I WANT TO LOVE MY FAMILY BUT......

onthepes

Patron with Honors
How do you mock up love for your family? God knows I try. I am the youngest of 3 brothers. I am nearly 50. They are in their fifties. Even though I realize I am nearly 50 they have not quite understood this.

I understand being in Scientology does not help being in a family. I can quote references from LRH, but just look at the posts here and there is my own experience.

But even if you weren't in Scientology it is pushing shit uphill.

I am the only one in my family interested in improving conditions in my life. My mum does as well, but I have a lot more push through. If I have a project I give it a good go. I don't just try something for a few weeks and give up.

I told my oldest brother the other day that I had given up smoking. All he said was "Again?" in a smart arse fashion. I told him it had been 4 and a half months since giving up. He then said "oh okay". Terrible response.

I have had hip pain recently. I have been doing stretches every day for 30 minutes for the last 5 weeks and taking a "Joint Formula" which has no junk in it. You see I like the idea of running around and playing tennis with my youngest boy when he comes. He is nearly 18. I can compete with him on the tennis court. It helps a lot and I have more mobility. It is a work in progress.

My mum bought some of this formula. She told my niece who said "Do you know what is in it? Does it have wheat?" My mum read it wrong and said it does (it doesn't. I read it to her again). My niece went on a rant about how it could be bad for my mum and how she should not take it.

I heard my mum tell my other brother that I bought this Joint Formula. My nephew said "it MIGHT work, with the emphasis on MIGHT". Then they laughed. My mum said "Your brother said it works for him". My brother then said "Oh that is scientific". They cracked up again. Horrible acks.

For me, I like to look at what is in front of me and consider "Is this all there is. Surely there is more". But I am alone in my family in this viewpoint.

I remember my ex's Father. He was a character. He had a big family. Wife and six kids. Plus other relatives from the country. Big family this. They used to sit around the table and tell him what was wrong with him. Just bag the guy.

Eventually he had nothing to do with most of them. He got an Asian wife and her family became his. He basically found another family.

I do not want to have to do that.

The point is "How do I mock up love my family. Is it possible?"
 

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
It sounds like you have a terrible chip on your shoulder, and you cannot love your family, unless they act according to the terms you set.

That is narcissistic & destructive behavior. No family is perfect. I'm sure you can remember something about each member of your family that brought a smile to your face, even if they've done or said things you don't agree with. Build on that.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
The trick, and hard part about learning how to express love is that you have to do so in SPITE of all the many reasons why you shouldn't.

One needs to "get outside of yourself" a bit, stop judging, stop evaluating, stop requiring that your expectations be met.

Strangely, Hubbard WAS right about that one idea - though he never practiced it himself, he never implemented it into his subject or practices, and thus almost none of his followers practice it either. His essay is a wonderful example of just another of many contradictions in Scientology. It is great advice, but impossible to follow if one accepts and follows all the other more "senior" advice (policy, orders, etc.).

What is Greatness

And, Hubbard throws in a bunch of other nonsense into the essay that dilutes the basic message (which he obviously never himself actually understood).

While I am not a Christian I do like the story of Jesus on the cross, getting broken, getting speared, bleeding, tortured, and he looks up, with LOVE in his eyes, and says, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do".

Not THAT is an example of "continuing to love his fellows despite all reasons he should not!"

THAT was the message of Christianity. It is a MAJOR message, that is little understood, and even less practiced.

It isn't easy. Even for the simply little things we mere mortals face every day. But, we can try a bit, and try a bit more, and change.

Also, love involves an outflow of well-wishing, tolerant understanding and kindness. It is NOT about "me". It is not about what "I get". It is like what a mother might feel for her child - total selfless caring and intentions of joy and happiness for another.
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
I'm not sure if I've understood this correctly but were you the only scio in the family?

If I've read that correctly I've run into a similar thing with my only sister ... she was never in and now that I'm out whenever I say anything she looks at me and speaks to me as if I'm the village idiot, we can't even email because she so badly wants me to know what a complete twat I am for ever being in a cult ... and though I agree with her, enough is enough after a while.

Scientology wrecks relationships and (if I read your situation correctly) the best thing you could do (I believe) is to sit them all down and tell them that you agree with them, that you were once a fool and are now working things out ... no need to justify or explain further than that.

