I hate when they call me a hater...

Further clarification!

Would everyone please note that I am not talking about hating a person or hating self, although we do all have to grow up and deal with those emotions, as well.

I think I understand the perspective you are offering on this Toady, and thank you! :)
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Gadfly, I'm not following you, really!!! :p

I just want to add this viewpoint, that I think it is very "Theta" to hate injustice, to hate abuse, to hate the damage done by a vicious, violent cult that has always been based on financial fraud for financial gain...

...in the early days it was making medical claims for doing Dianetics auditing, you can throw away your glasses, etc. It's been allowed to evolve into what it is now, and the evidence I see is that there is a secret plan in place to morph it into all these hydra headed other forms (front groups, RTC CST, etc.) NOT called Scientology, just as Dianetics morphed into Scientology when it got a bad reputation, that this was part of a master plan to KSW throughout the world, not matter what happens to the Scientology Organization.

In some situations, it's very Theta to hate oppression, hate greed, etc. and to want to do something corrective and positive about it.

So don't be afraid to hate...it's a healthy human emotional reaction to certain stimulae...just don't get stuck there or build your whole life and persona upon it. Be willing to experience it and move in and out of the feeling, as needed. We have those feelings to help us survive as a species...don't numb out, or deny them, just use them, don't let them use you! :coolwink:

I will try to explain a bit better.

The aim in my post was to take a look at the current modern SOCIAL use of the term, concept and related actions. Such as "hate-speech", "hate-groups", etc. These ideas get LOTS of mileage in the media these days. And in politics.

I was talking about the way OSA spins things to appear as "hate", because various social and political institutions have been set up to address "hate". In the past, and probably even now, OSA has inserted members into various Internet discussion boards to appear as crazy, over-the-top hateful critics, so that they can then chronical the examples of "hate" and spin it against the discussion area that they don't like. Now you might say, you HATE how they do that. I simply observe that they do it, and try to point out their nasty misrepresentations to others.

I don't like what they do. Meaning I have no affinity for what they do. I have no desire to be around people who behave in that manner because I see it as slimy, low-handed human behavior. But I feel no "dislike" - meaning some emotion against their actions. I have rarely ever hated anything, as some intense personal emotion, even when people have done really nasty things to me, though of course I find those people distasteful and I tend to thereafter choose to have nothing to do with them. Maybe real full-blown raging "hate" serves a purpose for some people, but it never has for me. I find it quite useless. And that in no way diminishes my ability to point out and be very critical of people and groups thought to be deserving of hate by others.

I never "thought" myself into being this way, through some ideal or discipline, but instead, that is how I have been. In other words, I didn't latch onto some book or set of ideas that discussed "not hating", and then tried to become THAT, but instead, I just never did. I am trying to describe how I have observed myself over the years. Of course, OSA would hate it if I couldn't be made to appear as some irrational "hater", because they hate THIS more than anything - a person who can calmly make decent arguments about why the C of S is so fucked up.

I don't "hate greed'. I just have no use for it. I don't "hate oppression", I just have no use for it. I don't even "hate" terrorists. Again, I just have zero use for them. And, anyone who has read what I have to say about the C of S and oppression leaves no doubt that I view them very unfavorably. I just LOOK at it for what it is, have no emotional response at all, and simply find these things you say are okay "to hate" as disinteresting, not desirable, not worthy of any admiration, etc.

Do you possibly mean "hate" as a METAPHOR? In that sense I suppose I may hate some things, but only as a very loose metaphor.

My view on nearly all emotions is that they cloud my perception. That is based on nearly 60 years of quite sincere personal examination all along the way. Of course, I still have attitudes and views of things that I find abhorrent. I can easily find fault with them, explain what is wrong with them to others, but I have no "hate".

Again, it works for me.

But also, I have been on a path to "transcend" being a human (as an animal with various instincts). That is partially why I got into Scientology. I thought that it was a path that could lead me up to "higher states of consciousness". Part of my aim was to abandon and transcend what you describe as "those feelings to help us survive as a species". Also, never forget that ALL is evolving, including the human species, and the part that Man's mind plays and the part that Man's emotions (and animal instincts) play may be shifting in balance and importance as the Universe unfolds.

