I know Hubbard lived the life he wanted to live.

[The Oracle]

My viewpoint on Hubbard is that he lived the life he wanted to live.

He was well read and intelligent. Apparently many people valued his company.

The information he put forth has been very beneficial to me. If I hadn't become interested in Scientology, I still would have read and searched for knowledge from others to undertstand better , the mysteries I could not define.

I am glad I opened those books, though I read from many books by different people.

The auditing worked for me. I went clear without having read the Dianetics book or any other book so that experience was very real to me as a result of the auditing.

He borrowed from many places, as do we all in our words and identities.

Perhaps if he could have accepted more help himself, for himself, others too could have made things smoother. I would have done many many things differently in designing the movement organizationally. But he wore many hats, maybe too many.

I am not interested too much these days in the life he lead personally.

I just think he was a man who was able to live the life he wanted and at the same time get others to understand better how to do that for themselves.

I think the "Godlike" creatures that play those roles in this drama, Ron, the Sea Org members, are perhaps too serious for me as a being to get into a comfort zone with. But there are many who enjoy that type of theatre.

Freedom is a two edged sword, for everyone.

Below I post a link to an essay written by Jack Parsons, who was one of Hubbards early friends. There is a ring of familiarity with the phrases, I understand He conveyed many "secrets" to Ron from the Crowley secret society.

Ron was just a man who was able to live out of the box.

And he did many extraordinary things. That's all.

I find myself amused at those who feel compelled to kick around his forsaken identity. Many people are stuck in a fascination at the mere fact that he walked amoungst us and made things snap and pop.

He obviously created many effects, and I think more better than not.

Many are still obsessed so with his life, conversations reel around the globe on an hourly basis in wonderment and and from every place emoting begins.

If he walked in a room, I guess I would applaud.

THAT was an act!

I don't miss him or attach any sorrows to my adventures by him.

He said, "You are beginning an adventure, treat it as an adventure".

I did.

That's all.


http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/bb/babalon210.htm

T.I.

 

[Kilia]

And he did many extraordinary things. That's all.

I am interested in what you deem are the "extraordinary things" he did.
Thanks..

 

[The Oracle]

easier to ask..

Easier for me to ask you, what was ordinary about his life?



T.I.

 

[Kilia]

Sorry, to me the word, "extraordinary" means something good.

Did he do anything good besides fool people into giving thousands of dollars to his "church"?

 

[The Oracle]

extraordinary..this and that.

Re: Extraordinary.

Some definitions:

Ordinary: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ordinary

Extra: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/extra

extraordinary: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/extraordinary

Hope these illustrate better the possibility of truth to be found in my statement.


Re: This and that.

I do not A=A=A=A DM with Hubbard, Hubbard with the current Church, Hubbard with any "God", DM with any judicial powers because he is in a uniform, auditors with priests, Hubbard as a "savior", or and of the other topics that get lumped into the same bread dough when people mention the word "Scientology".

The bible was nothing more than a self help book.

It was edited early on by vested interests to delete the valuable knowledge from the Gnostics, which included the basics of the OT levels sold in the Church today.

It doesn't surprise me that the same thing is happening today with the materials in the Church.

But that Church is not "Scientology". It is buildings, staff, uniforms, papers books and pencils. Nothing more. Many of the staff have never read a book about Scientology.

I think the identity worship in the current group holding legal copyrights is quite abberated, just as abberated as attacking the dead man. The busts, the applause to nobody there to reveive it, the museums, buying up every piece of dirt Hubberd slept over, this is very abberated.

In general the activity has dwindled to worshipping bodies as an undercurrent, the uniforms key people in to wars that are not happening on their street, and militia where no crimes are occurring. in the building. From my experience preists and militia are heavily charged items and this attracts a certain group of people who further , by their presence, chip away at the others ability to reason in present time.

"The Church of Scientology" has become the biggest generality used on the net in discussion.

"The Church of Scientology" is nothing more than a phrase used for people to locate addresses on the map where certain people can be found, and to signify legal ownership of real property.

