Hubbard - OT VIII



On this from Rinder's blog:

I sincerely believe that the Church's take on the material they are dealing with has changed. Many somewhat regular individuals reporting to CSes via their folders over decades....has to account for something. A new concurrence may be 'in' and they cannot all be wrong and LRH still right.

It seems to me that these generated 'mind things' that help to tether a person are being regarded as having been created to handle something .... 'in time'. The new push towards selling the Survival Rundown may have a couple of sources. One may be that young recruits find study, especially of the old ideas just too difficult. They've also done a lot of drugs. The other idea may be 'why not just get any living bits of attention into NOW.. a simpler solution....though not a money maker. But enter Super Power....keeerrr chiiinnnng, and sending the money up line.
Last edited:


Other than the number 8 and the "third wall of fire", I don't see the similarity. Excalibur is more like New OT 5 thru 7 than the Lucifer OT 8.

I do believe there are anti-freedom-loving forces "pushing back" against everything Scientology claimed to hope to do. And it seems to me they've been quite successful!

If you believe the Lucifer OT 8 HCOB, then everything LRH's worked for for years has finally been achieved. All the intro processes, all the Grades, Dianetics, the pre-OT levels; all that has been preliminary to Truth Revealed, where people get ready to fight the REAL battle. So what does Church management do? They decide that OT 8 is an embarassment, a PR flap, and they throw it away, defeating the purpose of the entire bridge.

Oh sure. The C of S is still a money-making engine, but no one will be singing "Onward, Anti-Christian Soldiers" soon. :)

I'm still interested is seeing the entire OT 8 series; if anyone has it, would they let me know?


The materials I have seen by RO in Virginia, USA aren't shoving as much cosmology down their newbies. They just mostly do an interview to find troublesome areas on the individual. Then they clean their way down the lines of connection.. There are certain perspectives you probably have to get with, considerations....but not so bad as originally discussed in Berlin.


a strip of wood, metal, or stone forming the bottom of a doorway and crossed in entering a house or room.
synonyms: doorstep, doorway, entrance, entry, door, gate, gateway, portal, doorsill
"the threshold of the church"
a point of entry or beginning.
"she was on the threshold of a dazzling career"

synonyms: start, beginning, commencement, brink, verge, cusp, dawn, inception, day one, opening, debut;
"the threshold of a new era"
the beginning of an airport runway on which an aircraft is attempting to land.

the magnitude or intensity that must be exceeded for a certain reaction, phenomenon, result, or condition to occur or be manifested.
"nothing happens until the signal passes the threshold"

In the illustrative artwork of most religions you will see depicted some kind of trial by fire or torment or persecution or rules to escape from demons. The theme seems always to be that the soul essence of the individual has the potentiality to meet with oblivion or get eaten up....Alas poor Yorick I knew him well.

This area where the ascending soul is striving for his lofty entitlements has always been laden with traps and demonic interferrences and it goes. More than a few religions provide their manuals for safe passage as well as prayers from the priests. The general accepted notion among astral travelers, clairvoyants and occultants is that there is this Abyss where one's very soul or identity as a 'self' is in peril. A safe crossing takes preparedness and cleansing and good Graces....deserved. The Gnostics called those Peratae , of whom it was said they knew how to pass safely through 'the ring -passed-not'. So they had a a series of spiritual cleansings to do.

Very interesting wiki definition.

According to the Peratics, the cosmos is one, but also consists of a threefold division; this rendering of the cosmos they symbolized by a circle circumscribing a triangle. The circle denoted the unity and oneness of the cosmos, while the triangle represented the "Three Worlds" of Patēr, Huios, Hulē [Greek: πατηρ, ὕιος, ὕλη]. These "three Minds" or "three Gods," as they were called, each possessed certain characteristics:[1]

Patēr (Father)—the unbegotten perfect-goodness; megethos patrikon [Paternal Greatness]
Huios (Son)—agathon autogenes [self-begotten goodness/perfection]
Hulē —basic matter or unformed substance, gennēton [begotten/created]

All the ignorant are Egyptians. Egypt is the body, coming out of Egypt is coming out of the body, and passing the Red Sea, that is the water of destruction; or, in other words, generation. Those, however, who suppose themselves to have passed the Red Sea, are still liable to be assailed by the gods of destruction, whom Moses called the serpents of the desert, who bite and destroy those who had hoped to escape the power of the gods of generation

So many religions have their own idea of their wall of fire. The thing I noticed especially though was that it had to do with the individual striving to remain an individual, risen and sovereign. There was an understanding about the perils of attempting to escape the world and achieve a status as a causative actor, where death did not mean annihilation. And many believed they had seen the boneyards of those that didn't make the grade.

