you could get an ebook from kindle on amazon, but, they're a pain to deal with.
I'm glad to get a real copy again. It changed my life. I'm surprised more Scientologists aren't familiar with it.
Zinj
I love Scientology
- Thread starter egghead
- Start date
you could get an ebook from kindle on amazon, but, they're a pain to deal with.
I'm glad to get a real copy again. It changed my life. I'm surprised more Scientologists aren't familiar with it.
Zinj
nozeno
Gold Meritorious Patron
Alanzo
Bardo Tulpa
How does logic tell you this is not possible?
I do not understand how "I wish to live in a state of shared love with my fellow man." is illogical, or how that is a statement that logic could prove impossible.
Could you tell me how, exactly?
Because you say logic tells you how you wish to live is impossible, you conclude this.
OK, so you really gotta show me how logic stopped you above.
I'm still not following. I'm trying.
Help me.
nozeno
Gold Meritorious Patron
Not to be cynical, but you sound like Zeno of Citium.
(All philosophy puns are intended.)
Yes, but we all know the reason you and the parents of both Zenos picked that name was because of a subconscious implant. Is it any surprise all three of you are renegades? I think not! :angel:
Hey I think you might be right. How come none of this shit ever came up in auditing?
EastAnon
Patron with Honors
That can't be right. The answer is always 42, isn't it?
Pascal
Silver Meritorious Patron
Oh shoe!
Darn, that mark Egghead left it seems. I was gonna blast him about his stupid A=A reasoning that Scientology = Church of Scientology. Akin to Catholics claiming to be the only Christian church by burning people at the stake. Poor guy, he was really blind and stupid, far from OT as you can get well then there is DM in close tie.
Well I'll be around more, hopefully the randomity will be at my pleasing to maintain interest...
Bedtime for body...
Darn, that mark Egghead left it seems. I was gonna blast him about his stupid A=A reasoning that Scientology = Church of Scientology. Akin to Catholics claiming to be the only Christian church by burning people at the stake. Poor guy, he was really blind and stupid, far from OT as you can get well then there is DM in close tie.
Well I'll be around more, hopefully the randomity will be at my pleasing to maintain interest...
Bedtime for body...
EP - Ethics Particle
Gold Meritorious Patron
Plum wore out...
Obviously, the entire community is all tuckered out waiting for the golden "egg"...maybe that was the objective - tire the enemy out to the point of exhaustion. :confused2: did a pretty fair job of that, I'd say.
I'm gonna take a walk - but damn sure not gonna run around that freakin' flagpole...or was "egg" the "pole"...
Darn, that mark Egghead left it seems. I was gonna blast him about his stupid A=A reasoning that Scientology = Church of Scientology. Akin to Catholics claiming to be the only Christian church by burning people at the stake. Poor guy, he was really blind and stupid, far from OT as you can get well then there is DM in close tie.
Well I'll be around more, hopefully the randomity will be at my pleasing to maintain interest...
Bedtime for body...
Obviously, the entire community is all tuckered out waiting for the golden "egg"...maybe that was the objective - tire the enemy out to the point of exhaustion. :confused2: did a pretty fair job of that, I'd say.
I'm gonna take a walk - but damn sure not gonna run around that freakin' flagpole...or was "egg" the "pole"...
Panda Termint
Cabal Of One
And the award for "Eggbeater of the Year" goes to...
alex
Gold Meritorious Patron
It is not the wish that is impossible, nor even the actuality but the reconciling of it with "reality", or the observable circumstances and rules of the situation. If I were to look out to the world I would see that strife and dissention are endemic. Knowing the extent of my ability to change the whole world, logic would conclude that it was an impossibility.
Logic has not stopped me, because I abandonded it. (or discard it when not needed) I chose to disagree with the "rules" and observable phenomenon.
If logic is the coherence of cause and effect, and in the model of life as when generally know it, which generally excludes the supernatural and miraculous, logic is not the path to achieve effects outside the model.
Model=context=universe=gestalt=paradigm=reality etc...
The very notion of logic excludes factors outside the scope of it. Which is where the spirit plays....
alex
Vinaire
Sponsor
Logic is a system made up of association of ideas. Some ideas are heavily associated to the point of identification with little room to play; whereas, at the other end of the spectrum, the ideas are barely touching each other while being practically independent with lot of room to play. And all this depends also from the viewpoint one is looking from.
So, logic is a three-dimensional thing very much a function of viewpoint.
What is the purpose of logic? It is to discover "the needle in the haystack." It is to figure out where to look, so the possiblity of "finding the needle" is much greater.
But in the end, the discovery of "the needle" is not dependent on logic. It is dependent on LOOKING.
Logic simply facilitates that looking..
.
So, logic is a three-dimensional thing very much a function of viewpoint.
