I need help getting my brother out

MysticSister

New Member
Hi all,

I am not an ex scientologist but my brother has been for a year. Initially it was because he moved in with his girlfriend and her parents, who are all scientologists. They got him into auditing and now he's "in love" with scientology. He's never read in his life, but has been eating up LRH's books. He relates all of his life to scientology. Recently he has broken up with his girlfriend and has left their org to move in with my other brother in another state. At this time he has not gone to their local org (we are avoiding it on purpose) but he is in communication with a Sea Org member who is calling him several times a day hounding him about getting back "on track" with his progress.

We've gotten him convinced to attend college, but meanwhile we have several months for cos to rope him back in. And he wants to go. Does anyone have advice on how to get him out? What was your "aha" moment that got you out? I'm so worried that if he gets back into the auditing they are going to label all of us as sps as I'm sure they'll interrogate what we've been filling his head with.

I will say I am amazed at how well their brainwashing works...it's incredible how narrow his vision is. There's an answer for everything which is usually "You have to read Dianetics" or "It's confidential so I don't know"

Any advice at all would be greatly appreciated!!!
 

Gib

Crusader
Hi all,

I am not an ex scientologist but my brother has been for a year. Initially it was because he moved in with his girlfriend and her parents, who are all scientologists. They got him into auditing and now he's "in love" with scientology. He's never read in his life, but has been eating up LRH's books. He relates all of his life to scientology. Recently he has broken up with his girlfriend and has left their org to move in with my other brother in another state. At this time he has not gone to their local org (we are avoiding it on purpose) but he is in communication with a Sea Org member who is calling him several times a day hounding him about getting back "on track" with his progress.

We've gotten him convinced to attend college, but meanwhile we have several months for cos to rope him back in. And he wants to go. Does anyone have advice on how to get him out? What was your "aha" moment that got you out? I'm so worried that if he gets back into the auditing they are going to label all of us as sps as I'm sure they'll interrogate what we've been filling his head with.

I will say I am amazed at how well their brainwashing works...it's incredible how narrow his vision is. There's an answer for everything which is usually "You have to read Dianetics" or "It's confidential so I don't know"

Any advice at all would be greatly appreciated!!!

I'd probably say something like,

yo Bro, there is a series right now on TV called scientology "Leah Remini and the aftermath, check it out.
 

CommunicatorIC

@IndieScieNews on Twitter
There is SO much that can be said in response to your question, much if not all of it better said by others. Plus, to be honest, I'm tired. :) I'll try to come back to this thread tomorrow if I think I have anything useful to say that hasn't already been said by others.

To start, and because it is currently a very hot topic, are you aware of Leah Remin's A&E TV docuseries about Scientology that is airing now? The second of eight episodes aired tonight on A&E, but there are repeat performances on A&E, Lifetime, and LMN (Lifetime Movie Network). Full episodes are also available on-line:

http://www.aetv.com/shows/leah-remini-scientology-and-the-aftermath

You could start by betting him to watch that. It might also be beneficial if you watch it yourself.
 

dchoiceisalwaysrs

Gold Meritorious Patron
Hi all,

I am not an ex scientologist but my brother has been for a year. Initially it was because he moved in with his girlfriend and her parents, who are all scientologists. They got him into auditing and now he's "in love" with scientology. He's never read in his life, but has been eating up LRH's books. He relates all of his life to scientology. Recently he has broken up with his girlfriend and has left their org to move in with my other brother in another state. At this time he has not gone to their local org (we are avoiding it on purpose) but he is in communication with a Sea Org member who is calling him several times a day hounding him about getting back "on track" with his progress.

We've gotten him convinced to attend college, but meanwhile we have several months for cos to rope him back in. And he wants to go. Does anyone have advice on how to get him out? What was your "aha" moment that got you out? I'm so worried that if he gets back into the auditing they are going to label all of us as sps as I'm sure they'll interrogate what we've been filling his head with.

