Hubbard's Naval Intelligence Documentation

Student of Trinity

Silver Meritorious Patron
I believe that in WWII the normal rank for command of a tiny vessel like Hubbard's was indeed Lieutenant, senior grade, which was Hubbard's rank in command. That's equivalent to the army rank of Captain.
 

Veda

Sponsor
"With all the chatter about L. Ron Hubbard's alleged shortcomings, it got me thinking about what the effect of the unprecedented ad hominem attacks against the man were. Hubbard was demonized by the cold war establishment perhaps more than any civilian figure."

Marty Rathbun, from his Blog.

hubbard.jpe


I see that you "wogs," "haters." "bashers," "natterers," No-Case-Gain-cases, Failed Scientologists, Anti-Scientologists-Anti-social personalities, "SPs," "DBs," "PTSes," Homo Saps, and low theta endowment thetans are once joining with the Establishment in once again attempting to insult and belittle L. Ron Hubbard.

Here are some factual facts for you to straighten you out and purge you of your false data:


Hubbard repeatedly refused to work for the Establishment, despite their repeated efforts to enlist him in their service.

According to Hubbard there were repeated attempts by both the Russians and the US government to take possession of his work on the mind.

The first, according to Hubbard, was the late 1930s theft, by the Russian KGB, of his 'Excalibur' manuscript.

Also, in a 1955 letter to FBI, Hubbard explained that he had been offered his own laboratory and "very high fees" if agreed to work for the Russians. (Despite his many demonstrations of loyalty to the United States, by reporting people, including his own wife, to the FBI, as communists or communist sympathizers, in other similar letters, he had "appears mental" stamped on his folder of letters. Obviously another attempt to discredit him by the international cabal opposing his work after he had refused to work for them.)

However, his skills as a nuclear physicist were also coveted by the US government. Here's Hubbard explaining that, during World War II, he was repeatedly asked to work on the Manhattan Project (the secret project building the atomic bomb), and each time refused, and each time was sent into a combat theater as punishment:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1-6I-d4jK0

And here is Hubbard describing the period of 1946, when he first came in contact with Sara Northrup at "the place nuclear physicists stayed near Caltech." Hubbard describes a covert operation to destroy his reputation.

From the confidential 1969 issue, 'Intelligence Actions - Covert Data Collection':


"The objective of the enemy is to discredit... Their first blast was from the San Francisco papers, Sept. 1950, quoting the publisher (of Book One) Ceppos being critical of me (he was a communist) followed by the LA papers, pushed then by Sara Komkovadamanov (alias Northrup) 'divorce' actions, followed by attempted kidnapping of myself. Other details were pushed into it including the murder of four and so on. This was a full complete covert operation. At the back of it was Miles Hollister (psychology student), Sara Komkovadamanov (housekeeper at the place nuclear physicists stayed near Caltech), Gene Benton and his wife - president of the Young Communists League... This was a full war against Dianetics."

Yes, that's right. The woman who convinced him that she was his wife for five years, was, in fact, a Russian spy name Sara Komkovadamanov.

And regarding the same time period of the 1950s...

From a 1977 recorded message, 'Can we Ever Be Friends?'
:

"Possibly any trouble Dianetics or Scientology ever had began on May 9, 1950 when the U.S government, excited by the possibility of Hubbard's work, sought to force him into classified government service.

"In Washington, they told him they wanted him to work on projects to make people more suggestible. When he declined they threatened and, typically, he refused to bow.

"And the war between the government and Scientology was on."

There's another version of this from the 1978 edition of 'What is Scientology?'. It ends with:

"The government never forgave him for this and soon began vicious, covert international attacks on his work. "

The above two accounts, re. the U.S. government, were taken from a recorded lecture from the 1950s.

Hubbard's genuis was much desired by the Establishments of both the USA and the Soviet Union, and he repeatedly refused both, and was, as a result, viciously attacked by both.



Now, I hope these factual facts have stripped you of any false data and you'll decide to do the appropriate amends project and get back on the Bridge to Total Freedom as soon as possible.
 

xseaorguk

Patron Meritorious
well, the life of LRH is what I aspire to. I don't care what you all think:no:

Yes, I like mobile homes and want to spend my last days like he did.
You get to see the countryside and it is quite cosy in there too.
As long as you have enough vistaril and other injections and tablets to keep you company.
What more can you wish for in life?:yes:

Yes, LRH (he says standing and clapping toward his photo on the wall), you are the biggest Thetan in this game on earth.
You sussed it out.