I don't suppress, or numb out, or invalidate "hateful feelings". I just don't have them (anymore). Though really, I never had them much even in earlier life. You might find that impossible, because possibly you do have them. Don't make the mistake of extrapolating YOUR personal view and experiences onto all others.

What you find in yourself may not always exist in others. Just saying.

Also I do not see that any "want to do something corrective and positive about it" requires any degree or type of hate. When I spent the time to write my detailed essay on the Three Scientology Beliefs, that very well delineates the MIND TRAP aspects of the Scientology belief structure, I did it from a motivation of "wanting to do something corrective and positive about" handling the problem known as Scientology. Seeing, ackowleging, recognizing, and doing something about evils, to me, does not require that I "hate" it in any way. And, for anyone who has read my essay, I did a pretty good job at pulling back the curtain of Oz on Scientology, maybe better than most, yet it rested on NO foundation of "hate". See?




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Gadfly

Crusader
Article here:

http://forum.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=238956

Here's an example discussing HOW OSA tries to manipulate reality and get others to view and accept its enemies as "haters":

Anti-Scientology Hate Crimes or Freedom of Speech?

Members of the international Anonymous youth protest movement in the UK have just posted this on Youtube. Two ex-Scientologists have recently written, "No one believes the Church of Scientology is a church except Scientologists" and "It is not a hate crime to hate crime." I think the intertwined issues of religion and religious hate crimes is an issue that is becoming more and more important. As is examining this situation in light of the UN Convention on Human Rights.

WARNING! Anti-Hate Police Target UK Anonymous on May 10

Thursday May 8th
Today, LONDON ANONYMOUS was Contacted by the Metropolitan Police and warned that they will be policed by ANTI-HATE crime officers at their protest on Saturday May 10.

Any sign/banner that's based on opinion, rather than fact, will be removed from the Protester and their name taken.

If the officer believes the details given to be false, that protester will be arrested and charged with giving false details and inciting religious hatred.

We don't know as yet whether this is going to apply to the rest of the UK.

This stinks of Scientology colluding with the police to prevent our right to free speech.

If it happens GET THE OFFICERS BADGE NUMBERS - and ensure those responsible are held accountable in front of public inquiry and forced to give proof and reasoning for their decisions.

This is contrary to the UN Convention on Human Rights which states we have the right to protest any religion (not that Scientology is a Religion).


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Do you see what is happening here? These buttons, "hate", "hateful" and "hate crimes" are gaining traction in society. It is becoming more and more unpopular to "hate". So, the C of S will continue to try to attempt to get its critics and enemies labelled as "haters" as a way to shut them up. It is all a fabrication and a pretense. It is OSA just doing what it has always done. What do they "always do"? They manipulate perceptions of reality, changing actualities into (distorted) appearances.


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Gadfly

Crusader
Here is another example where the Church got posts removed from a discussion board because the C of S claimed it to be "hate-speech".

Do you see the game they play? They play this "hate-speech" card in a ploy to silence enemies and critics.

The discussion is here:

http://forums.hornfans.com/php/wwwt...=5465831&page=7&view=expanded&sb=3&o=0&fpart=

Scroll down the thread, and there are TWO places where posts have been removed, and in its place is the comment:

Post no longer available due to a hate-speech claim by the Church of Scientology.

I remember posting on BeliefNet many years ago, and that whole discussion board was destroyed as a place to be able to honestly discuss Scientology because the Church of Scientology WON its attempts to get the owner to silence all critics as spewing out "hate-speech". After having post after post of my own removed, I just left. My posts were largely critical, but in NO WAY "hateful", yet OSA was able to convince the owners that allowing critical posts to stay was somehow encouraging "hate speech".

The owner of BeliefNet may have feared for legal actions from the C of S if they didn't comply to the C of S demands.

Do a Google search using "Scientology + Hate Speech" or "Scientology + Hate Crimes". There are many examples where they try to spin critics into "haters" to shut them up.


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Whoops, my bad!!

I will try to explain a bit better.

The aim in my post was to take a look at the current modern SOCIAL use of the term, concept and related actions. Such as "hate-speech", "hate-groups", etc. These ideas get LOTS of mileage in the media these days. And in politics.

