I just woke up
- Thread starter Hello
- Start date
, but I mean the same as those 3 before 
Mark A. Baker
Sponsor
Agreed. Physical violence should NEVER be tolerated, ESPECIALLY when targeted against a minor.
The only part of the story that seems unbelivable is that an AUDITOR for public pcs was the one to strike Hello. This of course stems from the fundamental importance in which the auditor/pc relationship is held by scientologists. Even those among us who are open critics of auditing are shocked.
What is in its own way equally sad is that it is really quite easy for most of us to imagine a similar occurrence with an "Ethics Officer" as the offender. It comes with the Co$ history.
Mark A. Baker
Twin A
Patron with Honors
I know you are scared, and especially when you are 17, the police can be intimidating too... If that one staff member hit you, then he does, has and will hit and push around other people. I would think of you as really brave if you did make a police report and I would be proud of you... but I can also understand why you would not want to.
I have some experience with this. I've was hit by non Scientologists when I was a kid. It seems to be particular just to plain ignorant and crude and unlawful people. Of course, I always "deserved it" because I was being a "bad kid." But in reality, there are other more effective and humane methods of discipline!
I had hoped to escape this kind of behavior when I joined this supposedly lofty and better place called The Church of Scientology, only to later find some long term Scientology staff/Sea Org staff thinking it was perfectly OK to tackle me and beat me up.
I have some kind of explanation for it, how I kind of figured out why MAYBE they thought this was OK, just based on what I was taught inside Scientology:
One of the guys, the one that smashed my hand down on a table and shoved me into some book cases brusing my ribs, said that I was "being 'the bank'" and he somehow felt that violence was how to treat someone like that!
I, too mistakenly thought that when I was on Scientology staff, it was OK to push around other staff if they had been "1.1" on the tone scale, ie dishonest with me. Because just half a notch above that was 2.0 which is antagonism. So somehow, screaming and yelling at someone was doing them a favor. Sometimes we'd get into pushing and shoving too. All I had to do was think, "Oh this person wasn't honest, was just kind of sly, and so I have some kind of right to put them in their place." But I have since learned, since being out of Scientology and the Sea Organization, that pushing and hitting people is actually illegal. Even screaming slanderous things at them in public could be illegal too. I don't really know why others have gotten into hitting people, such as DM -- but I can ASSUME that at some point, the object of the hitting has somehow gotten judged as a "1.1" or deserving of "getting their ethics in" using some form of physical "communication." Oh... that's another thing, a hit or a slap is considered a "communication" in Scientology. Very few other religious groups think of it that way. If you look at their definition of communication and also at the films, one of the films -- "The Cycle of Communication" shows a guy getting shot with a bullet which was apparently a "communication" with "too high of a velocity"
You could try to get into the head of that LV staff member and think maybe:
Well, OK, fine, you kind of didn't express your disagreement with being told NOT to go into a room and so you were somehow being "sly" --- I could see maybe that guy would have thought that, that you were being sneaking somehow and underhanded so he had some right to go into 2.0 antagonism towards you to do you a favor. To get up from being "covert" and help you to overcome your "reactive mind" impulse. Again, I want to tell you that he HAD NO RIGHT to do that. And even if he was somehow interpreting his "great" Scientology tone scale teachings like that somehow, he was wrong too. Unless you are in jail and a criminal and you have had your rights taken away from you legally --- NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO HIT YOU.
Maybe somehow you didn't acknowledge him properly when he reprimanded you. Oh, that will set off any long term Scientologists. They may have read some bulletin about how "psychos" purposefully don't acknowlege others or how bad TRs was a sign of evil...
Even if you did have "evil intent" and had wondered in there to steal something or you went in there to purposefully cause trouble, or you were purposefully not acknowledging well and in an unapologetic mood -- THE GUY STILL HAD NO RIGHT TO HIT YOU!!! The door was open,the place was being used for business/counselling ---you were not trespassing and you were a minor.
I was physically abused by long term Sea Org (the 'elite' of Scientology staff) staff members. If I had to do it over again, I would have instantly gone to the police that day I'd gotten my hand broken AND I would have reported the two other times that guys literally tackled me before that and I would have pressed charges on these guys. The only reason I didn't is because I didn't really know that I COULD. I didn't know that I had any rights and I was still mind bended into thinking that I needed the damn grade chart. I also thought it was not a big deal, just those guys and me. But it is a big deal, because we were on Scientology property. Other Scientologists were around condoning the behavior, it's supported by tax dollars. They get tax exempt status because they are supposed to be CHARITABLE towards others. They don't have to pay property taxes, so all their neighbors cover the cost of their trash collection, police protection, etc. The city they are in is supporting them. They have to behave like a religion, not like a bunch of thugs.It wasn't just about those guys, it was about Scientology.
