Hubbard overboarded staff in Alaska ice water? > Dox

AnonKat

Crusader
WWP: http://forums.whyweprotest.net/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1375429

Download: http://forums.whyweprotest.net/123-leaks-legal/another-deep-clam-sea-org-leak-37882/

This document was previously leaked, packaged with a number of other
documents in the Sea Org Post Responsibility Pack leaked here

http://forums.whyweprotest.net/123-leaks-legal/another-deep-clam-sea-org-leak-37882/

But I figured this document deserved its own thread.

L Ron Hubbard brags about personally throwing a staff member overboard into
Alaskan ice water, as punishment.

Note that this is an internal Sea Org document, not meant for ordinary
scientologists or non-scientologists to see.

Here is the scan, followed by plain text so Google can index it.

overboardingbylrh.jpg


pagesfromscientologysea.jpg


.

Typed out:

SEA ORGANIZATION

FLAG SHIP ORDER 517

24 February 1972
Reissued
25 June 1979

THIS IS YOUR LIFE

Whenever someone goofs up or lets something slide or
accepts illegal orders or lets them happen, the situation
usually winds up on my plate eventually.

Example: Two illegal transfer actions were let go by
by the Captain. Shortly after, I was single handing.

I traced back the Why to just that. Execs and others
letting things slide, not holding a firm on-policy line.
Next thing, flap.

This of course generates an Ethics atmosphere.

I remember an appeal I once made to an expeditionary
crew in Alaska. It.went something like this:

"Now maybe you guys like to wrestle with bears. Maybe
you like to drown in ice water. Maybe you have a passion
for being hit on the head with blocks no one secured. Maybe
this is all a natural normal suicidal appetite every man
should have.

"But me, I have my own peculiar ideas. I like to survive.
And I have the funny notion that you should survive
too. I know this is odd and at great variance with the
generally held view.

"I really don't mind wrestling bears you stampede into
the tent area. I have swum in lots of cold water and I can
survive blocks falling on my head. This is not the point.

"It's the neatness of things that matter. I have a
peculiar notion that there are right ways to do things and
that these things lead to survival.

"I know it's peculiar and unheard of in these times.

"But that's my point. While I have no objections to
wrestling a 1600 pound Kodiak bear or swimming in ice water
I want to do things like that on my own time AND NOT BECAUSE
YOUR SILLY DAMNED SLIPSHODNESS MADE IT NECESSARY FOR ME TO
DO IT TO SAVE YOUR CARCASSES."

And at that I threw the bosun overboard so they would
get the point.

It was awfully bad PR. But they got the point.

They even began to demand some efficiency from each
other and not let it all slide by. They even began to look
like a crew, which was a lot to expect from a mixture of
college boys, scientists and old salts.

They decided they could wrestle with bears but didn't
have to.

None of this of course applies to the present operation.
I just adore cleaning up your goofs and single handing to
save your life. But one day I may not do it. Then everybody
will have to grow up and the giddy diaper days will be over.


Copyright © 1972 L. Ron Hubbard. All Rights Reserved.


- 2 -
FSO 517

No crew member whether ship or org or bureaux in any
part of this ship has the right to goof and then demand I
work day and night to save his life or this operation.

Those crew members who do try to hold the line and keep
the show on the road are" appreciated.

YOU ARE TOTALLY CAPABLE OF DOING ANY JOB AND MORE. So
knock off all this case stuff and out-Ethics stuff and nonsense.
YOU ARE CAPABLE OF FAR FAR MORE THAN WE WILL EVER
DEMAND OF YOU. So quit kidding yourself if you are. YOU
ARE HERE. YOU ARE ABLE. I don't have to hold your hand or
change your pants for you. SO BE CAPABLE AND DO A GREAT JOB.
Nobody believes that you can't. THIS IS YOUR LIFE. We aren't
kidding now. YOU CAN MAKE THINGS GO RIGHT!!!!

L. RON HUBBARD
COMMODORE

LRH : ne : dr : iw
 
Last edited:

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
When I first read this while in the SO, I assumed it was something he did way before 1950.

Now, I figure it's probably all a lie, although I believe he did sail up to Alaska at one point.

Paul
 

Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yeah, the Alaska bit is probably fiction; but I have no problem with the sentiments he expresses in the FSO. Seems all good and OK and why anyone would think there is something terrible about it is quite beyond me.
 

secretiveoldfag

Silver Meritorious Patron
Our hero sailed to Alaska in the summer of 1940 (having failed to join the US Army or the US Navy) in an old ketch that he had bought with his first real earnings from his writing. He took his first wife Polly with him as crew. If anyone was overboarded it was poor Polly. They were stranded in Alaska for several months with engine trouble. He worked for a local radio show. Finally in November 1940 a local bank lent him the return fare (never repaid).

