I am the guy apollo is talking about. I need your help!!!! here is my story

Julian100

Patron
Okay guys! I am that guy he is talking about. I am his friend. Anyways I am going to make a long story short. I have a history of doing psych meds.
I joined the church to get off of that. I paid like 1600 for doing the purif. Later they found they can not offer me that service cuz I did meds and the new life center would have to do that. But i had a hard time getting a hold of the girl that sold it to me and took my credit card money. She really tried to sell me hardcore. And I kept calling her everyday she never responded until i found out she is not at liberty to talk to me.

So then the church told me I could get my money back because I was not able to do their service. But then the sea org called me and said I would be kicked out if i got my money back. I was in rage and she just remained calm. But then the girl in charge at the church said in my situation I can get my money back because I am not able to do service there. So they did give me back that check for around $1500 or 1600.

So I did my detox at the new life center. After 1 and a half months I finished my time over there. I went back to the church, they told me I now need to do TR's and Objectives. So I payed about $750 plus $100 for the books and stuff. They kind of got the money from me as quick as they could.

3 days into the course the day time girl told me to take a break for a month or so. I told her I wasn't feeling well physically so she told me to get well and come back in a month so that i could focus better. So I came back in a month. Then they told me that there is prerequisites to getting back into TR's and Objectives. They said because I am not eligible even though I payed my money. The reason is because I took meds and their is special procedure for me. I would have to complete all my basic courses plus the minister course and then the scienotlogy helping course.

But then the guy had promised me that I would get my money back. I was skeptical because you know how scientology is with that. They get all funny.
So for 3 weeks the guy said that he needed to ask the treasury the procedure about getting me my money back. In the meantime he had me taking my first basic course. He said it would take 6 months to a year probably to complete all these courses which would cost about 2 grand more. So basically he kept forgetting to ask the treasury or whatever you call it.

So then 3 weeks later he got a hold of the treasury. Then he told me that the person that would know would be this other officer named Ryan. And so then I asked Ryan if I could get my money back. He said that if I were to get a refund, I would not be allowed into the church anymore. I said that it was crazy because Karl had said I would be given a refund no question asked. He said that the church kind of holds grudges because I already got money back from them for the detox. But then I explained that the only reason I got that money back was so I could use that money to where they can offer me service. He said it doesn't matter. He said I can use the money i have on the account and use it for the other services. He said either I am in or I'm out. He said he doesn't have time for all this. Said that it's disrespectful considering others have 80 grand or 20 grand on their account and are appreciative.

So I went back to Karl and was like what the heck man? You said I would be given my money back! Then he said, well when we say ''refund'' we don't really mean refund. But we mean you can use that money to buy the other services. Infact I would take that 700 bucks and spend it on the lectures. The lectures are 3 grand but with using that money would be 700 dollars cheaper. I asked him why he told me i would get my money back then. Then he kind of laughed and was like eh, same thing, you know what I meant.

So then I told Ryan that I want my money back for real even if it meant getting kicked out. I told him he should never sell me all these services if they are always going to turn around and say i can't do the service. He said i was NOT refused service. He said i have the right to take the service, just that there are prerequisites.

So he sent me to Ronaldo, the guy that would be refunding me the money. Ronaldo talked to me for 2 hours and told me that it's my choice but it's a dark world out there and the doors would be shut for me. He had me read a couple of books and then after that he showed me the steps. I would have to get a notary signing and then all this other stuff. I just lost focus and didn't want to deal with it. It was already 2 months and now I had to go to a notary and do all these other procedures. I don't know, I gave up and remained in limbo for 1 and a half years.

Then i had 2 church members call me up last week. They invited me to a seminar so they could fix our problems. Then they were talking to the new guy and told him they need to look into my account. He said their may be complications and would call me back. Then i got an email from the guy Ryan. This is what it said.

Hi Julian,

This is Ryan. You may remember me from 2008. I looked into your account and see that you got a full repayment way back in October (A check for $1861). Email me back if you have any questions.