Another comment too, not that it particularly fits, but I just thought it was good info ---
I've also been shot at by a Soboba Indian. He didn't even know I was there, he heard his dog barking and he fired a gun in that general direction thinking I was a mountain lion perhaps that had come on the property and disturbed his dog. But I had to crawl through fences and past no trespassing signs to put myself into that position. I woudln't report him for accidentally shooting at me not knowing I was there. I didn't exactly knock on his door first before I went onto his private land. He had a right to be firing that gun on his own property, I would have really looked stupid if I complained about that. Now, if his property had a "Church of Scientology Sign, everyone is welcome" and he shot at me... then I would file a police report!!!! Even if it was by accident.
That guy had no right to hit you! It was not HIS property, it's a public place that was open for business if they are selling counselling there.
My guess is that guy has something to hide and that's why he got so upset. That's my guess and my opinion.
You may have gone into a room that had some "secret confidential OT stuff" and the reason the guy hit you was because he screwed up too. He left something confid in the room with the door open which if someone inside of the church found out that you wondered in, that would get HIM in big big trouble. He'd have to apply lower conditions in Scientololgy. So the guy was looking at whether he wanted to be in big trouble for "out security" with his superiors in the C of S or whether he wanted to risk getting a police report on him for intimidating you and scaring you to get out of that room before someone else noticed you walked in. He figures your just a kid, your friends are Scientologists, you'll be a push over and not report the hitting to the police. That's just kind of a guess, I mean it might not have even been what happened, but I'm just kind of thinking that the reason you are confused is that the whole thing made "no sense" to you and so I'm just trying to help you wrap you wits around it.
OK... well all that said... I can also totally understand why you would not want to make a big deal out of this and not report it. Because, yeh, that Scientologists could and probably will try to discredit you. They'll accuse you of being some loser pot smoking kid or whatever they can imagine to say in their defense and that you are making it all up. Your Scientology friends will stop speaking to you and maybe call you a coward rat fink nark or whatever.
You'd have to get some character witnesses to say that you don't make shit up. You might have to dig out all the reports, get out the more recent interviews on Glosslip radio of myself, Jeff Hawkins and Mark headley saying how we witness the most senior Scientology staff member beating other staff--- just to show that it DOES happen. You'll have all your Scientology friends stop speaking to you. It would be a major hassles in your life. All you could do is just talk about it on a message board like this and try to get over it that way, which is kind of how I went, how we all went, only being able to talk about it way after the fact.
You are in the position, of this having just happened, to actually make a big difference. You could actually pull out and just be a hero and put that guy in his place and get him to realize that just because he is Scientologists, DOES NOT GIVE HIM MORE RIGHTS THAN YOU. HE IS NOT BETTER THAN YOU ARE just because he is in Scientology trying to "help" people and "save the world"
I have a friend in Las Vegas who would totally go out of his way to help go with you to the police. He is a big guy, he might even know who hit you. Just PM me if you would like to to that, get an escort over there and some good advice on how to stand up to any intimidation or harassment from other Scientologists.
I'd be proud of you if you did it. But also, like I said earlier, I would understand if you didn't want to too. It's not easy.
Wish you the best, please let me know if I can be of anymore help and if you'd like my friends help out there in Vegas.
Maureen
I have some experience with this. I've was hit by non Scientologists when I was a kid. It seems to be particular just to plain ignorant and crude and unlawful people. Of course, I always "deserved it" because I was being a "bad kid." But in reality, there are other more effective and humane methods of discipline!
I had hoped to escape this kind of behavior when I joined this supposedly lofty and better place called The Church of Scientology, only to later find some long term Scientology staff/Sea Org staff thinking it was perfectly OK to tackle me and beat me up.
I have some kind of explanation for it, how I kind of figured out why MAYBE they thought this was OK, just based on what I was taught inside Scientology:
One of the guys, the one that smashed my hand down on a table and shoved me into some book cases brusing my ribs, said that I was "being 'the bank'" and he somehow felt that violence was how to treat someone like that!
I, too mistakenly thought that when I was on Scientology staff, it was OK to push around other staff if they had been "1.1" on the tone scale, ie dishonest with me. Because just half a notch above that was 2.0 which is antagonism. So somehow, screaming and yelling at someone was doing them a favor. Sometimes we'd get into pushing and shoving too. All I had to do was think, "Oh this person wasn't honest, was just kind of sly, and so I have some kind of right to put them in their place." But I have since learned, since being out of Scientology and the Sea Organization, that pushing and hitting people is actually illegal. Even screaming slanderous things at them in public could be illegal too. I don't really know why others have gotten into hitting people, such as DM -- but I can ASSUME that at some point, the object of the hitting has somehow gotten judged as a "1.1" or deserving of "getting their ethics in" using some form of physical "communication." Oh... that's another thing, a hit or a slap is considered a "communication" in Scientology. Very few other religious groups think of it that way. If you look at their definition of communication and also at the films, one of the films -- "The Cycle of Communication" shows a guy getting shot with a bullet which was apparently a "communication" with "too high of a velocity"
You could try to get into the head of that LV staff member and think maybe:
Well, OK, fine, you kind of didn't express your disagreement with being told NOT to go into a room and so you were somehow being "sly" --- I could see maybe that guy would have thought that, that you were being sneaking somehow and underhanded so he had some right to go into 2.0 antagonism towards you to do you a favor. To get up from being "covert" and help you to overcome your "reactive mind" impulse. Again, I want to tell you that he HAD NO RIGHT to do that. And even if he was somehow interpreting his "great" Scientology tone scale teachings like that somehow, he was wrong too. Unless you are in jail and a criminal and you have had your rights taken away from you legally --- NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO HIT YOU.
