I WANT TO LOVE MY FAMILY BUT......

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
Thanks again. LRH would have been a god if he practised what he wrote. As you say above "to be able to experience anything". Yes lovely things are very nice. I have had a few here. :yes:


Lol, I don't experience anything if nothing comes back (cos there's nothing there to experience) ... there's a slight difference, but it works, for me anyway.


:batseyelashes:
 

onthepes

Patron with Honors
As a recovering scibot I wish you spectacular sensitivity. Not all of it is warm and fuzzy so take good care of yourself to offset the raw shit that's bound to come up.


Thank you heaps. It is becoming interesting. Some of it very nice and other times.....just a tad raw. Stuff that would have flown over my shoulder or hit a wall before has suddenly become important. But I don't want to be cold or a robot or a badass mofo, so I will take it as a win.
 

onthepes

Patron with Honors
Your son sounds like a really nice person. I am sure you brought out the best in him.


Thank you DB. Love your title - DB. Brilliant. Plus the pic.

He is a really nice person. A pleasure to be around. I never "preach" to him. I try and be an influence by being as decent as I can. We are off overseas in December. It's a reward for finishing school and doing well. His friends say "You are going with your Dad??'. He says "You haven't met my Dad". He was with me overseas before when he was 16. Put it this way, DB, It was far from boring :thumbsup:
 

Helena Handbasket

Gold Meritorious Patron
How do you mock up love for your family? ... it is pushing shit uphill.

I told my oldest brother the other day that I had given up smoking. All he said was "Again?" in a smart arse fashion. I told him it had been 4 and a half months since giving up. He then said "oh okay". Terrible response.

I have been ... taking a "Joint Formula" ... My mum bought some of this formula. She told my niece who said "Do you know what is in it? Does it have wheat?" My mum read it wrong and said it does (it doesn't. I read it to her again). My niece went on a rant about how it could be bad for my mum and how she should not take it.

I heard my mum tell my other brother that I bought this Joint Formula. My nephew said "it MIGHT work, with the emphasis on MIGHT". Then they laughed. My mum said "Your brother said it works for him". My brother then said "Oh that is scientific". They cracked up again. Horrible acks.
My family abused me in subtle (and some not-so-subtle) ways. Why? I'm sure part of it was a sort of protectiveness, a wanting to let me know when I was doing something self-hurtful (at least in their opinion) and a trying to get me to stop it. But part of it was "because they could", because when I was an infant, they (my parents and my elder brother) could dominate me absolutely. Once a pattern like that is established, it's hard to break.

My father in particular treated outsiders very politely but treated us family members like shit.


I remember my ex's Father ... Eventually he had nothing to do with most of them. He got an Asian wife and her family became his. He basically found another family.
Dr. Laura Schessinger, in her book, Bad Childhood, Good Life, actually recommends this -- sort of. She says you should grow up, get married, have kids, treat everybody kindly, and make that the family you enjoy being with.

In my case, however, I "wrote them off" -- decided I didn't want to be around them any more.


This was occurring prior to Scientology
I have read that many people join "groups" :melodramatic: to try to find the love that was denied them from their families.

Move far far away. It is easier to love 'em from a distance.
It's even easier to NOT love them from a BIG distance.

Helena
 

onthepes

Patron with Honors
But part of it was "because they could", because when I was an infant, they (my parents and my elder brother) could dominate me absolutely. Once a pattern like that is established, it's hard to break.

In my case, however, I "wrote them off" -- decided I didn't want to be around them any more.



Great points Helena. Thanks for taking the time. I understand exactly what you mean. My brothers were bigger and so could tease me mercilessly. I don't feel that they were every really malicious. They just wanted a reaction. But being the youngest also had its advantages. There is a tendency to be spoiled. The laws of Cause and Effect.

It's a shame you had to write yours off. But, Helena, I would never tell anyone NOT to do that. I have seen some families that I definitely would not want to be part of. There are a lot worse than mine. Wherever you are now, Helena , I hope you have found a group that you can love. You sound like you would have earned that.
 

What's It All About

Patron with Honors
Great points Helena. Thanks for taking the time. I understand exactly what you mean. My brothers were bigger and so could tease me mercilessly. I don't feel that they were every really malicious. They just wanted a reaction. But being the youngest also had its advantages. There is a tendency to be spoiled. The laws of Cause and Effect.

It's a shame you had to write yours off. But, Helena, I would never tell anyone NOT to do that. I have seen some families that I definitely would not want to be part of. There are a lot worse than mine. Wherever you are now, Helena , I hope you have found a group that you can love. You sound like you would have earned that.

