I have a new opinion about ESMB

[TG1]

Alanzo, show 'em how it's done. Start your own board.

 

[Zinjifar]

Such a nice post this one http://isene.wordpress.com/2010/11/25/on-enjoying-the-game-immensely/

​

Thanks Geir

But, what does *enjoying* have to do with your 'ruin', discovering or creating? What does it have to do with *escaping*? What does it have to do with 'Scientology' as created by Ron as our last hope?

Zinj

 

[Alanzo]

Alanzo, show 'em how it's done. Start your own board.

And have to put up with all you stupid fuckers?

No way.

 

[Zinjifar]

And have to put up with all you stupid fuckers?

No way.

Besides, the mutinies are no fun. Every try to flog yourself with a cat-o-nine-tails? Pointless.

Zinj

 

[Mark A. Baker]

I'm going to say something that is neither here nor there wrt anything you or Emma is doing. This is just Claire's rant. Ok? Bear with me. I love my FZ friends but I actually really really really dislike success stories. I have done some stuff with an FZ auditor in the past year. Part of my take from column A, column b dabblings. Liked what I did but I fucking CRINGED when my lovely friends would whip out the foolscap and pen. I just ain't down with that.

I'm a freezoner and I detest "success stories". The only meaningful "test" of auditing is whether or not the pc is satisfied. Anything else is "introduction of an arbitrary".


Mark A. Baker

 

[RogerB]

You've made the point better than I did.

Dex, I know you took this very personally and I'm sorry you are upset. I've said to you in the past that out of anyone who still audits Scientology tech I respect you the most. This is still true.

I'm a hot head basically. I knew that if I posted what I posted, when I posted it, I'd most likely piss a lot of people off but at the time I didn't care. I was just so angry and frustrated at what I've seen recently that I had to say something or I was gunna explode. My stress levels are at an all time high right now and I really should take a weeks vacation somewhere.

If I could write my post all over again (which I won't because I don't believe in revisionism) I think I'd say something a bit less polarizing and calmer, but my beliefs would be the same.

I TRULY don't understand how someone like yourself, who openly states that you take bits & pieces of the tech, plus added bits from elsewhere, who doesn't do the Hubbard abuses can call yourself a Scientologist. I also don't understand how you (and others in that group) can continue to allow the most outrageous bullshit to be carried on whilst holding yourselves up to some unachievable (Scn bullshit) standards.

I believe you are just like me. You see some stuff in Scientology that you think works. Well hold on to your hat, coz so do I. I actually like some bits & pieces of Scientology (most likely the bits Hubbard stole but nevertheless my introduction to them was through Scientology). I was a trained Class V auditor in Scientology and also a trained Sup. I was on staff for 8 years and I was pretty good at auditing and suping. I knew my stuff. But I would never hang a Scn FZ shingle up and audit because what I'd be auditing and how I do it could not be called Scientology and I wouldn't want the label anyway.

Per Hubbard himself, a Scientologist is a KSW adherent. If you are not this then don't call yourself one (IMHO).

The reason I got so upset wasn't really because of what Terril wrote about my husband on his yahoo list. I was because I saw so much natter and blame & make wrong in just a page of posts that i was flabbergasted. Here I was on a yahoo list of people who claim to be Scientologists and I didn't see ANY Scientology being used. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing but it did make me mad.

I admit my initial reaction was "These guys are no better because they've left Scientology or because they are still in Scientology, yet we get constant "success stories" and Pollyanna type reviews coming out of the FZ that it all looked to me like a pack of PR lies".

On my board in the last week I've seen covert operations to "out" a woman (twice) by senior personal in your Freezone. The woman outed (also a senoir member of your freezone) has been acting crazy and telling lies about me on someone else's blog to garner sympathy. Then I see all manner of personal & private information being posted about me and others that was likely unethical and sensitive on the Yahoo list and I think "Fuck, these folk are insane".

But what it really is, is that you aren't insane, you are JUST LIKE EVERYBODY else. Some of you are smart & kind and ethical and some of you are mean & vindictive and batshit crazy, but if you all call yourselves FZ Scientologists then you are all coming under the one umbrella and it gives the impression that the whole group is crazy in times like these.

This has probably come across as garbled and jumbled but I'm not about to rewrite it. I hope I've communicated what I wanted to say. If not I'll try again in another post.

Nothing more to say, in my view.