Maybe somehow you didn't acknowledge him properly when he reprimanded you. Oh, that will set off any long term Scientologists. They may have read some bulletin about how "psychos" purposefully don't acknowlege others or how bad TRs was a sign of evil...
Even if you did have "evil intent" and had wondered in there to steal something or you went in there to purposefully cause trouble, or you were purposefully not acknowledging well and in an unapologetic mood -- THE GUY STILL HAD NO RIGHT TO HIT YOU!!! The door was open,the place was being used for business/counselling ---you were not trespassing and you were a minor.
I was physically abused by long term Sea Org (the 'elite' of Scientology staff) staff members. If I had to do it over again, I would have instantly gone to the police that day I'd gotten my hand broken AND I would have reported the two other times that guys literally tackled me before that and I would have pressed charges on these guys. The only reason I didn't is because I didn't really know that I COULD. I didn't know that I had any rights and I was still mind bended into thinking that I needed the damn grade chart. I also thought it was not a big deal, just those guys and me. But it is a big deal, because we were on Scientology property. Other Scientologists were around condoning the behavior, it's supported by tax dollars. They get tax exempt status because they are supposed to be CHARITABLE towards others. They don't have to pay property taxes, so all their neighbors cover the cost of their trash collection, police protection, etc. The city they are in is supporting them. They have to behave like a religion, not like a bunch of thugs.It wasn't just about those guys, it was about Scientology.
Another comment too, not that it particularly fits, but I just thought it was good info ---
I've also been shot at by a Soboba Indian. He didn't even know I was there, he heard his dog barking and he fired a gun in that general direction thinking I was a mountain lion perhaps that had come on the property and disturbed his dog. But I had to crawl through fences and past no trespassing signs to put myself into that position. I woudln't report him for accidentally shooting at me not knowing I was there. I didn't exactly knock on his door first before I went onto his private land. He had a right to be firing that gun on his own property, I would have really looked stupid if I complained about that. Now, if his property had a "Church of Scientology Sign, everyone is welcome" and he shot at me... then I would file a police report!!!! Even if it was by accident.
That guy had no right to hit you! It was not HIS property, it's a public place that was open for business if they are selling counselling there.
My guess is that guy has something to hide and that's why he got so upset. That's my guess and my opinion.
You may have gone into a room that had some "secret confidential OT stuff" and the reason the guy hit you was because he screwed up too. He left something confid in the room with the door open which if someone inside of the church found out that you wondered in, that would get HIM in big big trouble. He'd have to apply lower conditions in Scientololgy. So the guy was looking at whether he wanted to be in big trouble for "out security" with his superiors in the C of S or whether he wanted to risk getting a police report on him for intimidating you and scaring you to get out of that room before someone else noticed you walked in. He figures your just a kid, your friends are Scientologists, you'll be a push over and not report the hitting to the police. That's just kind of a guess, I mean it might not have even been what happened, but I'm just kind of thinking that the reason you are confused is that the whole thing made "no sense" to you and so I'm just trying to help you wrap you wits around it.
OK... well all that said... I can also totally understand why you would not want to make a big deal out of this and not report it. Because, yeh, that Scientologists could and probably will try to discredit you. They'll accuse you of being some loser pot smoking kid or whatever they can imagine to say in their defense and that you are making it all up. Your Scientology friends will stop speaking to you and maybe call you a coward rat fink nark or whatever.
You'd have to get some character witnesses to say that you don't make shit up. You might have to dig out all the reports, get out the more recent interviews on Glosslip radio of myself, Jeff Hawkins and Mark headley saying how we witness the most senior Scientology staff member beating other staff--- just to show that it DOES happen. You'll have all your Scientology friends stop speaking to you. It would be a major hassles in your life. All you could do is just talk about it on a message board like this and try to get over it that way, which is kind of how I went, how we all went, only being able to talk about it way after the fact.
You are in the position, of this having just happened, to actually make a big difference. You could actually pull out and just be a hero and put that guy in his place and get him to realize that just because he is Scientologists, DOES NOT GIVE HIM MORE RIGHTS THAN YOU. HE IS NOT BETTER THAN YOU ARE just because he is in Scientology trying to "help" people and "save the world"
I have a friend in Las Vegas who would totally go out of his way to help go with you to the police. He is a big guy, he might even know who hit you. Just PM me if you would like to to that, get an escort over there and some good advice on how to stand up to any intimidation or harassment from other Scientologists.
I'd be proud of you if you did it. But also, like I said earlier, I would understand if you didn't want to too. It's not easy.
Wish you the best, please let me know if I can be of anymore help and if you'd like my friends help out there in Vegas.
