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I no longer suffer because of Scientology or Scientologists. I am enlightened.

Will Fry

Patron
You guys are kidding right?

I don't know what the subculture is like here, but I'll assume there's open mindedness and humor allowed.
Someone please tell me it's sarcasm and dry humor.
I haven't been around enough to know.

If it's not, then I must throw out what will probably be an unpopular observation.
Not that I mind being a stick in the mud
Some of the posts as so "spiritually" oriented.
And by "spiritually" I mean self oriented. Still absorbed by your own internal state. Both the feeling and meaning of it.

What's the big deal about "feeling at one" or any of that equivalent mumbo. It sounds like some of the posters are going for some sort of "EP", makes one practically expect the next poster to say, "thank you, your needle is floating". Come to think of it, probably should have just wisecracked that and waited to see if it was seen as being amusing or sarcastic and invalidating.

One poster did comment on trying to become a spiritual leader os something similar here. That's similar to my point.


"Though the human condition can never be erased, it CAN be observed. And to the degree in which you do this honestly and accurately, you will rise above the effects of unconscious thought."

Uhh.. "..effects of unconscious thought" Sounds a little reactive mind-ish to me.
I thought this was a place for ex scientologists.

Scientology is so much about your internal state, levels abilities etc.
Still trying to give yourself a psychic fix of sorts, or find answers. As though despite being an Ex scn the quest can't be given a rest.
This isn't a news site, but it seems like a continuation of trying to find the answers. At least it's free.
And don't get me wrong, this isn't said in a mean spirited way, but just a observation. Good news is that it'll will be a funny and ironic bonus if some here calls me invalidating or uses a some scn term translated out in to regular human English.


And incidentally, I can't believe I'm not on the SP list. How disappointing.

I'm happy for all you guys though, you got out.

No! No! Nooooooooooooooooo!

You're wrong! And stupid! I hate you! How dare you! Don't you know who I am?! I'll show you! You'll be sorry! This isn't over! Just try that again and see what happens! I invented the ex-scientologist! I'm like a god here! I'll teach you how to show respect! You stole that line from someone else! You're fake! You could never be as cool as me! Go back to WWP! Eat shit! Die!

My friend...

I no longer suffer for lack of anyone's approval. That is the primary function of the ego -- to seek approval. And thus, it is the mission of the entire human race. See for yourself.
 

Student of Trinity

Silver Meritorious Patron
No longer suffering for lack of approval from others sounds like a huge advance. I'm much better on that one than I used to be, myself, but I guess I still have a ways to go.

I think there are probably other causes of suffering, though. Letting go of all of them is probably a longer journey. And I'm not even at all sure it's the right journey. I gather that Buddhists would say it's really the only journey, but I think there are some things worth suffering over, and to lose that capacity would be an injury, not an advance.
 
EckhartTolle- The word enlightenment conjures up the idea of some superhuman accomplishment, and the ego likes to keep it that way, but it is simply your natural state of felt oneness with Being. It is a state of connectedness with something immeasurable and indestructible, something that, almost paradoxically, is essentially you and yet is much greater than you. It is finding your true nature beyond name and form.

All the misery on the planet arises due to a personalized sense of "me" or "us." That covers up the essence of who you are. When you are unaware of that inner essence, in the end you always create misery. It's as simple as that. When you don't know who you are, you create a mind-made self as a substitute for your beautiful divine being and cling to that fearful and needy self.

Protecting and enhancing that false sense of self then becomes your primary motivating force.

http://peacefulrivers.homestead.com/EckhartTolle.html

zionriver2.JPG

Ya' know, that's a might deep fissure cut through solid rock for such a seemingly 'peaceful river'. :whistling:

Gotta' wonder about that.


Mark A. Baker :)
 

Gadfly

Crusader
EckhartTolle- The word enlightenment conjures up the idea of some superhuman accomplishment, and the ego likes to keep it that way, but it is simply your natural state of felt oneness with Being. It is a state of connectedness with something immeasurable and indestructible, something that, almost paradoxically, is essentially you and yet is much greater than you. It is finding your true nature beyond name and form.