I will say I am amazed at how well their brainwashing works...it's incredible how narrow his vision is. There's an answer for everything which is usually "You have to read Dianetics" or "It's confidential so I don't know"

Any advice at all would be greatly appreciated!!!

So much could be said but Steve Hassan's " combatting cult mind control can be very helpful

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/173711.Combatting_Cult_Mind_Control
 

MysticSister

New Member
I have watched Going Clear and Leah's documentary...both very helpful for me! I am not certain he's ready for that yet...I feel he'd be super defensive. He wouldn't watch King of Queens because "Leah Remini is a bitch who is using scientology to make money because she wants to get famous again". Is there a "good time" to actually look at those things? I just don't want him getting mad for having him watch it and then running back to the org to make him feel better...of course if that did happen I'm sure he'd experience the auditing they discuss on the series...might be a wake up call?
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Welcome to ESMB!

Oh dear, not a good sign if he already thinks Leah is "an enemy". That's how it goes and sadly you have a fight on your hands to wake him up again. Yes the brainwashing is that good and that fast. Unfortunately the only person who can change his mind is himself and that may not happen for a while. Many people need to experience hitting rock bottom before reviewing what happened to them.

The best thing you can do for him is be there in a non-judgemental way. Have the facts but don't lecture - he won't hear you and you will become "an enemy" too - one day he will need you.

Check the many other threads on this subject, some are in the New Member's section - and good on you for caring and trying to help your brother.
 

oneonewasaracecar

Gold Meritorious Patron
One piece of advice: Don't give any more specific information which can be used to ID you. OSA is reading this thread and they are trying to figure out who you are and who he is. The more details you give, the more likely it is they can positively ID him. This may lead to disconnection.

They are trying to recruit him into the Sea Organization and they will hit him with a hard sales pitch. It will be difficult for you. There is no magic bullet. One tactic that might drive one person out might drive others in.

It is very unusual for someone to get into Scientology this late as there has been so much press in the last 5 years. He must have been extraordinarily isolated. Maybe that is your in. There is an avalanche of info out there, the difficulty is getting him to look at it.

It might be a good idea to have one person who is connected to him and non critical. If you fail to persuade him and he signs up to the Sea Org, you really want to have someone who is connected to him in case he needs to flee.

It would be good to get someone to get him to watch Going Clear or and of the docos on Scientology. It is so odd he hasn't seen any of this.
 

Demented Hubbatd

Patron with Honors
Two of my friends have spent in CoS six months each. This is not enough time to become completely brainwashed. I gave them copies of the book Messiah or Mad Man by Corridont. It was enough to prompt them to leave the cult.

However, if a person got thoroughly brainwashed by the Scientology cult, an anti-Scientology book may not be enough.
 

Knows

Gold Meritorious Patron
I have watched Going Clear and Leah's documentary...both very helpful for me! I am not certain he's ready for that yet...I feel he'd be super defensive. He wouldn't watch King of Queens because "Leah Remini is a bitch who is using scientology to make money because she wants to get famous again". Is there a "good time" to actually look at those things? I just don't want him getting mad for having him watch it and then running back to the org to make him feel better...of course if that did happen I'm sure he'd experience the auditing they discuss on the series...might be a wake up call?

He has been "indoctrinated" into Scientology and this is tough, if not impossible, to break.

I believe the best thing you could do is to say nothing and let him go. If you try to say anything about Scientology - he will disconnect and it will drive him in deeper.

Get educated and prepare yourself to protect yourself. DO NOT LEND HIM ANY MONEY NOR PROVIDE A HOME FOR HIM IF HE JOINS STAFF. Make up excuses and don't tell him it is because of Scientology - but keep it out of your family. If you have small children - educate them as to WHAT Scientology IS and what it is not.

Keep him away from all children.

Most people leave Scientology and never go back. Scientology already has hurt him in some way or he would not have left his Org.

One of the typical scenes for Scientologist's is they move around - trying various ORGS to find peace...getting manipulated, used and abused. Most people don't last long - especially if you don't give him any money or free rent.