Maureen
Ladybird
Silver Meritorious Patron
Happy, I agree with everything Maureen said here. I am glad you came here to talk about what happened to you. Whatever you decide to do there are people here who have been through similar things and will understand and help you.
I recommend reporting this to the police. One of the reasons the cult gets away with hurting people is because people are so afraid of them when they first get out that they don't want to report anything. Then, by the time they recover enough to realize how wrong it was the statute of limitations has run out so it's too late to file charges.
You might want to check out the Ex Scientology Kids site, too.
http://exscientologykids.com/
I recommend reporting this to the police. One of the reasons the cult gets away with hurting people is because people are so afraid of them when they first get out that they don't want to report anything. Then, by the time they recover enough to realize how wrong it was the statute of limitations has run out so it's too late to file charges.
You might want to check out the Ex Scientology Kids site, too.
http://exscientologykids.com/
Twin A
Patron with Honors
OK, one more thing.
By the way, I do believe you... but if you were making this up, I would write the same things. This chain is for ANYONE who has been hit, punched, pushed around, had hot coffee thrown on them, screamed and cussed at by a Scientologists. I'm sorry to all those decent people out there who never hit or screamed at another when they were a Scientologist and maybe think it silly to attribute this kind of behavior to a Scientologist in particular. Well... what I'm saying is that there are clues and hints in LRH's teachings that a PERSON can USE if they are a Scientologist to JUSTIFY hitting someone or screaming at them viciously. I'm not saying it's part of Scientology at all. But I do know that there are elements of LRH's teachings that can be USED to justify this kind of behavior and so it actually does not shock me to hear a story about a Scietnology exec or staff member doing something like this.
In the very beginning, when Scientologists get taught the Communications Course and they do TRs, Training Routines -- There is the TR 4, where the coach is supposed to try to get up and leave to avoid answering the question, "do Birds Fly?" or "Do Fish Swim?" and it is a FLUNK if the trainee, the person doing the TR, LETS THE COACH LEAVE. I was trained, and so are all Scientologists, to PHYSICALLY prevent someone from leaving in that drill. Later, this is included in Scientology Counselling. Counsellors are trained to always sit by the door of a counselling room and to PHYSICALLY block their pre-clear (person getting counselling) from leaving the room. The explanation for this is that "the reactive mind", the part of the mind that Scientology believes to be the root of all evil (besides the other stuff on the Advanced Levels), can take over and cause someone to react and to dramatize to prevent them from getting better. So right there, there is a door open to the non-recognition of the pre-clears RIGHT to freely walk out of the auditing room.
In the Hubbard policy letter called "Keeping Scientology Working" -- LRH kind of makes some deragatory comment about Democracy. OK, that is just one sentence, it might not seem like it means much. But I will tell you that it's actually a very important thing to know that LRH did not like Democracy. In the United States we live by the rule of law. Laws are set and determined by people who get voted for, our representatives. We all have some say in how we are governed that way. So -- if someone doesn't like Democracy, they probably don't like following the laws that we have passed. LRH absolutely would have wanted to be some kind of great leader setting all the laws and rules himself, leaving no one else a vote.
Look, you have a right to pursue happiness as long as it is legal. There are many many legal things that are fun to do. It happens to NOT be fun if someone hits me. Especially hard too. Now, in most of America, it has been determined to be ILLEGAL for someone to hit you, cause harm to your person, assualt -- there are many names for it. This society as a large group of people decided a while ago to make it illegal to assault people. It is part of Democracy that got his law into place and if will stay in place as long as we all decide we like and are happy with this law.
Now, Mr. Scientologist over there in LV wants to come along and say the he is somehow ABOVE Democracy and our rules and laws.... just maybe LRH's anti democracy crap is letting him think that way, and he thinks it is OK to hit someone, to be above the law.
I have met Scientologists who DID think they were above the law, and they used LRH"s teachings to support these views. NOt, the majority, not EVERYONE, but enough to make me realize that Scientology teachings are peppered with open holes for this kind of behavior. I met a Scientologist who had openly admitted to me that he was involved with a hit and run car accident. He'd purposefully accelerated his car towards another car whom he THOUGHT was a drug dealer, just to scare him, then--- after he smashed in the guys car accidentally, he backed up and he just took off and drove away and never reported it. He felt that he had "delivered an effective blow to the enemies of the group" in doing so. The quotations are out of the Intro to Scientology Ethics Book, it's a step that Scientologists do to get out of the condition of Liability. This guys may not even be a Scientologist anymore, but at that moment in time, in his OWN MIND, he was applying "Scientology."
Another example. I had a boss that I was working for and one of his other employees, a married man, had made an inapproriate pass at me while I was working with him. I told my Boss. My boss DID NOTHING. I was upset about this. My Boss cited the L. Ron Hubbard policy letter about ethics protection. He said that this married man was "upstat" which was a Scientology term for the fact that the guy did his job and got his products regularly, on time and so he was not going to discipline him or even bring it up. This was according to an L. Ron Hubbard policy, to let "upstats" get away with whatever they want.
