I still don't get it with the Ideal Orgs

The reason ideal orgs are so interesting to me have more to do with legal considerations. I notice that these buildings are all owned by ad hoc corporations and not by Buidling Management Services. Why is that so? Given the value of these buildings, this is a pretty major shift in coporporate structure.

Miscavige is just protecting his personal empire just like his mentor did, Hubbard claimed the money he scammed from the cult came from sales of his painful lame science fiction, Miscavige will claim the money he scammed from the cult came from his real estate investments.
 

KnightVision

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yes. It's the easy way out of having to actually use logic.
-snip
Some people try to invalidate Scientology by attacking its creator. Why? To me, the only thing that makes a subject valid is DOES IT WORK? If it does, I don’t care about what the inventor did, or if he lied about being a nuclear physicist, of if there are questions about his military record. The point of Scientology is not to worship its inventor. He was just a man, with a temper and faults just like the rest of us.
-snip-
So, per Thoughtful, it really doesn't matter who invented something, or if they have a degree or not, etc. It's all about the "product" and if it works. I can see how that would be alright if you were buying a car or a TV. Who cares, it works right?

Well, IMO, that only goes so far. When you're talking about solutions for the mind or spirituality, would you buy that service or product if the creator was a complete mad man? There's a big difference between cars and the mind. Scientologists, and at least the above writer, don't seem to see that difference. Sure, they might be having "wins," but in the general scheme of things, what are those individual "wins" actually leading to, or adding up to in the long run?
-snip

Here's a response from Marty Rathbun from a conversation we were having on Facebook. I asked him if he had ever read Hubbard's "Affirmations" or if he knew about any of Hubbard's true history as opposed to the false PR that the Church had been pumping out for years. Here's his reply:

"I've read far more negative information about Hubbard than you can imagine. And I read it twenty years ago. Was always able to differentiate between a person and a product. I'm not going to waste your time or mine trying to convince you of anything - we're grown ups and view the glass as we view it. Good luck."

Throw logic and science out the window.

Nice post bts,

The number of times that I've read posts by people stating that 'If it works... Who cares....?" is ludicrous!

The folks who write this garbage fail to see that they are talking about 'a return of self determinism' that is married to 1) My return of self determinism is directly related to riding myself of alien beings from influencing me. 2) This is THE only way to regain self determinism. 3) I must shut my eyes and mouth about looking at the myriad of ways to improve self determinism that have no connection to Sci. 4) It's irrelevant whether LRH was a con man and of no consequence to investigate further if he had ALSO implanted me with a lot of other thought restricting, intelligence reducing concepts while practicing his techniques that deliver 'self determinism'.

Even the car analogy is requires one to LOWER HIS STANDARDS! A car works???? How so? It rolls about on gas... OHHHH.... BFD!!!

Does it last 5 years? 10? 15? AND what types of repairs are necessary during it's 'life-span'? Cars are one of the biggest rip-offs that exist... A vehicle can easily be made to run on far less fuel and be constructed of materials and parts that could far outlast what buyers are 'used to' and accept as 'the norm'.

So it goes with Sci... 'the tech' is IMO purposely laid out so as to cause a person to invest unnecessary time and money to achieve what are simply, easy to accomplish improvements. There is nothing 'special' or 'inordinately valuable' about the ACTUAL RESULTS that Sci offers. HOWEVER, the simple results that it can deliver come with a covert, subversive influence upon the adept that causes far more problems and limitations than the benefits received.
 

Spirited

Patron with Honors
I accept your argument but at the end of the day these people who are handing over money must have to stop and think before handing over the money and if they stop and think then what is wrong with their thinking process? They all know it to be true that GAT and The Basics have not increased their membership, have not got their old Orgs any fuller, that there are lots of Ideal Orgs around but they don't read of any of them bursting at the seams and making the staff money from any of their own internal publications, nor by word of mouth from other Orgs, so surely they can evaluate data to the extent that they will conclude that it is better to keep the money in their pockets. I won't even pay 30 Euros for a stainless steel serving tray without doing some extensive checking. So why do these people hand over tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars when just a little thought will tell them them it is all lose and no gain? I don't get it! I don't - I just don't! :no:
because some have more money than sense? no only kidding. I really dont know, I have been shaking my head over it also.

