I don't blame the CofS......

[Carmel]

.......I blame all those who enable the CofS.

Whilst people won't exercise their "inalienable rights" for fear of what the CofS will or could do, the CofS will continue to have the power that has been oppressive to so many.

The CofS would have no power if the majority said "NO! No more!"

No matter what the reason, no matter what the circumstances, if the people involved said "NO" and refused to forfeit their rights, the CofS would die.

The power is in *our* hands. The CofS only still has power, coz people (including critics), give it to them.

If most who objected to the CofS stopped giving it power, then the CofS would lose its power.

- When you shut up and say nothing for fear of consequences, you enable the CofS
- When you don't act for fear of repercussions, you enable the CofS
- When you PR BS your scio mates as to where you stand, you enable the CofS

Crikey, if all those who disagreed said so, to their friends and to others, then the CofS would crumble, without any action from outside authorities. To me, it's the Scios, fence sitters and former Scios who permit the CofS to continue, whilst poo pooing it on message boards such as this.

Just imagine if everyone on the same day just told it as it was/is......If they just spoke from the heart with no reservation. If worldwide there were no stops on telling it how it was/is, then we wouldn't need intervention.....The CofS would be a dead duck.

I don't know how to make this happen. I'm just pissed off that it doesn't or hasn't happened. I know for a fact that without the pretence of support from people on the fence, people here, and people in, that the CofS would be no more.

Time to stop pretending or being tight lipped, I reckon. If we who are "in", on the fence, or out, took a stand, then crikey, look at where Scn would be......down the girgler!

IMO, those who *know* but who are not speaking out against it, *are* enabling it.......Not on an individual basis, but on mass.....If all those who *knew* spoke out, we'd have a very different scene.

I have always cut slack to those who would lose too much from speaking out, but of late, my tolerance is thin on those who could but won't. If only former or disgruntled Scios would stand up for what they believe in.......We'd have a very different scene. The CofS only has the power we give it..............Stop giving it the power or letting it oppress you by speaking up and/or by doing what ya wanna do.

A message to some: Stop professing you object to Scn or the CofS whilst your silence and/or inaction is enabling the very thing that ya claim is pissing you off.

 

[Royal Prince Xenu]

I guess, much to Carmel's likely disgust, that I am bound to remain a fence-sitter for the time being. (Carmel is one of the very few who know my true identity).

It's not:
- that I won't speak out against the Church, or
- that I pretend to any in-scios I may have met that I'm still connected.

I was extremely disappointed at the number of submissions "received" by the much acclaimed Inquiry in Australian $cientology's Tax Status, although there is great fudge-the-figures room when it comes to how many people claim to have made submissions that were ignored, lost, found, subjected to their own internal inquiries, lost again and finally buried in soft peat for three months to be recycled as fire-lighters.

I've had no feedback to indicate whether my submission was "accepted" by the Inquiry other than an email that acknowledged it had been "received"--it may have been rejected without further notification, or it may be been accepted as confidential. But how many other people out there are in the same boat, unsure as to whether their submission was accepted as confidential or not? I deliberately requested that mine be published complete with nom de plume to further highlight OSA's behavior (my true ID was disclosed via an MP). If you've read them all, you know that this didn't happen. So is my submission in the Confidential stack, or in the infamous "circular file"?

The file of submissions to the cancelled Inquiry in Scientology in Adelaide in 1985 was a good two inches thick, and that was in the days of everything being snail mail. If I took all those recent 2010 PDFs and printed them twice, even three times to cover the "confidential" ones, I doubt it would get to 1/4 inch. I have downloaded all those PDFs and have 122 files plus the form letter that was submitted 24 times, making a total of 148 "submissions" or annexures thereto. That amounts to squat, considering that most of them are from legal companies only concerned about the administration of such a scheme as opposed to whether $cn warrants a review. To be fair, these could be "derailment" documents on OSA's behalf, who can tell? But a mere 148!?