If you search the internet and look up tommy gorman's story, about how his wife had been raped before he had married her, by a Scientology church Executive and both she and him were told NOT to tell the police by other Scientologists!!!! They got mad at her for it and not the Church Exec because this exec was apparently "UPSTAT." Those are stupid Scientology policies, they don't work in REAL life. In REAL life, you HAVE to punish criminals, it DOES NOT MATTER how hard they work and how much money they make, they broke the law.
Us Americans, us democrats, we want a society where we do not get unjustly physically hit. We do not want a society where anyone can just hit someone because they feel like it. I'm not talking about justifyable self defense, I'm talking about using unnecessary pain and force. People used to whip their slaves back in the old days. Many human rights activists risked their lives, gave their lives over the years to CHANGE that, so that there was NO Slavery and whipping and hitting others to gain compliance is now against the law.
If you are robbing a store and have a gun in your hand, expect the police to tackle you and hit you. But if you are in that store legally and there is an unlocked door that you curiously looked inside, the police, that store owner, has NO RIGHT to hit you or discipline you beyond a "Please don't go in there, I'm sorry I didn't lock the door and put a big sign on it"
OK, enough of my soap box
By the way, I do believe you... but if you were making this up, I would write the same things. This chain is for ANYONE who has been hit, punched, pushed around, had hot coffee thrown on them, screamed and cussed at by a Scientologists. I'm sorry to all those decent people out there who never hit or screamed at another when they were a Scientologist and maybe think it silly to attribute this kind of behavior to a Scientologist in particular. Well... what I'm saying is that there are clues and hints in LRH's teachings that a PERSON can USE if they are a Scientologist to JUSTIFY hitting someone or screaming at them viciously. I'm not saying it's part of Scientology at all. But I do know that there are elements of LRH's teachings that can be USED to justify this kind of behavior and so it actually does not shock me to hear a story about a Scietnology exec or staff member doing something like this.
In the very beginning, when Scientologists get taught the Communications Course and they do TRs, Training Routines -- There is the TR 4, where the coach is supposed to try to get up and leave to avoid answering the question, "do Birds Fly?" or "Do Fish Swim?" and it is a FLUNK if the trainee, the person doing the TR, LETS THE COACH LEAVE. I was trained, and so are all Scientologists, to PHYSICALLY prevent someone from leaving in that drill. Later, this is included in Scientology Counselling. Counsellors are trained to always sit by the door of a counselling room and to PHYSICALLY block their pre-clear (person getting counselling) from leaving the room. The explanation for this is that "the reactive mind", the part of the mind that Scientology believes to be the root of all evil (besides the other stuff on the Advanced Levels), can take over and cause someone to react and to dramatize to prevent them from getting better. So right there, there is a door open to the non-recognition of the pre-clears RIGHT to freely walk out of the auditing room.
In the Hubbard policy letter called "Keeping Scientology Working" -- LRH kind of makes some deragatory comment about Democracy. OK, that is just one sentence, it might not seem like it means much. But I will tell you that it's actually a very important thing to know that LRH did not like Democracy. In the United States we live by the rule of law. Laws are set and determined by people who get voted for, our representatives. We all have some say in how we are governed that way. So -- if someone doesn't like Democracy, they probably don't like following the laws that we have passed. LRH absolutely would have wanted to be some kind of great leader setting all the laws and rules himself, leaving no one else a vote.
Look, you have a right to pursue happiness as long as it is legal. There are many many legal things that are fun to do. It happens to NOT be fun if someone hits me. Especially hard too. Now, in most of America, it has been determined to be ILLEGAL for someone to hit you, cause harm to your person, assualt -- there are many names for it. This society as a large group of people decided a while ago to make it illegal to assault people. It is part of Democracy that got his law into place and if will stay in place as long as we all decide we like and are happy with this law.
Now, Mr. Scientologist over there in LV wants to come along and say the he is somehow ABOVE Democracy and our rules and laws.... just maybe LRH's anti democracy crap is letting him think that way, and he thinks it is OK to hit someone, to be above the law.
I have met Scientologists who DID think they were above the law, and they used LRH"s teachings to support these views. NOt, the majority, not EVERYONE, but enough to make me realize that Scientology teachings are peppered with open holes for this kind of behavior. I met a Scientologist who had openly admitted to me that he was involved with a hit and run car accident. He'd purposefully accelerated his car towards another car whom he THOUGHT was a drug dealer, just to scare him, then--- after he smashed in the guys car accidentally, he backed up and he just took off and drove away and never reported it. He felt that he had "delivered an effective blow to the enemies of the group" in doing so. The quotations are out of the Intro to Scientology Ethics Book, it's a step that Scientologists do to get out of the condition of Liability. This guys may not even be a Scientologist anymore, but at that moment in time, in his OWN MIND, he was applying "Scientology."
