I have a new opinion about ESMB

[dianaclass8]

What he means is, that you change what it says under your name from "Patron Meritorious" to whatever you like, provided that it is 25 characters long or less.
After you are logged in, there is a control panel option that you can select to add/change/edit information about your ESMB account.

Gaijin

Thank you Gaijin, maybe I should change to "I like a burrito" like my friend Paul suggested...LOL!

 

[GreyWolf]

Please to remember that this board is the EX Scientolgist Message Board. Also remember that Em has recently been attacked by Scn.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Please to remember that this board is the EX Scientolgist Message Board. Also remember that Em has recently been attacked by Scn.

Ems wasn't attacked by Freezoners. She was attacked by CofS. I believe that her distaste for the FZ was triggered by seeing the feet of clay occasionally exhibited by those professing same. That's not a poke at her, either. It's a pretty valid reason. It's like seeing Kirstie Alley get fat all the time or have meltdowns and wonder WTF the OT levels ever did for her, eh?

And, actually, back in the day, Ems did invite some indies and FZers here, even going so far as to create some categories relating to those subjects. She didn't take those categories down, either. Just the success story one. Again, that's not a poke or a swipe, it's a statement of fact and I'm not at all convinced that this was wrong or a bad idea.

 

[dianaclass8]

Mark, thank you for speaking on my behalf <3. The reason I left the FZ is because of all the gossip that goes there so I cannot even be considered part of the Freezone. I haven't had anything to do with the FZ.Org since before BB brought the circus to his list. I have no hierarchy there and never had. I have no ranks anywhere really.

I had some silly attacks by TO and other terminals which I ignored because really at the end of the day were not of magnitud to give them the importance they did not have. But one day I decided it was time to put a stop to it all. Simple.

Apparently BB likes to meddle with people's personal and professional business and he assigns himself the post of Qual where he is neither needed or wanted and he makes things in my practice appear in a way they are NOT. That is ridiculous in his part and whoever else was involved in his game.

I cannot imagine outside of FZ.Org having a friend coming and telling you how to run your shoe store or your jewelry business and if you don't do as he says he gets himself the task of teaming up with others to 'correct' your outnesses. Not content with that he apparently involved Emma, I have no idea what he said because I haven't read his list in ages; but it was stupid and I can't blame her for calling Freezoners names.

Aida aka Diana

A couple of points of clarification, Emma. Aida is not "senior personnel in your Freezone". She IS a well respected person and a professional auditor but there is no "freezone hierarchy" and Aida is about as independent as they come.

I know Aida and enjoy her friendship. She can be very "temperamental", possibly due in part to her latin cultural origins. But I've always found her to be highly intelligent and quite responsive to reason, although something of a "tigeress" when she feels either her family or herself are under attack. She happens to feel that she has been under attack most egregiously and most unfairly for some time now, both by TO and those who would use her dispute with TO against her.

I happen to share your view of the idiocy of the exchanges lately relating to TO & AIDA. FWIW, they have a longstanding and very PERSONAL dispute which has left them both feeling personally aggrieved by the other. That's bad enough. Some folks have openly chosen to interfere in the dispute going so far as to become partisan and disruptive in the process. BB has been one such. As you have seen he further complicated the matter by introducing private data into an already heated public exchange. This was NOT "helpful".

Unfortunately such disputes among former members of the church are far from rare. Many of the offshoots of scientology were begun precisely as a result of just such ongoing factionalism & flamewars. Those who have been around and observing things for a few decades know this to be true. It may, however, be something of a "rude shock" for more recent exiles from LRH Land

One thing all scientologists of all types, current and "ex", appear to be EXTREMELY good at is making others wrong.

The freezone itself is no different. Indeed, since the freezone arguably encompasses a greater range of viewpoints, everything from LRH Loyalists to liberally heretical scientologists who self-identify as freezoners, it has a far greater potential for disagreements. Offshoots afterall are generally narrower in terms of the scope of stated group interest. When these disagreements turn "personal", things can grow ugly. The recent events on FZorg are only one such example.


Mark A. Baker

 

[SomeGuy]

Why does everything have to be handled with/by a session? Isn't that something FZers and Indies are criticized for?

If Ems is entitled to a rant, so is Dex.

He is, I think the same problem you have with Emma's rant occurs with Dexters.

It's hard to get personal about it. Dexters post should be relabled "I have a new opinion about emma" and Emmas post should be "I have a new opinion about terril (or what ever freezoner pissed in her cheerios)" That way there is no colateral damage.

You even posted a thread about it about being a [me]-ologist.