I've heard that Australian men are tough on each other, and have tough attitudes towards women too!

I notice that boys learn early that closeness to another boy means hitting, shoving and chasing. They just aren't encouraged to show gentleness or kindness to each other. Too bad. But it sounds like you've helped your son to escape from this behavior.

This observation about being bullied because you were the youngest interests me. Did your brothers also pick on each other? If so, did you notice that, or only notice what they did to you?

I also have a youngest brother who is very distant from all of us elder siblings. He feels unpleasantly dominated by us. But when we see him, we behave welcomingly and lovingly. He takes that for granted. He's quiet, so it's hard for him to get a word in edgewise. Sometimes his two closest siblings tease him, not meanly, because they're trying to draw him out and get him to laugh and talk. He's very serious, as you are.

(I am as well. With lots of siblings, you form your personality as a counter-balance to the others in order to maintain a group equilibrium. If one member changes, the others will reorganize themselves. As a case in point, when one of my siblings stopped drinking, another one who had previously been more moderate started drinking much more consistently.)

He also has a big chip on his shoulder about the fact that he was bossed around by all of us. As well as spoiled by us. He takes the spoiling for granted and resents the bossing. Aren't we all that way? If good things come our way, we forget to be as grateful as we could be, but if people anger or hurt us, we fixate on that negativity.

I love the remark about acceptance versus approval! Such a good observation.

My brother also ignores that fact that each of us at times feels unpleasantly dominated by the others. Each of us struggles to be seen and heard and valued by the others. Your brothers may be just as hard on each other as they are on you!

An essential part of life is finding that balance in communicating well and wisely, in being clear without hurting others, in using a light touch while being serious. It's just an on-going challenge.

There's the expression, "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step." In fact, every moment is that single step. Let your steps be soft and sure so that you get over rough ground as lightly as possible.

Clearly you have the wisdom to learn from your son. One of the things that struck me after I moved out of the family home to go to college and then returned to visit was that my younger siblings had changed, grown and learned things that I was unaware of. It's a real blessing to understand that you can learn from those who are younger than you.

How fortunate that you have him for a role model!

 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
How do you mock up love for your family? God knows I try. I am the youngest of 3 brothers. I am nearly 50. They are in their fifties. Even though I realize I am nearly 50 they have not quite understood this.

I understand being in Scientology does not help being in a family. I can quote references from LRH, but just look at the posts here and there is my own experience.

But even if you weren't in Scientology it is pushing shit uphill.

I am the only one in my family interested in improving conditions in my life. My mum does as well, but I have a lot more push through. If I have a project I give it a good go. I don't just try something for a few weeks and give up.

I told my oldest brother the other day that I had given up smoking. All he said was "Again?" in a smart arse fashion. I told him it had been 4 and a half months since giving up. He then said "oh okay". Terrible response.

I have had hip pain recently. I have been doing stretches every day for 30 minutes for the last 5 weeks and taking a "Joint Formula" which has no junk in it. You see I like the idea of running around and playing tennis with my youngest boy when he comes. He is nearly 18. I can compete with him on the tennis court. It helps a lot and I have more mobility. It is a work in progress.

My mum bought some of this formula. She told my niece who said "Do you know what is in it? Does it have wheat?" My mum read it wrong and said it does (it doesn't. I read it to her again). My niece went on a rant about how it could be bad for my mum and how she should not take it.

I heard my mum tell my other brother that I bought this Joint Formula. My nephew said "it MIGHT work, with the emphasis on MIGHT". Then they laughed. My mum said "Your brother said it works for him". My brother then said "Oh that is scientific". They cracked up again. Horrible acks.

For me, I like to look at what is in front of me and consider "Is this all there is. Surely there is more". But I am alone in my family in this viewpoint.

I remember my ex's Father. He was a character. He had a big family. Wife and six kids. Plus other relatives from the country. Big family this. They used to sit around the table and tell him what was wrong with him. Just bag the guy.

Eventually he had nothing to do with most of them. He got an Asian wife and her family became his. He basically found another family.

I do not want to have to do that.

The point is "How do I mock up love my family. Is it possible?"

I know how it is to find family exasperating or even worse.

I guess that you have to decide what you want to do. You could stay in touch but dial it back some, hang out with them less.

Another thing is to have the thought that you love them and would be there for them because they are family, but you don't necessarily see eye to eye with them, but that, anyway, there is still love there even if the liking is less than you'd have preferred.