And they arent just called ideal orgs now, According to a recent impact magazine they are now IAS SPONSORED STRATEGIC IDEAL ORGS. the IAS has gone into overdrive on the big push on getting everyone to move up to their next level to help fund these ias sponsored strategic ideal orgs. that tells me that the direct dono's for ideal orgs have slowed up so now DM is using a different avenue and angle for the money.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
When IDEAL ORGS fail.....

COB SPEECHWRITER: "Sir, the Ideal Orgs program has errrrr....not actually produced the international stat boom that you asked me to write about for the big event."

COB: (looks at crashed graphs) "So you are saying the DB public are in non-compliance with my orders to flood into the new buildings?! That's out ethics!"

COB SPEECHWRITER: "Well, sir, the public is...uhhh, not exactly on board quite yet with the concept of following orders."

COB: "I WANT THAT SPEECH ON MY DESK BY 2 O'CLOCK OR IT WILL BE YOUR HEAD ON A PIKE!"

COB SPEECHWRITER: "Yes sir, I'll write it! People lining up for blocks waiting to pay for their entire Bridge, just as you predicted."

COB: "Fine. But with that kind of unprecedented demand, let them know we are forced to raise the prices again!"
 
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RosyGlass

Patron with Honors
Best quote in Nancy Many’s book: Page 109: “When you wake up with
your head inside a tiger’s mouth, you remove it very slowly.”

Wikipedia, DoubleThink: Orwell’s 1984

“Orwell explains that the Party could not protect its iron power without degrading its people with constant propaganda. Yet, knowledge of this brutal deception, even within the Inner Party itself, could lead to disgusted collapse of the State from within. For this reason, the government uses a complex system of reality control. Though Nineteen Eighty-Four is most famous for the Party's pervasive surveillance of everyday life, reality control means that the population of Oceania — all of it, including the ruling élite — could be controlled and manipulated merely through the alteration of everyday thought and language. Newspeak is the method for controlling thought through language; doublethink is the method of directly controlling thought.

Paradoxically, during the long and harrowing process in which Winston is systematically tortured and broken, he contemplates using doublethink as the ultimate recourse in his rebellion - i.e. to let himself become consciously a loyal party member while letting his hatred of the party remain an unconscious presence deep in his mind, and let it surface again at the very moment of his execution so that "the bullet would enter a free mind" which the Thought Police would not have a chance to tamper with again."

I'll say it as often as I need to, impervious to flaming. Most people need professional help in de-brainwashing and few Scientologists get it. In Scn, most leave because they become aware of or experience crimes and abuses in management, completely in denial that their core beliefs were central to a money making con, much less mental experimentation.

Support groups are very helpful, but only in conjunction with professional help, and places like ESMB are, unfortunately, also infiltrated with those who would take advantage of those in their most vulnerable states of mind.

Vultures or Vampires. You decide.
 

pollywannacracker

Patron Meritorious
Could it be to give the impression of expansion when it's not really taking place in reality?

I think you hit the nail on the head so to speak, FG.

Look at all the glossy pictures that are posted in the mags that the church sends out incessantly.

Only a few of those who are in the "ideal orgs" are public. The rest are staff and SO sent to promote the "illusion" of full orgs. This is what scientologists see. This is what they believe because if it is written it is true.

So they think that all the other "ideal orgs" are booming. They then don't dwell as much on the fact that their "ideal org" is moving against the grain. Scientology is EXPANDING. That is what is promoted and written about, so it must be true.

Afterall, DM and his management cronies wouldn't lie - or would they. :D
 

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
Expansion

I think you hit the nail on the head so to speak, FG.