I was talking about the way OSA spins things to appear as "hate", because various social and political institutions have been set up to address "hate". In the past, and probably even now, OSA has inserted members into various Internet discussion boards to appear as crazy, over-the-top hateful critics, so that they can then chronical the examples of "hate" and spin it against the discussion area that they don't like. Now you might say, you HATE how they do that. I simply observe that they do it, and try to point out their nasty misrepresentations to others.

I don't like what they do. Meaning I have no affinity for what they do. I have no desire to be around people who behave in that manner because I see it as slimy, low-handed human behavior. But I feel no "dislike" - meaning some emotion against their actions. I have rarely ever hated anything, as some intense personal emotion, even when people have done really nasty things to me, though of course I find those people distasteful and I tend to thereafter choose to have nothing to do with them. Maybe real full-blown raging "hate" serves a purpose for some people, but it never has for me. I find it quite useless. And that in no way diminishes my ability to point out and be very critical of people and groups thought to be deserving of hate by others.

I never "thought" myself into being this way, through some ideal or discipline, but instead, that is how I have been. In other words, I didn't latch onto some book or set of ideas that discussed "not hating", and then tried to become THAT, but instead, I just never did. I am trying to describe how I have observed myself over the years. Of course, OSA would hate it if I couldn't be made to appear as some irrational "hater", because they hate THIS more than anything - a person who can calmly make decent arguments about why the C of S is so fucked up.

I don't "hate greed'. I just have no use for it. I don't "hate oppression", I just have no use for it. I don't even "hate" terrorists. Again, I just have zero use for them. And, anyone who has read what I have to say about the C of S and oppression leaves no doubt that I view them very unfavorably. I just LOOK at it for what it is, have no emotional response at all, and simply find these things you say are okay "to hate" as disinteresting, not desirable, not worthy of any admiration, etc.

Do you possibly mean "hate" as a METAPHOR? In that sense I suppose I may hate some things, but only as a very loose metaphor.

My view on nearly all emotions is that they cloud my perception. That is based on nearly 60 years of quite sincere personal examination all along the way. Of course, I still have attitudes and views of things that I find abhorrent. I can easily find fault with them, explain what is wrong with them to others, but I have no "hate".

Again, it works for me.

But also, I have been on a path to "transcend" being a human (as an animal with various instincts). That is partially why I got into Scientology. I thought that it was a path that could lead me up to "higher states of consciousness". Part of my aim was to abandon and transcend what you describe as "those feelings to help us survive as a species". Also, never forget that ALL is evolving, including the human species, and the part that Man's mind plays and the part that Man's emotions (and animal instincts) play may be shifting in balance and importance as the Universe unfolds.

I don't suppress, or numb out, or invalidate "hateful feelings". I just don't have them (anymore). Though really, I never had them much even in earlier life. You might find that impossible, because possibly you do have them. Don't make the mistake of extrapolating YOUR personal view and experiences onto all others.

What you find in yourself may not always exist in others. Just saying.

Also I do not see that any "want to do something corrective and positive about it" requires any degree or type of hate. When I spent the time to write my detailed essay on the Three Scientology Beliefs, that very well delineates the MIND TRAP aspects of the Scientology belief structure, I did it from a motivation of "wanting to do something corrective and positive about" handling the problem known as Scientology. Seeing, ackowleging, recognizing, and doing something about evils, to me, does not require that I "hate" it in any way. And, for anyone who has read my essay, I did a pretty good job at pulling back the curtain of Oz on Scientology, maybe better than most, yet it rested on NO foundation of "hate". See?

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Oh honey, I'm sorry, I goofed and miscommunicated. :blush: I said I'm not following you, really, and I meant physically following you around the board, as I had just posted elsewhere immediately after something you had written...:D And here I was "following" your post again!

I should have said: I'm not stalking you! :duh: I was trying to make a joke. I did not mean it in the sense of I don't understand you. I'm sorry. :)

I do understand what you're saying, and I think you're doing great with it! I have read and enjoyed your great essay, and I do understand all of your above posts.

I was speaking of hatred as a personal emotion, not a socio-political ploy or tool, but I'm glad you elaborated on that.
 

Ulf K. Maier

Patron Meritorious
My .02

Calling someone else a "hater" is a great ad-hom and thought-stopper. Nice way to try to get the enemy to lower his gun when you're plumb outta ammo.

Hatred is a great waster of energy better used for constructive pursuits. This doesn't mean we have to be forced to associate with just anyone, either, IMHO.

