his definition of an SP was his own insight into his own shadow self.
He did say that we all have some of the sp characteristics and I will vouch for that. The SP has nothing else, supposedly.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Worthy of examination but hardly an indictment. Lots of hearsay surrounds this book that has no Hubbard on it. Just accusations from others.
Suggest you read the links provided, notably Brainwashing Manual Parallels.

_______​

Messiah or Madman?


The book L. Ron Hubbard, Messiah or Madman? has been published in three English language editions, each further revised and updated
(1987, 1992, and 1996.) There is also a hardbound Russian language edition that became available in 2005.

Unlike most other books on Scientology, 'Messiah or Madman?' examines both the "positives" and "negatives" of the subject. Part of its purpose was to inoculate others from the tricks and abuses of Scientology.

An excerpt from the book flap for the 464 page 1996 edition:


"I have high hopes of smashing my name
into history so violently that it will take a
legendary form even if all the books are
destroyed. That goal is the real goal as far as
I am concerned. Things which stand too
consistently in my way make me nervous.
It's a pretty big job. In a hundred years
Roosevelt will have been forgotten - which
gives some idea of the magnitude of my
attempt. And all this boils and froths inside
my head...
"Psychiatrists, reaching the high of the
dusty desk, tell us that Alexander, Genghis
Khan and Napoleon were madmen. I know
they're maligning some very intelligent
gentlemen."

L. Ron Hubbard wrote these words in a letter to
his first wife in 1938.

In 1950 he wrote the bestseller 'Dianetics, the
Modern Science of Mental Health. This inspired a
layman oriented mental health movement which,
ultimately, developed into Scientology, the most
profitable of the money-making new religions.

Hubbard's early Dianetic and Scientology writings
borrow freely from Sigmund Freud, Carl Jung, and
the founder of General Semantics, Alfred Korzybski.

And P.T. Barnum appears to have been an inspiration.

Hubbard also took much from the writings of Aleister
Crowley - self-proclaimed "Beast 666." This is a source
of embarrassment for the Scientology Church, which
is determined to achieve broad public acceptance.

In the 1960s Hubbard incorporated Brainwashing
methodologies into the subject. He established the
"Fair Game Policy" which states that an "enemy" of
Scientology "may be deprived of property or injured
by any means by any Scientologist, without
discipline of that Scientologist. May be tricked,
sued, lied to or destroyed."

He also became the Commodore of his own private
navy, and began to refer to himself as "Source."

L. Ron Hubbard, Messiah or Madman? exposes
as never before the dark side of Scientology, yet
contains an in-depth examination of the potential
positives of the subject and their actual origins.

_______________​

'Brainwashing Manual Parallels in Scientology', a.k.a. 'Revisiting the Textbook on Psycho-politics' http://www.xenu-directory.net/critics/ambry1.html

Table of Contents

Examining the 'Brainwashing Manual' http://warrior.xenu.ca/Brainwashing-front.jpg with the purpose of better understanding Scientology 4

Introduction: A Brief Outline of Scientology Doctrine, Public and Confidential 6

"White Scientology" - The Battle Tactics Doctrine - Brainwashing Manual Tech - Scientology is Multi-layered - Exploiting the Positives: the Cheese in the Trap -

Background 9

Origin of the word "brainwashing." and of the "Russian Brainwashing Manual"
L. Ron Hubbard writing to Scientologists on the subject of the Brainwashing Manual
Departing briefly from the Manual: A look at private tactics later shared with insiders
A publicized statement
A private explanation
Hubbard vs. the "Asiatic Hordes"
Back to the Brainwashing Manual: Excerpts from Hubbard's third public statement on it
Kenneth Goff's 1956 version of the Manual
Scientology's "No-answer answers."

Excerpts from the Brainwashing Manual/Textbook on Psycho-politics 14

"Editorial Note": Hubbard. assuming the guise of the phantasmal "Charles Stickley"
"An Address by Beria": Hubbard, pretending to be Lavrenti Beria, chief of the Russian Secret Police
The Main Text of the Manual: Hubbard, masquerading as an arrogant Russain Brainwashing expert
"Pain-Drug-Hypnosis"

The Layers of The "Scientological Onion"
yellowonion.jpg


http://exscn.net/content/view/178/105 17


Brainwashing Manual Parallels in Modern Scientology 19

Correspondences between the Brainwashing Manual and the Battle Tactics policy
On “Survival”
On Surviving the Atomic Bomb
On an individual Scientologist influencing leaders
Scientology is devious by design

Front Groups - Layer Zero of the “Scientological Onion” 20

“It is not necessary that the term ‘Communism’ [Scientology] be applied at first…”

Layer One - The publicized portion of Scientology 23

“White Scientology”
Scenario: (An application of “White Scientology”)
“By reason alone”