Don't expect an 'ack' or any 'validation' because I doubt you'll get any, you are on your own on this one, but luckily you do have another 'family' that understands and cares ... us.


:yes:




 

onthepes

Patron with Honors
It sounds like you have a terrible chip on your shoulder, and you cannot love your family, unless they act according to the terms you set.

That is narcissistic & destructive behavior. No family is perfect. I'm sure you can remember something about each member of your family that brought a smile to your face, even if they've done or said things you don't agree with. Build on that.


I don't like what you said about having a chip on my shoulder. I won't go into agreeance with that at all. I do however admire your honesty.

Yes I can think on things my family have done that brought a smile. I can build on that. Thanks. I guess I look at people's posts here. I could apply it to that. Someone will post something that I really like and then the same person will post another thing that I deplore. So I can be more flexible and take good with the bad.
 

onthepes

Patron with Honors
I'm not sure if I've understood this correctly but were you the only scio in the family?

If I've read that correctly I've run into a similar thing with my only sister ... she was never in and now that I'm out whenever I say anything she looks at me and speaks to me as if I'm the village idiot, we can't even email because she so badly wants me to know what a complete twat I am for ever being in a cult ... and though I agree with her, enough is enough after a while.

Scientology wrecks relationships and (if I read your situation correctly) the best thing you could do (I believe) is to sit them all down and tell them that you agree with them, that you were once a fool and are now working things out ... no need to justify or explain further than that.

Don't expect an 'ack' or any 'validation' because I doubt you'll get any, you are on your own on this one, but luckily you do have another 'family' that understands and cares ... us.


:yes:





Thank you. Yes you are quite accurate. The complete twat thing is spot on. The viewpoint I mean. This was occurring prior to Scientology, although I am sure that did not help. I have made everyone aware that I am no longer in. They are happy with that. It was the angle that I was looked on as "clueless" which was not accurate.

I did not want to come across as an asshole. One response I got here indicated that I did. I actually do care about them and do want to do something about it. I thought this was a good place to come to as I am sure we have had our trials with family. Thanks for your response.
 

onthepes

Patron with Honors
What is Greatness

And, Hubbard throws in a bunch of other nonsense into the essay that dilutes the basic message (which he obviously never himself actually understood).

While I am not a Christian I do like the story of Jesus on the cross, getting broken, getting speared, bleeding, tortured, and he looks up, with LOVE in his eyes, and says, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do".

Not THAT is an example of "continuing to love his fellows despite all reasons he should not!"


You nailed it Gadfly. That was one of my favourite precepts that I read of LRH's. I know he did not practise it. Bad move on his behalf.

Trust me, I do want to feel love for others, no matter what is happening. I agree it is the answer. The fact that I struggle with doing so is frustrating to me. It is the thing I have been desiring since I don't know when and I keep taking losses on it.
 

What's It All About

Patron with Honors
How do you mock up love for your family? God knows I try. I am the youngest of 3 brothers. I am nearly 50. They are in their fifties. Even though I realize I am nearly 50 they have not quite understood this.

I understand being in Scientology does not help being in a family. I can quote references from LRH, but just look at the posts here and there is my own experience.

But even if you weren't in Scientology it is pushing shit uphill.

I am the only one in my family interested in improving conditions in my life. My mum does as well, but I have a lot more push through. If I have a project I give it a good go. I don't just try something for a few weeks and give up.

I told my oldest brother the other day that I had given up smoking. All he said was "Again?" in a smart arse fashion. I told him it had been 4 and a half months since giving up. He then said "oh okay". Terrible response.

I have had hip pain recently. I have been doing stretches every day for 30 minutes for the last 5 weeks and taking a "Joint Formula" which has no junk in it. You see I like the idea of running around and playing tennis with my youngest boy when he comes. He is nearly 18. I can compete with him on the tennis court. It helps a lot and I have more mobility. It is a work in progress.

My mum bought some of this formula. She told my niece who said "Do you know what is in it? Does it have wheat?" My mum read it wrong and said it does (it doesn't. I read it to her again). My niece went on a rant about how it could be bad for my mum and how she should not take it.

I heard my mum tell my other brother that I bought this Joint Formula. My nephew said "it MIGHT work, with the emphasis on MIGHT". Then they laughed. My mum said "Your brother said it works for him". My brother then said "Oh that is scientific". They cracked up again. Horrible acks.