Look at all the glossy pictures that are posted in the mags that the church sends out incessantly.

Only a few of those who are in the "ideal orgs" are public. The rest are staff and SO sent to promote the "illusion" of full orgs. This is what scientologists see. This is what they believe because if it is written it is true.

So they think that all the other "ideal orgs" are booming. They then don't dwell as much on the fact that their "ideal org" is moving against the grain. Scientology is EXPANDING. That is what is promoted and written about, so it must be true.

Afterall, DM and his management cronies wouldn't lie - or would they. :D


Scientologically speaking, Cof$ IS expanding, its just that you seem to have a hidden standard as to what is meant by expansion. Scientology ALWAYS expands, by definition ... even when it is expanding in an increasingly smaller and smaller inward direction.

Pete
 

pollywannacracker

Patron Meritorious
Scientologically speaking, Cof$ IS expanding, its just that you seem to have a hidden standard as to what is meant by expansion. Scientology ALWAYS expands, by definition ... even when it is expanding in an increasingly smaller and smaller inward direction.

Pete

Good point Pete.

There is an expansion in the ex-scio community. Those who are looking to leave or have left - that IS is expanding.

Their profits are expanding due to the constant push for OTVIII donations.

But their expansion in numbers/members is the reverse of expansion. That would be contraction. But the speed of that contraction is expanding. :D
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
From another thread on the same subject:

Personally, I think the rationale behind the IAS-sponsored Ideal Orgs is something to do with the new, very (and only) important Expansion stat: Number of square feet/metres of scientology owned space.

It's how they think you win a game.
You must occupy the opponent's space.

More importantly, this is how they make themselves (and Dave) right about "more expansion in the last 5 years than in the previous 50".
The expansion they're talking about is floor-space!

PS: The outpoint, Dave, is that one could hardly call the Ideal Orgs "occupied space".
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Good Post

Nice post bts,

The number of times that I've read posts by people stating that 'If it works... Who cares....?" is ludicrous!

The folks who write this garbage fail to see that they are talking about 'a return of self determinism' that is married to 1) My return of self determinism is directly related to riding myself of alien beings from influencing me. 2) This is THE only way to regain self determinism. 3) I must shut my eyes and mouth about looking at the myriad of ways to improve self determinism that have no connection to Sci. 4) It's irrelevant whether LRH was a con man and of no consequence to investigate further if he had ALSO implanted me with a lot of other thought restricting, intelligence reducing concepts while practicing his techniques that deliver 'self determinism'.

Even the car analogy is requires one to LOWER HIS STANDARDS! A car works???? How so? It rolls about on gas... OHHHH.... BFD!!!

Does it last 5 years? 10? 15? AND what types of repairs are necessary during it's 'life-span'? Cars are one of the biggest rip-offs that exist... A vehicle can easily be made to run on far less fuel and be constructed of materials and parts that could far outlast what buyers are 'used to' and accept as 'the norm'.

So it goes with Sci... 'the tech' is IMO purposely laid out so as to cause a person to invest unnecessary time and money to achieve what are simply, easy to accomplish improvements. There is nothing 'special' or 'inordinately valuable' about the ACTUAL RESULTS that Sci offers. HOWEVER, the simple results that it can deliver come with a covert, subversive influence upon the adept that causes far more problems and limitations than the benefits received.

Good post Knight Vision!

I think that the type of vices a person has and the field in which he is acting as a guru plays a big role in whether to judge the person by results only. Take the field of classical music, Mozart is alledged by some to have drunk booze a lot, gambled and had extra marital affairs. None of this is fully verified but is speculation. If one loves his music, what difference would it make if those allegations were true, just enjoy the music. Richard Wagner, on the other hand was anti-semitic. This endeared him to Hitler and the Nazis but some altruistic people and some Jews will not listen to his music, even though they think it is beautiful. I can sympathize with those people although I myself still will listen to Wagner and enjoy it. Music is music and a musicians personal background usually does not determine if people are willing to enjoy good music, with Wagner being a counter example.