Ryan

And then I called and said that they still owe me the money for the Tr's and objectives. they never payed me. I don't even know what the 1861 was for. It was more like 1600. He said he had talked to the finances department. They told him that they payed me off already. But it's not true. It's been over a year now and I am pretty pissed off again. They took my money and never gave me service for the money I payed. Now they claim to have gave me all my money back. Not true.
 

Once bitten

Patron Meritorious
Hi Julian. Welcome and thanks for your story .... I'm sure there are people on the board who can help you. What a bloody drama.
 

Cherished

Silver Meritorious Patron
If I were you, I'd go to the nearest Small Claims court and file a complaint. It's not too difficult. The Court staff may give you a little guidance in filling out the form. You can't use a lawyer.

They will pay you back quick smart.
 

thetanic

Gold Meritorious Patron

Julian100

Patron
I just got an email back from Ryan. He said he understands my frustration and will look into it and get back to me. Something tells me I have heard this before. : )
 

Sleepyhead

Patron
Hi Julian100

Others have given you some legal ideas so I won’t bother adding to that (for now anyway). In my experience it can be a complete mistake to attempt to REASON with that outfit, so a legal avenue is probably the best bet in any case...

I have been in a similar situation with Scn myself. I was involved in the group for over twenty years.This includes spending over $10,000 U.S. during said period, and spending about two years on staff during my first few years of involvement (though not technically eligible for staff as it turns out). Most of that time Scientology considered me an “illegal pc” (like yourself by the sound of things), and most of the $10,000 was for training so I could become a trained auditor and then “petition for auditing.”

My personal view here is that the Scientology organisation is fraudulent to the nth degree, and that Scn itself is largely a pseudo-science con. You are of course welcome to reach different conclusions, but I would recommend you use this forum to explore these aspects. There are also people here who don’t like the current “official” Scn. organization, but who still use “LRH data” to varying degrees, for example- these sometime describe themselves as "Freezoners."

AFAIK most FZers and ex-Scns consider the whole "SP declare" thing to be absolute BS. PLEASE investigate this if your'e at all concerned about it.

Above all else I hope you can take some comfort from the fact that you may have been conned, but at least the time and money involvements so far are relatively modest compared to mine (= :duh: :eyeroll:...).

Good luck.
 
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Apollo355

New Member
Hey Jule... as many poster can agree with me claims court is probably the most economical and viable option for you in your case, especially for such a small amount.

I would give Ryan another chance to see if he can resolve it and be sure to have him list the check number, date, bank AND the address that they claimed they sent it to on EMAIL. That way you have a papertrail to show to court should you go that far... especially since you no longer have proof of what you paid them.

Remember the more you have in writing from them the more ammunition you've got.
 
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Julian100

Patron
Yes sleep you are right. My money is still small compared to you. Even my uncle has spent 80 grand on scientology and is in major debt because of it. However, he says it changed his life. But I don't know why scientologists all act weird. When you talk to them about anything else most of them just act like normal people. But when it comes to anything that has to do with the church, they are just so weird. Especially when it comes to trying to get your money back. The bottom line is the reason why i wanted a refund is because (1.) they said i should get a refund no questions asked and (2.) I never got the service that i paid for

You know I think it's insane how they can just charge thousands of dollars for all their stuff and feel it's okay. When you say you don't want to buy a lecture for 3 or 4 grand they start acting like you have major finance problems. I told them I can just by the stuff on ebay or borrow it from my uncle. Then they get all weird and tell me that I need to have the lectures, my own lectures, on me at all times.