It is: that I have not come forward as an identified individual.


OK, in my defence:
- I no longer live near any Capital City and a one-man walk Syria Planum in conjunction with City protests would achieve f888 all beyond my asphyxiation, although there are more people in Syria Planum who know my "dirty little secret".
- I no longer live near any Capital City so that Co$ cannot find me.
- When I am next in Sydney (December) if a demo co-incides with my timing, I will most certainly be there, although my reasons for such travel are based on another form of Consumerist Idolatory. (I got tickets to a concert! I'm also still chasing tickets to a similar concert in Carmel's vicinity.) It also includes some medical appointments.

When I left $cn I ended up working in an Insurance environment, and my career subsequently wobbled back and forth between Legal and IT.

Having come out of surgery last week, the next day I had to appear in Court and only had two hours to prepare my appeal (to recover property that was mine and not the Defendant's). It didn't help my demeanor that I was still influenced by anaesthetics nor that Rosemary's Baby was occupying the prosecution chair at the other end of the bench.

The Magistrate commended my appeal, but upon looking up the relevant Act, dismissed it, which means I now have a Police Detective on the Lying-Hook--I've been through one Police Station like a cup of Draino, so another one doesn't really phase me, and this time I will go for the $$$--to come out of the offending Officer's pocket, not the public budget. This is not as scary as taking on the Church, because the police like to quickie these things and bury them to save from embarrassment, and if you do it right, it red flags (oh shit, one of those trigger words) your file so that they think twice about having another go at you, whereas the Church follows hubbard's "bury with paper work and harrass indefinitely", and I don't think I'm up to the strength to handle that.

There is a significant problem with the Defammation laws in New South Wales: no matter how good your argument, Truth is no Defence*. So any disaffected member in NSW can be gagged through the Court--I'm not sure how this works in other States, and yes, it would take a co-ordinated effort for thousands of us to stand-up en masse to ensure the OSA couldn't keep up.

* Adam says to Brad that Cyril is a "dodgey builder who never pays his bills". Cyril, based on Brad as witness brings a case against Adam for Defammation. When the Judge asks Brad, "How did this comment affect your opinion of Cyril?" he may well reply, "I already thought he was a douche-bag anyway, Your Honor." Adam could still lose the case and have to pay unfair moneys to Cyril despite Adam trying to warn Brad that dealing with Cyril could be hazardous to his own business interests.

Carmel, if I'm one of the people you feel has let down the cause, I sincerely apologise, but having spoken with you I reasonably believe that you understand the subtext of this post.

 

[Good twin]

Nope. I believe in freedom of speech and free will. Say what you want to whomever you want to and whenever you feel like it.

Carmel I love you to death, but don't think it's really up to you to tell folks to STFU. Jus' sayin'

 

[Royal Prince Xenu]

Nope. I believe in freedom of speech and free will. Say what you want to whomever you want to and whenever you feel like it.

Carmel I love you to death, but don't think it's really up to you to tell folks to STFU. Jus' sayin'

After carefully crafting my above response to Carmel, I don't think she is telling people STFU.

I read it as "Enough with the lip-service, GTFO there if you really want to make a difference."

Too many people are sitting at their computers and "twiddling their thunbs" instead of really pushing this thing.

As my above post admits, a decent round of thumb-twiddling is my energy expenditure for an entire day--so my physical input is strictly limited.

 

[Carmel]

RPX, I'm not referring to "the cause", nor asking people to do anything which would end them up in shit creek.......I just know that the CofS only has power because people give it to them by their action and inaction. Tonight that fact is really pissing me off and I just posted about it.

 

[This is NOT OK !!!!]

.......

I don't blame CofS.

I DO ! AND IT'S CREATOR L. RON HUBBARD!!

When you PR BS your scio mates as to where you stand, you enable the CofS

-

Yes, but there's page after page of testimonials on this site suggesting that there's better success in communicating "with reality" to your friends still in and trying to gently guide them towards looking. So it may seem to be PR BS, but the validity of either course can only be measured in results.