In the field of Ethics, Morals, Philosophy and Religion, I think the character of the leader, the guru so to speak, is more important. I would think twice now about following Hubbard's books on Marriage and the Family and the raising of children since his personal stats in these areas are extremely poor. Of his first two children, Nibs became an enemy and Katie was just dropped and never mentioned. He probably never spoke to her and while she was growing up he was in New York City as a writer having affairs with women while he was still married. He disowned his 3rd child, Alexis and claimed she was not his child and then did not communicate to Marry Sue or his four children with for the last 5 years of his life. I would never listen to any LRH data on how to raise a family based on his own terrible performance.

When it came down to codes of honor, codes of behavior and so forth, even if the man was a scoundrel, I can see still using the codes if they are workable but with one big condition, that being that the originator of the codes followed them himself!

LRH did not follow his codes himself. Just look at the conditions formulas. Per his taped lectures and his writings, any being must write up his hats, make his post comfortable for a successor to take over and then continue doing a Power Change Formula. LRH just left us cold with no instructions or post assignments or "R Factors" to his staff and public as to what should happen upon his demise. JUST LOOK HOW THINGS HAVE DEVELOPED BECAUSE HE FAILED TO IMPLEMENT HIS OWN POLICY. On my stint on the Apollo, Ron's home and the most sane spot in the universe, he appointed me to two posts, one was to be on the telephone all day long getting price quotes in Portugese though I knew not one word of the language. My other posting was to the Programs Bureau where I was to write Evals to help CCLA to grow but I had never done the Data Evaluator's Course. Neither job even had any hat write up and I was given the one word, "Start!" on both posts. The man did not follow any of his own policies and was willing to destroy my life through his negligent actions with not the slightest care of the effects he was causing on me and many others who experienced my same fate.

When I complained that I was not hatted, my Seniors told me that I was a Sea Org member and was expected to do anything assigned me. With no comm lag or prior thought, I immediately countered that why can't someone untrained be posted to be a Class VIII auditor and just be told to start, why was my situation any different. The weak robotic seniors were just stopped dead in their tracks, looking like deer who had been caught in the headlights of a car, and comm lagged for a full 3 or 4 seconds before one of the Ronbots started yelling that I was just nattering and I was told to write up my overts. NO MATTER HOW WELL SOME POLICIES WORKED WHY WOULD ANYONE SUCH AS ME EVER AGREE TO FOLLOW LRH POLICES AGAIN?

Well, I got carried away, but I think you get my point.
Lakey
 

RolandRB

Rest in Peace
because some have more money than sense? no only kidding. I really dont know, I have been shaking my head over it also.

And they arent just called ideal orgs now, According to a recent impact magazine they are now IAS SPONSORED STRATEGIC IDEAL ORGS. the IAS has gone into overdrive on the big push on getting everyone to move up to their next level to help fund these ias sponsored strategic ideal orgs. that tells me that the direct dono's for ideal orgs have slowed up so now DM is using a different avenue and angle for the money.

But DM must know these Ideal Orgs are empty. He must know that GAT and The Basics are not filling old Orgs nor the new Ideal Orgs. He must know that large empty Orgs are going to cost the parishioners money for upkeep that they can ill afford. So why is this drive continuing ever stronger? Is it just a scheme to fleece money off the chumps with an aim to selling the real estate and pocketing the profits at some time in the future?
 

KnightVision

Gold Meritorious Patron
Good post Knight Vision!

I think that the type of vices a person has and the field in which he is acting as a guru plays a big role in whether to judge the person by results only. Take the field of classical music, Mozart is alledged by some to have drunk booze a lot, gambled and had extra marital affairs. None of this is fully verified but is speculation. If one loves his music, what difference would it make if those allegations were true, just enjoy the music. Richard Wagner, on the other hand was anti-semitic. This endeared him to Hitler and the Nazis but some altruistic people and some Jews will not listen to his music, even though they think it is beautiful. I can sympathize with those people although I myself still will listen to Wagner and enjoy it. Music is music and a musicians personal background usually does not determine if people are willing to enjoy good music, with Wagner being a counter example.