The point is, when someone bumps into this arena in life, there are many heavily charged items that get restimulated. Religion, magic, militia, injustice, stupidity, education, illusion. Much illusion. Suck fixed ideas as "He's trained and OT, he must be sane". "He's a Sea Org member, he must be in ethics". The list could go on and on and on and on through infinity.

For many, the key in is so great the reaction is to attack.

For some, as the fear kicks in, a person can rise up and face the fact that they need to do a contact assist with the Scientology.

When you have an upset, you take the chaos from INSIDE YOURSELF which has been awakened, and deal with it on a personal basis with the information laid out in the books.

My own personal viewpoint is that we here, in this section of the galaxy, have come under some black magic.

Hubbard was a master at working his way out from under some of that black magic.

He was nothing more than a master wizard at escape and conditions.

He did at times become the effect of his own magic.

He was kind enough to leave some records.

Some people got it, most people didn't.



T.I.

 

[Kilia]

This is what I was referring to as my interpretation of the word "extraordinary".

2. exceptional in character, amount, extent, degree, etc.; noteworthy; remarkable: extraordinary speed; an extraordinary man.

Sorry, I do not think of LRH in this fashion.

 

[The Oracle]

I understand.

In restrospect, I think Hubbard may have come up with the uniform/militia idea, to protect the staff. Knowing many people key in at the sight of uniforms and militia. And maybe withold attack.

But he clearly wrote that people were to get themselves up the bridge first, then help others.

So, he didn't consider this advice would be wholly ignored and staff would key each other in on the militia end.

He also wrote that staff were to get 2 1/2 hours a day study, another policy wholly ignored. In fact , when I was in the Sea Org, six years, I was never permitted any study time, not even to finish the EPF.

I could go on and on and on about the vast advices no longer in practice in the formal "Church" or outside.

So, where I see things gone wholly awry, I do not see it as the fault of Hubbard.

I see it as the course of others who chose to wholly ignore certain advice or information.

And, although the man passed on two decades ago, he is still "held accountable" for the decisions of others.

Injustice always recoils on those who deal in it. Hubbard said it and I have found it to be very true.

Reap what ye shall sew, charma, and all that...well, that has been around forever and is understood very well in many different circles.

I see less and less evidence of Scientology though on the landscape.

I can not attack a dead man/forsaken identity for events manifesting two decades beyond his departure. I see that as an injustice if not an inability to confront the people in front of me. If fact, I just don't attack people at all that are not in a position to answer back, or fight back.





T.I.

 

[freet43]

He also wrote that staff were to get 2 1/2 hours a day study, another policy wholly ignored. In fact , when I was in the Sea Org, six years, I was never permitted any study time, not even to finish the EPF.

T.I.

It is very sad where things have gotten to in the CO$.

Decades ago at our mission, 2 1/2 hours of study or auditing were the norm daily for each staff member. Staff were also routinely sent to orgs/ASHO/AOLA/FLAG for full-time training and auditing at full expense of the mission.

No wonder there is such a wide range of realities of what it was like to be on staff.

 

[programmer_guy]

Mission staff sent to upper orgs for training

Decades ago at our mission, 2 1/2 hours of study or auditing were the norm daily for each staff member. Staff were also routinely sent to orgs/ASHO/AOLA/FLAG for full-time training and auditing at full expense of the mission.

Generally, that is the way it was at the Riverside Mission - on both of your points.

 

[programmer_guy]

I know Hubbard lived the life he wanted to live.

Are you making a play on word definitions? Equivocation? Otherwise, I'm puzzled by your statement.


Hubbard wanted to heavily influence Greece (maybe even take over). This didn't happen - he was ejected.

Hubbard wanted to take over Rhodesia. This didn't happen - he was ejected.

Hubbard finally went into hiding.

I really don't think that this is "the life he wanted to live".

 

[The Oracle]

I am not playing any covert games, all of my cards are on the table.
I am not Hubbards defense attorney and do not seek out games against the many self appointed prosecutors.
If you discovered he suffered two disappointments in his real estate interests good for you.
I tend to doubt this ruined his life or created a synthetic existance for him, but that is my supposition.



T.I.

 

[programmer_guy]

I am not playing any covert games, all of my cards are on the table.

