Hubbard - OT VIII

Hatshepsut

Crusader
Transcript of targ session MSH with LRH on meter. Ron is looking for Theta sub-dividing and branching. From the questions asked on one of the OT level versions I think he was still interested in following the line of thought.

I, for one, couldn't help noticing that this project to make OTs quite often ended up with beings attacking other beings, whether entities, targs, or staff....

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...h34iBakogoPR6z3Xg&sig2=fgs-UuhYcJvEonIe7T81ug

HCL-SPEC ELECTROPSYCHOMETRIC SCOUTING:
BATTLE OF THE UNIVERSES
 
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programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
Interesting. And don't forget...all the definitions came from Tape References....(most I suppose)...So it goes to figure...if some definitions have been removed.....the places where LRH said them....on tape lectures....have also been removed??

In the old Tech Dictionary, many definitions were also quoted from HCOBs.
 

JustSheila

Crusader
That style of writing does not seem like Hubbard's style, not that I am defending Hubbard at all.
I am wondering who wrote it.

Funny you mentioned that.

The same change of writing style happened with the Flag Orders and HCOPLs. It puzzled the heck out of me for years.

I finally came to the conclusion that the first style - the long one - is actually Hubbard. After that, he dictated and others (who wrote far more concisely than he did) wrote the rest.

But I can't say I'm certain, only that the original Scn stuff is in that long style.

Maybe someone, somewhere, has some definite firsthand knowledge on this besides David Mayo (who can't speak out)?
 

Hatshepsut

Crusader
That style of writing does not seem like Hubbard's style, not that I am defending Hubbard at all.
I am wondering who wrote it.

The tulpa ?

ron_series_writer_ad.jpg
 

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
Funny you mentioned that.

The same change of writing style happened with the Flag Orders and HCOPLs. It puzzled the heck out of me for years.

I finally came to the conclusion that the first style - the long one - is actually Hubbard. After that, he dictated and others (who wrote far more concisely than he did) wrote the rest.

But I can't say I'm certain, only that the original Scn stuff is in that long style.

Maybe someone, somewhere, has some definite firsthand knowledge on this besides David Mayo (who can't speak out)?

Nope. Hubbard's style is short and pithy in HCOBs.
 

Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Trascript of targ session MSH having LRH on the cans. Ron is looking for Theta sub-dividing and branching. From the questions asked on one of the OT level versions I think he was still interested in following it up the line.

I, for one, couldn't help noticing that this project to make OTs quite often ended up with beings attacking other beings, whether entities, targs, or staff....

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...h34iBakogoPR6z3Xg&sig2=fgs-UuhYcJvEonIe7T81ug

HCL-SPEC ELECTROPSYCHOMETRIC SCOUTING:
BATTLE OF THE UNIVERSES


Like when you have a tank of hungry fish and
throw in a piece of meat....
 

Veda

Sponsor
earthvstheflyingsaucershm.jpg

Actually, the Marcabians are pretty nice once you get to know them.


You're right; the sentences seem too long for Hubbard.

At one time I also doubted the authenticity of the Lucifer HCOB of 1980.

That was mainly because some of the writing, IMO, was not in Hubbard's writing style.

Also, I knew of no persons, who were around Hubbard during that period, who had confirmed its authenticity.

However, for quite a while there's been sufficient evidence from reliable people to confirm, for me, that it was - for a while - on the New OT 8 course.

Also, from a very high-up reliable source, I had it confirmed that Hubbard did author it, and that it came via Pat Broeker, who was extremely excited about it, and wanted a new OT level based on it.

I have a question as to whether it was typed by Hubbard, or was dictated by Hubbard. If it was dictated by Hubbard and, then, formatted by Broeker, perhaps Broeker added some small amount of content to bridge from idea to idea; however the core, essential, document, was Hubbard's.

It's in line with what Hubbard had been saying, confidentially, previously: Christianity is the result of implants. According to the HCOB, even the "second coming" was really an invasion of Earth by the Marcabians (extraterrestrial overlord implanters), an invasion which, possibly, with the creation of OTs on Earth, will be somehow prevented.

Hubbard, as any Scientologist knows, is the anti-implanter and enemy of the implanters.

Hubbard's 1980 reference to the Cabala (or Kabbalah, or Qabalah, etc.) is noteworthy, and his descent into yet more implant scenarios - this time with the implanters outside the physical universe - was predicable.