What is the purpose of logic? It is to discover "the needle in the haystack." It is to figure out where to look, so the possiblity of "finding the needle" is much greater.
But in the end, the discovery of "the needle" is not dependent on logic. It is dependent on LOOKING.
Logic simply facilitates that looking..
.
The Anabaptist Jacques
Crusader
It is not the wish that is impossible, nor even the actuality but the reconciling of it with "reality", or the observable circumstances and rules of the situation. If I were to look out to the world I would see that strife and dissention are endemic. Knowing the extent of my ability to change the whole world, logic would conclude that it was an impossibility.
Logic has not stopped me, because I abandonded it. (or discard it when not needed) I chose to disagree with the "rules" and observable phenomenon.
If logic is the coherence of cause and effect, and in the model of life as when generally know it, which generally excludes the supernatural and miraculous, logic is not the path to achieve effects outside the model.
Model=context=universe=gestalt=paradigm=reality etc...
The very notion of logic excludes factors outside the scope of it. Which is where the spirit plays....
alex
Alex, alex, alex,
You have to realize that you do not know what you are referring to. You are confusing applications of logic with reasoning. Reasoning and logic is not about observable phenomenon. You don't understand what you are talking about. And a bumper-sticker phrase. or Googleing a word is not going to give it to you. You need to educate yourself. Read books! Read Plato's dialogues. Read Aristotle. Read Francis Bacon's essays and New Organon. Read Descartes Discourse on Method. Don't go by what Hubbard ssays they said. He lied. And read Karl Popper on regards to what science is. Almost all of what Hubbard said regarding logic is silly, no mattter how much you think it is true for you. If I went by his logic, I would want to be logical either.
The Anabaptist Jacques
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alex
Gold Meritorious Patron
Logic and reasoning are not about observable phenomenon? Then what is their subject? What proof or conclusion do you see arising from their use with out it?
I would assert that observable phenomenon are a requirement for both.
Again you assume I am arguing hubbards position...with this stereotype in place, your conclusions about me seem predetermined.
I will note that once again you have accused me of faulty intellectual practices and parroting the ideas of another, without actually providing example of how this is so. And implied a lack of education as a reason my ideas are faulty.
Perhaps if your education is so superior you would grace us with the benefit of it rather than ad hominem.
alex
The Anabaptist Jacques
Crusader
Read what I told you. I am no Plato, or Aristotle, or Bacon, or Descartes, or Kant, and neither are you, And neither is Hubbard. Learn what you are talking about. Is that too much to ask?
Personally I prefer Jackie Gleason's homina..homina..homina.. (Google that)
The Anabaptist Jacques
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alex
Gold Meritorious Patron
I am talking about how I see things...my observations on life.
I am sure if I could find those guys blogs, or if they came to this forum, I would find their views interesting too...
alex
The Anabaptist Jacques
Crusader
Alanzo
Bardo Tulpa
I think that Alex answered my questions very honestly. He gave a clear rationale for why he sees logic the way he does, and where it fits in his life. And I, frankly, think that he has a good point.
I also believe that his answer deserves more in response than "read this or that philosopher."
What, exactly, did those those philosophers say that will show his rationale to abandon logic to be in error?
I'm curious, too.
The Anabaptist Jacques
Crusader
I don't have the time to go back and find a particular post. Nor is it on one thread. But I will gather what the faulty logic is and present it fully as I see it. Not just Alex's, because I don't want to single him out. But I'll try to show the illogic which permeates the reasoning I've seen on his and other's post. I'm not saying his answers are not honestly how he feels.
I'll include why I named those philosophers too. Because of time and other duties, it may take me a few days.
How's that?
The Anabptist Jacques
uncle sam
Silver Meritorious Patron
Keep it up!!!!
Gawd - I love these fights-not that anyone of the participants are "pseudo intellectuals"-no not at all. The "thing is" when people who have read so much of hubbard start to have a discussion on abstracts-it seems they just can't "not be right" same as old ronnie. ronnie was so right about everything and it has caused a pandemic among his followers whether in or out. I'm right- no the other says I'm right-geez the back and forth almost makes me want to find my old e-meter and sit everyone down and find the ser-facs. Hang in there because one of you is more right than the other. But the question is "Whose ser-fac is bigger and better?" Now watch as both let me have it because "I'm so wrong".````````````
Gawd - I love these fights-not that anyone of the participants are "pseudo intellectuals"-no not at all. The "thing is" when people who have read so much of hubbard start to have a discussion on abstracts-it seems they just can't "not be right" same as old ronnie. ronnie was so right about everything and it has caused a pandemic among his followers whether in or out. I'm right- no the other says I'm right-geez the back and forth almost makes me want to find my old e-meter and sit everyone down and find the ser-facs. Hang in there because one of you is more right than the other. But the question is "Whose ser-fac is bigger and better?" Now watch as both let me have it because "I'm so wrong".````````````
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