Another example. I had a boss that I was working for and one of his other employees, a married man, had made an inapproriate pass at me while I was working with him. I told my Boss. My boss DID NOTHING. I was upset about this. My Boss cited the L. Ron Hubbard policy letter about ethics protection. He said that this married man was "upstat" which was a Scientology term for the fact that the guy did his job and got his products regularly, on time and so he was not going to discipline him or even bring it up. This was according to an L. Ron Hubbard policy, to let "upstats" get away with whatever they want.
If you search the internet and look up tommy gorman's story, about how his wife had been raped before he had married her, by a Scientology church Executive and both she and him were told NOT to tell the police by other Scientologists!!!! They got mad at her for it and not the Church Exec because this exec was apparently "UPSTAT." Those are stupid Scientology policies, they don't work in REAL life. In REAL life, you HAVE to punish criminals, it DOES NOT MATTER how hard they work and how much money they make, they broke the law.
Us Americans, us democrats, we want a society where we do not get unjustly physically hit. We do not want a society where anyone can just hit someone because they feel like it. I'm not talking about justifyable self defense, I'm talking about using unnecessary pain and force. People used to whip their slaves back in the old days. Many human rights activists risked their lives, gave their lives over the years to CHANGE that, so that there was NO Slavery and whipping and hitting others to gain compliance is now against the law.
If you are robbing a store and have a gun in your hand, expect the police to tackle you and hit you. But if you are in that store legally and there is an unlocked door that you curiously looked inside, the police, that store owner, has NO RIGHT to hit you or discipline you beyond a "Please don't go in there, I'm sorry I didn't lock the door and put a big sign on it"
OK, enough of my soap box
Twin A
Patron with Honors
Hello, I kind of misread your first post, I was thinking you got hit by the auditor for some reason.
I wonder if that Ethics Officer is new at LV Org? I mean, was he just treating you like a racalcitrant kid? Like maybe he was "spanking" you somehow?
Nonetheless, it still wasn't legal, I'm sorry that happened to you.
do you still have bruises?
Keep a diary? You could take some pictures of the bruises for some kind of evidence, the outside of the org, even the guy who did it if you want and just stick it in your diary with ALL the details and the date and time --and then you won't have to carry it around with you in your head so much. If you decide to tell the police, you'll have it there. I mean, it gets to a point where it would be too late to get the police involved, but just for your own support. That's kind of the way life is in general, always expect to be challenged. My boyfriend does it all the time to me, It makes it easier for me to deal with it from non friendlys. Always be prepared to have evidence and proof. People don't challenge you to be mean or because they don't like you (althought some do) -- it's expected, it's part of speaking up and talking, having supportive evidence.
Look, I have another suggestion, not to write too much at you all at once, but you could call the non-emergency police number from a pay phone and test the waters and just anonymously ask, "Someone just hit me and I don't know what to do.." and see what the lady says. She might sound kind of bored like shes thinking "join the crowd, this is las vegas..." and monotonously try to get more details out of you, but if she is a could call reciever, she'll recognize the stress and confusion of a recent abuse victim and be able to walk you through it.
I wonder if that Ethics Officer is new at LV Org? I mean, was he just treating you like a racalcitrant kid? Like maybe he was "spanking" you somehow?
Nonetheless, it still wasn't legal, I'm sorry that happened to you.
do you still have bruises?
Keep a diary? You could take some pictures of the bruises for some kind of evidence, the outside of the org, even the guy who did it if you want and just stick it in your diary with ALL the details and the date and time --and then you won't have to carry it around with you in your head so much. If you decide to tell the police, you'll have it there. I mean, it gets to a point where it would be too late to get the police involved, but just for your own support. That's kind of the way life is in general, always expect to be challenged. My boyfriend does it all the time to me, It makes it easier for me to deal with it from non friendlys. Always be prepared to have evidence and proof. People don't challenge you to be mean or because they don't like you (althought some do) -- it's expected, it's part of speaking up and talking, having supportive evidence.
Look, I have another suggestion, not to write too much at you all at once, but you could call the non-emergency police number from a pay phone and test the waters and just anonymously ask, "Someone just hit me and I don't know what to do.." and see what the lady says. She might sound kind of bored like shes thinking "join the crowd, this is las vegas..." and monotonously try to get more details out of you, but if she is a could call reciever, she'll recognize the stress and confusion of a recent abuse victim and be able to walk you through it.
Hello
Patron
Twin A
Patron with Honors
Another thing I'd suggest, for your own peace of mind, is to take a self defense class.
I took one, just a one day class where the instructor taught some basic moves for if someone tried to attack me, particularly a guy trying to rape me or something. I practised the self defense moves over and over in different situations. Afterwards, I felt better that I knew I could defend myself in certain situations to some degree. Someone trying to pin me down or hold me down. Unfortuately the world has some really creapy people in it, so you have to be able to defend yourself.