In the field of Ethics, Morals, Philosophy and Religion, I think the character of the leader, the guru so to speak, is more important. I would think twice now about following Hubbard's books on Marriage and the Family and the raising of children since his personal stats in these areas are extremely poor. Of his first two children, Nibs became an enemy and Katie was just dropped and never mentioned. He probably never spoke to her and while she was growing up he was in New York City as a writer having affairs with women while he was still married. He disowned his 3rd child, Alexis and claimed she was not his child and then did not communicate to Marry Sue or his four children with for the last 5 years of his life. I would never listen to any LRH data on how to raise a family based on his own terrible performance.

When it came down to codes of honor, codes of behavior and so forth, even if the man was a scoundrel, I can see still using the codes if they are workable but with one big condition, that being that the originator of the codes followed them himself!

LRH did not follow his codes himself. Just look at the conditions formulas. Per his taped lectures and his writings, any being must write up his hats, make his post comfortable for a successor to take over and then continue doing a Power Change Formula. LRH just left us cold with no instructions or post assignments or "R Factors" to his staff and public as to what should happen upon his demise. JUST LOOK HOW THINGS HAVE DEVELOPED BECAUSE HE FAILED TO IMPLEMENT HIS OWN POLICY. On my stint on the Apollo, Ron's home and the most sane spot in the universe, he appointed me to two posts, one was to be on the telephone all day long getting price quotes in Portugese though I knew not one word of the language. My other posting was to the Programs Bureau where I was to write Evals to help CCLA to grow but I had never done the Data Evaluator's Course. Neither job even had any hat write up and I was given the one word, "Start!" on both posts. The man did not follow any of his own policies and was willing to destroy my life through his negligent actions with not the slightest care of the effects he was causing on me and many others who experienced my same fate.

When I complained that I was not hatted, my Seniors told me that I was a Sea Org member and was expected to do anything assigned me. With no comm lag or prior thought, I immediately countered that why can't someone untrained be posted to be a Class VIII auditor and just be told to start, why was my situation any different. The weak robotic seniors were just stopped dead in their tracks, looking like deer who had been caught in the headlights of a car, and comm lagged for a full 3 or 4 seconds before one of the Ronbots started yelling that I was just nattering and I was told to write up my overts. NO MATTER HOW WELL SOME POLICIES WORKED WHY WOULD ANYONE SUCH AS ME EVER AGREE TO FOLLOW LRH POLICES AGAIN?

Well, I got carried away, but I think you get my point.
Lakey

Hey Lakey,

Thanks, that was great! If this is getting 'carried away'... do it as often as possible! :)
 

KnightVision

Gold Meritorious Patron
But DM must know these Ideal Orgs are empty. He must know that GAT and The Basics are not filling old Orgs nor the new Ideal Orgs. He must know that large empty Orgs are going to cost the parishioners money for upkeep that they can ill afford. So why is this drive continuing ever stronger? Is it just a scheme to fleece money off the chumps with an aim to selling the real estate and pocketing the profits at some time in the future?

IMO, that's one significant point.

Another is to 'show' the authorities that Sci is 'working'... cause they know that the gov't is watching with all the exposure of criminal intent that's surfaced over the years.

Yet another is to 'show' adepts that all the money 'isn't just being' funneled into DM's vacation account.

Again another is to lure in new public who would 'assume' the Sci is legit and doing well with such impressive buildings.

And last but not least... DM's 'achievements look impressive to himself. he may well NEED these structures to assume that he is 'achieving' something!
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Idea Orgs is a magic act.

Eager ticket-buying Scientologists are seated in the audience. DM is on stage a top hat, tails and a magic wand, assisted by his Sea Org helpers.