Personally, as a never have been scientologists, seeing the freezone / cos success stories are invaluable in keeping any one with an IQ above room temperature away from the scientology cult. I think Alanzo wrote that scientology worst enemy is actually scientology. When you see applied as intended reasonable people, like yourself, come to the conclusion that it's pretty much worthless.

So in an effort to not make it personal, I think emma and dex do a diservice to each other. Chances are a phone call or a PM would have settled the difference. Instead you now have PR efforts and camps setting up for war all over perceived slights.

I'm not sure why people (you / terril) who always want to be peace bringers keep stirring the pot with weird none posts. Granted I have only a small partial view into what set emma off but she is entitled to her opinion. I actually agree that any one who has read this forum and all the associated issues with scientology and thinks hubbard insanity is a worth while subject must have a mental deficiency. You wouldn't go on a 5 page rant about some dude on the internet calling freezoners stupid, yet emma has to kowtow to unknown sensibilities when expressing her opinion. Seems like a double standard.

 

[dianaclass8]

One of my posts on the thread in question was revised by one of the mods to take a name out. It wasn't the person whose nick appeared in the thread-it was another woman, someone who had herself posted her real name on a.r.s. I think maybe the mods thought it was the other chick? Dunno.

But it is VERY hard to sit by when one is slammed and slandered repeatedly and not want to do something. It's something I've not done (outing, I mean) and a temptation that I myself have faced. I'm going to come out and say it. There's a person who has been similarly rough on me for years. I've been slandered by this person on three forums. They think they're anonymous. They think I don't know who they are. (it's one person but I've no wish to even disclose the gender). But I know exactly who that person is. I know the person's first name. I know the person's last name. I know where the person lives. I know what the person does for a living. I didn't even do an investigation, either. Nor did I out the person. But was I tempted when page after page was written by this person about who I am and what I do? Hell, yeah. My sympathies are with Diana.

Thank you Claire.

Diana

 

[MrNobody]

Hey guys, you know what? I find this whole "Dex" scenario amusing. Extremely amusing. Outright hilarious. Here's why:

Everybody who thinks she/he/it can't be occasionally stupid, IS stupid. Very stupid. Everybody has had, has, and will have their stupid moments every now and then. That's just how it is, dammit. That's how we learn. All of us. Not realizing this ist just... Well, I said that already.

"Booohoo, I've been associated with the word <sniff...> 'stupid'! Baawww. Now I have no other choice than to grab my crappy toys and leave this place forever. "

Geeze, that's the reaction of a two-year-old, not one of a grown-up person. Especially not for a person, who claims to have achieved some sort of merits in his life. Class V Auditor and all that Jazz, eh? That's some training and life experience you showed there, Dex. Seriously, if you were only 10 % of the person you think you are, THIS would never have happened.

Thanks for the entertainment.

Honestly,

MrN

 

[OTBT]

Thank you Gaijin, maybe I should change to "I like a burrito" like my friend Paul suggested...LOL!

There is a character limit, and a word filter. The word filter won't let you swear.

The word filter can be partially bypassed. My original attempt was automatically changed to "****ing stupid ex-scilon", so I edited it to to just 1 "*"

.

 

[Emma]

Sometimes people think that Emma speaks for ESMB.

Unfortunately this is true (that people think that). But I don't. I speak for myself. For years I didn't. I shut up and remained neutral and I think that was the right thing to do at the time.

But now I will say what I think and people will just have to learn that my opinion is not a "board" opinion because its impossible for a board to have an opinion anyway.

Just one last thought on the FZ success stories forum being closed.

Why should the FZ have their own success stories forum when TIR, Idenics, Knowledgism etc do not?

People pay money each year to have this forum ad free. This is so we don't have to put up with Google ads etc. So why have I let the FZ have cart blanche on free advertising for 4 years? I dunno. I think I need my head read.

 

[degraded being]

My opinion of ESMB has been morphing just like everything else in my life.

When I got onto ESMB in summer of 2007, I felt that ESMB had much to offer in relevant knowledge, links, references and stories. This forum was an important source of information that ultimately led me to leave the CoS in the summer of 2009.

But to me ESMB's value dwindled - both because I caught up with the important information and because I felt the quality of the postings deteriorated. With my latest epiphanies (reflected in my latest blog posts), ESMB has become irrelevant to me.

I will make use of this post to thank the people who have served up actual and factual relevant information. I will mention none as I will undoubtedly leave a few important people out, but you know who you are. I will thank Emma for erecting the forum in the first place.

It is time to move on.

I will hang around for a few hours to read any direct responses, and then I will be gone. C U

Same old same old......haughty exit. We'll see you when you come back for your next one.

 

[Terril park]

You've made the point better than I did.

Dex, I know you took this very personally and I'm sorry you are upset. I've said to you in the past that out of anyone who still audits Scientology tech I respect you the most. This is still true.