What I meant was if hiding out in a Bluebird in California was his choice then one could construe this to mean that he "lived the life he wanted to live" - by his own choices. However, I wouldn't think that this is the truth considering what his goals were - a Scientology planet. He failed.

I am not Hubbards defense attorney and do not seek out games against the many self appointed prosecutors.

We are all advocates of some things and prosecutors of other things in our day-to-day life. This is what liberty is all about.

If you discovered he suffered two disappointments in his real estate interests good for you.

You say "real estate interests". That is an interesting way of putting it.
I only provided 2 as examples - there were more.

Did his attempted intrusions into foreign countries ruin his life? Yes it did.

I also think that Operation Snow White was a fiasco of criminal activity.

 

[The Oracle]

If it brings you comfort to beleive he "totally failed" and "suffered" with compromises, then take your thoughts and refer to them for comfort.

I wish you well with those pleasures.

If success revovles upon real estate aqcuisitions he certainly didn't qualify for that race.



T.I.

 

[The Oracle]

Although his real property investment portfolio included several homes and acerage beyond the average investor in the west coast.

Far beyond what I hold in Capital, and I am considered affluent.

May I ask why you consider his real estate investments so meager?

Perhaps compared to your holdings you were able to view him as a minor player?

He had many friends.

Sold many books.

Retired wealthy.

People still pay to read what he had to say.

I am very interested to know what achievments you have obtained to hold such of his achievments in contempt and scorn.

???

Perhaps you knew him personally and he offended you in some way?

I feel our distance in reality must certainly revolve around some important information on my part about you and your success?



T.I.

 

[The Oracle]

As far as snow white and some criminal activity, people under suppression make mistakes.

I have been under suppression myself and made mistakes.

I am reckoning there are plenty of people amongst us who have never been under suppression and never made any mistakes and that is why they are so unforgiving of others that have suffered that experience.

You are perhaps one of the fortunate ones.



T.I.

 

[The Oracle]

QUOTE=programmer_guy;

"We are all advocates of some things and prosecutors of other things in our day-to-day life. This is what liberty is all about."


I am not a prosecutor in any capacity.

My definition of liberty does not approximate yours.

Accepting invitations to be PRO or ANTI for others is an assumption of synthetic creativity. I am not a hired soldier for causes, or witch hunts. And those soldiers that are, are far from liberty. They are boxed in the allegiences they pledge.

Liberty, for me, means freedom to create something that did not exist before and not be penalized for it. NOT to jump on some political campaign in a cluster mob.

Either ANTI or PRO.

If you view liberty as the license to prosecute and find others guilty or innocent I dare suggest you liberty is very limited.

There is a universe far beyond this where everyone is right, everyone is safe, and everyone can win.

I hope you arrive there some day.




T.I.

 

[Veda]

As far as snow white and some criminal activity, people under suppression make mistakes.

I have been under suppression myself and made mistakes.

I am reckoning there are plenty of people amongst us who have never been under suppression and never made any mistakes and that is why they are so unforgiving of others that have suffered that experience.

You are perhaps one of the fortunate ones.



T.I.

Have you read any part of Hubbard's extensive "confidential" and "highly confidential" "Intelligence tech" writings?

Have you examined any of the (available) covert "dirty tricks" ops documents, checklists, and orders?

'Snow White' was not a "mistake," any more than a long-planned bank robbery is a "mistake."

Nor was 'OP Dynamite', - which later became 'OP Freak Out' - nor any of the many other Ops, a "mistake."

These were carefully thought out and very premeditated.

And the "philosophy" behind these actions goes back to at least 1938.

Have you read the 1938 "Skipper Letter"?

No?

May be you should take some time and do some more reading.

Anyone who cares about saving the "good parts" of Scientology, if realistic, will need to be aware of the "bad parts."

I suppose one could decide to "think local," and avoid, or rationalize-away, the negatives; but, if you do, really, "think local," then why care about what others think?

 

[The Oracle]

I am sure if you had walked in his shoes you would have bought it all off without blemish.

But you didn't.



T.I.

 

[The Oracle]

T.I.

 

[Veda]

I am sure if you had walked in his shoes you would have bought it all off without blemish.

But you didn't.



T.I.

When something is *deliberately* part of a design, it is not a "blemish."