And you Captain Bill/Ron's Orgers will notice the similarity between the Lucifer OT 8 HCOB and Cap'n Bill's OT 8 (Super NOTs or 'Excalibur') level.

The Third Wall of Fire.

Wheeeee! :headspin:


The news, in recent times, is the acceptance of the "Jesus was a lover of young boys" OT 8 HCOB by more and more outside of Scientology Inc. Scientologists.

For example, BIC's (the South African Blog, 'Back In Comm') estrangement with the Milestone 2 people, and BIC's acceptance of the 1980 "Jesus was a lover of young boys," etc., OT 8 HCOB as having been written by Hubbard (and resultant defensiveness and protectiveness of it), and BIC's acceptance of Ron's Orgs, notably its OT 8, called 'Excalibur', which appears to have been inspired by the 1980 OT 8 HCOB: both have to do with hidden conspiratorial influences from outside the physical universe that are keeping Scientology OTs from experiencing their full OTness.

Now full OT is just around the corner!!!

:party:
 
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JustSheila

Crusader
Nope. Hubbard's style is short and pithy in HCOBs.

I can only tell you that it was a big puzzle to me in 1979 when I spent some 200 or so hours at Pubs sorting and filing Flag Base Orders, Flag Orders, HCOPLs, BPLs, etc. when, as re-entry to the SO after being out for a year, I had to do a pretty easy DPF for a few months before becoming full crew again. At that time, I noticed ALL the old stuff was in that long style.

Those old issues were revised. They were changed from BPLs to HCOPLs and many of the older ones cancelled and reissued with the new style in the next few years, but still given the old dates.

Really, I don't want to get in an argument about it. I promise you, though, all the old Scientology stuff was in that style. The stuff that was clearly written during Hubbard's time.

Yet it didn't seem to me like Hubbard's style, anyway, because his fiction wasn't in that long style. So I understand what you're saying.

I think he had a secretary or someone who took his dictation and wrote in that style back then. Then someone else noticed the discrepancies in style, and whoever took his dictation afterward and rewrote his stuff later was able to write it more closely to Hub's style.

He didn't actually do much typing himself, you know. He mostly dictated.

Others noticed this besides me. Make your own conclusions, but it sure would be nice to hear about this from anyone who transcribed his stuff.
 

Helena Handbasket

Gold Meritorious Patron
Captain Bill/Ron's Orgers will notice the similarity between the Lucifer OT 8 HCOB and Cap'n Bill's OT 8 (Super NOTs or 'Excalibur') level.

The Third Wall of Fire.
Other than the number 8 and the "third wall of fire", I don't see the similarity. Excalibur is more like New OT 5 thru 7 than the Lucifer OT 8.

OT 8 HCOB as having been written by Hubbard (and resultant defensiveness and protectiveness of it), and BIC's acceptance of Ron's Orgs, notably its OT 8, called 'Excalibur', which appears to have been inspired by the 1980 OT 8 HCOB: both have to do with hidden conspiratorial influences from outside the physical universe that are keeping Scientology OTs from experiencing their full OTness.
I do believe there are anti-freedom-loving forces "pushing back" against everything Scientology claimed to hope to do. And it seems to me they've been quite successful!

Now full OT is just around the corner!!!
If you believe the Lucifer OT 8 HCOB, then everything LRH's worked for for years has finally been achieved. All the intro processes, all the Grades, Dianetics, the pre-OT levels; all that has been preliminary to Truth Revealed, where people get ready to fight the REAL battle. So what does Church management do? They decide that OT 8 is an embarassment, a PR flap, and they throw it away, defeating the purpose of the entire bridge.

Oh sure. The C of S is still a money-making engine, but no one will be singing "Onward, Anti-Christian Soldiers" soon. :)

I'm still interested is seeing the entire OT 8 series; if anyone has it, would they let me know?

Helena
 

programmer_guy

True Ex-Scientologist
I can only tell you that it was a big puzzle to me in 1979 when I spent some 200 or so hours at Pubs sorting and filing Flag Base Orders, Flag Orders, HCOPLs, BPLs, etc. when, as re-entry to the SO after being out for a year, I had to do a pretty easy DPF for a few months before becoming full crew again. At that time, I noticed ALL the old stuff was in that long style.

Those old issues were revised. They were changed from BPLs to HCOPLs and many of the older ones cancelled and reissued with the new style in the next few years, but still given the old dates.

Really, I don't want to get in an argument about it. I promise you, though, all the old Scientology stuff was in that style. The stuff that was clearly written during Hubbard's time.