The magician will now demonstrate supernatural powers. All of Scientology is likewise a magic show to make the audience believe that they have witnessed the natural laws of the physical world transcended.

Scientology illusion works only if the audience sees with their own eyes the impossibilities of ever soaring graphs, people across the globe clamoring for the tech in endlessly surging demands, ordinary humans elevated to cosmic capacity, spiritual palaces of worship suddenly materializing out of thin air....

The audience watches as the performance unfolds. They ritualistically expect and receive the impossible---a miracle. They gasp and scream their amazement with heartfelt applause....and appreciation.

The audience members are the chosen ones who God has selected to see what one one else can see. They are profoundly gratified to have been blessed by this holy event.

So, when they are asked to be part of the next magic show--to assist the high priests in making a building appear out nowhwere, they cannot think of any greater sacred honor.

That is pretty much why they donate like hypnotized zombies to Ideal Orgs.
 
IMO, that's one significant point.

Another is to 'show' the authorities that Sci is 'working'... cause they know that the gov't is watching with all the exposure of criminal intent that's surfaced over the years.

Yet another is to 'show' adepts that all the money 'isn't just being' funneled into DM's vacation account.

Again another is to lure in new public who would 'assume' the Sci is legit and doing well with such impressive buildings.

And last but not least... DM's 'achievements look impressive to himself. he may well NEED these structures to assume that he is 'achieving' something!

I don't think there is any doubt that the goal is to move the assets into a shell corporation owner by Miscavige and a few cronies, so when the shit hits the fan, the few people running the cult end up with all the assets.

Why wouldn't Miscavige force the cult members to donate money for him to purchase real estate in his name so he can then lease to the church?

What possible reason would Miscavige have to treat Scientologists as anything but idiots, when treating Scientologists like idiots worked so well for Hubbard?
 

Spirited

Patron with Honors
But DM must know these Ideal Orgs are empty. He must know that GAT and The Basics are not filling old Orgs nor the new Ideal Orgs. He must know that large empty Orgs are going to cost the parishioners money for upkeep that they can ill afford. So why is this drive continuing ever stronger? Is it just a scheme to fleece money off the chumps with an aim to selling the real estate and pocketing the profits at some time in the future?
Of course he knows that the stats on tech delivery and bodys in the shop are tragic but is operating on a fixed idea.
Again i think KV has some good points that fall in line with what i was told once.
I was told once whilst having a discussion about the ideal org donation saga when it first started that it had to be done because people judge you by your "appearance" and if you want government officials or the OLs to come into your org and look around or do services, or even use your boardroom or facilities etc, that they would only reach if the premises matched their reality. and that the orgs in current state werent good enough in appearance to invite or attract the upstat OL public. pretty stupid thing to say considering how many of us have done services in the old orgs? what wre we? rubbish? According to that conversation, an organization is judged on how "wealthy" it looks. you cant invite the president to a shitty old building now can you?

On the donations front, DM is a guy that has absolutely NO reality on the real world and what its like to live in it and work and earn money. He has lived in a scientology bubble all his life, paying himself a pretty good salary that others have brought into the organization, but has never had to get out in the real world and create it for himself.
IMO He doesnt see that regging the shit out of his parishioners is a problem because he is totally indoctrinated on the LRH stuff like money problems are just your "bank", "considerations" "counter intention", "being reasonable" etc blah blah and he really has the viewpoint that its the publics responsibility and duty to fork out.
Its all wrong but he has gone too far to turn around and do an about face now and say , sorry guys I was wrong and the new buildings strategy is not working. he has to be right!! He is the leader and is expected to know what he is doing. so the lie will perpetuate and its a case of "fake it till ya make it". it is all about appearance not products. :omg: thats my take on it but Who knows what he really thinks behind closed doors.
 
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lkwdblds

Crusader
Its great to hear some inside information!