UKM
 

Mystic

Crusader
I'm having a very hard time hating this thread. I think I'm going to fail at it. Hey, maybe I can hate failing...darn...that didn't work either.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Oh honey, I'm sorry, I goofed and miscommunicated. :blush: I said I'm not following you, really, and I meant physically following you around the board, as I had just posted elsewhere immediately after something you had written...:D And here I was "following" your post again!

I should have said: I'm not stalking you! :duh: I was trying to make a joke. I did not mean it in the sense of I don't understand you. I'm sorry. :)

I do understand what you're saying, and I think you're doing great with it! I have read and enjoyed your great essay, and I do understand all of your above posts.

I was speaking of hatred as a personal emotion, not a socio-political ploy or tool, but I'm glad you elaborated on that.

Got it on the "not following me". LOL!!!!!!!!

Now I AM laughing - the joke is funny! :happydance:
 

NonScio

Patron Meritorious
Well, I think aftter reading this thread, I should be fully hatted
as a hater. Is there a checksheet I need to F/N on before
I get my Cert; before I get my Hate Hat?
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
I know it's wrong to hate but I do hate.

I hate walnuts.
I hate cold sharp cheese.
I hate lima beans.
I hate canned peas.
I hate being cold.
I hate crossing traffic
I hate getting up really early
I hate the rock group Boston
I hate writing people up at work
I hate telemarketing
I hate junk mail

I'm pretty sure it's ok to hate all those things. But sometimes when I find myself hating or really strongly disliking other people, no matter what happened, I wonder where I'm going wrong.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
I know it's wrong to hate but I do hate.

I hate walnuts.
I hate cold sharp cheese.
I hate lima beans.
I hate canned peas.
I hate being cold.
I hate crossing traffic
I hate getting up really early
I hate the rock group Boston
I hate writing people up at work
I hate telemarketing
I hate junk mail

I'm pretty sure it's ok to hate all those things. But sometimes when I find myself hating or really strongly disliking other people, no matter what happened, I wonder where I'm going wrong.

Warning: :overanalyser:

Well Fluffer (ooppps, that is a bad choice of a word :dance: ), as I suggested somewhere here recently, dislike (feeling antipathy or hostility towards) is not the same as not liking (the lack of liking). I do enjoy Hubbard's definition of "affinity", as "degree of willingness to be in the same space as".

So, when you don't have a positive attraction or liking for something, then you simply don't want to be in close proximity - you want to create a distance between you and it. In all those things you mentioned above, I know you really DON'T "hate" them, not like you might hate a psycho who abducts, brutally rapes, and scars for life a 6 year child. It is not like you want to destroy them and vanquish them forever from all reality (well maybe the band Boston . . . :begging: ).

So, my solution is simply to do what having low affinity implies you should do - keep a safe distance, and STAY AWAY from the object of low interest or low liking. See nothing negative at all. Just a lack of the positive ("not liking" as opposed to "disliking).

Solutions:

I hate walnuts. Don't eat them.
I hate cold sharp cheese. Don't eat it.
I hate lima beans. Don't eat them.
I hate canned peas. Don't eat them.
I hate being cold. Stay warm and don't go out in the cold.
I hate crossing traffic Then don't.
I hate getting up really early Then don't.
I hate the rock group Boston Don't listen to them (and hate is "more than a feelin')
I hate writing people up at work The don't.
I hate telemarketing Register them with that service to block their calls.
I hate junk mail Throw it right in the grabage.

In all cases you simply erect a barrier - distance - between you and the thing you would rather not have in your space.

See, that was easy. :dance3:

I think many people often confuse "dislike" with "not like". The first is a negative aimed at or against something, and the latter is the lack of a positive, and they are VERY different animals, though many people use the words interchangeably. I suggest that anyone who actually really feels dislike towards something attempt to reframe it into "lack of liking". Then it changes form a negative emotion into the lack or absence of a positive emotion.



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Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Yep. 'Cept I do have to write up my subordinates if it gets really out there...hate it, yeah, but I don't have the option of not doing it.

And let me reiterate: walnuts are horrible. Hate them. Wish they didn't find their way into soooo many otherwise delicious cookies and cakes....
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Yep. 'Cept I do have to write up my subordinates if it gets really out there...hate it, yeah, but I don't have the option of not doing it.