Just let us know when you are back to play this "game", your office is waiting:unsure:
Altho I'm sure you are playing much more interesting games in other universes and galaxies, or maybe on the Van Halen belt, or whatever it was called.
That was kool dude:unsure:

Oh, by the way, your books had some mistakes in them so we changed them a bit, just to let you know:yes:
 
well, the life of LRH is what I aspire to. I don't care what you all think:no:

Yes, I like mobile homes and want to spend my last days like he did.
You get to see the countryside and it is quite cosy in there too.
As long as you have enough vistaril and other injections and tablets to keep you company.
What more can you wish for in life?:yes:

Yes, LRH (he says standing and clapping toward his photo on the wall), you are the biggest Thetan in this game on earth.
You sussed it out.

Just let us know when you are back to play this "game", your office is waiting:unsure:
Altho I'm sure you are playing much more interesting games in other universes and galaxies, or maybe on the Van Halen belt, or whatever it was called.
That was kool dude:unsure:

Oh, by the way, your books had some mistakes in them so we changed them a bit, just to let you know:yes:

And Xseaorguk will be here to take another bullet in the ass for you if need be.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
Please do not sully the good name of the fictional character LRH, by associating it with L Ron Hubbard.
 

Awake

Patron
They should have kept that cover.

Has anyone else noticed the blurb on the jacket -
"This book is vital to the survival of your possessions, your family and the future of this planet."

Interesting that 'possessions' takes precedent over family and all of humankind.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
I believe that in WWII the normal rank for command of a tiny vessel like Hubbard's was indeed Lieutenant, senior grade, which was Hubbard's rank in command. That's equivalent to the army rank of Captain.

ssssh you injecting facts into the thread and the OP will not take that well - otherwise he would have to explain away the simple fact that Hubbies first officer was a lieutenant and also about to get a command (and later did) and testified to that in court.

Oh wait, I forgot the conspiracy is still ongoing...
 

Lurker5

Gold Meritorious Patron
I am not going to play games with those who won't face facts. It is incontrovertible that LRH was Naval Intelligence. Many Intelligence Officers actual duty will never see the light of day on paper. All the naysayers including Wikipedia have tried to play down his Naval Intelligence involvement. Wikipedia: March 1941 and was commissioned as a Lieutenant, Junior Grade on July 19, 1941,[13] entering permanent active duty in November.[14] He specifically volunteered for "Special Service (intelligence duties)", an assignation recorded on his commission papers. He spent only a brief time in this nominal role with the Office of Naval Intelligence. After four months working in public relations and at the US Hydrographic Office, he spent three weeks at the Third Naval District in New York training for the role of Intelligence Officer.


The fact is including his reserve time, LRH had 9 years in Military. The following documents his National Guard and U.S. Marine Reserve status that began in 1927. Any former military personnel can see by this document, that all of the training and commissions and assignments over 9 years at only an official pay grade of Lieutenant while given command of PC-815 and other important duty is very suspicious.. And other assignments that justify higher rank which seemed mysteriously absent.

http://www.spaink.net/cos/LRH-bio/servrcrd.htm

Names of Commanding Officers and their vessels are public, LRH's vessel is not. Wikipedia report: On June 28, Hubbard ordered his crew to fire four shells from the ship's 3-inch gun and a number of rifle and pistol shots in the direction of the Coronado Islands, off which the ship anchored for the night. He did not realize that the islands belonged to Mexico, an ally, nor that he had taken the USS PC-815 into Mexican territorial waters.[49] The islands were garrisoned by Mexican Navy personnel during the war.[50] The Mexican government complained and two days later, Hubbard found himself before a naval Board of Investigation in San Diego. He was found to have disregarded orders by carrying out an unsanctioned gunnery practice and violating Mexican waters. He was reprimanded and removed from command, effective July 7.[49] Rear Admiral Frank A. Braisted commented, in a fitness report written shortly after the Coronado incident, that he "consider[ed] this officer lacking in the essential qualities of judgment.

But the Naval document shows shows no disciplinary Board of Investigation as it should if happened.His following assignments were consistent with an Intelligence officer's postings especially his stint at the Monterrey Presidio where I also served in Army Intelligence Post. "Civil Affairs" is not PR. See link on dox for PC-815
http://www.uboat.net/allies/warships/ship/8642.html :coolwink:

:roflmao: :hysterical: :roflmao: :hysterical: :roflmao: :hysterical:
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Obviously you were not military and cannot see the absurdity in five years active duty during wartime with 3-4 years reserve. He was Marine and then went Navy for Intel. And still only Lieutenant? With a Commanding Officer Post? No demotion? He was a Spook!