For me, I like to look at what is in front of me and consider "Is this all there is. Surely there is more". But I am alone in my family in this viewpoint.

I remember my ex's Father. He was a character. He had a big family. Wife and six kids. Plus other relatives from the country. Big family this. They used to sit around the table and tell him what was wrong with him. Just bag the guy.

Eventually he had nothing to do with most of them. He got an Asian wife and her family became his. He basically found another family.

I do not want to have to do that.

The point is "How do I mock up love my family. Is it possible?"

Family members are often very rude to each other. Strangely, that doesn't necessarily mean that they have nothing but ill will or don't genuinely care for each other.

Also, in my observation, men can be very rude to each other. It's part of the macho facade they feel they have to adopt to be "real" men.

Sometimes you just have to keep things to yourself. When you've solidified a positive result, then you can tell them. Or just let them notice how well you are doing. If they're jealous, find more positive people to hang out with. If they are curious about how you achieved your results, then that might be a time you can talk about it.

Some people aren't ready to confront their own limitations. Enjoy what you can about them without expecting them to change. They will when they are ready to. In the mean time, forge ahead with whatever you want to do. You may quietly inspire them!

You can tell someone to stop it because they're being rude. Or you can treat their rudeness as a serious response and say, "Yeah, we'll see how it goes" or "Maybe this time it will stick (re: smoking)".

The reality is that joint remedies don't necessarily work if you look at the various studies that have been done of them. But they may work for you. You can turn their snide remarks into a joke, like say, "I'll let you know how the lab studies go". Or invite them to run with you and see if you can leave them in the dust.

You sound like you're British. How do British men of your acquaintance who are not your family generally treat each other? Are they more supportive of you and you of them?

If not, how do you treat people when they tell you about something new they're doing? Are you encouraging and interested? If not, why not? If so, can you be supportive of your brothers and mother even when they are rude?

Don't be a martyr to them. You are all getting on in years, so maybe you can say "Aren't you a little old for this?". Or just simply tell them you'd appreciate a bit more support and courtesy. It's a bit like fencing. Sometimes you have to poke back at someone so that they realize that you don't like what they're doing.

If you are still a Scientologist or were one, did you behave arrogantly towards them? Are they getting revenge? You can always say something to take responsibility, like "I acted like such a know-it-all, I can't believe I did that. I'm really sorry" and just leave it at that. If they resent your past actions, just agree with them. It may defuse their anger.

Or you can try sarcasm, like saying "Well, aren't you overflowing with brotherly love today?".

In other words, there are lots of approaches you can take to either defuse the situation or to let them know that their remarks hurt you and make you angry.

People don't necessarily know how they're affecting you unless you tell them. And just like in the Paul Simon song 50 Ways to Leave Your Lover, there are lots of ways to approach the same thing.

My brothers and sometimes my sisters and cousins are rude or otherwise inconsiderate to each other. We are all about the same age as your family. There are ways to give feedback, polite ways and sharp ways.

Do what you can, realize they may not change overnight, but that doesn't mean that you aren't getting through to them.

And ask yourself what you really want from them. Then see if you can set the example for that change, if you can "be the change that you want to see in the world". This puts it in your control.

If there's no real emotional kinship between you, then you can find your "family of choice". Sometimes that's just how it works out. There's no shame in finding love and community where you can without beating your head against the wall of other people's rudeness or lack of consideration.

Just do the best you can at the moment. Good luck! I wouldn't try to "mock up" anything. Just be the best person you can be and decide where your limits lie. Make your limits clear and hope that you get through to them a bit. The I Ching has a hexagram called "Gradual Progress for the Good". You can embody that!

 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
Thank you. Yes you are quite accurate. The complete twat thing is spot on. The viewpoint I mean. This was occurring prior to Scientology, although I am sure that did not help. I have made everyone aware that I am no longer in. They are happy with that. It was the angle that I was looked on as "clueless" which was not accurate.

I did not want to come across as an asshole. One response I got here indicated that I did. I actually do care about them and do want to do something about it. I thought this was a good place to come to as I am sure we have had our trials with family. Thanks for your response.


:blowkiss:

Talk to us whenever you feel inclined.
 