All the misery on the planet arises due to a personalized sense of "me" or "us." That covers up the essence of who you are. When you are unaware of that inner essence, in the end you always create misery. It's as simple as that. When you don't know who you are, you create a mind-made self as a substitute for your beautiful divine being and cling to that fearful and needy self.

Protecting and enhancing that false sense of self then becomes your primary motivating force.

http://peacefulrivers.homestead.com/EckhartTolle.html

zionriver2.JPG

I have read a few books by Eckhart. I enjoyed them very much.

I resonate with his descriptions and explanation of things. But then, various eastern notions click with me - and Tolle's ideas have their basis in the East.

Also, I DO get what it means to see a blade of grass as ones equal. :omg:

"Thinking" is an active enemy of enlightenment, as almost all thinking is a by-product of the imaginary self-created ego. When one is "thinking", one is NOT "there".

The intellect and conceptual aspect of any mind have their uses, BUT, like anything, it can be beneficial to learn to be able to SHUT IT OFF at will. Few can. Internal "talking to self" (ref: P.D. Oespensky) is a chronic pattern of modern Man. In the end, it serves no actual purpose. One won't really notice just how rampant this internal yapping is until one truly sets out to effectively silence it for some initial short period of time.

++++
 

VaD

Gold Meritorious Patron
On being enlightened

Here's what Eckhart Tolle had to say about enlightenment and being enlightened (referrring to the post by Paradox in this thread earlier).

From here: http://www.inner-growth.info/power_of_now_tolle/eckhart_tolle_interview_parker.htm
( I recommend reading the whole interview, BTW)
Now the question you may ask, and perhaps have asked, is "Who realizes the stillness?" If there is no longer the personal entity there, who is it that becomes enlightened? [Laughter] One could say, of course, nobody becomes "enlightened," because it is the dissolving of the illusion of a separate "me," which is not anybody's achievement, or anybody's success. It looks as if there were a human being becoming enlightened, but that is an external appearance. What is really happening is that consciousness has withdrawn from its identification with form, and realizes its own nature. It is a "Self-realization" of consciousness. Therefore it is a cosmic event. What looks like a human being, a person, becoming free of suffering and entering a state of deep peace—from an external viewpoint—in reality is a cosmic event. Please remember that all language is limited, so these are just little "pointers."
What is "enlightenment," and why does there seem to be so much confusion about it in these times?

Well, the confusion arises because so many people write about it without knowing it directly. One can become an expert on it without knowing it directly. Because an expert means you know a lot "about" something, but you do not necessarily know "it.” Confusion arises there.

What is enlightenment? Again, it is so vast not any one definition would do it justice. It would be a tiny aspect of it. And you can look at it from so many perspectives, this one, that one, that one. And every time it looks as if it were different.

Another reason why it can be confusing is you reach one person's definition of enlightenment, he or she is looking from "this" perspective. And then you read somebody else's, and they are looking from that perspective. There's the ancient old Indian story of blind men describing an elephant, one touching the trunk, another a leg, the tail, and soon. (Laughter]

The confusion arises in trying to understand through the mind what enlightenment is. That is impossible. Any description is only a signpost. So the mind can only go a certain way, and then the signpost has to be left behind. And the mind gets attached to a signpost, which is a teaching or description, a concept. And then confusion arises because then it sees another signpost and says, "Oh, maybe that is the true one." It becomes defensive, identities with "this one" and says that's me.

So, to the question. "What is enlightenment?" one could say simply, it is when there is no longer any identification with thinking. When there is no longer self-identification with thought processes and self-seeking through thinking. Then the compulsive nature of thinking ceases. Then gaps arise in the mind-stream. That means the unconditioned consciousness arises and is realized as stillness or presence. There is nobody there who "realizes." It is realized. It realizes itself. [Chuckle]
 

VaD

Gold Meritorious Patron
Ok. I admit that I might be "under influence" of Tolle's teachings now. - Can't argue about that.