This post does a couple of things:
It clarifies the background to the scenario you were making reference to, and based on this added info I'd say you're perfectly in order to refer to them as . . . I'll try another word: WARPED! Fuggen warped!

And the sad thing about scenarios like this, so many good and sensible folks just stand around and let the shitheads throw their muck around without calling the shitheads on it . . . and so it is perfectly in order to lump the tacit silent saboteurs in with the bad actors as they have failed to act to correct the rot.

The other thing about this post of Emm's is that it demonstrate the lady is a class act.

RogerB

 

[Mark A. Baker]

On my board in the last week I've seen covert operations to "out" a woman (twice) by senior personal in your Freezone. The woman outed (also a senoir member of your freezone) has been acting crazy and telling lies about me on someone else's blog to garner sympathy. Then I see all manner of personal & private information being posted about me and others that was likely unethical and sensitive on the Yahoo list and I think "Fuck, these folk are insane".

A couple of points of clarification, Emma. Aida is not "senior personnel in your Freezone". She IS a well respected person and a professional auditor but there is no "freezone hierarchy" and Aida is about as independent as they come.

I know Aida and enjoy her friendship. She can be very "temperamental", possibly due in part to her latin cultural origins. But I've always found her to be highly intelligent and quite responsive to reason, although something of a "tigeress" when she feels either her family or herself are under attack. She happens to feel that she has been under attack most egregiously and most unfairly for some time now, both by TO and those who would use her dispute with TO against her.

I happen to share your view of the idiocy of the exchanges lately relating to TO & AIDA. FWIW, they have a longstanding and very PERSONAL dispute which has left them both feeling personally aggrieved by the other. That's bad enough. Some folks have openly chosen to interfere in the dispute going so far as to become partisan and disruptive in the process. BB has been one such. As you have seen he further complicated the matter by introducing private data into an already heated public exchange. This was NOT "helpful".

Unfortunately such disputes among former members of the church are far from rare. Many of the offshoots of scientology were begun precisely as a result of just such ongoing factionalism & flamewars. Those who have been around and observing things for a few decades know this to be true. It may, however, be something of a "rude shock" for more recent exiles from LRH Land

One thing all scientologists of all types, current and "ex", appear to be EXTREMELY good at is making others wrong.

The freezone itself is no different. Indeed, since the freezone arguably encompasses a greater range of viewpoints, everything from LRH Loyalists to liberally heretical scientologists who self-identify as freezoners, it has a far greater potential for disagreements. Offshoots afterall are generally narrower in terms of the scope of stated group interest. When these disagreements turn "personal", things can grow ugly. The recent events on FZorg are only one such example.


Mark A. Baker

 

[FoTi]

My 2 cents

Emma is entitled to 'rant' just like anyone else on this board.

It's Emma's board and she can do anything she wants with it.

Dex....if you have an ARCX, PTP or whatever with Emma or this board, how about just getting a session and running the charge off of it? See how you feel about all this after the session.

Scientologists are those people who are still in the CoS and follow KSW. Anyone who is no longer in the CoS and no longer follows KSW is a SQUIRREL! ALL who have left the CoS and no longer follow KSW and practice any method of helping others are SQUIRRELS. ALL FREEZONERS ARE SQUIRRELS and none can truthfully call themselves Scientologists anymore because they are no longer following standard tech per the CoS. There are no Scientologists outside the CoS. They might still believe in some of the tech and find some of it useful, but they are no longer Scientologists.

Some Freezoners can be a bit nuts....some can be very helpful (depends on what knowledge they have, what they are doing and who they are working with or for).

I am not a Freezoner nor do I belong to any other group of exes outside of ESMB.

I hope you don't leave, Dex. I enjoy your posts.

I admit I was a bit shocked at seeing the success stories being censored. I enjoyed reading them sometimes. I have enjoyed the freedom of speech on this board, both pros and cons.

Emma, I hope your stressful situation gets handled quickly. You have done a lot for many who have come to this board. You deserve a happy life.

 

[Feral]

My opinion of ESMB has been morphing just like everything else in my life.

When I got onto ESMB in summer of 2007, I felt that ESMB had much to offer in relevant knowledge, links, references and stories. This forum was an important source of information that ultimately led me to leave the CoS in the summer of 2009.

But to me ESMB's value dwindled - both because I caught up with the important information and because I felt the quality of the postings deteriorated. With my latest epiphanies (reflected in my latest blog posts), ESMB has become irrelevant to me.