OK - he was a marine in the reserves - mustered out as enlisted. Never saw active service. and "not to be re-enlisted" as an endorsement.

He then enlists as an officer in the Navy years later.July (IIRC) of 1941. As a Lt j.g.

After screwing up in his first assignment he is returned to the USA and after a few months in June of 1942 is assigned to get a converted trawler operational. As someone who already had sailed and had navigational experience that really wasn't a big jump. He also got promoted to the appropriate rank for that command - Lieutenant full grade.

He manages to get himself booted from that and ends up in training in Florida - not only exactly as it says in his record but as also attested to in court.

Again he is assigned command of a sub chaser - a ship with a complement of 80 - a lieutenant grade is appropriate for command of something this small.

And he manages to blow that assignment in 80 days. Again there is no gap in the record and there is no dispute that he was there.

So by June 1943 he has been promoted once and has blown his chance of advancement twice and has been damned lucky not to have been cashiered - which, in a Navy not desperate for personnel would surely have happened.

So thus far our "hero" has been an officer LESS THAN TWO YEARS (are you sure you can count?) with three major faux pas under his belt, two of which involve handling command of ships. Something the Navy was damned sure to never let him do again.

Apparently you know nothing about either the Navy or the situation in a rapidly expanding service that was desperately eager to find any sort of exploitable talent that it could use.

So far you have been wrong on time in rank, the level of command and you have not managed to advance one provable item about what Hubbard was doing alongside of screwing up his commands.

Seriously - if this is how you handled "intelligence" in the GO it's no wonder the US government managed to find out everything you guys were doing - talk about incompetence.
 

InExile

Patron
OK - he was a marine in the reserves - mustered out as enlisted. Never saw active service. and "not to be re-enlisted" as an endorsement.

He then enlists as an officer in the Navy years later. As a Lt j.g.

After screwing up in his first assignment he is returned to the USA and after a few months is assigned to get a converted trawler operational. As someone who already had sailed and had navigational experience that really wasn't a big jump. He also got promoted to the appropriate rank for that command - Lieutenant full grade.

He manages to get himself booted from that and ends up in training in Florida - not only exactly as it says in his record but as also attested to in court.

Again he is assigned command of a sub chaser - a ship with a complement of 80 - a lieutenant grade is appropriate for command of something this small.

And he manages to blow that assignment in 80 days. Again there is no gap in the record and there is no dispute that he was there.

So by June 1943 he has been promoted once and has blown his chance of advancement twice and has been damned lucky not to have been cashiered - which, in a Navy not desperate for personnel would surely have happened.

So thus far our "hero" has been an officer LESS THAN TWO YEARS (are you sure you can count?) with three major faux pas under his belt, two of which involve handling command of ships. Something the Navy was damned sure to never let him do again.

Apparently you know nothing about either the Navy or the situation in a rapidly expanding service that was desperately eager to find any sort of exploitable talent that it could use.

So far you have been wrong on time in rank, the level of command and you have not managed to advance one provable item about what Hubbard was doing alongside of screwing up his commands.

Seriously - if this is how you handled "intelligence" in the GO it's no wonder the US government managed to find out everything you guys were doing - talk about incompetence.

Wasn't the June 1943 incident where he was off the coast of California and fired upon civilian ships? or did an unauthorised engagement of sorts as he was literally doing coast guard duties by then. Don't forget it was not only GO who got things spectacularly wrong so did Freedom with their blinkered journalistic view of the world and facts
 

Freeminds

Bitter defrocked apostate
Poor old Ron was, in fact, a very bad sailor. Evidence of his incompetence should still survive, if anybody still has a copy of 'The Org Book'.

Russell Miller said:
In April 1967, the Avon River steamed into the harbour at Las Palmas after a voyage from Hull which the skipper, Captain John Jones, later described as the 'strangest trip of my life'. Apart from the chief engineer, Jones was the only professional seaman on board. 'My crew were sixteen men and four women Scientologists who wouldn't know a trawler from a tramcar,' he told a reporter from the Daily Mirror on his return to England.
(I think this actually appeared in the Sunday Mirror, 24th December 1967.)

Russell Miller said:
Captain Jones should perhaps have foreseen the difficulties when he signed on for the voyage and was informed that he would be expected to run the ship according to the rules of The Org Book, a sailing manual written by the founder of the Church of Scientology and therefore considered by Scientologists to be infallible gospel. 'I was instructed not to use any electrical equipment, apart from lights, radio and direction finder. We had radar and other advanced equipment which I was not allowed to use. I was told it was all in The Org Book, which was to be obeyed without question.'