Try to find things about them that you think are really cool.
 

auntpat

Patron with Honors
I am a Christian and at the age of 79 am more or less studying for my finals. Part of my finals is alighning myself with God. I am working on unconditional love. It isn't easy, but I know that is how God loves me, and you , by the way. It is strange that the more I stop judging those in my environment and come to love them, the happier I am.
A christian friend of mine says that our friends are God's appology for our family members.
I am the last surviving member off my family and I am very glad that I was on very good terms with each one before they died.
I will be praying that things will get better for you and also for travel mercies for you and your lovely son.
Love and Light,
Aunt Pat
 

Dilettante

Patron Meritorious
I am a Christian and at the age of 79 am more or less studying for my finals. Part of my finals is alighning myself with God. I am working on unconditional love. It isn't easy, but I know that is how God loves me, and you , by the way. It is strange that the more I stop judging those in my environment and come to love them, the happier I am.
A christian friend of mine says that our friends are God's appology for our family members.
I am the last surviving member off my family and I am very glad that I was on very good terms with each one before they died.
I will be praying that things will get better for you and also for travel mercies for you and your lovely son.
Love and Light,
Aunt Pat

You've already passed all the other exams, quizes and tests, your final should be a piece of cake. We're just gonna miss you when you graduate.
 
I am a Christian and at the age of 79 am more or less studying for my finals. Part of my finals is alighning myself with God. I am working on unconditional love. It isn't easy, but I know that is how God loves me, and you , by the way. It is strange that the more I stop judging those in my environment and come to love them, the happier I am.
A christian friend of mine says that our friends are God's appology for our family members.
I am the last surviving member off my family and I am very glad that I was on very good terms with each one before they died.
I will be praying that things will get better for you and also for travel mercies for you and your lovely son.
Love and Light,
Aunt Pat

I had a thought about unconditional love the other day.
I think unconditioned love sounds a lot better than unconditional love.
 

Takin Time

Patron with Honors
... Eventually he had nothing to do with most of them. He got an Asian wife and her family became his. He basically found another family.

I do not want to have to do that.

The point is "How do I mock up love my family. Is it possible?"
You can love your family all you want, but that doesn't mean they are going to be good to you (and for you). We all have toxic relationships in our lives at some time or another. And sometimes people will change their behaviors to you. For example, I HATED my sibling growing up. Absolute hate; fights, arguments, you name it.

Now we get along just fine (in our 50's). Perhaps it's maturity (for us). Or perhaps it's because the family dynamic is now different (both parents have passed on and it's just us two) and whoever was the one who was egging on the fights may no longer be there.
 

onthepes

Patron with Honors
You can love your family all you want, but that doesn't mean they are going to be good to you (and for you). We all have toxic relationships in our lives at some time or another. And sometimes people will change their behaviors to you. For example, I HATED my sibling growing up. Absolute hate; fights, arguments, you name it.

Now we get along just fine (in our 50's). Perhaps it's maturity (for us). Or perhaps it's because the family dynamic is now different (both parents have passed on and it's just us two) and whoever was the one who was egging on the fights may no longer be there.


Thanks for that, Takin Time. Glad you get along with your sibling. My brother and uncle could not wait to see each other as kids. Then they would claw each others' eyes out and attempt to shove dirt in each others' mouths. They are best of friends now. I am nearly 50. It is quite a nice time in life I find.
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
How do you mock up love for your family? God knows I try. I am the youngest of 3 brothers. I am nearly 50. They are in their fifties. Even though I realize I am nearly 50 they have not quite understood this.

I understand being in Scientology does not help being in a family. I can quote references from LRH, but just look at the posts here and there is my own experience.

But even if you weren't in Scientology it is pushing shit uphill.

I am the only one in my family interested in improving conditions in my life. My mum does as well, but I have a lot more push through. If I have a project I give it a good go. I don't just try something for a few weeks and give up.

I told my oldest brother the other day that I had given up smoking. All he said was "Again?" in a smart arse fashion. I told him it had been 4 and a half months since giving up. He then said "oh okay". Terrible response.

I have had hip pain recently. I have been doing stretches every day for 30 minutes for the last 5 weeks and taking a "Joint Formula" which has no junk in it. You see I like the idea of running around and playing tennis with my youngest boy when he comes. He is nearly 18. I can compete with him on the tennis court. It helps a lot and I have more mobility. It is a work in progress.

My mum bought some of this formula. She told my niece who said "Do you know what is in it? Does it have wheat?" My mum read it wrong and said it does (it doesn't. I read it to her again). My niece went on a rant about how it could be bad for my mum and how she should not take it.