I will make use of this post to thank the people who have served up actual and factual relevant information. I will mention none as I will undoubtedly leave a few important people out, but you know who you are. I will thank Emma for erecting the forum in the first place.

It is time to move on.

I will hang around for a few hours to read any direct responses, and then I will be gone. C U

You know I don't think that's what's going on.(bolded)

I think we change when we break free of the cult, we walk our separate ways and in time ESMB becomes redundant to us....or some of us.

Others become angry and find their voice on this board, this is regarded as pretty entheta by those who subscribe to Mr Hubbard's tech. But they might just be trying to separate themselves. Food for thought mate.

Your time is nigh move on Geir and natter no more!

 

[Gaijin]

Could you provide a link the specific Blog site so that others can share your epiphanies?

What comes up from a quick search is something from several months ago where you wrote, "I didn't think I'd see the day when ESMB would out-rabid WWP."

This should not come as a surprise. It frequently appears to be the case that, for example, ex-smokers are some of the most vociferous anti-smoking campaigners. Exes, of whatever sort, are frequently some of the most active 'antis' to be found anywhere. (I'm not saying that this necessarily makes them right, just that this appears to be the case.)

Gaijin

 

[Mark A. Baker]

My opinion of ESMB has been morphing just like everything else in my life.

When I got onto ESMB in summer of 2007, I felt that ESMB had much to offer in relevant knowledge, links, references and stories. This forum was an important source of information that ultimately led me to leave the CoS in the summer of 2009.

But to me ESMB's value dwindled - both because I caught up with the important information and because I felt the quality of the postings deteriorated. With my latest epiphanies (reflected in my latest blog posts), ESMB has become irrelevant to me.

I will make use of this post to thank the people who have served up actual and factual relevant information. I will mention none as I will undoubtedly leave a few important people out, but you know who you are. I will thank Emma for erecting the forum in the first place.

It is time to move on.

I will hang around for a few hours to read any direct responses, and then I will be gone. C U

Best of luck in all your endeavors, Geir.

I hope to see you around in a variety of venues.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Gaijin]

I am sorry Paul but I did not understand anything you said, my computer/internet knowledge is limited, I am still learning...
I will try to figure it out.
Thanks
Diana

What he means is, that you change what it says under your name from "Patron Meritorious" to whatever you like, provided that it is 25 characters long or less.
After you are logged in, there is a control panel option that you can select to add/change/edit information about your ESMB account.

Gaijin

 

[Gaijin]

... Every try to flog yourself with a cat-o-nine-tails? Pointless.

Zinj

Try it, you'll like it! Especially when you smear that Habanero extract over 'em,
first.

Gaijin

 

[nozeno]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs4Gj7JsET4

 

[Dulloldfart]

Try it, you'll like it! Especially when you smear that Habanero extract over 'em,
first.

Gaijin

It *sounds* horrible, but I remember reading various articles about how capcaisin markedly assists healing of cuts. That was literally as crude as pouring cayenne pepper into a jagged open wound (it was supposedly painless, not like pouring in salt) and it stopped the bleeding and healed well with no scar. Personally, I've never been willing to try it out, but it was an interesting anecdote or two. I did try taking a tablespoon or two of cayenne in water when I had a heart attack back in 2000 after about six hours of sitting down with a crushing feeling in the chest wondering if it was really a heart attack. The pain went away shortly afterwards. I threw up an hour later, but that was really a very minor inconvenience compared to the other!

Paul

 

[Veda]

This should not come as a surprise. It frequently appears to be the case that, for example, ex-smokers are some of the most vociferous anti-smoking campaigners. Exes, of whatever sort, are frequently some of the most active 'antis' to be found anywhere. (I'm not saying that this necessarily makes them right, just that this appears to be the case.)

Gaijin

I wasn't saying I agreed with Geir's appraisal of ESMB as "rabid." I was just noting it, and wondering if that's one of the epiphanies he was referencing.

The prevalent view amongst Scientology Zoners&Scientology Independents is that Ex Scientologists are Ex Scientologists because they have unhandled "by-passed charge" from their experiences with misapplied Scientology. It's believed that once this "by-passed charge" has been addressed and handled in session, the Ex will once again become a Scientologist.

Oddly enough, this same "by-passed charge" handling doesn't seem to work too well on folks such as Dex, and one might expect that he'd simply have a session to handle his recent upset at ESMB, and return shiny, glowing, and at cause.