2 years ago there was a guy named Ron Smith from the Sea Org. I was heavily depressed as I just got off the drugs and he was pressuring me to get out my credit card. He said he is not trying to sell me and that if anyone tried to sell me the lectures in scientology, that it's a tragedy. He even apologized for the people who tried to sell me. Then a minute later he came back at me and told me that I need my lectures or else he is going to end up at my funeral in 5 years and that it would be very sad. He said that the lectures is not about selling but rather it's a life or death situation. He called me for 1 week straight and filled up my voicemail every single day. He even said I don't want you to give me your credit card number. All I want you to do is hold it out in front of you, get it out of your wallet, and tell me what it looks like. Then he would call me and tell me he loves me and that he is just like my father and that I'm a son to him. Then when i didn't give him the CC number for a week he snapped and left a voice mail and said, we need you to join right now, we can't wait another day Julian. This has to be done right now, let's have a win, call me back RIGHT now, lets have a win! call me back with your credit card number RIGHT now Julian. And then he called back 10 minutes later and did the same thing. I almost was going to give him my credit card number but then I just could not do it. I mean spend 3500 just for some cd's that I don't even want? He don't care about me.
 

thetanic

Gold Meritorious Patron
You're absolutely right: he doesn't care about you. This kind of BS goes on in the Co$ all the time.
 

i'mglib

Patron with Honors
Hi Julian,
A couple things.

First $1600 is a lot of money to walk away from. Even if others have spent more, that doesn't change the fact that $1600 is a month's rent on a two bedroom apartment. It's 80 hours of work if you make $20 and hour. You shouldn't be brow beaten out of your hard earned money.

Also, going to small claims court does not involve an attorney. In fact, attorneys are not allowed in small claims court. You go yourself. That's what it's for. I've done it before and it's no big deal.

Finally, if all you have to do is get something notarized, nothing could be easier. Virtually any mailing place has a Notary Public. It costs something like $20. You know those places that have boxes and mailing stuff, where you bring packages you want to send? Go there. They almost always have a person working there who is also a Notary.

Good luck to you.
 

Julian100

Patron
Hi Julian,
A couple things.

First $1600 is a lot of money to walk away from. Even if others have spent more, that doesn't change the fact that $1600 is a month's rent on a two bedroom apartment. It's 80 hours of work if you make $20 and hour. You shouldn't be brow beaten out of your hard earned money.

Also, going to small claims court does not involve an attorney. In fact, attorneys are not allowed in small claims court. You go yourself. That's what it's for. I've done it before and it's no big deal.

Finally, if all you have to do is get something notarized, nothing could be easier. Virtually any mailing place has a Notary Public. It costs something like $20. You know those places that have boxes and mailing stuff, where you bring packages you want to send? Go there. They almost always have a person working there who is also a Notary.

Good luck to you.


Oh i know. this was over a year ago. At the time I felt threatened to leave though. I had got off drugs, they told me they were my only hope. And i liked a lot of the girls there, I no that's not a good reason. But i was going through a hard time and they were like my home. They told me the notary would be a couple hundred bucks. But now they emailed me saying that they don't owe me.
 

moontaco

Patron with Honors
2 years ago there was a guy named Ron Smith from the Sea Org. I was heavily depressed as I just got off the drugs and he was pressuring me to get out my credit card. He said he is not trying to sell me and that if anyone tried to sell me the lectures in scientology, that it's a tragedy. He even apologized for the people who tried to sell me. Then a minute later he came back at me and told me that I need my lectures or else he is going to end up at my funeral in 5 years and that it would be very sad. He said that the lectures is not about selling but rather it's a life or death situation. He called me for 1 week straight and filled up my voicemail every single day. He even said I don't want you to give me your credit card number. All I want you to do is hold it out in front of you, get it out of your wallet, and tell me what it looks like. Then he would call me and tell me he loves me and that he is just like my father and that I'm a son to him. Then when i didn't give him the CC number for a week he snapped and left a voice mail and said, we need you to join right now, we can't wait another day Julian. This has to be done right now, let's have a win, call me back RIGHT now, lets have a win! call me back with your credit card number RIGHT now Julian. And then he called back 10 minutes later and did the same thing. I almost was going to give him my credit card number but then I just could not do it. I mean spend 3500 just for some cd's that I don't even want? He don't care about me.
Jesus. I know that this kind of thing is routine for the CoS, and it's not a surprise to most people here. I've heard of this being done but I've never experienced it myself, and your description is so vivid, it really makes it hit home how relentlessly they hammer at you, pulling out all the stops to coerce you. I am glad they have not sucked you in.
 