Of course he knows that the stats on tech delivery and bodys in the shop are tragic but is operating on a fixed idea.
Again i think KV has some good points that fall in line with what i was told once.
I was told once whilst having a discussion about the ideal org donation saga when it first started that it had to be done because people judge you by your "appearance" and if you want government officials or the OLs to come into your org and look around or do services, or even use your boardroom or facilities etc, that they would only reach if the premises matched their reality. and that the orgs in current state werent good enough in appearance to invite or attract the upstat OL public. pretty stupid thing to say considering how many of us have done services in the old orgs? what wre we? rubbish? According to that conversation, an organization is judged on how "wealthy" it looks. you cant invite the president to a shitty old building now can you?

On the donations front, DM is a guy that has absolutely NO reality on the real world and what its like to live in it and work and earn money. He has lived in a scientology bubble all his life, paying himself a pretty good salary that others have brought into the organization, but has never had to get out in the real world and create it for himself.
IMO He doesnt see that regging the shit out of his parishioners is a problem because he is totally indoctrinated on the LRH stuff like money problems are just your "bank", "considerations" "counter intention", "being reasonable" etc blah blah and he really has the viewpoint that its the publics responsibility and duty to fork out.
Its all wrong but he has gone too far to turn around and do an about face now and say , sorry guys I was wrong and the new buildings strategy is not working. he has to be right!! He is the leader and is expected to know what he is doing. so the lie will perpetuate and its a case of "fake it till ya make it". it is all about appearance not products. :omg: thats my take on it but Who knows what he really thinks behind closed doors.

Spirited, Your information really has the ring to it of coming directly from inside of the Church. Without info like this, all the rest of us can do is speculate albeit, several of the speculations posted here are very inspired.

I just had a question and wanted to make a comment or two. The question has to do with the two separtate tiiers of asking for donations. Typically, around 6 million dollars is asked for to obtain or procure the "ideal Org building" and then a period ensues when the Org's staff and public engage in spirited rallies and phone and mail campaigns and fairly quickly they meet this goal. About one month goes by and the parishioners are allowed to celebrate their win and talk about how great it will be when the building opens.

About one month later a bomb is dropped on the public and water is poured on their parade. They are now told that there is a furnishing and design stage and they now have to collect another 4 million dollars. At this stage, many of the donors have already mortgaged their houses and cashed in their stocks and have cut back on their style of living and they cannot approach the task of raising another 4 million with the same enthusiasm they had the first time around. In the case of many Ideal Orgs, Orange County, CA being a prime example, the second phase of donations dies out and the building just sits there year after year, not getting designed or furnished and is only used as a hall to stage special events about once a month.

Meanwhile the Org's older premises has stopped being created in anticipation of moving to the new quarters several years back. The gardeners and maintenance crews are long abandoned so the Org's original premises begins to look shabby and run down, needing new paint and repairs and considerble landscaping work, including just mowing its lawn.

My question is, "Is this two tiered system of asking for donations twice, part of the official policy planned by management?" From my observation, management would have been much better off just asking for one large donation of $10 million all at once. The chances of moving into the building would have been much greater! Management's gut feelings and their methods used to fleece their publics are not even very well conceived and lead to a "no win - no win" system where there are no winners.

The best way to really use managements talents or the lack thereof, would be to have DM and management formulate a detailed program of how to proceed and then DO EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE STEPS OF WHAT THEY PROPOSE. I can guarantee that the results would be much much better for all concerned even including management.
Lakey
 
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Spirited

Patron with Honors
[FONT=&quot]Hey Lakey,
per this "Is this two tiered system of asking for donations twice, part of the official policy planned by management?"
I wouldnt have a clue. I know that in anzo we always used to get regged heavily for something and after we thought it was all done and dusted there would be the next thing...and then the next thing.....and then the next thing. It was always like that. there was always some flap or program that had to be handled with donations. It was one after the other continuously. IAS mainly.
I stopped answering my phone a long time ago. It was ridiculous. but I have been told that they raised the money for the building and purchased it and now they are asking for dono's for renovations. thats In [/FONT][FONT=&quot]melbourne[/FONT][FONT=&quot] and that seems two tiered like you say but I dont see it as just two tiered, i see it as on going, continuous, never ending “open your wallet!! Thank you” saga that I cant see an end to.
[/FONT]
 
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lkwdblds

Crusader
Don't some Orgs actually become occupied?

