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I like L. Ron Hubbard

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
People who think they are Scientologists are actually Hubbardites. That's what Scientology does. It converts people to 'Hubbard think', by auditing out their own thoughts. Ask them a question, wait a moment, and you'll get Hubbard's answer.


I was somewhat shocked to read your unsupported, biased & disparaging depiction about Scientologists, Hubbardites et al. Thus I set up a scientific experiment, conducted within recognized protocols, to formally address the issue you have raised.

In a double blind study, 100 randomly selected OT VIII's were asked to demonstrate at least one (1) ability of a Clear or OT.

The tabulated results revealed that all 100 responded without hesitation: "We don't do parlor tricks". From this we have concluded that:

1) Contrary to your fallacious assertion, Scientologists do not respond with "Hubbard's answer".

2) The statistical odds of 100 randomly selected persons answering with the identical (verbatim) answer are 17,067,544,192 to 1.

3) Therefore, by sheer weight of mathematical (i.e. scientific) probability, the identical response, itself, constitutes an anomalous event of such improbable magnitude that only persons possessing telepathic OT abilities amongst themselves could have so responded. (Notation: Mr. Hubbard, having been deceased twenty-six years, was appropriately excluded as a possible Source.)

4) Hence, an OT miracle was declared, validating Dr. Hubbard's predicate research about the restoration of dormant magical powers to every man, woman and child in the universe, happily ever after.​

Our Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Scientological Facts has, accordingly, petitioned the moderators of this message board to have you temporarily banned until such time as you make a public retraction of your erroneous post.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Leon,

Total BS. The claims of Scientology are easily disproven.

Show me a Clear that has the abilities and characteristics as promised by Hubbard in DMSMH. Perfect recall? Lightening fast calculations? Those and all the other claims are fully demonstrable if they existed. All your hand-waving and blustering doesn't change the fact that they would be easily demonstrable if they existed in anyone -- you and no one else can show those promised abilities exist in any "Clear".

Same for "OT". Same for "Release". The existence of the promised abilities would be obvious if they existed. They don't exist.

You very well know this, which is why you are trying to shift the burden of proof. That doesn't work. The burden of proof is always and only on the claimant, not the doubters. Those claiming vast, miraculous benefits from Scientology have the sole responsibility to provide proof, not the rest of the world.

You are pretending that it is up to the real world to disprove Hubbard's ridiculous claims -- that is a false-logic trick. No, you have to prove everything or STFU.

You are trying to shift the burden of proof because you know you can't prove anything Hubbard claimed. It's a dumb trick that we aren't going to fall for.

You say "Scientology can only be experienced". In other words, the "results" only exist if you are a True Believer. That's why the real world "can't see the results", because you must believe.

Bill


Are you able to provide any LRH reference to support your position?

(cricket sounds)

I didn't think so. End of discussion.

Good luck with your eternity, buddy.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Everyone's a mixed bag, as my husband would say. Hubbard was untrustworthy and did a lot of bad things. I do appreciate some of his ideas and I don't see anything wrong with that. But I'm under absolutely no illusions about Hubbard as a person.

I think everyone has some good in them but as to whether or not to like or trust or associate with someone, it depends on what they're asking of/from you. In LRH's case, he asked for everything and then some. That's a big big problem.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Everyone's a mixed bag, as my husband would say. Hubbard was untrustworthy and did a lot of bad things. I do appreciate some of his ideas and I don't see anything wrong with that. But I'm under absolutely no illusions about Hubbard as a person.

I think everyone has some good in them but as to whether or not to like or trust or associate with someone, it depends on what they're asking of/from you. In LRH's case, he asked for everything and then some. That's a big big problem.


I might agree with you, depending on what you mean by "appreciate".

Considering that Hubbard's lectures and writings contained well over 10,000,000 words and that every position, assertion, policy or piece of technology that he asserted was negated by an equal but opposite position, assertion, policy or piece of technology---it is not surprising to find certain words of his that are configured in a way to resemble truth.

Therefore, I invoke the Hubbard Law of Commotion in unequivocally stating that Scientology is 100% workable technology that delivers Total Freedom, whilst simultaneously reminding the reader that if this is not true for you, the previous statement about 100% workable technology is therefore untrue. However, having clarified this exception, it should also be noted that there is an exception to the exception which states that anyone who does not recognize the truth in the original statement has not understood a word in the original statement and this is the only reason said person disagrees. Again, however, if it is not true for the person that they have a misunderstood word, then they do not have a misunderstood word. None of the preceding statements however should be interpreted in any way to suggest that persons who refuse to apply the study tech regarding misunderstood words are not guilty of Suppressive Acts and High Crimes.