I'm a hot head basically. I knew that if I posted what I posted, when I posted it, I'd most likely piss a lot of people off but at the time I didn't care. I was just so angry and frustrated at what I've seen recently that I had to say something or I was gunna explode. My stress levels are at an all time high right now and I really should take a weeks vacation somewhere.

If I could write my post all over again (which I won't because I don't believe in revisionism) I think I'd say something a bit less polarizing and calmer, but my beliefs would be the same.

I TRULY don't understand how someone like yourself, who openly states that you take bits & pieces of the tech, plus added bits from elsewhere, who doesn't do the Hubbard abuses can call yourself a Scientologist. I also don't understand how you (and others in that group) can continue to allow the most outrageous bullshit to be carried on whilst holding yourselves up to some unachievable (Scn bullshit) standards.

I believe you are just like me. You see some stuff in Scientology that you think works. Well hold on to your hat, coz so do I. I actually like some bits & pieces of Scientology (most likely the bits Hubbard stole but nevertheless my introduction to them was through Scientology). I was a trained Class V auditor in Scientology and also a trained Sup. I was on staff for 8 years and I was pretty good at auditing and suping. I knew my stuff. But I would never hang a Scn FZ shingle up and audit because what I'd be auditing and how I do it could not be called Scientology and I wouldn't want the label anyway.

Per Hubbard himself, a Scientologist is a KSW adherent. If you are not this then don't call yourself one (IMHO).

The reason I got so upset wasn't really because of what Terril wrote about my husband on his yahoo list. I was because I saw so much natter and blame & make wrong in just a page of posts that i was flabbergasted. Here I was on a yahoo list of people who claim to be Scientologists and I didn't see ANY Scientology being used. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing but it did make me mad.

I admit my initial reaction was "These guys are no better because they've left Scientology or because they are still in Scientology, yet we get constant "success stories" and Pollyanna type reviews coming out of the FZ that it all looked to me like a pack of PR lies".

On my board in the last week I've seen covert operations to "out" a woman (twice) by senior personal in your Freezone. The woman outed (also a senoir member of your freezone) has been acting crazy and telling lies about me on someone else's blog to garner sympathy. Then I see all manner of personal & private information being posted about me and others that was likely unethical and sensitive on the Yahoo list and I think "Fuck, these folk are insane".

But what it really is, is that you aren't insane, you are JUST LIKE EVERYBODY else. Some of you are smart & kind and ethical and some of you are mean & vindictive and batshit crazy, but if you all call yourselves FZ Scientologists then you are all coming under the one umbrella and it gives the impression that the whole group is crazy in times like these.

This has probably come across as garbled and jumbled but I'm not about to rewrite it. I hope I've communicated what I wanted to say. If not I'll try again in another post.

I'm a coolhead most of the time.

Totally understand your upset. You came at a bad time.

it may be worth noting that non of this would have happened if Ken Urquhart and myself were not trying to up another auditors skills.
Such a crime!

In COS one does what is ordered. In the FZ, trying to correct someone is much harder. I try. You have experienced some of what I go though for doing this.

Re someone telling lies about you. I'm happy to help correct this despite the implication its a good friend of mine. Please mail me privately. You're on my forum and know how to contact me.

love
bb

 

[dianaclass8]

There is a character limit, and a word filter. The word filter won't let you swear.

The word filter can be partially bypassed. My original attempt was automatically changed to "****ing stupid ex-scilon", so I edited it to to just 1 "*"

.

I see...well, I am happy so far with the character limit because as I said before; with 25 characters alone I have already gotten myself into plenty of trouble...LOL

 

[nexus100]

I'm a coolhead most of the time.

Totally understand your upset. You came at a bad time.

it may be worth noting that non of this would have happened if Ken Urquhart and myself were not trying to up another auditors skills.
Such a crime!

In COS one does what is ordered. In the FZ, trying to correct someone is much harder. I try. You have experienced some of what I go though for doing this.

Re someone telling lies about you. I'm happy to help correct this despite the implication its a good friend of mine. Please mail me privately. You're on my forum and know how to contact me.

love
bb

ARC does not exist as practiced in the COS, at least. Attempts to install it read kinda like scratching fingernails across a literary chalkboard. Understand, don't try to fix everything. But then could one practice Hubbardism? Hm.

 

[dianaclass8]

BB, what auditor or C/S training do you have? Gossip is what you and Ken got involved in, which by the way he already publicly apologized for. For he and you are not part of anybody's Qual department except in your minds.

You remind me of the fruit vendor women at the public market in my hometown.

Diana

Totally understand your upset. You came at a bad time.

it may be worth noting that non of this would have happened if Ken Urquhart and myself were not trying to up another auditors skills.
Such a crime!