[FONT=&quot]Hey Lakey,
per this "Is this two tiered system of asking for donations twice, part of the official policy planned by management?"
I wouldnt have a clue. I know that in anzo we always used to get regged heavily for something and after we thought it was all done and dusted there would be the next thing...and then the next thing.....and then the next thing. It was always like that. there was always some flap or program that had to be handled with donations. It was one after the other continuously. IAS mainly.
I stopped answering my phone a long time ago. It was ridiculous. I left around the time that ideal org stuff all started but from what I hear, they raised the money for the building and purchased it and now they are asking for dono's for renovations. thats In [/FONT][FONT=&quot]melbourne[/FONT][FONT=&quot] and that seems two tiered but I dont see it as just two tiered, i see it as on going, continuous, never ending “open your wallet!! Thank you” saga that I cant see an end to.[/FONT]

Spirited - Its great talking with you on this topic. I understand the tier system of more than two tiers, or endless tiers. That would be a sort of harmonic on the way the "Bridge to Total Freedom" is set up. When I got in, in 1970, it appeared to me that after attaining OT 8, Class 8 that one would be done with training and processing. Obviously there were other services available, such as the L's Rundowns. the Data Evaluators course and many specialty type courses but these were not done on the official bridge and the official bridge had a finite end.

While LRH was still alive, he took care of the finite end part. His comments on one his New Years Ron's Journal messages stated that OT Levels up to OT 15 were now fully developed and in the process of being written up but that, of course, they were too dangerous to release in the societies of Earth because of the extremely low condition of civilization on this planet. This action alone, done by LRH and not DM, but a huge carrot on a stick to dangle enticeingly in front of Scientologist's noses for a very long time.

DM devised even better ways to multi tier the brdige with the arbitrary 6 month check ups, as well as refreshers and new lists and run downs which all upper level people had to pay for and do such as the False Purpose Rundown.

DM's greatest coup, an act that the great showman P.T. Barnum could have learned from was the practice of notifying the public that either some new LRH tech data had been uncovered or that some SP had been discovered in the Organization who had altered major portions of LRH's tech. IN EITHER CASE, EVERYONE WAS ORDERED TO REDO ALL THEIR UPPER LEVELS AT THEIR OWN EXPENSE!! Most of the public bought into this hook, line and sinker. The few people who saw through this ploy, packed their bags and left the Church, being harrassed endlessly on their ways out and for many years beyond. This last coup got rid of any Scientologists who were mavericks, or actually had critical thinking skills and left mainly just robots or Ronbots still on lines. Getting rid of mavericks and free thinkers has always been among DM's major goals ever since he assumed command, and actually even before that when he was scheming to take over!

Getting back to discussing the two tiered system of requesting donations versus the endlessly tiered system, my main point is that after getting past the first two tiers, I believe an Org could actually move in to its Ideal Org building and start using it. No doubt, more panic situations would always arise demananding pleas for more and more money but at least the Org would be in its new building. That is my point and my question. DO YOU AGREE THAT JUST TWO TIERS ARE REQUIRED TO ENABLE OCCUPANCY or are you saying that endless tiers will be erected before occupancy can take place so that non occupancy of the Ideal Org building is part of the Master Plan?

In the latter case, if the buildings were never occupied by an actual Org then the strategy for building them would be only to have large fully paid off assetts avaible to sell just prior to the final total collapse of the Church of Scientology so that DM and a few cronies can cash in and be billionaires at the expense of the parishioners when the Church is forced into a total financial collapse?
Lakey
 
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