i feel like i just got out of scientology

[GreyWolf]

Welcome, welcome and welcome. And if he called you a "wog" wear it proudly.

 

[tina1000]

I'm not used to message boards like this, so I don't know how to respond to a specific person. Anyway, I have read some stories on here and I've watched a lot of youtube videos of ex members. I am amazed by the stories of what goes on in the church of scientology. I'm amazed that the american government supports this by giving them tax exempt status. I always had a sense that something was off because I noticed the people working there such late hours and once going to an event there I noticed that some of the women on staff were wearing the same dress that appeared to be a 1980s brides maid dress while the "celebrities" were on the other side of the rope enjoying themselves in expensive clothes. I remember being really bothered by that. Then much later, I started to hear about the forced abortions and the rpf and all of that, and my friend kept saying that was crazy and didn't exist. When I say I feel like I just got out of scientology, I didn't mean to underplay what a person really just getting out of scientology goes thru. I have so much respect for all of you having the courage to leave, some after many many years. It's really a testament to the human spirit that that's possible. And I am in complete admiration of your courage.
I was on the skirt of getting involved, but really it was watching the staff and noticing them, how they were worked to death at all hours, that kept me from jumping in, in the beginning. Then fortunately, people started to come out and tell their stories on the internet, and that really helped me stay away. It is amazing, though, that even though I wasn't in it, just thru my friend my thinking became a little askew. I developed a lot of feelings of guilt and questioned my own reasoning at times. Starting to believe that he really did have all the answers, and that I was flawed with my crazy reactive mind. It really did mess with my mind, so I can't even imagine the impact it would have had if I had gotten entrenched in it for real. I did and do love my friend who is in, and mourn the loss of him. But the fact that many of you were in for a while gives me hope that he will open his eyes one day and leave. I know he really loves scientology, and I have no problem with someone doing something that they feel helps them in their life as long as other people are not effected or hurt by it. There is just a thread that seems to be weaved tightly into that organization that is oppressive and abusive and so very deceptive. I could never really figure out what they had to gain by all of that, except for the obvious financial gain. But is it really worth all that? All the money in the world wouldn't be enough to get me to treat people that way. By the way, how can they have an organization that supports "human rights," when they are the biggest offenders. That always confused me to no end. Why even start something like that under the circumstances? Also, someone on this board wrote a little message that said something like "Ray, I haven't forgotten about you my friend." It made me cry because that's my friend's name. There are probably a lot of people there with that name. It just touched me. Anyway, thanks again to everyone here for being so nice. I really do admire you.

 

[Markus]

I had a best friend who I also dated on and off who was a
Hard core scientology in los Angeles. We kept trying to
Make a relationship work but it never did because I wouldn't
Study scientology. He's living with a girl now who is a scientology and
I don't really know him anymore. We were very close for 10
Years. I think I invested too much of myself for too long and I'm sad for
The loss. Although when I look back I think I suffered some
Emotional abuse from him that came from his intense belief
System. With the recession, my business started to fail
And since I was no longer successful he seemed to be suspicious of me.
Always asking me if I had done anything that I was keeping a secret.
I honestly couldn't think of anything,but he always pressed
For more information. Since I wouldn't go to the cos he
Would say things that were belitteling and a put down ,like
The nick names he called me. We weren't a couple for most of our

Friendship, but I would feel imense guilt if I went to see a movie
With someone. Eventhough he was always at the org and we weren't
In a committed relationship. He blamed me for things not
Working out. Honestly, I came from an alcoholic family and scientology
Reminds me very much of other addictive behaviour I've seen.
It was very familiar to me. Let me also say that the people over there
Were not friendly to me once it was clear I wasn't joining.
It was all a nightmare and although I'm glad its over, I am sad
That this cult has taken him and I allowed myself to list all that time
Feeling guilty and thinking I was a bad person for not wanting to go there.

For a long time people were not speaking out and I didn't know why
But it just felt wrong but there were no stories to back up my feelings.
You people who have gotten up the courage are so so brave. Sorry for
The long story. I will stop now. Thanks for listening.

A very warm welcome to you Tina

".... and scientology
Reminds me very much of other addictive behaviour I've seen."

You are so very right. Having part of my family in this cult for over 30 years now I can tell you that you are 100% right with this observation.
Scientologists are acting like drug addicts. They are neglecting their children, they are not able to see what is important in life, they are not able to realize that they hurt themself and others with their strange and mean behaviour, they spend all their money for the drug.......