We are very much in our materialistic zenith. In the days of old there was so much loss of life early on that they got fed up. Maybe they decided that death and dying had been way oversold as a way of life.

This takes a person into the idea of First Cause or Prime Mover Unmoved BEFORE entry and entanglements with what has been Created.

In the Vendidad chapter there's this occultism which crept into the Chaldeans magic. The land by the Black and Caspian Seas as well as Northern Iraq is still rife with gypsies and bedouin who know their spells I'll bet. I don't know that it is co-incidence that the bowels of Hell keep yawning over there.
Last edited:

Helena Handbasket

Gold Meritorious Patron
The American Saint Hill Organization now has even more Sea Org staff dedicated to helping anyone arrive for the Surivival Rundown and Academy Training.
Now this to me is scary. To me, this means more reges, more pressure, and more demands to come now, now, now, now, now! If I had received this letter it would make me want to run the other way.

It's easy to say we're going to help you arrive and get up the bridge, but under the surface, it's all about getting you to do more; not about them making it easier for you.

Our goal is to have everything perfectly in place before you arrive to ASHO, so once here, you can start service with no delay.
Normally, when I'm scheduling an appointment or series of appointments with someone else, I allow some lead time figuring we'll all be ready to go at the same time. But my experience with the C of S indicates that they push you into starting sometimes within minutes of your handing over the money, over your objections if any. So my policy became get all my "cycles" done first and then begin to show interest. Don't even talk to them until I'm completely ready. (That was my policy before I left, of course. I would never go back to them now.)


Helena Handbasket

Gold Meritorious Patron
The materials I have seen by RO in Virginia, USA aren't shoving as much cosmology down their newbies. They just mostly do an interview to find troublesome areas on the individual.
FWIW, RO USA (under Marianne Hagan) has split with RO Europe. RO USA does not require an in-depth study of all the lectures associated with a particular level -- they just show people what steps they need to do.

And as a side topic, I never joined Scn to learn about their cosmology or to gain super powers. I just wanted to get certain emotional difficulties handled. I've pretty much detached myself from ALL bridges, including the Indie ones, because processing stopped working on me. I have to work through the issues that are bothering me now, by whatever means available, and then perhaps I can return to some form of auditing.



This is a bit curious for me because coming from the Joy Of Satan (in which I found little useful in regards to the spiritual by the way), this text, if true, it totally makes sense to me, and only helps to enhance my, how can I say it, belief in the tech, and will to go up the Bridge.

Of course reading a "so strong" message might trigger an emotional response on you, but that emotional response is not an indicator of a fact or a truth, is an indicator of your programming. Because what was and is Jesus's teachings, but a milder version of communism, a glorification of the weak, the poberty and misery, a beautiful program of destruction and spiritual enslavement for human species.

And, if Ron is truly the Antichrist predicted by that nice book of violence, depravation and plagirarism that is the Bible, I think he could have done it so much better. You know, like predicting the coming of Internet, or warning people about the terrorist and supressive organization the Co$ would eventually, gradually become.

OT8? Sounds good.


@the sloth
Thats definately the "true" version of OT8 because back in 1988 I got a full refund
from the CO$ in exchange for signing non disclosure agreements and agreeing not
to go to Action News in portland,OR and divulging this.So before paying me they had
to verify the HCOB was good,and thats the one.
But the second part of your post,I may have misunderstood,but you imply both Jesus
and Hubbard were both guilty of Pedophilia.???Thats clever.Thats
what an atheist would write.The error is,everything LRH says about
jesus,assuming thats not David Mayo,is BULLSHIT.LRH was totally
keyed in by the time he wrote this HCOB and was having witholds missed
by the hundreds.
Catholicism creates unnatural manmade laws like celibacy,tries to sell them as though they are spiritual,
and of course they dont work.So these priests wind up so repressed they become pedophiles.But none of that changes
the reality of Jesus Christ.


It is hard to make such claims for a person like Jesus, of which what we know comes from the Bible and only from the Bible...