The "defensiveness" are implanted ideas and suggestions by the Organization.
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
I suggest that you look up:

"PERSONAL INTEGRITY
BY L. RON HUBBARD

It starts out saying:

“What is true for you is what you have observed yourself. And when you lose that, you have lost everything. “

You will probably find this featured prominently on every Scientology web site.

History is full of ideologies that try to supplant an individual’s own line of thinking with another. Where Scientology is unique, is that it perfected a way of doing this in modern society where people have freedom of travel, are generally educated and have easy access to opposing information. Its one thing to get a peasant cheering for Mao and another to get an American college student cheering for LRH.

Scientology starts out appealing to a person’s sense of personal integrity. LRH praises them for being free thinkers in an age of oppression and imminent nuclear holocaust. A budding Scientologist considers themselves noble in their rebellion against the status quo.

Then from the first moment Scientology begins an immersion in techniques that cause a total reversal in personal integrity. A Scientologist is unable to question, think and speak freely. They are the ultimate conformists in the name of non-conformity.

The methods for achieving this are intricate and complex and can be expounded upon at great length but the chink in a Scientologist’s armor is that on some level they understand that they started out seeking freedom and somehow they are now less free. Scientology provides many interwoven canned reasonings for why a Scientologist should not question and conduct an open intellectual debate about Scientology but the net result is still the same - they are censored and self censoring and they know it.

LRH is held up as the pinnacle of human accomplishment and spiritual enlightenment, yet LRH is free to study opposing or other lines of thinking, to travel the world and pursue his personal goals but Scientologists who hope to become as great as LRH are expected to sacrifice everything for LRH’s goals and believe they place themselves and the world in jeopardy if they look at and consider information critical of Scientology. It’s like saying that before you can become a god you must become a worm.

If I were talking to myself when I was beginning to get into Scientology this is the conversation that I would have - I would analyze how every little thing was designed to invert my personal integrity into a subservience to LRH all the while promoting the development of personal integrity for myself.
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
Hi all,

At this time he has not gone to their local org (we are avoiding it on purpose) but he is in communication with a Sea Org member who is calling him several times a day hounding him about getting back "on track" with his progress.

Step one would be to deal with the SO guy who is calling. Does your brother initiate calls back, or does he just answer when SO guy calls? You need to figure out a way to stop this contact while your brother gets his head together. Maybe a road trip, or visit to somewhere else? The first few weeks are the critical time, which is why the SO guy is calling so frantically.
 

Adam7986

Declared SP
Rather than treating him like a Scientologist, I would suggest treating him as your brother. Level with him. Be real with him. Tell him, "Bro, you're making a terrible decision. This guy wrote sci-fi and turned it into a religion. But listen if this is what you want to do, I won't support it and they won't allow you to associate with me anymore because of that. So think long and hard about your decision, because I can't make it for you."

Something to that effect anyway.
 

Boson Wog Stark

Patron Meritorious
Any advice at all would be greatly appreciated!!!

https://www.holysmoke.org/cos/books/bare-faced-messiah.pdf

Or click HERE.

Hi Sister...the link above is to a PDF copy of Miller's bio of Hubbard called Bare-Faced Messiah you can read online or download for free. Have your brother read the intro to it and see if that makes sense to him. It explains very well what it is, and how Scientologists learn an alternate story of Hubbard's life and the development of Scientology, which differs from all the records and accounts from people who knew him, including some from his own children and wives.

Explain to your brother that Scientology is not like Christianity, which has no documentation and virtually no historical evidence that Jesus even existed. Instead, Hubbard's life and the development of Scientology are very well documented.

Throw out tidbits like, "Did they tell you that LRH had a son, Quentin, who was an expert on the tech, and spent a few years on the ship with his father during the first years of the Sea Org, but killed himself when he was 22 years old?" How could that be, that Hubbard's own son, a master of the technology, would kill himself? Some of the answer to that is found in the book.

How could a new Scientologist resist not wanting to read all about Hubbard growing up and the early years of Dianetics and the Sea Org? Well, some of them are pretty quickly indoctrinated not to believe anything a non-Scientologist says, that it is all lies.