Lurker5

Gold Meritorious Patron
How do you mock up love for your family? God knows I try. I am the youngest of 3 brothers. I am nearly 50. They are in their fifties. Even though I realize I am nearly 50 they have not quite understood this.

I understand being in Scientology does not help being in a family. I can quote references from LRH, but just look at the posts here and there is my own experience.

But even if you weren't in Scientology it is pushing shit uphill.

I am the only one in my family interested in improving conditions in my life. My mum does as well, but I have a lot more push through. If I have a project I give it a good go. I don't just try something for a few weeks and give up.

I told my oldest brother the other day that I had given up smoking. All he said was "Again?" in a smart arse fashion. I told him it had been 4 and a half months since giving up. He then said "oh okay". Terrible response.

I have had hip pain recently. I have been doing stretches every day for 30 minutes for the last 5 weeks and taking a "Joint Formula" which has no junk in it. You see I like the idea of running around and playing tennis with my youngest boy when he comes. He is nearly 18. I can compete with him on the tennis court. It helps a lot and I have more mobility. It is a work in progress.

My mum bought some of this formula. She told my niece who said "Do you know what is in it? Does it have wheat?" My mum read it wrong and said it does (it doesn't. I read it to her again). My niece went on a rant about how it could be bad for my mum and how she should not take it.

I heard my mum tell my other brother that I bought this Joint Formula. My nephew said "it MIGHT work, with the emphasis on MIGHT". Then they laughed. My mum said "Your brother said it works for him". My brother then said "Oh that is scientific". They cracked up again. Horrible acks.

For me, I like to look at what is in front of me and consider "Is this all there is. Surely there is more". But I am alone in my family in this viewpoint.

I remember my ex's Father. He was a character. He had a big family. Wife and six kids. Plus other relatives from the country. Big family this. They used to sit around the table and tell him what was wrong with him. Just bag the guy.

Eventually he had nothing to do with most of them. He got an Asian wife and her family became his. He basically found another family.

I do not want to have to do that.

The point is "How do I mock up love my family. Is it possible?"

Move far far away. It is easier to love 'em from a distance.
 

onthepes

Patron with Honors


Don't expect an 'ack' or any 'validation' because I doubt you'll get any, you are on your own on this one, but luckily you do have another 'family' that understands and cares ... us.


:yes:




and thank you so very much for that. It is why I come here. Not as an attempt to trash my family, but to actually understand what the hell is going on. Good point on the "ack" and "validation". I best not expect that. This board is awesome for getting those. I must admit on a few occassions I have had some woeful comments aimed at me that I did not get. Thankfully, that has been the minority. I think we all have our shitty days.
 

Dilettante

Patron Meritorious
Imagine an open gargantuan canyon with acceptance on one side and approval on the other. Look around every once in a while figure out who is on which side. Stay on the acceptance side because approval is never healthy. I would also warn that the reasons for any 'disapproval' better be PRETTY GODDAMN GOOD if you are going to measure that against the importance of family. Ideas, spouses, addictions, illnesses, divorces, squabbles and religions are a certainty and some temporary, the affliction known as family is forever (this life anyway and that's about all counts).
:unsure: I don't have any :ohmy:cult:ohmy: members in my family.........why do you ask? :eyeroll:
Loving one despite every reason not to is a worthwhile pursuit.

And exactly what degraded being said. More or less as you deem appropriate.
 
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Free to shine

Shiny & Free
I think it's a normal sort of problem that can get blown out of proportion if there are scientology concepts still active below sight. We can't choose our families - though scios will tell you we can - and some we get on with and some we don't.

Best to have no expectations, be yourself no matter what, be as loving as you can without hoping for that in return. Some good suggestions above too.
 

onthepes

Patron with Honors



Also, in my observation, men can be very rude to each other. It's part of the macho facade they feel they have to adopt to be "real" men.


The reality is that joint remedies don't necessarily work if you look at the various studies that have been done of them. But they may work for you. You can turn their snide remarks into a joke, like say, "I'll let you know how the lab studies go". Or invite them to run with you and see if you can leave them in the dust.

You sound like you're British. How do British men of your acquaintance who are not your family generally treat each other? Are they more supportive of you and you of them?

If not, how do you treat people when they tell you about something new they're doing? Are you encouraging and interested? If not, why not? If so, can you be supportive of your brothers and mother even when they are rude?