And let me reiterate: walnuts are horrible. Hate them. Wish they didn't find their way into soooo many otherwise delicious cookies and cakes....

I am sorry to hear about the madatory "writing up". Sounds a bit too much like "KRs" to me. Yikes!! :omg:

And me, I just love walnuts! Yummy! It's funny, I can't find any food that I really react to with automatic sensory disgust. Mmm, let me think. Still thinking. Oh well.

I do stay away from clams and oysters, not because of the taste, but because of the slimy texture. I feel like I am eating boogers!

I keep a distance from raw fish, though mainly because of the high propensity of parasites (which can exist in any uncooked meat). Not due to "taste" reaction, but due to the mind making a disciplined decision about diet.

Ah well, I don't eat much for "pleasure". Not usually anyway. I am mostly an organic vegetarian, and my diet is fairly simple and unadorned. Though, I certainly do have my little guilty pleasures such as occassional (Chinese) garlic shrimp, a homemade chocolate cookie, and yes, my all time favorite, DARK CHOCOLATE!


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nozeno

Gold Meritorious Patron
I love walnuts and they're good for you too.

walnuts.jpg
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
I am sorry to hear about the madatory "writing up". Sounds a bit too much like "KRs" to me. Yikes!! :omg:

And me, I just love walnuts! Yummy! It's funny, I can't find any food that I really react to with automatic sensory disgust. Mmm, let me think. Still thinking. Oh well.

I do stay away from clams and oysters, not because of the taste, but because of the slimy texture. I feel like I am eating boogers!

I keep a distance from raw fish, though mainly because of the high propensity of parasites (which can exist in any uncooked meat). Not due to "taste" reaction, but due to the mind making a disciplined decision about diet.

Ah well, I don't eat much for "pleasure". Not usually anyway. I am mostly an organic vegetarian, and my diet is fairly simple and unadorned. Though, I certainly do have my little guilty pleasures such as occassional (Chinese) garlic shrimp, a homemade chocolate cookie, and yes, my all time favorite, DARK CHOCOLATE!


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Wel, it starts with an oral warning. People are never written up if they haven't been talked to before. It's for situations that just don't resolve. It's in lieu of hauling someone into an office, screaming at them and then firing them- which are things I've seen in other places, in the past.

Unfortunately, there are situations where one has to do something with one's staff. I hate playing babysitter but sometimes I have to step in and say something.
 

Sindy

Crusader
The dreaded "H" word.

Not Hubbard--that's a different thread.

Hate.

Hate is the new "SP". It's the new "Psych".

It's the new (***fill in any one of the dozens of "enemies" that L. Ron Hubbard told you to hate***).

Now when Marty or his posse label someone a hater the knee-jerk reaction is to think/say: "No wayyyy. I am not a hater!"

It's a very bad thing to be apparently.

But, I am proud to be a hater. In fact I love being a hater, lol.

Why?

Because there is no up without down. There is no light without dark. There is no love without hate.

I love living in a world that has choices. That is one of the biggest blind spots that Scientologists have. They have been carefully taught that only theta (love, arc) is good.

They have been thoroughly indoctrinated that entheta (hate, disgust, contempt) is bad.

That's why so many Scientologists robotically recite the words "theta" with alarming frequency. That's why they push smiles (VGIs) at you and beam with Tom Cruise-like intensity into your soul.

What's wrong with hate?

It's cool when used for good.

I dare say that hate (intelligently directed at hate-worthy targets) is one of the greatest forces of good in the world.

As love is.

Hating fair game is wonderful!

Hating Hubbard's con game is a blessing.

Hating disconnection is brilliant.

It empowers one to actually do something about it.

Hate....splurge on it!

Gotta agree with ya here and just because he can say that you "hate" something doesn't mean you're consumed with hate. When I think about it, what a stupid statement it is for Marty to say, "That guy is a hater" as it's not as if Marty is sitting in a temple with a halo over his head meditating on how to peacefully get Miscavige to come to his senses. :coolwink:
 

TrevAnon

Big List researcher
Marty is sitting in a temple with a halo over his head meditating

This calls for a shoop! Too bad I suck at making them. :duh:

Edit: Yay! And now I have two stars. Never thought I would get there...
 
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