I'm not a Scientologist and never was, but I found Miller's bio of Hubbard to be fascinating. It's wild, quirky, exciting, and a real adventure to read.

Scientology seems great at first, like it has all the answers, for someone who is young or vulnerable/gullible enough to think that. Hubbard's childhood is really fascinating also, and how reality and the Church version differ.

For example, the Church used to claim (in the early years of Scientology), in their literature, Hubbard grew up on a cattle ranch which was one quarter of Montana! That is simply not true. For one thing, duh, during that time, there were no single ranches that big in Montana.

Another approach may be to just look up Xenu on wikipedia and read and discuss together with your brother, asking him if there are any errors in it. Tell him you want to know the version he was taught, and what is the right version according to the Church. If he's knew enough, he won't be on guard against learning about Xenu.

Xenu is not unimportant. Xenu is why people have engrams, which later are called "body thetans" on the OT level. So according to Hubbard, Xenu and the evil psychiatrists are responsible for all of the problems we have. It's kind of like Christians believe that we'd all be still living in the Garden of Eden, if Eve hadn't listened to the snake and disobeyed God, bringing sin into the world. And so human beings are burdened with original sin, and flawed. (Incidentally, I don't believe that crazy either.)

Keep throwing out little things like that about Hubbard or Scientology, that you may read in Bare-Faced Messiah yourself, and all you need is to find one that interests him, enough to look further. Tell him he needs to "look at both sides," and that Hubbard himself read a lot of books of all sorts, and so why shouldn't he?

Of course, you want to be sensitive to what alienates him, and try to avoid that. But this is important. He could end up stuck in Scientology for decades, and enduring all kinds of abuse.

Someone mentioned a Hassan book, but if he totally rejects the idea that Scientology is cult-like or not, he won't read that. I like the books and YouTube talks of Sam Harris, on religion in general. His main theme is that we need to question the beliefs of all religions, and how trusting and believing can be destructive. Questioning leads to awareness, opening up, and being free of irrational fears which many religions bring. He speaks plainly and eloquently, and makes so much sense if you think about what he's saying.

It's a relief to know that a person may not have to go down the rabbit hole of a religion, forever seeking answers, which in Scientology are revealed at ever more expensive levels. If your brother isn't aware of it, inform him that packages to Flag can cost upward of $40,000, once he gets to a higher level.
 
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Enthetan

Master of Disaster
Other questions you can raise:

Regarding, the staff people in the org, especially the ones who have been in for many years, what is their auditing level? (Generally, staff don't get much auditing, so most staff will be low on the Grade Chart) If auditing is supposed to increase ability, why don't they invest the time to audit staff more?

The major vulnerability of Scientology is that it doesn't work. You don't see Scientologists being vastly more successful than non-Scientologists. The actuality is that most Scientologists are financially struggling.
 

Boson Wog Stark

Patron Meritorious
About the Sea Org guy who is calling. The next time they call and if you or another family member get to the phone first, tell them that your brother is on psychiatric medication and seeing a psychiatrist, and in a very fragile place right now, having attempted suicide recently. Scientology will want nothing to do with a person who is seeing a psychiatrist. They will cross your brother off their list forever. Yeah, I know it's all a lie but this is the one lie that will get your brother off the call list permanently.

Being polite or reasonable does not work with staff or Sea Org members who are calling to get your brother back on the bridge, or worse, into the Sea Org.

If you can't lie, just pretend you are angry out of your mind, and muster your harshest, most vile and vulgar insults and shout them at the person on the phone. Tell them to "fuck off," and that L. Ron fucking Hubbard and Scientology are full of shit, and to not call the number ever again, or "my lawyer will sue you for harassment." This worked for a friend, after getting harassed by phone calls for years. They never called again after that. Before that, he used to try to be polite and reason with them. It doesn't work. This one tirade even stopped his junk mail.

Having your brother break up with his girlfriend, get away from her Scientology family, and not being active in an org is over half the battle. Attending college can be either a big positive, or a vulnerability, if he isn't engaging with anything about his studies.