Well, my training did come in handy. Years later, some crazy drugged guy came at me, I think he was on speed or something, and was calling me a slut and a whore and saying overlly nice things about my female anatomy. He kept getting closer and closer to me and I could see his dilated pupils, I told him to back off and he just said "make me" and he tried to grab me and I kicked him in the nuts as hard as I could. He doubled over a little and then I shoved him back, he tripped on a throw carpet and slid away on the wood floor enough that I could shut the door to the room I was in and lock it. The guy hardly knew me, he was a friend of someone who's house I stayed at briefly. he just was on some kind of weird drug trip, he wasn't seeing reality. I was happy to have avoided letting him act out on me. I was proud of myself that I was able to protect myself. I know in the future if someone, anyone, wants to try and lay a hand on me--- I have some tricks. The best thing to do is to avoid getting into a room with a stranger alone at all, but if you do ever get caught by surprise by someone you think is a friend who is acting weird or whatever, you gotta be able to defend yourself.
Even if you never have to use it, knowing that you CAN makes you feel tougher and more stable.
I do actually believe in kind of a kharma thing, sort of like the Scientology overt-motivator sequence thing. But I ALSO believe that there are OTHER people in the universe besides ME who have their own crap going on. So shit CAN happen to you just because you are there. It has nothing to do whether you deserve it or not or whether you "pulled it in." SO--- it helps to know that. That SHIT can happen and to be prepared.
I don't know if you have nightmares about it or anything like that, well I kind of do believe a little bit in the "reactive mind" concept that there is a mind that stores traumatic things out of survival. But I don't think it's bad. It's a survival mechanism. If your body-mind- combination gets the idea that it IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN AGAIN, then it won't replay for you over and over again. You learn from the experience, you know how to prevent it, or how to get it to have another outcome, then it won't happen again. Your mind wont' have to bug you about it, or warn you of it with the bad memory because you've got it under control. So... again, learning self defense helps that too. I know certain types of abuse I've had I can fight back against so I don't have nightmares or flashbacks or reactive mind crap going on about it anymore.
Well, that's just another two cents for you.
Wish you luck with whatever you decide to do and try.
Mo
I took one, just a one day class where the instructor taught some basic moves for if someone tried to attack me, particularly a guy trying to rape me or something. I practised the self defense moves over and over in different situations. Afterwards, I felt better that I knew I could defend myself in certain situations to some degree. Someone trying to pin me down or hold me down. Unfortuately the world has some really creapy people in it, so you have to be able to defend yourself.
Well, my training did come in handy. Years later, some crazy drugged guy came at me, I think he was on speed or something, and was calling me a slut and a whore and saying overlly nice things about my female anatomy. He kept getting closer and closer to me and I could see his dilated pupils, I told him to back off and he just said "make me" and he tried to grab me and I kicked him in the nuts as hard as I could. He doubled over a little and then I shoved him back, he tripped on a throw carpet and slid away on the wood floor enough that I could shut the door to the room I was in and lock it. The guy hardly knew me, he was a friend of someone who's house I stayed at briefly. he just was on some kind of weird drug trip, he wasn't seeing reality. I was happy to have avoided letting him act out on me. I was proud of myself that I was able to protect myself. I know in the future if someone, anyone, wants to try and lay a hand on me--- I have some tricks. The best thing to do is to avoid getting into a room with a stranger alone at all, but if you do ever get caught by surprise by someone you think is a friend who is acting weird or whatever, you gotta be able to defend yourself.
Even if you never have to use it, knowing that you CAN makes you feel tougher and more stable.
I do actually believe in kind of a kharma thing, sort of like the Scientology overt-motivator sequence thing. But I ALSO believe that there are OTHER people in the universe besides ME who have their own crap going on. So shit CAN happen to you just because you are there. It has nothing to do whether you deserve it or not or whether you "pulled it in." SO--- it helps to know that. That SHIT can happen and to be prepared.
I don't know if you have nightmares about it or anything like that, well I kind of do believe a little bit in the "reactive mind" concept that there is a mind that stores traumatic things out of survival. But I don't think it's bad. It's a survival mechanism. If your body-mind- combination gets the idea that it IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN AGAIN, then it won't replay for you over and over again. You learn from the experience, you know how to prevent it, or how to get it to have another outcome, then it won't happen again. Your mind wont' have to bug you about it, or warn you of it with the bad memory because you've got it under control. So... again, learning self defense helps that too. I know certain types of abuse I've had I can fight back against so I don't have nightmares or flashbacks or reactive mind crap going on about it anymore.
Well, that's just another two cents for you.
Wish you luck with whatever you decide to do and try.
Mo
feline
Patron Meritorious
Hi Hello,
I am really concerned about how you are holding up right now. You said in an earlier post that your Mom is kinda detached from you and that you are feeling kinda isolated. Is that still the case?
I have some safe referrals in Las Vegas that would be willing to help you through the processes- if you want to go to the police, they will help you. They are with the Victim's unit of the Clark County police department. They will talk to you via email if that is more comfortable for you.
Are you really just searching for what is meaningful for you? I have a few contacts in that regard as well. You can click on my name and I can send that information to you. The way our PM system works is that I will never see your email address. You will never see mine. Everything is anonymous. I can never find you and will never know anything about what you do with the information.