For my part, using total "Shock and Awe" materials from books, the internet and my personal experiences, I've taken two hard runs at close friends and had a bit of a hair-raising experience with my best friend, but we finally made it to the successful "EP" of his quiet exit. (It was the "Admissions" that turned the tide. )

My other effort was a disaster. NO reality. NO impact. NO result. I feel lucky that I havn't received a Kr in the mail.

So I'm wondering whether I can be more successful (for now) as a quiet warrier rather than a vocal one.

One friend is about to "arrive" at an advanced org to start FPRD in preparation for getting up through OTIII.

What would you have me do?

Full frontal assult as I've been doing, or a rather more nuanced approach?

 

[Carmel]

Nope. I believe in freedom of speech and free will. Say what you want to whomever you want to and whenever you feel like it.

Carmel I love you to death, but don't think it's really up to you to tell folks to STFU. Jus' sayin'

WTF? Who am I telling to STFU?

Hey, for a change, I'm *not* shutting the fuck up, and saying what I think....On this issue, it's about time I reckon. I'm learning to discard some of the the "now I'm supposed to's"

 

[Royal Prince Xenu]

RPX, I'm not referring to "the cause", nor asking people to do anything which would end them up in shit creek.......I just know that the CofS only has power because people give it to them by their action and inaction. Tonight that fact is really pissing me off and I just posted about it.

I'm just hoping that I've managed to meet your criterion for action rather than inaction?

 

[Carmel]

.......

I DO ! AND IT'S CREATOR L. RON HUBBARD!!

-

Yes, but there's page after page of testimonials on this site suggesting that there's better success in communicating "with reality" to your friends still in and trying to gently guide them towards looking. So it may seem to be PR BS, but the validity of either course can only be measured in results.

For my part, using total "Shock and Awe" materials from books, the internet and my personal experiences, I've taken two hard runs at close friends and had a bit of a hair-raising experience with my best friend, but we finally made it to the successful "EP" of his quiet exit. (It was the "Admissions" that turned the tide. )

My other effort was a disaster. NO reality. NO impact. NO result. I feel lucky that I havn't received a Kr in the mail.

So I'm wondering whether I can be more successful (for now) as a quiet warrier rather than a vocal one.

One friend is about to "arrive" at an advanced org to start FPRD in preparation for getting up through OTIII.

What would you have me do?

Full frontal assult as I've been doing, or a rather more nuanced approach?

Hey, back to the point in question.......What power would the CofS have if its people didn't fall prey to it's suppression and manipulation to shut the fuck up?

 

[Zinjifar]

Carmy, I love you too, but, I'll also have to disagree. When you get down to it, people are going to have to decide for themselves how involved they'll be. Yes, it can get irritating that despite all the information out there, Scientology is *still* committing its crimes, but, you just get used to the long haul.

Getting pissed off at the people who seem to avoid or even support 'Mankind's Only Hope' just doesn't go anywhere.

Zinj

 

[This is NOT OK !!!!]

What would you have me do?

Full frontal assult as I've been doing, or a rather more nuanced approach?

So be my "C/S" here.

Do I....

a) "Shock and Awe" total Truth Rundown.

or

b) Convince him to not arrive this fall, but rather concentrate on his business and delay arrival while I take the more gradual approach?

 

[Carmel]

Carmy, I love you too, but, I'll also have to disagree. When you get down to it, people are going to have to decide for themselves how involved they'll be. Yes, it can get irritating that despite all the information out there, Scientology is *still* committing its crimes, but, you just get used to the long haul.

Getting pissed off at the people who seem to avoid or even support 'Mankind's Only Hope' just doesn't go anywhere.

Zinj

Hey, I'm not objecting to people not being proactive.........That is *not* my point. I'm objecting to people falling prey to the manipulation and supression, time and time again, and not taking a stand. There is a difference.