I hope your friend will find his way out of this cult soon

love
Markus

 

[clamicide]

Welcome Tina

Although you weren't actively involved in the cult, don't discount that feeling that you have of feeling like you just got out. In a way, you did. The games and manipulation that goes on within the cult was also being used on you. Your friend, being indoctrinated was mirroring what he experienced, so you did get a taste of that. It's perfectly understandable if that did affect you.

Would definitely encourage you to keep reading. In some ways, I think you might have some difficulties that us 'exes' did not experience. For example, when we get out, a lot of us know what was going on in the orgs (people who were not on staff might not have the full gist), but for you, I'm sure it's enlightening to know the full story and get some explanations of why things went the way they did.

So, if you need to talk more--work more stuff out--please feel free to post. What you went through is something everyday folk might have trouble grasping. Here you can vent or ask questions and sort it out. Again, welcome.

 

[AnonKat]

Ballerina

Welcome Tina ballerina

I had a best friend who I also dated on and off who was a
Hard core scientology in los Angeles. We kept trying to
Make a relationship work but it never did because I wouldn't
Study scientology. He's living with a girl now who is a scientology and
I n't really know him anymore. We were very close for 10
Years. I think I invested too much of myself for too long and I'm sad for
The loss. Although when I look back I think I suffered some
Emotional abuse from him that came from his intense belief
System. With the recession, my business started to fail
And since I was no longer successful he seemed to be suspicious of me.
Always asking me if I had done anything that I was keeping a secret.
I honestly couldn't think of anything,but he always pressed
For more information. Since I wouldn't go to the cos he
Would say things that were belitteling and a put down ,like
The nick names he called me. We weren't a couple for most of our

Friendship, but I would feel imense guilt if I went to see a movie
With someone. Eventhough he was always at the org and we weren't
In a committed relationship. He blamed me for things not
Working out. Honestly, I came from an alcoholic family and scientology
Reminds me very much of other addictive behaviour I've seen.
It was very familiar to me. Let me also say that the people over there
Were not friendly to me once it was clear I wasn't joining.
It was all a nightmare and although I'm glad its over, I am sad
That this cult has taken him and I allowed myself to list all that time
Feeling guilty and thinking I was a bad person for not wanting to go there.

For a long time people were not speaking out and I didn't know why
But it just felt wrong but there were no stories to back up my feelings.
You people who have gotten up the courage are so so brave. Sorry for
The long story. I will stop now. Thanks for listening.

 

[OutFO38]

I had a best friend who I also dated on and off who was a
Hard core scientology in los Angeles. We kept trying to
Make a relationship work but it never did because I wouldn't
Study scientology. He's living with a girl now who is a scientology and
I don't really know him anymore. We were very close for 10
Years. I think I invested too much of myself for too long and I'm sad for
The loss. Although when I look back I think I suffered some
Emotional abuse from him that came from his intense belief
System. With the recession, my business started to fail
And since I was no longer successful he seemed to be suspicious of me.
Always asking me if I had done anything that I was keeping a secret.
I honestly couldn't think of anything,but he always pressed
For more information. Since I wouldn't go to the cos he
Would say things that were belitteling and a put down ,like
The nick names he called me. We weren't a couple for most of our

Friendship, but I would feel imense guilt if I went to see a movie
With someone. Eventhough he was always at the org and we weren't
In a committed relationship. He blamed me for things not
Working out. Honestly, I came from an alcoholic family and scientology
Reminds me very much of other addictive behaviour I've seen.
It was very familiar to me. Let me also say that the people over there
Were not friendly to me once it was clear I wasn't joining.
It was all a nightmare and although I'm glad its over, I am sad
That this cult has taken him and I allowed myself to list all that time
Feeling guilty and thinking I was a bad person for not wanting to go there.

For a long time people were not speaking out and I didn't know why
But it just felt wrong but there were no stories to back up my feelings.
You people who have gotten up the courage are so so brave. Sorry for
The long story. I will stop now. Thanks for listening.

Hi Tina! Welcome
I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your friend as well as how you were treated by him and the Scientologists.
OutFO38

 

[AnonKat]

Thank you. That's nice to hear that I did a good job. Sorry for all the
Typos : ) I meant to say lost. I woo stop listing too, though : )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfzSmaOGzrU&playnext=1&list=PL9C17437F62C468CD

 

[Jachs]