Following the advice in this esteemed manual, the Avon River bumped the dock in Hull as she was getting under way and had barely left the Humber estuary before the Scientologist navigator, using the navigational system advocated by Hubbard, confessed that he was lost. 'I stuck to my watch and sextant,' said Captain Jones, 'so at least I knew where we were.'

Not much of a sailor, was Ron, although it seems that his expertise in that area exceeded his mastery of nuclear physics and medicine by a good margin.
 

Student of Trinity

Silver Meritorious Patron
Hubbard's two serious screw-ups wasted ordnance but didn't actually hurt anyone, so it would have been madness to drag senior officers away from their wartime duties to sit on the court martial that would have been necessary to dismiss or demote a lieutenant. Assigning him to a desk job kept him out of command, while freeing up a potentially more capable officer to do something else.

Also, most of naval intelligence is routine reporting and record-keeping. Exactly the sort of stuff that a literate officer who was judged incompetent to command could safely be sidelined into. On the other hand, if US naval intelligence had been doing any James Bond stuff in WW2, why on earth would they have picked L. Ron Hubbard? Is there anything at all, apart from Scientology myth and his own glib assertions, to suggest that L. Ron Hubbard was a suitable candidate for important war work of any kind?
 

Veda

Sponsor
L. Ron Hubbard save Australia from the Japanese

For the benefit of curious lurkers, and anyone with a taste for the bizarre, at 4:41, of the below video, from 1985, Scientology attorney Earle Cooley explains...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5Drk3eVQSg&feature=player_embedded

It's all just one big misunderstanding! That and those damned Nazis!!!

Now let's try to be dignified and respectful and not be so literal minded...


'Ode to L. Ron Hubbard' by Marty Rathbun

You said your legacy would be the tech
but the dictator said otherwise
and the church began its demise
and hurt came to those who would object

You said there was no hidden data line
but the dictator said he knew better
and burned all of your policy letters
and the church went into long term decline

You said the tech was timeless and free
but the dictator wanted power and cash
and made your truth a confusing hash
and status and greed replaced the state of OT

You acknowledged the loyalty of your gracious wife
but the dictator used her as a stepping stone
and she died forgotten, friendless and alone
and thus he erased your dear Manuela from your life [Manualla was Simon Bolivar's girlfriend]

You raised three fine children and one who died too soon
but the dictator wanted them forgotten too
and your progeny turned from sunshine to blue
and the many who loved you wept under a sorrowful moon

You had faith that your friends would make it come out right
but the dictator mis-used your treasure to enervate them
and black dianetics, reverse scientology internecine mayhem
and with violence did he destroy their willingness to fight

You said only truth could penetrate thick armor plate
and though the dictator protested this fact
it was your ace in the hole that has our back
and everyday now more are working to reverse your fate

And alas, it may take time and a perilous struggle
but we assure you it is too late to reverse our tide
you’ve got friends to the end of time on your side
and come hell or high water we’ll emerge from this jungle

Because we know you were right that the truth shall set us free
and that is one thing no dictator will ever take away
it will be your real friends standing at the end of day
humanity freed, the only proper acknowledgment of thee



L. Ron Hubbard also saved the Australians from the Japanese!

From L. Ron Hubbard's 'Executive Letter' of 6 October 1965:

"In 1942, as a senior US Naval officer in Northern Australia by fluke of fate, I helped save them from the Japanese."


And from Hubbard's 17 February 1969 'Information Letter':

"Remember I know Anzo. I once had a big share in saving its bacon from Japan. Note please that a small Jap force could have taken the lot and didn't. A handful of us, months before the coming of US troops, worked like mad to balk the Japs and change their minds. So I know exactly how real the threat is."

sold.jpg
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Wasn't the June 1943 incident where he was off the coast of California and fired upon civilian ships? or did an unauthorised engagement of sorts as he was literally doing coast guard duties by then. Don't forget it was not only GO who got things spectacularly wrong so did Freedom with their blinkered journalistic view of the world and facts

Yes it was the Coronados INcident where he unilaterally decided to invade Mexican waters for a bit of gunnery practice and then tried to blame his crew.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Please do not sully the good name of the fictional character LRH, by associating it with L Ron Hubbard.