I heard my mum tell my other brother that I bought this Joint Formula. My nephew said "it MIGHT work, with the emphasis on MIGHT". Then they laughed. My mum said "Your brother said it works for him". My brother then said "Oh that is scientific". They cracked up again. Horrible acks.

For me, I like to look at what is in front of me and consider "Is this all there is. Surely there is more". But I am alone in my family in this viewpoint.

I remember my ex's Father. He was a character. He had a big family. Wife and six kids. Plus other relatives from the country. Big family this. They used to sit around the table and tell him what was wrong with him. Just bag the guy.

Eventually he had nothing to do with most of them. He got an Asian wife and her family became his. He basically found another family.

I do not want to have to do that.

The point is "How do I mock up love my family. Is it possible?"

You can't mock up love. It has to come from the heart.

You are still numb in some respects. I remember being at that stage after leaving.
It's part of having been a scientologist; of having been jaded about love and death and all sorts of normal human emotions. Go and read more stories. Let the stories stir up the past so you can look and see where things changed for you on these subjects. You may have some 'cognitions' and Bognitions along the way... you may see where you f'd up or where you lost sight of priorities. Or how you ignored or minimized others emotional responses to your communications in the past. Seek truth as a primary focus. Regardless of the effects it has. Truth is truth. You'll know it when you see and feel it.

Read the thread at the below link. And visit some of the many links to stories that others have told of their experiences and their evolution out of the scientology mind set. There is much to learn from others. You can find lost love in the sorrows and heartaches of other who have a shared past.
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?21499-Internet-Resources-on-Scientology-for-newcomers

Best wishes,

Mary
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
I am a Christian and at the age of 79 am more or less studying for my finals. Part of my finals is alighning myself with God. I am working on unconditional love. It isn't easy, but I know that is how God loves me, and you , by the way. It is strange that the more I stop judging those in my environment and come to love them, the happier I am.
A christian friend of mine says that our friends are God's appology for our family members.
I am the last surviving member off my family and I am very glad that I was on very good terms with each one before they died.
I will be praying that things will get better for you and also for travel mercies for you and your lovely son.
Love and Light,
Aunt Pat

I love you, Aunt Pat! Unconditional love is the hardest thing to accomplish. One day, one moment at a time. A true challange of acceptance of things as they are.

((HUGGS))

Mary
 

onthepes

Patron with Honors
I am a Christian and at the age of 79 am more or less studying for my finals. Part of my finals is alighning myself with God. I am working on unconditional love. It isn't easy, but I know that is how God loves me, and you , by the way. It is strange that the more I stop judging those in my environment and come to love them, the happier I am.
A christian friend of mine says that our friends are God's appology for our family members.
I am the last surviving member off my family and I am very glad that I was on very good terms with each one before they died.
I will be praying that things will get better for you and also for travel mercies for you and your lovely son.
Love and Light,
Aunt Pat

Thank you for your kind words Aunt Pat. I firmly believe to definitely be on good terms with all before you or they pass. This was a good reminder for me. I will certainly take that on. :hug:
 

onthepes

Patron with Honors
You can't mock up love. It has to come from the heart.

You are still numb in some respects. I remember being at that stage after leaving.
It's part of having been a scientologist; of having been jaded about love and death and all sorts of normal human emotions. Go and read more stories. Let the stories stir up the past so you can look and see where things changed for you on these subjects. You may have some 'cognitions' and Bognitions along the way... you may see where you f'd up or where you lost sight of priorities. Or how you ignored or minimized others emotional responses to your communications in the past. Seek truth as a primary focus. Regardless of the effects it has. Truth is truth. You'll know it when you see and feel it.

Read the thread at the below link. And visit some of the many links to stories that others have told of their experiences and their evolution out of the scientology mind set. There is much to learn from others. You can find lost love in the sorrows and heartaches of other who have a shared past.
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?21499-Internet-Resources-on-Scientology-for-newcomers

Best wishes,

Mary

Thanks for taking the time to reply Mary. I agree. You do get numb whilst in Scientology. That is slowly evaporating: my numbness. I am feeling much more recently. I have noticed that whenever I was about to have a win in life, there was a certain amount of turmoil first. After that there was a bit more love than before. But there was always something I had to recognize first.

Whilst in Scientology, I actually hardly gave my family a second thought. I had no interest in their beliefs and movements.