Div6

Crusader
Yes sleep you are right. My money is still small compared to you. Even my uncle has spent 80 grand on scientology and is in major debt because of it. However, he says it changed his life. But I don't know why scientologists all act weird. When you talk to them about anything else most of them just act like normal people. But when it comes to anything that has to do with the church, they are just so weird. Especially when it comes to trying to get your money back. The bottom line is the reason why i wanted a refund is because (1.) they said i should get a refund no questions asked and (2.) I never got the service that i paid for

You know I think it's insane how they can just charge thousands of dollars for all their stuff and feel it's okay. When you say you don't want to buy a lecture for 3 or 4 grand they start acting like you have major finance problems. I told them I can just by the stuff on ebay or borrow it from my uncle. Then they get all weird and tell me that I need to have the lectures, my own lectures, on me at all times.

2 years ago there was a guy named Ron Smith from the Sea Org. I was heavily depressed as I just got off the drugs and he was pressuring me to get out my credit card. He said he is not trying to sell me and that if anyone tried to sell me the lectures in scientology, that it's a tragedy. He even apologized for the people who tried to sell me. Then a minute later he came back at me and told me that I need my lectures or else he is going to end up at my funeral in 5 years and that it would be very sad. He said that the lectures is not about selling but rather it's a life or death situation. He called me for 1 week straight and filled up my voicemail every single day. He even said I don't want you to give me your credit card number. All I want you to do is hold it out in front of you, get it out of your wallet, and tell me what it looks like. Then he would call me and tell me he loves me and that he is just like my father and that I'm a son to him. Then when i didn't give him the CC number for a week he snapped and left a voice mail and said, we need you to join right now, we can't wait another day Julian. This has to be done right now, let's have a win, call me back RIGHT now, lets have a win! call me back with your credit card number RIGHT now Julian. And then he called back 10 minutes later and did the same thing. I almost was going to give him my credit card number but then I just could not do it. I mean spend 3500 just for some cd's that I don't even want? He don't care about me.

There are people who would LOVE to hear those voice mails. I know it is a total long shot, as you probably deleted them long ago....

Good for you for not allowing yourself to be manipulated by the false emotion....
 

Julian100

Patron
yea your right. I deleted the voicemails long ago. Actually my phone did it automatically I think, either that or i broke it and had got a new one. But yea those voicemails were something else.

''Give me a call back RIGHT now with your credit card. Do it RIGHT now. We can not wait another day Julian, it has to be done today.''

Oh yea, I forgot. He also said, ''Let's a get a win right now. I need you to give me your credit card, well put you out of your misery and it will be all over. Julian you have no other option. You are doomed without your lectures. You need your LECTURES... You need your lectures... You need your lectures.... Guess what? After the $2999 payment, your DONE! Your set for the next 10 years? I need your 16 digit number right now. You told me you have a mastercard, I need it RIGHT NOW, we can't WAIT!''
 

Osiris

Patron with Honors
Thanks for your Story Julian100,

That is exactly the way they talked to me too, different words, but the same bulling approach, for me they stood over me & got me to sign their cheques (to come out of my bank Acc) & they stood over me to fill out Bank Loan Application Documents, & they escorted me to sell my assets, etc... I just want to let you know your not alone, & now I resent them. & hate them with a passion for what they did to me.....

My advice to you, Is get the hell out of there, they will continue to bleed you of money as long as they can communicate with you,.....They promise a lot, even things they cannot deliver, just to get you in, .....then 2 weeks later they want more money from you for something else they say is life & death you need...... Bullshit, This is just my advice,

All the Best Julian100, take control of your life, & Good Luck :thumbsup:
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
Hi Julian, you didn't say where the org is located. If it's CA small claims court, you'll get your money back and you don't need a lawyer. The judge represents the best interests and decides on the facts of the case. All you have to tdo is file in the county it occurred in. If you want, I will send you a link to the specific county's basic form you need to send in with the small filing fee if you tell me where it occurred. The statute of limitations is not over for this matter but you should file the complaint asap to get the ball rolling on getting your refund.


Mary McConnell
 
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