Yet, to me what he says rings the bell. In fact, even before Scn, I had those ideas that Tolle expresses so well.
I liked Tao and Zen (before I even got involved into Scn).

To me, Tolle's words are revealing what I've been hiding from myself for so long.
- Simple truths that have been around all the time.
:blush:
 

EP - Ethics Particle

Gold Meritorious Patron
The "veering flaw" of language...

Cult... No cult... It matters not.

The problem was not Scientology. The problem was me. And will always be.

Though the human condition can never be erased, it CAN be observed. And to the degree in which you do this honestly and accurately, you will rise above the effects of unconscious thought.

I feel unbelievably lucky to be able to demonstrate this concept at age 30. And then I observe myself "feeling lucky" and realize it's just more ego-imposed noise. Which helps me return to the present moment. And then the real fun begins.

real fun > feeling lucky

Excellent! I understand where you are coming from. :)

.

Will, I hope you aren't trying to become another srititual teacher here (hope not).
- Some of your words sound like of one of them .

I've been fartin' around with this ESMB thing for over 3 years now, I reckon...and it has been and is, useful, enjoyable and hopefully I've provided something positive to others along the way. :confused2:

To me it seems to run in cycles, or spirals...a thread progresses to what I loosely call "the limits of language" and there sorta disperses and lolls around for a while not going in any particular direction..just kinda drifting around. :)

So you see it is a rather specious and perhaps perilous thing to try to advance beyond that nebulous juncture via "language". :melodramatic:

But then, I have said too much already! :duh:

Some "get it". :eyeroll:

"The losers cry deal! deal! - while the winners pick their teeth." :whistling:

EP
 

VaD

Gold Meritorious Patron
I've been fartin' around with this ESMB thing for over 3 years now, I reckon...and it has been and is, useful, enjoyable and hopefully I've provided something positive to others along the way. :confused2:

To me it seems to run in cycles, or spirals...a thread progresses to what I loosely call "the limits of language" and there sorta disperses and lolls around for a while not going in any particular direction..just kinda drifting around. :)

So you see it is a rather specious and perhaps perilous thing to try to advance beyond that nebulous juncture via "language". :melodramatic:

But then, I have said too much already! :duh:

Some "get it". :eyeroll:

"The losers cry deal! deal! - while the winners pick their teeth." :whistling:

EP

And it's great to have you here, EP! (Just like many other "old timers" - meaning those who have disentangled).

Just because you, having disentangled yourself(-ves) from the web of lies, can point to others what they need to SEE (outside the box).

- That's why this board is important!

Disentanglement comes in stages (or "layers", some would say). To an outsider, it might look like a spiral - something repeating itself every loop (every now and then).

Anyway, it is what it is.

The task of helping others to SEE is worth it. - Even if you "just" want to live in the better world. - Even if "the world" for you means only a community around you.

Just taking part in the motion is worth it. It benefits one more than he *thinks*.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Ok. I admit that I might be "under influence" of Tolle's teachings now. - Can't argue about that.

Yet, to me what he says rings the bell. In fact, even before Scn, I had those ideas that Tolle expresses so well.
I liked Tao and Zen (before I even got involved into Scn).

To me, Tolle's words are revealing what I've been hiding from myself for so long.
- Simple truths that have been around all the time.
:blush:

Tolle says it all VERY WELL! :thumbsup:

No need to add anything, other than that Hubbard, while pretending to go in a similar direction, did NOT do so with his subject of Scientology. Why? Because, involvement with Scientology creates a HUGE world of NEW identifications, significances and thinkingness.

++++++++++++++
 
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Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
Tolle says it all VERY WELL! :thumbsup:

No need to add anything, other than that Hubbard, while pretending to go in a similar direction, did NOT do so with his subject of Scientology. Why? Because, involvement with Scientology creates a HUGE world of NEW identifications, significancs and thinkingness.