Now what they are experiencing seems to be more important. As much as I admitted that I was finding them annoying , I believe this was a step forward compared to not feeling anything and literally ignoring them. I don't want to be numb Mary. I want to laugh, cry, jump, run, embrace and continue to learn. I feel there will be the next point where I do not find them as annoying. The change will be from me. Thank you.
 

AnonyMary

Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
Thanks for taking the time to reply Mary. I agree. You do get numb whilst in Scientology. That is slowly evaporating: my numbness. I am feeling much more recently. I have noticed that whenever I was about to have a win in life, there was a certain amount of turmoil first. After that there was a bit more love than before. But there was always something I had to recognize first.

Whilst in Scientology, I actually hardly gave my family a second thought. I had no interest in their beliefs and movements.

Now what they are experiencing seems to be more important. As much as I admitted that I was finding them annoying , I believe this was a step forward compared to not feeling anything and literally ignoring them. I don't want to be numb Mary. I want to laugh, cry, jump, run, embrace and continue to learn. I feel there will be the next point where I do not find them as annoying. The change will be from me. Thank you.

Yes, you are right. The annoying part was something I experienced as well and over time, as I changed, my views of and emotional connections with my family changed and evolved all for the better. There's a lot of propaganda and false information in scientology about people to get through and past. So glad to see that you are well on your way out of the morass of Scientology effects! :thumbsup:

Hang in there!!
 

Gadfly

Crusader
A wise friend once told me " Expectations are resentment under construction ".

And I've found that useful.

That is very interesting. I was cleaning out some drawers yesterday, and I picked up a booklet by Paramahansa Yogananda, flipped randomly to a page, read it, and this is what it said:

"Master", I said, "I must have disappointed you by my abrupt departure from my duties here; I thought you might be angry with me."

"No, of course not", he replied. "Wrath springs only from thwarted desires. I do not expect anything from others, so their actions cannot be in opposition to wishes of mine. I would not use you for my own ends; I am happy only in your own true happiness".


That has much to do with what you said above, and what has been discussed earlier regarding "unconditional love".

Also, to tie it into Scientology a bit. Hubbard talks about the C-D-E-I scale. That involves the idea of how any person interacts with some object of desire (though Hubbard fails to talk about it in these terms). Now, to be quite unattached and not overly identified, one could remain mildly CURIOUS about something. Once one "sinks" to DESIRE, one is getting attached. One wants something, and therefore, when that something is blocked, thwarted or fails to be realized, one gets "upset" (angry, sad, violent, apathetic, etc.).

Also, since everything is subject to the cycle of birth - persistence - death, there is no thing anywhere that will continue to satisfy any desire. In the end, every desire will find itself unfulfilled (unless you are really adept at juggling these things). And, in truth, most things rarely turn out "as expected" or "as envisioned". They might not necessarily turn out "badly", but they almost always turn out "differently" (sometimes in good ways if you are willing to loosen up on ones expectations and demands of reality).

And, per Hubbard if the realization of the desire is blocked continually and over a period of time, one can "sink" lower into states of ENFORCED DESIRE and INHIBITED DESIRE. There is some truth to that. It is not entirely fiction.

What I find interesting is that Hubbard spent all of this time digging into the overly ATTACHED states of mind. In the east they say, screw ALL of that, and let go of the desire completely. Simply, just be happy to want for nothing, and then, you can never be let down. That means NO EXPECTATIONS about ANYTHING on any dynamic. Of course, Hubbard's entire "philosophy" is built counter to that eastern notion, because his subject is all about "satisfying desires" (winning, surviving, flourishing and prospering, expanding, etc.). Hubbard puts almost all his attention on the zone BELOW where the yogis abandon!

See, if doing Scientology actually led you to a state where you rose up to a state where you were truly curious about all things, with no great desire or attachment, THAT would be cool. But, it never does that. Not in its current form as designed by Hubbard.

For all of Hubbard's endless yapping about he was a natural outgrowth of eastern ideas and practices, he is quite FULL OF SHIT. :yes:

It is very easy to understand. If you want to truly be happy, then do not have any attachment at any object on any dynamic, and let go of ALL desires of any sort.

Of course, most people do NOT want to do that. But, according to what some of these mystics and sages say, the incredible joy that fills ones soul when one does so FAR overbalances any "loss" of satisfying the many various physical, mental and emotional needs and desires.

The problem is that you won't know if this is true unless you REALLY do it. And THAT takes time, patience and hard work. And, after being so dissatisfied with the LAST spiritual path that you walked (Scientology), most are not ready or willing to jump 100% into another! :no: :omg: :ohmy:
 
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