All he needs there would be to have one course where he is actively engaged in finding answers on the Internet, to understand how useful the Internet is in finding answers about Hubbard and Scientology as well.
 
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TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
Step one would be to deal with the SO guy who is calling. Does your brother initiate calls back, or does he just answer when SO guy calls? You need to figure out a way to stop this contact while your brother gets his head together. Maybe a road trip, or visit to somewhere else? The first few weeks are the critical time, which is why the SO guy is calling so frantically.

Having been a recruiter, it is extremely urgent to get the prospect closed and routed onto the EPF before they are exposed to family, friends and now the internet with critical data. Plus the recruiter is also being managed by an experienced high pressure exec or mission operations officer.

Once the recruit is routed on then they can control his/her schedule and communications, start indoctrination courses and impose penalties for wrong think. Any cash reserves get used up quickly leaving the recruit with little resources to leave.
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
Having been a recruiter, it is extremely urgent to get the prospect closed and routed onto the EPF before they are exposed to family, friends and now the internet with critical data. Plus the recruiter is also being managed by an experienced high pressure exec or mission operations officer.

Once the recruit is routed on then they can control his/her schedule and communications, start indoctrination courses and impose penalties for wrong think. Any cash reserves get used up quickly leaving the recruit with little resources to leave.

This is why it's important to disrupt their ability to pressure your brother, and why I suggested a trip. Get on the road with him. Go visit places. Visit other family. Make him impossible to reach by the SO.
 

MysticSister

New Member
Step one would be to deal with the SO guy who is calling. Does your brother initiate calls back, or does he just answer when SO guy calls? You need to figure out a way to stop this contact while your brother gets his head together. Maybe a road trip, or visit to somewhere else? The first few weeks are the critical time, which is why the SO guy is calling so frantically.[/QUOT]

ForSomeReasonMySpaceBarIsn'tWorking.DoYouMindifIPMYou?IDoNotWantToAlludeToIdentifyingInformationButHaveQuestions.Thanks!
 

Leland

Crusader
Take your brother on a day trip around your town.

Show him a ritzy neighborhood....and let him know how much the houses cost. Tell him how much the quarterly real estate taxes are.

Take him to some slums. Tell him how much it costs to live there.

Take him to the Mall. Show him how much various things cost...and what he'd have to earn to buy them.
Take him to a Car Dealership....and have him see the prices of cars.

Ask him if he'd like to have a girl friend....and how much one dinner out at a nice restaurant would cost.

Let him know that if he goes into the Sea Org.....he will learn NO SKILLs to earn a living later in life.

Let him know that College NOW.....will give him skills to earn a better living later in life.

Let him know that the Cult is "Pie in the Sky" and it is time he grew up....and became more responsible for his OWN FUTURE.

Let him know that his life is in HIS HANDS.....and that the Cult would take that all away from him .....and it might occur so slowly....( like a frog in a pot of cool water, yet to be heated ) that he might not recognize what is happening to him.

Let him know that "CULT SKILLS" are not transferable to the real world.....and his entire life is in jeopardy.....if his chooses the Cult.

Let him know that the Cult will DEMAND that he cut off all communication with his family....which they will tell him are poisonous to him.....( but in reality it is a way the Cult blocks any avenue of escape if he changes his mind....)

Let him know that any involvement with Scientology is gonna be deadly!
 

This is NOT OK !!!!

Gold Meritorious Patron
This is why it's important to disrupt their ability to pressure your brother, and why I suggested a trip. Get on the road with him. Go visit places. Visit other family. Make him impossible to reach by the SO.

This is smart.

Also use call-blocking features on your land lines and cell phones in order to reduce the in-bound calls from the recruiters.

I know it can seem hard, but you might be closer to success than you believe. Keep the pressure on.

I wish my family had pushed harder (after I got out, my brother told me that they were scared I'd stop talking to them).

Oh, but if they only had succeeded somehow.........

I spent 34 years in that fucking cult :bigcry:
 
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