++++++++++++++

I haven't read Tolle, but after the endorsements on this thread I think I will. Re: Hubbard though: for me the place where Hubbard missed the boat was deciding that his "case" = everyone else's. Instead of establishing guidelines he set a route in stone. Maybe it's just my "ego" speaking here, but I'm not like anyone else. The combination of my experiences is uniquely my own, and any approach to my spiritual health has to reflect that.

Oh and btw, welcome Will. :)
 

VaD

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Hubbard though: for me the place where Hubbard missed the boat was deciding that his "case" = everyone else's. Instead of establishing guidelines he set a route in stone. Maybe it's just my "ego" speaking here, but I'm not like anyone else. The combination of my experiences is uniquely my own, and any approach to my spiritual health has to reflect that.

Yes, there is that particlular oddity to Scn... that everyone is like a "standard model for standard actions" (which is STUPID).
- Well, we believed that our problems were, "essentially the same", and we ourselves endorsed undergoing those standard procedures (same for everyone).
 

Gadfly

Crusader
I haven't read Tolle, but after the endorsements on this thread I think I will. Re: Hubbard though: for me the place where Hubbard missed the boat was deciding that his "case" = everyone else's. Instead of establishing guidelines he set a route in stone. Maybe it's just my "ego" speaking here, but I'm not like anyone else. The combination of my experiences is uniquely my own, and any approach to my spiritual health has to reflect that.

Oh and btw, welcome Will. :)

I agree that he most certainly did take examinations of his own "case", extrapolated those to others in some wild process of transference, saw "himself in everybody else", and made HIS one-size-fit-all.

But, Hubbard "missed the boat" in MANY ways. There is no "one" way in how Hubbard screwed everything up. As the birlliant effusive EGO that he was, he "missed the boat" MANY TIMES, in many BIG WAYS, often.

And yes, in my opinion, for this fellow (me) who does NOT accept a "one-size-fits-all approach to spirituality, Tolle is GREAT! :yes:

+++++++
 
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Jquepublic

Silver Meritorious Patron
Yes, there is that particlular oddity to Scn... that everyone is like a "standard model for standard actions" (which is STUPID).
- Well, we believed that our problems were, "essentially the same", and we ourselves endorsed undergoing those standard procedures (same for everyone).

Well, I hoped. I hoped that it was true, I hoped that it would work, I hoped that it would solve the problems that brought me there in the first place. One of the biggest betrayals, IMO, was that my hope had been perverted and twisted into something that was used against me. I stopped agreeing when I started seeing that.
 

VaD

Gold Meritorious Patron
Well, I hoped. I hoped that it was true, I hoped that it would work, I hoped that it would solve the problems that brought me there in the first place. One of the biggest betrayals, IMO, was that my hope had been perverted and twisted into something that was used against me. I stopped agreeing when I started seeing that.

It's great that you see it now.

- Your message was all in the past tense. I believe you have a different view now.
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
Hubbard's insistence on a complex hierarchy of types of issues that must be applied to everyone in a uniform template contradicts even his own words about complexity being equivalent to lack of understanding.

The commonality between issues addressed is "charge". It can be as simple as that. The creation of complexity and mystery resulted in INCOME for Hubbard as guru and for his organizations, but is a disservice to seekers after truth and relief from charge.
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
I am old enough that, when I hear [laughter] and [chuckles] among an audience listening to a lecture by somebody who has got it all figured out and is sharing their knowledge, I just want to fade away.

I'm long done with being part of a group that -- upon the leader's subtle signal -- laughs or chuckles in agreement or admiration.

Gurus, groups and me -- not so much. In fact, not for nearly 25 years.

TG1
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Hubbard's insistence on a complex hierarchy of types of issues that must be applied to everyone in a uniform template contradicts even his own words about complexity being equivalent to lack of understanding.

Hubbard did THAT often - contradicted data as compared to other data within the same subject, and also he forwarded behaviors that often contradicted the data itself.

Such is the amazingly CONTRADICTORY world of Hubbard's ideas.

+++++++++++
 
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