Yet it didn't seem to me like Hubbard's style, anyway, because his fiction wasn't in that long style. So I understand what you're saying.

I think he had a secretary or someone who took his dictation and wrote in that style back then. Then someone else noticed the discrepancies in style, and whoever took his dictation afterward and rewrote his stuff later was able to write it more closely to Hub's style.

He didn't actually do much typing himself, you know. He mostly dictated.

Others noticed this besides me. Make your own conclusions, but it sure would be nice to hear about this from anyone who transcribed his stuff.

(Yes, I remember BPLs being cancelled.)
I just remember the Hubbard style in HCOBs.

The content of that HCOB referred to above doesn't look like Hubbard's style BUT the content seems to be like his stuff but written by someone else.

I was just being picky and critical.. although I still think my opinion on that matter is correct.
Maybe Veda's post is correct.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Other than the number 8 and the "third wall of fire", I don't see the similarity. Excalibur is more like New OT 5 thru 7 than the Lucifer OT 8.

What Ron's Orgs calls the 'Excalibur' level was initially called "Super NOTs."

Here's the description of it from Ron's Orgs, and a link to their Grade Chart:

" 'Excalibur' - handle the most secret and ancient barriers to OT, an organized attempt on the 7th dynamic to force one to conform to a lower state of awareness." http://www.freezone.org/e_bridge.htm


"Organized attempt [as in conspiracy] on the 7th dynamic": in other words, outside the 6th dynamic or physical universe.


Image3.gif



I do believe there are anti-freedom-loving forces "pushing back" against everything Scientology claimed to hope to do. And it seems to me they've been quite successful!


If you believe the Lucifer OT 8 HCOB, then everything LRH's worked for for years has finally been achieved. All the intro processes, all the Grades, Dianetics, the pre-OT levels; all that has been preliminary to Truth Revealed, where people get ready to fight the REAL battle. So what does Church management do? They decide that OT 8 is an embarassment, a PR flap, and they throw it away, defeating the purpose of the entire bridge.

Oh sure. The C of S is still a money-making engine, but no one will be singing "Onward, Anti-Christian Soldiers" soon. :)

I'm still interested is seeing the entire OT 8 series; if anyone has it, would they let me know?

Helena

There has been mention of more, but, according to a very high source, who was in a position to know, there was no complete 1980 OT 8 level.
 

Maria Cuervo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Other than the number 8 and the "third wall of fire", I don't see the similarity. Excalibur is more like New OT 5 thru 7 than the Lucifer OT 8.


I do believe there are anti-freedom-loving forces "pushing back" against everything Scientology claimed to hope to do. And it seems to me they've been quite successful!


If you believe the Lucifer OT 8 HCOB, then everything LRH's worked for for years has finally been achieved. All the intro processes, all the Grades, Dianetics, the pre-OT levels; all that has been preliminary to Truth Revealed, where people get ready to fight the REAL battle. So what does Church management do? They decide that OT 8 is an embarassment, a PR flap, and they throw it away, defeating the purpose of the entire bridge.

Oh sure. The C of S is still a money-making engine, but no one will be singing "Onward, Anti-Christian Soldiers" soon. :)

I'm still interested is seeing the entire OT 8 series; if anyone has it, would they let me know?

Helena

yes ot8 has to be thrown out. If it's true it means we are on the evil side. If it's not true then there's no yellow brick road. Either way, fail. Fail. Fail.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
If it was free I would not mind having the entirety of the tech as a reference. Does the church sell LRH's written texts to SPs or just to parishioners? lol.
Not that I would buy but I got the impression if you are an SP they will NOT sell anything to you. Esp. that antiquated meter they have.

They used to block sales of meters on E-bay. Now the warehouse mark 8 can be switched off remotely.

Most books used seem to be available for a penny in the UK.
sample listings below.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=sr_pg...3&keywords=scientology&ie=UTF8&qid=1425567463
 

Hatshepsut

Crusader
Yes, as LRH got older his thinking might have become even more difficult too.

Tonight, I'm reading my third bio of Charlie Chaplin. I never realized how much of his public speaking and letters to the press were written by others in the last half of his life.....even his intimate correspondences. Once considered a genius, watching him now try to address audiences more educated from Switzerland ( retrospective via youtube) was an ouch. He had always found a way to escape if caught out walking alone on his estate..... Much of his mental capacity was gone, leaving just a proud remnant trying to string thoughts together. Any in-depth conversation was prohibited and diffucult.
 
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