If you are still a Scientologist or were one, did you behave arrogantly towards them? Are they getting revenge? You can always say something to take responsibility, like "I acted like such a know-it-all, I can't believe I did that. I'm really sorry" and just leave it at that. If they resent your past actions, just agree with them. It may defuse their anger.



That was wonderful. Thanks heaps for caring and giving such good advice. I am an Aussie. Quite a large chunk of Aussie males are macho. The main thing we do is "take the piss". This means we have a shot at each other. I noticed that tradies and labourers struggled with this after being in the Org for a while. They learn a bit about the comm formula and giving the appropriate ack and THEN go back to their worksites and put up with a lot of wisecracks. lol. Very hard for them.

Believe you me, I had an awful time with this on Objectives at the beginning. I had to turn a lot around as an auditor. All I wanted to do is have a laugh. Now, post-Scientology, it has taken me quite some time to loosen up (I become quite serious) but I still believe slipping in a joke is definitely a matter of timing.

Yes I was a bit of a know-it-all. I look back at that guy that I was and I wanna shake him (sorry , doing my Morgan Freeman). I did not like the guy I had become when I was in Scientology. Now that I reflect, after my initial spit, my family responds to me more when I am having a laugh and a joke. They like me more when I am fun. I am slowly stripping that away (the seriousness). You will possibly find that I will become more and more loose in these posts as time goes by.

Good question on me being interested. I am actually quite good at that and believe in responding in an appropriate way. I have to be honest and say that while I was in Scientology I was not always interested in "wog" conversations (i hate that word with a passion). It was difficult as family and friends had been watching tv and going on holidays and eating in restaurants. I had no reality on that. I do now. I mostly love my life now.


My son recently told me that he did not like me being in Scientology "one little bit". He is a champion and my best friend. He was with me regularly during my time on staff. He was never a Scientologist. If you want to talk about "What Is Greatness", he never once tried to make me feel bad about being in Scientology. He is not a Scientologist, never has been, but he gives great acks, validates, ethical, true to his friends, honest and respected by peers. I tell him he is my inspiration.

I thanked him for understanding my time in Scientology, particularly not saying anything about it. He said "I can be a great bullshitter sometimes, Dad". I said "No, actually, you are a great person. That is why you did not say anything".

I am starting to feel better already. Thank you
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
and thank you so very much for that. It is why I come here. Not as an attempt to trash my family, but to actually understand what the hell is going on. Good point on the "ack" and "validation". I best not expect that. This board is awesome for getting those. I must admit on a few occassions I have had some woeful comments aimed at me that I did not get. Thankfully, that has been the minority. I think we all have our shitty days.


Scientology turned many of us into 'acknowledgement/validation seekers' and (apart from basic good manners) people that were not in the cult don't play by those rules ... don't be offended if you are 'ignored' after opening up to someone because it doesn't always mean anything and you can waste energy trying to work out what is going on (when probably nothing is) and you need that energy to quietly sort yourself out.

I've taught myself to never expect anything, from anyone, ever (lol) and when lovely things do happen (and they do) it's extra nice.


:coolwink:




Posted by degraded being


.
.
Tell them to "go fuck themselves" when they are nasty.:)


:lol:



 

onthepes

Patron with Honors
. Stay on the acceptance side because approval is never healthy. I would also warn that the reasons for any 'disapproval' better be PRETTY GODDAMN GOOD if you are going to measure that against the importance of family.


Yes I like what you said. When I was on staff in Scientology, I would listen intently to many public who seeked approval from family and friends. I wasn't allowed to have a case. I became quite cold.


mmmm interesting. Now that I have distanced myself spectacularly from the Org, I have become more sensitive. It is funny that I wanted to be less colder and feel more. It is hilarious that I actually have what I wanted and I'm complaining. :thumbsup:
 

onthepes

Patron with Honors


I've taught myself to never expect anything, from anyone, ever (lol) and when lovely things do happen (and they do) it's extra nice.



Thanks again. LRH would have been a god if he practised what he wrote. As you say above "to be able to experience anything". Yes lovely things are very nice. I have had a few here. :yes:
 

Dilettante

Patron Meritorious
As a recovering scibot I wish you spectacular sensitivity. Not all of it is warm and fuzzy so take good care of yourself to offset the raw shit that's bound to come up.
 
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