In COS one does what is ordered. In the FZ, trying to correct someone is much harder. I try. You have experienced some of what I go though for doing this.

love
bb

 

[nozeno]

This is exactly what is going on and it blew out of proportion to the point of ridiculousness...

I want to make clear, that despite all the flame wars between TO and me my comm lines are and have always been opened to her and to anyone else for that matter.

Diana

Perceptive, ain't I?

 

[dianaclass8]

Perceptive, ain't I?

Yes! it all boils down to what the video says...LOL!

 

[Alanzo]

Unfortunately this is true (that people think that). But I don't. I speak for myself. For years I didn't. I shut up and remained neutral and I think that was the right thing to do at the time.

But now I will say what I think and people will just have to learn that my opinion is not a "board" opinion because its impossible for a board to have an opinion anyway.

Just one last thought on the FZ success stories forum being closed.

Why should the FZ have their own success stories forum when TIR, Idenics, Knowledgism etc do not?

People pay money each year to have this forum ad free. This is so we don't have to put up with Google ads etc. So why have I let the FZ have cart blanche on free advertising for 4 years? I dunno. I think I need my head read.

It's your decision to make, not mine.

You should be able to speak your mind, and do what you want on your own board.

I am backing out of this, and have no more to say about it.

Because that *is* what I think.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

If Ems is entitled to a rant, so is Dex.

As I understand it Dex's concern is that Em's rant might have constituted some sort of new esmb "official position" with regard the freezone. As he is a fine auditor and takes his craft seriously, I believe he was afraid that his continued presence here on esmb might be seen as having an adverse impact upon his own personal integrity.

Since that is not what has actually transpired, I personally have every hope that Dexter will continue to remain a valuable & funny part of the esmb whole. He's a genuinely nice guy and his absence would be a HUGE loss for esmb.

Chock it up to one more unintended and unfortunate side effect of a truly stupid flamewar among former members of the Co$. With luck & patience this one won't lead to the creation of further unfortunate side effects.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Terril park]

Yet!
You got upset with "fucking stupid" words. Unlike Terril, who (as it turned out) had no problems with his personal thread closed for posting and can deal with Ex-Scn on their terms.

Jeez put your brain into circuit. The List owner just said all who followed his religion are stupid nut cases. Totally valid reason for leaving and if it was Islam you'd have been blown up by now!

Telling everyone here that you are leaving ESMB (because ESMB "invalidates" your and your close folks views) is kinda "Ser-Fac" (as described by Hubbard. Not that I believe in them, or want to invalidate you, but so it's undestood)

What!!!!!! Did or did not list owner invalidate his belief and profession?

Dexter,
I'd like you to stay here.
You have to have guts!
You have to have balls!

But leaving this place called ESMB will make you a loser. Not because of what people think of you, but because of what you will think of yourself.

Nonsense. He has the right to decide where he goes and communicates.
He also has the right to state his opinion re leaving.

Thats straight SCN. And liberty.

ESMB is a challenge. Serious challenge.
Persist, and you will get to Total Freedom.

I too wish Dexter would remain. Love the guy.

Have very similar views.

The loss of him and Mockingbird 6, and possibly Dex's wife Mfreet
is not good for ESMB.

However I remain. You only get rid of me with massive Marcabian soldier
escorts heavily armed. With lots of luck also !

 

[The Great Zorg]

Ah well...

Dex and Isene want to blow? Oh well... that's prolly going to happen to a lot of us, sooner or later. :confused2:

I had mixed feelings about this board in the last few months but I have reconsidered it's effect on me. A few recent outstanding posts have shown me that the members here are here for many, many reasons. It has also taken me some time to subjectively sort out who's who, and I think that there a few people here who are grounded and becoming more so each passing day. Their insight are priceless to me.

I'm glad I didn't leave. I will someday, when I have developed enough and sorted out enough scilon crap to be able to have a chance at a normal, real life, one without constantly thinking in clamtalk or clamthink. I have no idea when that day will be. Dex and Isene have seen their's, at the moment. Everything changes, Nothing remains static. Nothing in the universe.

This board can be a real roller coaster for some. A few have been thrown off. A dew have jumped off mid-ride. Some are going to get off when the current ride is over. Others may never leave the roller coaster. Some need it. A few have to have it. Others are just watching the ride and the people on it from close or afar, while still others may be conspiring to destroy the ride along with everyone on it to prove that their roller coaster is the only one to ride, despite all of the costs of that ride, the inability to easily get off of it and the constant chanting about how great a ride it really is. :confused2:

What a buzz.

If you never return Dex and Isene, then have a good one: find your proper ride and enjoy it. Best of luck.