I don't believe he ever went to Alaska otherwise.
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
Why didn't the crew apply that policy to him?

There are many accounts of his behavior being less than stellar.

Why the fuck wasn't that fat old bastard overboarded and beached?
 

anonomog

Gold Meritorious Patron
Sounds like a Hubbard tall tale designed to awe his reader with his saviour-like wisdom and strength of purpose and masculinity blah, blah to me.
It just doesn't sound like unvarnished truth.

Wai- nothing he's written sounds like unvarnished truth.
Oh well if someone uncovers a human popsicle with an interesting tale, I might rethink. Enough crap has been uncovered about LRH and COS, don't think this rambling will make much difference to their burgeoning popularity, be it true or false.
 

Mike Laws

Patron Meritorious
I don't think LRH always believed in letting the truth get in the way of a good story, who knows if this actually happened.

I do kind of like the moral of this story though.
 

Mystic

Crusader
The way to control people is to lie to them. -- L. Ron Hubbard

And of course make them fear you by threatening harm. Governments, religions and assholes hate this way.

 

anonomog

Gold Meritorious Patron
The way to control people is to lie to them. -- L. Ron Hubbard

And of course make them fear you by threatening harm. Governments, religions and assholes hate this way.


I do wonder if he eventually convinced himself that his lies were the truth.

If you spend long enough and enough energy convincing others of the truth of your lies, do you eventually convince yourself?
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
"I do wonder if he eventually convinced himself that his lies were the truth."

Most likely some of it he believed.

I have had people stand in front of me with tears streaming down their face asking how I could even think such a thing of them as I was claiming they said about me. They were crushed.

And at the same time I've had in my back pocket written notes from several people I'd trust with my life alerting to me to the fact that this person was saying blah-de-blah about me. So much for alligator tears.



Some people can convince themselves of anything and some people know they are lying to your face and hope you are stupid enough to buy it and they are certain they are clever enough to pull off the scam.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Our hero sailed to Alaska in the summer of 1940 (having failed to join the US Army or the US Navy) in an old ketch that he had bought with his first real earnings from his writing. He took his first wife Polly with him as crew. If anyone was overboarded it was poor Polly. They were stranded in Alaska for several months with engine trouble. He worked for a local radio show. Finally in November 1940 a local bank lent him the return fare (never repaid).

I don't believe he ever went to Alaska otherwise.

That's pretty accurate. No 1600 pound Kodiak bears. Just Hubbard and wife Polly.

Years later, in 1951, Polly would write this letter to Hubbard's 2nd wife, Sara (From court records):

"Sara-

"If I can help in any way, I'd like to - You must get Alexis [Hubbard's daughter by Sara] in your custody - Ron is not normal. I had hoped that you could straighten him out. Your charges probably sound fantastic to the average person - but I've been through it - the beatings, threats on my life, all the sadistic traits you charge - twelve years of it. I haven't asked for anything, but with all the money rolling in from 'Dianetics' I had hoped to get enough for plastic surgery for Kay's [Ron Jr.'s younger sister] birthmark - Please believe I do want you to get Alexis."
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
"....for Kay's [Ron Jr.'s younger sister] ..."

Kay?
OK everybody heard about Dianna, Ron Jr, Arthur, Suzette, Quention.

Most have heard of Alexis.

I am the only person who hadn't heard about Kay?
 

Axiom142

Gold Meritorious Patron
"....for Kay's [Ron Jr.'s younger sister] ..."

Kay?
OK everybody heard about Dianna, Ron Jr, Arthur, Suzette, Quention.

Most have heard of Alexis.

I am the only person who hadn't heard about Kay?

Yes. Do try to keep up. :)

From ‘Bare Faced Messiah’ by Russell Miller:

“Ron did not stay long in Hollywood knocking out 136 scenes a day and by the end of the year he was back in New York. Polly was pregnant again and mindful of what had happened with Nibs, they decided she should have the baby in a New York hospital. On Wednesday 15 January 1936, she produced a daughter, Catherine May. Unlike Nibs, Catherine was a lusty, full-term baby, perfect in every way except for a birthmark on one side of her face.”

I have no doubt that Hubbard was capable of throwing someone overboard, but in this case, I expect it was just one of his fanciful stories made up to illustrate one of his ‘lessons’. I very much doubt that a professional seaman (i.e. not a Sea Ogre) would have tolerated being thrown overboard.