We're waiting Dex. Show us how Scientology works.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

And have to put up with all you stupid fuckers?

No way.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

A couple of points of clarification, Emma. Aida is not "senior personnel in your Freezone". She IS a well respected person and a professional auditor but there is no "freezone hierarchy" and Aida is about as independent as they come.

I know Aida and enjoy her friendship. She can be very "temperamental", possibly due in part to her latin cultural origins. But I've always found her to be highly intelligent and quite responsive to reason, although something of a "tigeress" when she feels either her family or herself are under attack. She happens to feel that she has been under attack most egregiously and most unfairly for some time now, both by TO and those who would use her dispute with TO against her.

I happen to share your view of the idiocy of the exchanges lately relating to TO & AIDA. FWIW, they have a longstanding and very PERSONAL dispute which has left them both feeling personally aggrieved by the other. That's bad enough. Some folks have openly chosen to interfere in the dispute going so far as to become partisan and disruptive in the process. BB has been one such. As you have seen he further complicated the matter by introducing private data into an already heated public exchange. This was NOT "helpful".

Unfortunately such disputes among former members of the church are far from rare. Many of the offshoots of scientology were begun precisely as a result of just such ongoing factionalism & flamewars. Those who have been around and observing things for a few decades know this to be true. It may, however, be something of a "rude shock" for more recent exiles from LRH Land

One thing all scientologists of all types, current and "ex", appear to be EXTREMELY good at is making others wrong.

The freezone itself is no different. Indeed, since the freezone arguably encompasses a greater range of viewpoints, everything from LRH Loyalists to liberally heretical scientologists who self-identify as freezoners, it has a far greater potential for disagreements. Offshoots afterall are generally narrower in terms of the scope of stated group interest. When these disagreements turn "personal", things can grow ugly. The recent events on FZorg are only one such example.


Mark A. Baker

One of my posts on the thread in question was revised by one of the mods to take a name out. It wasn't the person whose nick appeared in the thread-it was another woman, someone who had herself posted her real name on a.r.s. I think maybe the mods thought it was the other chick? Dunno.

But it is VERY hard to sit by when one is slammed and slandered repeatedly and not want to do something. It's something I've not done (outing, I mean) and a temptation that I myself have faced. I'm going to come out and say it. There's a person who has been similarly rough on me for years. I've been slandered by this person on three forums. They think they're anonymous. They think I don't know who they are. (it's one person but I've no wish to even disclose the gender). But I know exactly who that person is. I know the person's first name. I know the person's last name. I know where the person lives. I know what the person does for a living. I didn't even do an investigation, either. Nor did I out the person. But was I tempted when page after page was written by this person about who I am and what I do? Hell, yeah. My sympathies are with Diana.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Emma is entitled to 'rant' just like anyone else on this board.

It's Emma's board and she can do anything she wants with it.

Dex....if you have an ARCX, PTP or whatever with Emma or this board, how about just getting a session and running the charge off of it? See how you feel about all this after the session.

Scientologists are those people who are still in the CoS and follow KSW. Anyone who is no longer in the CoS and no longer follows KSW is a SQUIRREL! ALL who have left the CoS and no longer follow KSW and practice any method of helping others are SQUIRRELS. ALL FREEZONERS ARE SQUIRRELS and none can truthfully call themselves Scientologists anymore because they are no longer following standard tech per the CoS. There are no Scientologists outside the CoS. They might still believe in some of the tech and find some of it useful, but they are no longer Scientologists.

Some Freezoners can be a bit nuts....some can be very helpful (depends on what knowledge they have, what they are doing and who they are working with or for).

I am not a Freezoner nor do I belong to any other group of exes outside of ESMB.

I hope you don't leave, Dex. I enjoy your posts.

I admit I was a bit shocked at seeing the success stories being censored. I enjoyed reading them sometimes. I have enjoyed the freedom of speech on this board, both pros and cons.

Emma, I hope your stressful situation gets handled quickly. You have done a lot for many who have come to this board. You deserve a happy life.

Why does everything have to be handled with/by a session? Isn't that something FZers and Indies are criticized for?

If Ems is entitled to a rant, so is Dex.

 

[dianaclass8]

This is exactly what is going on and it blew out of proportion to the point of ridiculousness...

I want to make clear, that despite all the flame wars between TO and me my comm lines are and have always been opened to her and to anyone else for that matter.

Diana

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs4Gj7JsET4