I'm not used to message boards like this, so I don't know how to respond to a specific person. Anyway, I have read some stories on here and I've watched a lot of youtube videos of ex members. I am amazed by the stories of what goes on in the church of scientology. I'm amazed that the american government supports this by giving them tax exempt status. I always had a sense that something was off because I noticed the people working there such late hours and once going to an event there I noticed that some of the women on staff were wearing the same dress that appeared to be a 1980s brides maid dress while the "celebrities" were on the other side of the rope enjoying themselves in expensive clothes. I remember being really bothered by that. Then much later, I started to hear about the forced abortions and the rpf and all of that, and my friend kept saying that was crazy and didn't exist. When I say I feel like I just got out of scientology, I didn't mean to underplay what a person really just getting out of scientology goes thru. I have so much respect for all of you having the courage to leave, some after many many years. It's really a testament to the human spirit that that's possible. And I am in complete admiration of your courage.
I was on the skirt of getting involved, but really it was watching the staff and noticing them, how they were worked to death at all hours, that kept me from jumping in, in the beginning. Then fortunately, people started to come out and tell their stories on the internet, and that really helped me stay away. It is amazing, though, that even though I wasn't in it, just thru my friend my thinking became a little askew. I developed a lot of feelings of guilt and questioned my own reasoning at times. Starting to believe that he really did have all the answers, and that I was flawed with my crazy reactive mind. It really did mess with my mind, so I can't even imagine the impact it would have had if I had gotten entrenched in it for real. I did and do love my friend who is in, and mourn the loss of him. But the fact that many of you were in for a while gives me hope that he will open his eyes one day and leave. I know he really loves scientology, and I have no problem with someone doing something that they feel helps them in their life as long as other people are not effected or hurt by it. There is just a thread that seems to be weaved tightly into that organization that is oppressive and abusive and so very deceptive. I could never really figure out what they had to gain by all of that, except for the obvious financial gain. But is it really worth all that? All the money in the world wouldn't be enough to get me to treat people that way. By the way, how can they have an organization that supports "human rights," when they are the biggest offenders. That always confused me to no end. Why even start something like that under the circumstances? Also, someone on this board wrote a little message that said something like "Ray, I haven't forgotten about you my friend." It made me cry because that's my friend's name. There are probably a lot of people there with that name. It just touched me. Anyway, thanks again to everyone here for being so nice. I really do admire you.

Just so you know , dont be afraid but a dept of the Corporation of Communist scientology frequently monitors these sites to keep tabs on the 'naughty boys and girls' to locate defectors comrade ,so if you at one point in the future want to reconnect with Ray, i wouldnt say his last name, if you dont care thats cool, sounds like you care for him and by learning what is trapping him in the corporation you may be able to learn a few tricks to help Ray break out of the Berlin or Hub-beria walls.


.

 

[Sekh]

Hi Tina1000! Welcome here!

 

[smartone]

I'm not used to message boards like this, so I don't know how to respond to a specific person. Anyway, I have read some stories on here and I've watched a lot of youtube videos of ex members. I am amazed by the stories of what goes on in the church of scientology. I'm amazed that the american government supports this by giving them tax exempt status. I always had a sense that something was off because I noticed the people working there such late hours and once going to an event there I noticed that some of the women on staff were wearing the same dress that appeared to be a 1980s brides maid dress while the "celebrities" were on the other side of the rope enjoying themselves in expensive clothes. I remember being really bothered by that. Then much later, I started to hear about the forced abortions and the rpf and all of that, and my friend kept saying that was crazy and didn't exist. When I say I feel like I just got out of scientology, I didn't mean to underplay what a person really just getting out of scientology goes thru. I have so much respect for all of you having the courage to leave, some after many many years. It's really a testament to the human spirit that that's possible. And I am in complete admiration of your courage.
I was on the skirt of getting involved, but really it was watching the staff and noticing them, how they were worked to death at all hours, that kept me from jumping in, in the beginning. Then fortunately, people started to come out and tell their stories on the internet, and that really helped me stay away. It is amazing, though, that even though I wasn't in it, just thru my friend my thinking became a little askew. I developed a lot of feelings of guilt and questioned my own reasoning at times. Starting to believe that he really did have all the answers, and that I was flawed with my crazy reactive mind. It really did mess with my mind, so I can't even imagine the impact it would have had if I had gotten entrenched in it for real. I did and do love my friend who is in, and mourn the loss of him. But the fact that many of you were in for a while gives me hope that he will open his eyes one day and leave. I know he really loves scientology, and I have no problem with someone doing something that they feel helps them in their life as long as other people are not effected or hurt by it. There is just a thread that seems to be weaved tightly into that organization that is oppressive and abusive and so very deceptive. I could never really figure out what they had to gain by all of that, except for the obvious financial gain. But is it really worth all that? All the money in the world wouldn't be enough to get me to treat people that way. By the way, how can they have an organization that supports "human rights," when they are the biggest offenders. That always confused me to no end. Why even start something like that under the circumstances? Also, someone on this board wrote a little message that said something like "Ray, I haven't forgotten about you my friend." It made me cry because that's my friend's name. There are probably a lot of people there with that name. It just touched me. Anyway, thanks again to everyone here for being so nice. I really do admire you.