Persons who read the above paragraph and are "unable to think with it" should be afforded the opportunity to be rolled-back or false-data-stripped of enemy line and such remedial actions should be continued until the person originates on their own determinism that they are able to make LRH data their own.
 

apocalyptic

Patron with Honors
I do appreciate some of his ideas and I don't see anything wrong with that.

I might agree with you, depending on what you mean by "appreciate".

Substitute the word 'love' for 'appreciate' and the meaning will become 'clear'. Lol

When Hubbard promised 'little-squashed-egos' they would become 'Big-Operating-Thetans', the game was on. And the game remains on. To this very day.

Apoc
 
The claims of Scientology are easily disproven.
Right.
One of the silliest ongoing bleats on this board is the continual demand for "scientific proof" of Scientology. So let me answer this and then hopefully all the demands for it will end.
All I ever suggested was that it would be worthwhile to find out what of the auditing tech did produce results. Are there quantifiable, repeatable, worthwhile results? At no point did I suggest there were clears (other than my self) or OT's (ditto). There may be "releases" or something that parallels that concept.

But, no. Now the debate has escalated to a "rafter shaking of the universe" level. Now, at the risk of putting my foot in my mouth, or talking out of my ass, let me remind you of what David Mayo said?

While my response to this thread is limited (by factors currently beyond my control) I would like to point to recent advances in neurological studies. In particular, but not limited to those of Nobel laureate Elizabeth Blackburn, biologist, University of California. And to similar studies by others involved in the advancement of neurological studies and methods.

These may cast light on the relationship between the placebo effect, failures based on the "15 minute interview and feed 'em a pill" therapies and real improvement based on the practitioners' understanding of what now is being described as the 'alternative approach'.

I would refer anyone interested in further information on this to journals and articles recently and currently being published by neurological institutions. (I refrained from stating 'such as the Mayo Clinic' for obvious reasons. )

The punch line: In my life long pursuit of what is it in belief systems or therapies that makes a person better or worse I have concluded that helpful (definitely non harmful) techniques and the empathy of the practitioner are paramount. I wish to emphasize, the empathy of the practitioner.
Goodbye and good luck,

D

( my red emphasis) That is what I think will be found - they (scientology processes) will produce beneficial results but not the ability to "rip the air cover off the planet and give it a spin" LRH - free being tape (for you DOX or STFU guys)

A hat tip to Bill, who impressed on me not to paraphrase, but copy and paste, since I haven't a clue how to do it, paraphrasing, correctly. Sorry Bill, I couldn't resist the jibe.

Mimsey
 

Bill

Gold Meritorious Patron
What is explicitly promised by Hubbard is not experienced by preclears and what preclears actually experience is not what Hubbard promised.

What preclears experience is not unusual in the population at large under various disciplines and activities.

Now, what value is Scientology, again?

Bill
 

Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
Did Lron actually have an origional thought that is worthy of praise Claire? I've always been curious about this as I look at the Indies and fence-sitters. It has been asked many times of many people and yet I have not really seen a single idea that is either profound or origional, most of the old windbag's stuff is just badly applied philosophy 50's style or a horribly manipulative cobblnig of other, much wiser, people's thoughts, like it's the Reader's Digest or Cole's Notes of a bunch of old ideas. Hey, he wanted to prove he could make a million out of creating a religion, how many parts does it take? Many different aspects must be dealt with to make a good scam work, one is getting a person to believe in even just one idea. Welllllll..... I'd like to know what the great thought was. A good little sheeple would suggest I go into an Org. and find out for myself ( :hysterical:), an Indie might point me to some reading (its happened, it was all bullchips in my honest opinion), ex's who have opened their eyes go "Yup, a pile of manipulative mulch.", Anons went (go), 'Its a pile of twaddle~run away!'. Yupppers, there's been lots of 'Why did you'/'what sucked you in?' threads, but there still has never been a simple answer pointing to anything concrete from 'the Sauce'.
I find nothing likable about Hubbard, he was a frikken fraud and a nasty piece of work, he created something that had effect on people, even makes them feel good (while getting multi-dimensionally raped), made some people money, buuuuuuuttttttt~ at such a price! OMG!
His shit doesn't even remotely float my boat.

So... what was the good stuff again?

*crickets*


:biggrin:

(end of ranty thingie, and oh~ I Love Claire :hug: just in case anyone misconstrues this)

:cheers:
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
One of the silliest ongoing bleats on this board is the continual demand for "scientific proof" of Scientology.


What is explicitly promised by Hubbard is not experienced by preclears and what preclears actually experience is not what Hubbard promised.

What preclears experience is not unusual in the population at large under various disciplines and activities.

Now, what value is Scientology, again?


It has something to do with curing people who bleat questions to Scientologists.
 

Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
The hot chicks doing the body routing....