I don't expect anyone to be proactive, but by the same token, I get fucked off when people continually pander to the supression of the CofS and won't/don't take a stand....That's my point here.

 

[He-man]

For me, trying to build up a life after scientology is enough for me, I never choose to be a part of scientology, I never choose the mindfuck. I didn't want to have to be born into a family where scientology is the law and rule of everything.
What I do now has nothing to do with scientology, I'm not fighting it, wich I could, but why should I spend time and risk loosing the connection to my siblings over scientology?

I'm done with it, I think I understand it now, what happened to me and my family. And that's enough at the moment. I just got things that are more important for me to do right now.

I love you Carmel, you are a fighter, but that's how I see it. I just don't want to be involved in taking down scientology, I'm not a fighter.

In a way I feel that we have limited time here. What? eighty years or so? If we are lucky. Maybe more but I don't count on it.
I want to spend my time right now concentrating on my life.

 

[Carmel]

Crikey....I'm not asking anyone to fight.......I'm expressing how I feel about how pissed off I am about the fact that so many PANDER to the fucking CofS and sacrifice so much on so many fronts.

Ya don't have to fight, but God help ya when ya don't step up and take your soul back. And, God help all of us....It's coz so many won't that they can continue to get away with what they do, IMO.

 

[He-man]

Crikey....I'm not asking anyone to fight.......I'm expressing how I feel about how pissed off I am about the fact that so many PANDER to the fucking CofS and sacrifice so much on so many fronts.

Ya don't have to fight, but God help ya when ya don't step up and take your soul back. And, God help all of us....It's coz so many won't that they can continue to get away with what they do, IMO.

"f most who objected to the CofS stopped giving it power, then the CofS would lose its power.

- When you shut up and say nothing for fear of consequences, you enable the CofS
- When you don't act for fear of repercussions, you enable the CofS
- When you PR BS your scio mates as to where you stand, you enable the CofS

Crikey, if all those who disagreed said so, to their friends and to others, then the CofS would crumble, without any action from outside authorities. To me, it's the Scios, fence sitters and former Scios who permit the CofS to continue, whilst poo pooing it on message boards such as this. "

The above hit me right on the spot is how I feel. But I feel the same way you do Carmel alot of times. Its just one of those things, its hard to do what you want when there is alot at stake.

 

[Carmel]

Please don't take this personally....just think for a minute.....if the scios who objected said "no", if the fence sitters said "no", and if the critics said "no", then where would we be?

I reckon we'd be a lot further along than what we are now.

 

[Carmel]

LRH and DM would *not* have gotten away with what they have gotten away with what they have, if people who objected to what they did said "no".

This is my point. I don't see how people can negate this.

LRH and DM would have gotten nowhere if those around them said "no".......People now can say "no".

 

[Carmel]

I just said on chat......

I'm not asking or expecting people to be proactive against the CofS. I'm just asking that people stop falling prey to the Church's dictation/manipulation, and thereby helping to enable it to continue with its abusive practices.

 

[bts2free]

LRH and DM would *not* have gotten away with what they have gotten away with what they have, if people who objected to what they did said "no".

This is my point. I don't see how people can negate this.

LRH and DM would have gotten nowhere if those around them said "no".......People now can say "no".

This may be true Carmel, but people who have been brainwashed might have a hard time saying "no" to those they see as their saviors or leaders. Especially brainwashed people who are stuck in a bubble and can't see outside of it at all.

 

[Zinjifar]

The fact is that it's frustrating. The evil of Scientology is *so* fucking obvious that it's enough to make you tear your hair out when people can't or refuse to see it.

But, eventually you learn to deal with the frustration and just keep the pressure up on your lonesome. The 'critical community' has gone through numerous pushes for 'activism'; all of them have been counter productive. Scientology requires awareness; not 'activism'.

If we could vote to flip a switch, I'd be in the forefront haranguing people to flip the goddam switch already. But, it doesn't work like that.

Zinj