Hello Tina and welcome!

I was in Scientology for 23 years and it does take over your mind completely.

Those staff members you see putting up with that abuse are in the same mindset. They think they're saving the planet and so therefore any abuse they have to go through in order to reach this goal, is worth it.

Well done Tina for not giving in. I hope your boyfriend realises the truth about Scientology soon.

 

[tina1000]

Thank you. I will be sure not to reveal the whole name.
I do have a question that I would love an answer to. Do private
Investigators follow members who are completely in agreement with the
Group and devout? He had two men parked in front of his house once when I was there. He asked them what they were doing they said they were looking for another house and didn't know he lived there. It seemed obvious to me they werent telling the truth.
If it was a lie and they knew where they were. Why would they follow
Someone who was 100% in. Is that normal for them to do? I also remember people from
The church just stopping by. You have to get on the fwy
To get to his place from the church but it was as if they
Were just on a walk like it was Mr Rogers neighbirhood or something.
What's this about?

 

[Div6]

Thank you. I will be sure not to reveal the whole name.
I do have a question that I would love an answer to. Do private
Investigators follow members who are completely in agreement with the
Group and devout? He had two men parked in front of his house once when I was there. He asked them what they were doing they said they were looking for another house and didn't know he lived there. It seemed obvious to me they werent telling the truth.
If it was a lie and they knew where they were. Why would they follow
Someone who was 100% in. Is that normal for them to do? I also remember people from
The church just stopping by. You have to get on the fwy
To get to his place from the church but it was as if they
Were just on a walk like it was Mr Rogers neighbirhood or something.
What's this about?

Hi Tina,

First, very well done on not drinking the Kool-Aid. Trust your perceptions.
There is a real interesting book that gives some insight into the minds of people who join "movements", called "The True Believer" by Eric Hoffer. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_True_Believer) One of the points he makes is that all movements start out as a great cause (Clear the planet!), become businesses ("Church") and degenerate into rackets. This organization is in its "racket phase", so you are well to stay away. That is not to say that there may not be some philosophy within the subject of Scientology that might be of interest to you, but most of it is now freely available, and can be read without having to join anything.

Ok...to your specific question..it is not usual for the Church to spy on "regular members". They usually reserve that for "apostates" and "enemies". But the CoS has ceased rationality, even by their own standards, so it is possible, that if they thought an "advanced" member was getting ready to hit the exit, they very well could "put them under surveillance". Has you friend done advanced courses? (OT levels)?

 

[Jachs]

Thank you. I will be sure not to reveal the whole name.
I do have a question that I would love an answer to. Do private
Investigators follow members who are completely in agreement with the
Group and devout? He had two men parked in front of his house once when I was there. He asked them what they were doing they said they were looking for another house and didn't know he lived there. It seemed obvious to me they werent telling the truth.
If it was a lie and they knew where they were. Why would they follow
Someone who was 100% in. Is that normal for them to do? I also remember people from
The church just stopping by. You have to get on the fwy
To get to his place from the church but it was as if they
Were just on a walk like it was Mr Rogers neighbirhood or something.
What's this about?

Generally i would say NO, what you are describing is not a normality, it(private investigators) would have to do with any danger, if you were a reporter, had family ties to Government, armed forces , or a known defector publicly speaking out etc and they wanted to check you out then yes most definitly.

Normally the new devout recruit is sheltered from any obvious OPs being run on him/her until he becomes more obedient and surrenders to the cause, thus covert plausible truths like we were just dropping by (scouting mission) ,are employed as the interrogators tool of deception, but your boyfriend could have known about it and agreed to the visit.

.

Go with your gut feeling is usually a better detection than anything else.

 

[Jachs]

There is a real interesting book that gives some insight into the minds of people who join "movements", called "The True Believer" by Eric Hoffer. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_True_Believer) One of the points he makes is that all movements star out as a great cause (Clear the planet!), become businesses ("Church") and degenerate into rackets. This organization is in its "racket phase", so you are well to stay away. That is not to say that there may not be some philosophy within the subject of Scientology that might be of interest to you, but most of it is now freely available, and can be read without having to join anything.

Id not heard of this book, thanks Div 6, another to the collection.