The same thing is true if you get in touch with Maureen. She can't see your private information and will never know anything that you don't tell her. And she won't know your private information either.
Sweetie- you are safe with us. We are only trying to help and at the same time, respect your privacy.
I understand how hard it is to tell someone that you have been hurt. And not exactly have a supportive parent. It sucked for me when I was your age, I don't guess it got better. What is even harder is that you got a whole lot of crap communication from all sides- from the coS you heard that it was all your fault. From your Mom, you probably hear that you are probably in the wrong and deserve anything you get. From you friend you might have heard, "I told you to not go in there!"
None of this means that you deserve to be hit. None of it.
Please stay away from the coS. Do not go back there at all. Ever. Can't say it enough. Any place that has people that would do that to you is poison and should be avoided at all costs. Just say NO. You will find the acceptance you are looking for in so many other and better places than that. Your local Humane Society would LOVE to have you volunteer time there. It won't cost you a dime and you get to walk dogs and pet cats. And I know of a couple of no-kill volunteer shelters in addition. Let's face it- isn't a kitty purr better? And there are hundreds of other places you can spend your time and still feel the love and acceptance- without the hitting. And without the cult.
Sweetie, we are reaching out because we care. Let us know on the board or privately how we can help.
I am really concerned about how you are holding up right now. You said in an earlier post that your Mom is kinda detached from you and that you are feeling kinda isolated. Is that still the case?
I have some safe referrals in Las Vegas that would be willing to help you through the processes- if you want to go to the police, they will help you. They are with the Victim's unit of the Clark County police department. They will talk to you via email if that is more comfortable for you.
Are you really just searching for what is meaningful for you? I have a few contacts in that regard as well. You can click on my name and I can send that information to you. The way our PM system works is that I will never see your email address. You will never see mine. Everything is anonymous. I can never find you and will never know anything about what you do with the information.
The same thing is true if you get in touch with Maureen. She can't see your private information and will never know anything that you don't tell her. And she won't know your private information either.
Sweetie- you are safe with us. We are only trying to help and at the same time, respect your privacy.
I understand how hard it is to tell someone that you have been hurt. And not exactly have a supportive parent. It sucked for me when I was your age, I don't guess it got better. What is even harder is that you got a whole lot of crap communication from all sides- from the coS you heard that it was all your fault. From your Mom, you probably hear that you are probably in the wrong and deserve anything you get. From you friend you might have heard, "I told you to not go in there!"
None of this means that you deserve to be hit. None of it.
Please stay away from the coS. Do not go back there at all. Ever. Can't say it enough. Any place that has people that would do that to you is poison and should be avoided at all costs. Just say NO. You will find the acceptance you are looking for in so many other and better places than that. Your local Humane Society would LOVE to have you volunteer time there. It won't cost you a dime and you get to walk dogs and pet cats. And I know of a couple of no-kill volunteer shelters in addition. Let's face it- isn't a kitty purr better? And there are hundreds of other places you can spend your time and still feel the love and acceptance- without the hitting. And without the cult.
Sweetie, we are reaching out because we care. Let us know on the board or privately how we can help.
Cat's Squirrel
Gold Meritorious Patron
Post deleted
Last edited:
Cat's Squirrel
Gold Meritorious Patron
I'd second the self defence / martial arts training and agree with feline's post too.
exsomessenger
Patron Meritorious
this still sounds a bit Fishy to me. Mby in the SO or up lines, but in a class IV org? violence is not the norm, lower conditions and MEST work yes. but physical contact!?!? I was a teen in the SO and did a bunch of mission into the cadet orgs in PAC and FLAG. The places were a mess and the kids were not Well taken care of. but never any abuse that I had seen or even heard about.
just chuckin in my two cents , or lack there of.
Cheers ExSOM
just chuckin in my two cents , or lack there of.
Cheers ExSOM
Voltaire's Child
Fool on the Hill
Maybe it's a one-off, an anomaly that truly did happen. It isn't the sort of thing I ever saw in missions or orgs, either, but human variables being what they are...
Pierrot
Patron with Honors
Since you didn't tell your mom and you're 17 - who did sign the papers so you could get that "stick" auditing? - that person has to know or you've been allowed on auditing lines illegally ?
Hello
Patron
My friends mom signed for it
That could get the 'Church' in some very deep trouble.
Couldn't happen to a nicer cult. Really.
Zinj
Wisened One
Crusader
Your friend's mom signed it? 
Figures. Co$ is like that...they didn't want to 'risk' you (or them) asking your own mom in case she was against it.
Well, well, anything she (the friend's mom) or you signed, isn't legally binding then. So, I'd get my money back, and stay FAR away for GOOD
Like Zinj said, they can get in big trouble..and he's right, it couldn't happen to a nicer cult,
Figures. Co$ is like that...they didn't want to 'risk' you (or them) asking your own mom in case she was against it.
Well, well, anything she (the friend's mom) or you signed, isn't legally binding then. So, I'd get my money back, and stay FAR away for GOOD
Like Zinj said, they can get in big trouble..and he's right, it couldn't happen to a nicer cult,