:hysterical:

L. Ron Hubbard didn't just operate as the Role-Playing-Game-Maker--he was a Player in it as well!

I always appreciate it when a celebrity spokesperson actually personally uses the product of the firm that sponsors the commercials they act in.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Re: L. Ron Hubbard save Australia from the Japanese

For the benefit of curious lurkers, and anyone with a taste for the bizarre, at 4:41, of the below video, from 1985, Scientology attorney Earle Cooley explains...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5Drk3eVQSg&feature=player_embedded

It's all just one big misunderstanding! That and those damned Nazis!!!

Now let's try to be dignified and respectful and not be so literal minded...


'Ode to L. Ron Hubbard' by Marty Rathbun

You said your legacy would be the tech
but the dictator said otherwise
and the church began its demise
and hurt came to those who would object

You said there was no hidden data line
but the dictator said he knew better
and burned all of your policy letters
and the church went into long term decline

You said the tech was timeless and free
but the dictator wanted power and cash
and made your truth a confusing hash
and status and greed replaced the state of OT

You acknowledged the loyalty of your gracious wife
but the dictator used her as a stepping stone
and she died forgotten, friendless and alone
and thus he erased your dear Manuela from your life [Manualla was Simon Bolivar's girlfriend]

You raised three fine children and one who died too soon
but the dictator wanted them forgotten too
and your progeny turned from sunshine to blue
and the many who loved you wept under a sorrowful moon

You had faith that your friends would make it come out right
but the dictator mis-used your treasure to enervate them
and black dianetics, reverse scientology internecine mayhem
and with violence did he destroy their willingness to fight

You said only truth could penetrate thick armor plate
and though the dictator protested this fact
it was your ace in the hole that has our back
and everyday now more are working to reverse your fate

And alas, it may take time and a perilous struggle
but we assure you it is too late to reverse our tide
you’ve got friends to the end of time on your side
and come hell or high water we’ll emerge from this jungle

Because we know you were right that the truth shall set us free
and that is one thing no dictator will ever take away
it will be your real friends standing at the end of day
humanity freed, the only proper acknowledgment of thee



L. Ron Hubbard also saved the Australians from the Japanese!

From L. Ron Hubbard's 'Executive Letter' of 6 October 1965:

"In 1942, as a senior US Naval officer in Northern Australia by fluke of fate, I helped save them from the Japanese."


And from Hubbard's 17 February 1969 'Information Letter':

"Remember I know Anzo. I once had a big share in saving its bacon from Japan. Note please that a small Jap force could have taken the lot and didn't. A handful of us, months before the coming of US troops, worked like mad to balk the Japs and change their minds. So I know exactly how real the threat is."

sold.jpg


OK I have to ask - is that poem actually written by Rathbun? It reads like a lot of his rubbish but I wanted to check because it reads like Vogon poetry.

Seriously Marty - have you ever heard of the words "scansion" "rhythm" and "meter"???
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Re: L. Ron Hubbard save Australia from the Japanese

--snipped for brevity---

For the benefit of curious lurkers, and anyone with a taste for the bizarre, at 4:41, of the below video, from 1985, Scientology attorney Earle Cooley explains...

It's all just one big misunderstanding! That and those damned Nazis!!!

Now let's try to be dignified and respectful and not be so literal minded...


EARLE COOLEY: I wouldn't be so fast to disparage church attorney, Earle Cooley, as a sleazy, lying cult mouthpiece when he is richly deserving of so much more. Especially considering that he has elevated the craft of ambulance chasing to nearly galactic scale involving the opportunistic & aggressive solicitation of more advanced methods of transportation such as DC-8s.

HEBER JENTZCH: It's always a treat to watch Heber begin work himself up to a feverish pitch of hysterical Hubbardian histrionics that always belligerently crescendos with waving pieces of paper and yelling about Nazis that are out to get his beloved church.

Both of their performances are like bad outtakes from casting sessions for a horror-genre B-movie from D-Actors that didn't even get the parts. If Heber is the OT he claims to be it must be for Overwrought Theatrics.

I know people in the cult have lost their conscience, but hadn't realized they also rendered their human reflexive-cringe-response impotent as well.

I hate to say it, but not having seen Heber in front of the cameras for some years (which is a good thing for the cult) I have to admit that the "Hole Tech" actually seems be working.
 
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Sindy

Crusader
Re: L. Ron Hubbard save Australia from the Japanese

OK I have to ask - is that poem actually written by Rathbun? It reads like a lot of his rubbish but I wanted to check because it reads like Vogon poetry.

Seriously Marty - have you ever heard of the words "scansion" "rhythm" and "meter"???[/QUOTE]

Schmaltzy, Juvenile and Corny are very effective Scansion, Rhythm and Meter repellants. :biggrin:
 
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