 

[tina1000]

Yes Div6, he is in the OT levels. But he's pretty devoted, unless there is something I don't know about him. I hope there is. He was having a dinner party that night, so there were a few people there, all of them Scientologists, but me. There was a girl there with her husband. They were supposedly joining the Sea Org. Her husband already joined, but she was trying to pay off some debt before she joined him. That's the story they told. They both ended up routing out in the end. Maybe they were following them? Thanks for the book suggestion. I will get that. I appreciate it.

 

[tina1000]

Hello and welcome, Tina1000!
Yes, the economy, to be very clear has nothing to do with your success or failure in a business. Just ask Rex Fowler! (joke). No wonder you were suspect!!

That is the cult mentality. It is a narrow and sick mentality when held up in the light. Unfortunately, scientologists live in their own little world with their own bigoted views and anything or anyone outside of that is just not worthy.

You are the lucky one!!! Only on the peripheral and only for 10 years. Close enough but you didn't let 'em grab you! Good for you!!

I know it seems like a long time and I'm sorry you feel you wasted it but life is a journey and I'm glad you came to a fork in the road! The world is your oyster!! Enjoy your life and new beginnings!

And hope you'll hang around here! I think the views of people who were never "in" but see scn for what it is are always interesting.

I just Google Rex fowler. What a story!!!
I had no idea. Poor guy that was killed. I guess a failed
Business isn't just for the wog people. I feel good about being a
Wog now. Thanks.

RPF - only for members of the Sea Org (the most dedicated/gullible Scientologists). I've never been on it. For people who have fucked up. Near as I can tell, it's straight up brainwashing. Some people are assigned to the RPF for ten years or more... Maybe someone else can tell you more about it. They are not supposed to talk to other Scientologists, and there are some restrictions on them to stop them from escaping, I think.

What you do when you go on course? Sit and read, look up obscure words in the biggest dictionaries available, sit and listen to taped lectures, watch films, do "demos" with the "demo kit" or with clay, do practical assignments (go to this place and survey these people, or recite lines from Lewis Carrol to someone standing thirty feet away, or sell a Dianetics book to a person on the street, or practice giving a certain massage/"assist" to a teddy bear, or do a fake auditing session with a teddy bear...) Every course has a checksheet that you follow, you do the assignments one by one and initial your name on the checksheet after you do each one. A dedicated public Scientologist will be on course 24/7... but if he was REALLY dedicated, he would have already joined staff or the Sea Org by now.

Y

 

[AnonyMary]

Hi tina, while you are up and visiting the forum, check out this docu-drama
on scientology discussed in another thread and again recently here:
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?p=554837

Very good demonstration of how scientology separated people, You will be able to relate to it, what happened in your situation, except the couple are married and....

 

[tina1000]

Thanks Mary. I could related to it. It also helped me fill in
Some blanks about what was really going on. I remember him
Constantly at the org on holidays late at night early in the morning.
I remember him running over there like a drug addict, with his
Locked briefcase tethered to his pants by a leash. I remember him with
Terrible headaches, not willing to take aspirin or rest because he had to be back at
The org in two hours. Now I understand what pressure he was putting on himself
And on me. It was a sad situation. At the very least , tax exempt status should
Be taken away from scientology and they should have to pay
Back pay and overtime to ex and current sea org members. Also prosecuted
For the use of child labor and mistreatment of children. This is my
Wish list. Thanks for the enlightening video.

 

[AnonyMary]

Thanks Mary. I could related to it. It also helped me fill in Some blanks about what was really going on. I remember him
Constantly at the org on holidays late at night early in the morning.
I remember him running over there like a drug addict, with his
Locked briefcase tethered to his pants by a leash. I remember him with
Terrible headaches, not willing to take aspirin or rest because he had to be back at The org in two hours. Now I understand what pressure he was putting on himself

And on me. It was a sad situation. At the very least , tax exempt status shouldBe taken away from scientology and they should have to pay
Back pay and overtime to ex and current sea org members. Also prosecuted
For the use of child labor and mistreatment of children. This is my
Wish list. Thanks for the enlightening video.

I'm glad it helped. You sound like a regular critic now!

Truthfully, you seem to have grown much in this past week or so. I'm happy this forum helped.

I hope your heavy heart is a bit lighter because of the decreased mysteries and increased understanding.

 

[tina1000]

Thanks Mary. Yes, I always was a critic, but I didn't know I was right to be critical.
Always being told these stories were lies. It's clear to me now that they aren't lies. This past week I've gained some certainty. It's still sad to let go
Of a friend,especially knowing that group has a hold of him. But
The certainty really really helps put things into perspective and move away from
All this insanity, without feeling like I'm missing out on something. You
Guys on here are great. thanks for all the information.