Auditing

Descending into Layer Two of the “Onion”: The “In-Organization” Strata 27

“…[Scientology] under the guise of [‘White Scientology’]…”
Exploitation of the process of abreaction
Playing one thing off another or “counter-playing”
“Loaded language”: the seemingly enlightened “counter-played” with the manipulative
Tone 4, “entheta,” “theta,” Suppressive Person
The Thought Limiting clichés of Scientology
Publicized, “In-organization” and Confidential Scientology “Ethics”
“…aligning the individual against the desire not to conform…”
Side effects of “critical thoughts”
Dominion over the loyalties of individuals

Layer Three of the “Onion”: The Confidential “Upper Levels” of the “Bridge to Total Freedom” 33

“…avoid the understanding of the layman…”
Highest of the “upper levels” must remain a mystery to the membership
Operating Thetan or O.T.
Aleister Crowley, Head of the O.T.O.
O.T. III, The “Wall of Fire” into which Hubbard “took the plunge” to save Mankind
Exploitation of the paranormal

Layer Four: “…a well trained individual who serves in complete obedience…”
The Sea Organization, the Rehabilitation Project Force, and the Five Card System 36


The Sea Organization: “Custodians of the O.T. Levels”
“…the only loyalty which should exist… is to the State [Scientology].”
Sea Org Ethics under Commodore Hubbard on the Flagship
“Refusal to let them sleep over many days…”
The Rehabilitation Project Force
“Filthy food, little sleep, nearly untenable quarters…”
“…the first loyalty [to himself]… is destroyed…”
“Degradation and conquest…”
The children’s and teenagers’ RPF
“A certain amount of fear…”
The RPF’s RPF
The Five Card “Team Share” System
“The technologies of psycho-politics…”

Layer Five: Confidential Scientology Policy and Tech for “handling” uncooperative outsiders 46

The Fair Game policy and “philosophy”
“…find or manufacture enough threat…”
“Direct the attention of the authorities…”
Scientology’s unscrupulous use of the legal system
“We will no longer put up with our religion being criticized…”
Discourage inquiry
Defamatory data on file; “Culling”: Searching “religious confessional” (auditing) files for embarrassing or intimidating items
Background: The Commodore’s Intelligence Network
The policy of covert attack and publicized PR “defense lines”
Scientology’s Multi-layered Public Relations tech
Scientology Intelligence tech
Data collecting, and Attack or “support” Intelligence
Creating incidents that reflect badly on others
“Data needed by Ops on each located who”
Attack or “support” Intelligence - The Covert Ops study course and checklist
“Persons in his vicinity to whom he is emotionally involved…”
Coerce them into signing prepared “retractions” or “confessions”
Plenty of bogus “documentation”
One justification for unscrupulous covert methods
Treatment of VIPs and celebrities
Goal of talking over “mental health” and “political guidance”
Full knowledge of Intelligence tech must be denied to the general membership
“Deception, chicanery, lying, manipulation and outright criminality”
“She over there, those pink legs sticking out, didn’t like me”
Scientologists believe in a planet-wide conspiracy against L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology
The Scientology Hierarchy

Layer Six: The Core of the “Scientological Onion” 69

“…virtually a pathological liar…egotism… lust for power, and vindictiveness…”
“We must be like the vine upon the tree…”
The elusive “1000 page” official L. Ron Hubbard biography
“It’s a trap not being able to prevaricate”
Conscience as an “impediment”
The L. Ron Hubbard Fan(atic) club

Epilogue 74

Freeing the Positives

Addendum 76

"Dr. Hubbard's" FBI letters written concurrent with the appearance of the Brainwashing Manual 77

L. Ron Hubbard assumes the identity of Dr. Hubbard Ph.D DD - Patriotic Concerned Citizen
Letter of 29 July 1955
From a letter dated 7 September

A further look at Scientology's Covert Intelligence Tech 79

"Categories of Data Needing Coding"
A glimpse at a covert operation, and of public strata "policy" used as a cover for applied covert policy
An example of public strata "policy" used as "cover" - this time used on Scientologists by Scientology
"Ops Planning"
What to "Vet" or delete from sensitive internal messages that may be scrutinized by outsiders

Bibliography 82

Notes 87


____________​


Quoting from the 'Brainwashing Manual Parallels' Epilogue:

Epilogue
Freeing the Positives

"....Examining and 'sorting out' the subject would be worthwhile task. Doing so would not only educate as to the details of its dominant 'dark side', but would also make possible the freeing of what good may be found within it."



__________​


The "positives" - separated from the over-all subject - would no longer be Scientology, but another subject.


_______________​


When confronted by a person, who is in the process of being lured into Scientology, and has just pleasantly used his newly acquired "Comm Course" skills to establish communication with, and happily extrovert, a withdrawn little old lady neighbor, and is very pleased with himself about his good deed, and equally as impressed with his success applying the "tech," don't go

300px-Profanity.svg.png


on the person, because that probably won't help free him from the sucking power of Scientology.

The fact is the little old lady did feel better, and was cheerfully extroverted.

Recognize that, and then take it from there. :)
 
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