Mimsey

But then if you were a gork and whacking off to that, hm, out 2-D ethics and admissions, so maybe not so good anyhow? :p (no idea, but apparently ol' Flubbernutz had balls that hung too low due to excessive masturbation, I suspect he should maybe have worn briefs instead of boxers, and lose the scratchy-holes in his pockets)

:nervous:
 

Bill

Gold Meritorious Patron
Right. All I ever suggested was that it would be worthwhile to find out what of the auditing tech did produce results. Are there quantifiable, repeatable, worthwhile results? At no point did I suggest there were clears (other than my self) or OT's (ditto). There may be "releases" or something that parallels that concept.

But, no. Now the debate has escalated to a "rafter shaking of the universe" level. Now, at the risk of putting my foot in my mouth, or talking out of my ass, let me remind you of what David Mayo said?

( my red emphasis) That is what I think will be found - they (scientology processes) will produce beneficial results but not the ability to "rip the air cover off the planet and give it a spin" LRH - free being tape (for you DOX or STFU guys)

A hat tip to Bill, who impressed on me not to paraphrase, but copy and paste, since I haven't a clue how to do it, paraphrasing, correctly. Sorry Bill, I couldn't resist the jibe.

Mimsey
Thanks for the jibe. I'm not always the most considerate or well-mannered person around. I love a good debate.

I sometimes take an extreme viewpoint just to get a debate going -- I want people to argue me out of the absolute position with logic, evidence and proof so we can establish some kind of solid foundation in the middle. That way I learn.

Unfortunately, or fortunately, I'm still at the far position that Scientology does not provably provide any unique and specific benefits beyond, perhaps, space and opportunity for realizations (and, of course, the end of session euphoria).

I actually hope that something good comes out of Scientology and, like you, wish some real study could be made.

Bill
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
I said that I appreciate some of his ideas. And so I do.

Asking me what's "good" (or original) is not the same thing as asking me what I subjectively like.
 

guanoloco

As-Wased
4) Hence, an OT miracle was declared, validating Dr. Hubbard's predicate research about the restoration of dormant magical powers to every man, woman and child in the universe, happily ever after.

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice...it is the Science of Superstition! All this focus on spooky action at a distance and SP influence and ashtrays standing up.

Superstitions...or is it Superstupidstitions...maybe Stupidstitions...
 

Idle Morgue

Gold Meritorious Patron
I vote LEON OFF the ISLAND! His post made my skin crawl!

RON...THE NUT!
oldhubb.jpg
lrh.jpg

hubbard_underground.jpg
ronthecowboy.jpg


RON THE NUTJOB! RON the OATEE...CAUSE? Looks more like EFFECT!
 

Lure Rob & Hyde

Patron with Honors
He never got to really enjoy all this money he supposedly ripped off - I mean it's not as though he was living the good life like a playboy or anything. He had pretty girls as messengers but he never shagged them or anything much as far as I know. He liked his whiskey but that was the culture he grew up in. So what? A man was supposed to drink or he just didn't rate as a man. He certainly could hold his drink more than I have ever been able to.

While I was on the Apollo he was working 16 or more hours a day 7 days a week. He could maintain a very high work output more then anyone else on the ship. And then on top of that he took on all of the hopelessly overloaded Case Supervisor's work too and did that and came up with the new HGC line to improve things.
So he was a liar and a con man and a pirate into the bargain - so what? His overts sure created an effect. Did yours? Ever? So some people bought into the wrong end of him - so sad, too bad, so what? Get over it. Wise up. It doesn't matter at all how many times you fall down - it only matters how many times you get up again.


Don't take the experience you had of Scientology so seriously. It was fun. It was a hoot. I don't hold anything against him. I had a wonderful trip during all those years and, given the same circumstances and knowing what I know now, I'd happily do it all again. And better too. So I'm at peace with him. I wish him well.

Hell's bells, so some guys got put into the chain locker - none of them died there did they? They all got let out again a day or two didn't they? Shit, in some countries even today they'll chuck you into prison just on somebody's say so and just leave you there eating shit for the rest of your life. So get over it. A few hundred years ago you'd get burnt at the stake for no good reason at all. And no one would care.

Even though his overts created an effect, really and truly and facing facts right now, his overts really didn't amount to much at all. They were small time. Al Capone was much worse. Even Jesus sold people a bill of goods and they're still lapping it up.


Ya so what if many lives ruined and people were spiritually & mentally raped with physical torture by this pervert Hublard.
Do you think he hated gays so much cause Jack Parsons rammed his thing up Hubbard's ass too many times during those black magic rituals they did together and Hubbard "sored" to new levels?
I really think Hubbard had a gay streak that he was fighting with when all along when he could have just come out of the closet and been in "valence" .("in valence" was a hubbard term for a person being himself fully)
Yes Wonny was a thilly boy!
 
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