Axiom142
 
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Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Yes. Do try to keep up. :)

From ‘Bare Faced Messiah’ by Russell Miller:

“Ron did not stay long in Hollywood knocking out 136 scenes a day and by the end of the year he
was back in New York. Polly was pregnant again and mindful of what had happened with Nibs, they decided she should have the baby in a New York hospital. On Wednesday 15 January 1936, she produced a daughter, Catherine May. Unlike Nibs, Catherine was a lusty, full-term baby, perfect in every way except for a birthmark on one side of her face.”


I have no doubt that Hubbard was capable of throwing someone overboard, but in this case, I expect it was just one of his fanciful stories made up to illustrate one of his ‘lessons’. I very much doubt that a professional seaman (i.e. not a Sea Ogre) would have tolerated being thrown overboard.

Axiom142

Lusty?
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire

Definitions of lusty on the Web:

lustful: vigorously passionate
hearty: endowed with or exhibiting great bodily or mental health; "a hearty glow of health"
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Given to experiencing lust; Given to enjoying physical sensations
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lusty

lustily - in a healthy manner; "the young plants grew lustily"
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

lustily - In a lusty manner
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lustily

Lusty is slang for sexually excited.
vets.com/questionmanager/encyclopaedia/ency1/PA.HTM​
Paul
 
When I first read this while in the SO, I assumed it was something he did way before 1950.

Now, I figure it's probably all a lie, although I believe he did sail up to Alaska at one point.

Paul

The way I read the thing what he actually says is that he lectured his crew on not being slipshod and threw the bosun in to make his point. The rest of it is "rhetorical flourish", aka bluster.

The way its written encourages the reader to make assumptions about the involvement of kodiak bears & ice blocks, but he doesn't actually say he was inconvenienced by such. He leaves that to the imagination of the reader. In that light the account doesn't seem all that far-fetched as a typical sea story. I certainly heard worse in my spent time shipping out. :coolwink:

Also, time period indicates that this clearly did not involve Sea Org personnel.

FWIW, overboarding is all too common a form of hazing on ships. I've seen it done many times. LRH clearly enjoyed its use as a service fac. No doubt it appealed to his sense of grandiosity & control.


Mark A. Baker
 

Veda

Sponsor
The way I read the thing what he actually says is that he lectured his crew on not being slipshod and threw the bosun in to make his point. The rest of it is "rhetorical flourish", aka bluster.

The way its written encourages the reader to make assumptions about the involvement of kodiak bears & ice blocks, but he doesn't actually say he was inconvenienced by such. He leaves that to the imagination of the reader. In that light the account doesn't seem all that far-fetched as a typical sea story. I certainly heard worse in my spent time shipping out. :coolwink:

Also, time period indicates that this clearly did not involve Sea Org personnel.

FWIW, overboarding is all too common a form of hazing on ships. I've seen it done many times. LRH clearly enjoyed its use as a service fac. No doubt it appealed to his sense of grandiosity & control.


Mark A. Baker

Ron was so clever, gosh. No wonder he's admired by BS artists, double-talkers, and weasel-worders, everywhere.

As for that over-boarding thing, that was a "service fac." People have service facs. No big deal. :yes:

Hint: There's a time and a place when PR damage control is useless. And you are there. :clap:

-snip-

Ron had Julia Salmon thrown overboard.....Julia was about 64 years old, terribly overweight and could not swim.

The people who threw her overboard struggled to get her over the side; she was terrified; she kept crying out "I cannot swim!" On her way down she hit the side of the ship - I could hear her screams - it was obvious she was injured and drowning.

The people on the deck all stood around too afraid to do anything. Fearing to originate any action less the become the target of LRHs displeasure.

I ran and jumped over the side and rescued her. I then pulled her over to the ladder that led up to the ground level of the dock........it was about 20 feet straight up. She could not climb the steps. I had my shoulders under her butt pushing her up..... no one still had come to help.......but at the top of that ladder stood LRH filming us.....such evil.......

-snip-
 
As for that over-boarding thing, that was a "service fac." People have service facs. No big deal. :yes:

That's a key difference between us, Veda. I happen to consider serfacs to be a VERY BIG DEAL. Eliminating them I consider to be important to an individual's personal growth. Obviously you prefer to hang on to yours. That reflects a key difference in our respective values.


Mark A. Baker
 

smartone

My Own Boss
Sounds like a Hubbard tall tale designed to awe his reader with his saviour-like wisdom and strength of purpose and masculinity blah, blah to me.
It just doesn't sound like unvarnished truth.

Wai- nothing he's written sounds like unvarnished truth.
Oh well if someone uncovers a human popsicle with an interesting tale, I might rethink. Enough crap has been uncovered about LRH and COS, don't think this rambling will make much difference to their burgeoning popularity, be it true or false.



too true. One of the things which always annoyed me was that he had this gift of saying in 1000 words what could easily be said in 10. He would ramble on and on and on and on, ad nauseum.
 
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