I was a scientologist "public" and I was "going clear" :) What is the value of that?

FreakTha

Patron
This is great group and a great forum board. First, I just want to thank all of you guys for keeping this place up!

I cannot really serve you with horrible stories, escapes and punishments today. I hope some of you will get something to take out from my story though, regarding scientology.

What is interesting for me is that much less stories you can read about people, ex- scientologists, who were only “public” of scientology and not Sea Org members. Sea Org members, we could say, kind of the most hardcore employees of the Cherch. The big scientology fighters for the soul. The customers of the Cherch is simply called “Public”. In Scientology they call people “public”, people who go in the “Cherch” and just simply buy the service or services of the church.(Quite weird vocabulary as it is.) So we are now talking about “public”. This is why the organizations, churches are there in the first place. To provide scientology services for simple people or for not that simple people. They should provide auditing, as service, in the first place. (But when you are inside the cherch as “public”, after a while, you start to feel a bit strange that you are just a stupid person who has to be saved by these interesting looking uniform guys.)

This is tricky, because I went to Scientology to buy some auditing service with some given goals and purposes.(imagined goals) So you think your name will be “public” or “a business man” or a “guy from the street” when you step in the door and that is quite safe for you and you think it will stay as it is. You just want to buy some service. It’s not a problem. But as the fly thinks that she is a fly, meanwhile the spider considers her the “food”, and the fly slowly becomes just a “food”. No any evil in it, it is just as it is. So it does not really matter anymore what the fly thinks who she is. I mean you unsuspiciously walk into Scientology as “public” and then somehow you just realize that you morphed to a “Sea Org” member, which became just the part of the body of the Organization. Very cheaply, economically actually from the organization’s viewpoint.

People, like me, do not usually write their stories in Scientology on the internet. Why?

I am from Hungary and very rare if I can find any stories written in Hungarian language about a person who was a scientologist as a real active “public” who went up the bridge, and then he just one day finished the whole thing and do not go in the church anymore. Like myself. 13-14 years ago I finished fully the scientology activity. Why?

In English, I also do not read a lot of stories about people who were called simply the “public” and who went up the “Scientology Bridge” in real, and then they have just disappeared after a while. If you search amongst videos on youtube, you cannot watch too many of their stories on youtube, like the one of Jason Beghe (which is brilliant and helped me a lot in some questions). Why these other people do not speak out? Why a lot of people who were very active public of scientology, consumers of scientology services, do not speak out on the internet. Many people would be interested in their stories I think, as they were “Users” of Scientology service. Basically I also know some of similar people like me - I am convinced that there should be at least thousands of stories, videos on youtube from people who were buying a lot of services from the “church”, then they just stopped doing that after a while. On Hungarian internet forums I met with many ex-Sea Org members but I have not met people who were “public” only. Mostly the stories start like “I was an SO member”…

This is not very good, since it looks like if only for example Apple staff members would write about Apple on the internet, but never the users of the apple products. Silly, but seemingly that is the situation about Scientology. This is a very strange thing regarding scientology. And it is consequently full of biases. People, “public” who the least they should learn in Scientology is communication on a good level, do not communicate and cannot really communicate well. They should be now communication super stars on the internet. Or maybe they do not have anything to say. They maybe as-ised(vanished, cleared) everything from their mind. :)

The only thing they could say sometimes is: Read Hubbard books. And when you ask them, - OK, but what is your opinion about “black and white processing” or “SOP processing”, they would say, - ohh, I do not want to give you "verbal tech"…(most of them do not know anything about these processes anyway) , then I say, - I am not interested in hearing "verbal tech", I am interested in your opinion, experience. I say, - Well…what is your opinion about grade III? - Ohh, Idunno, it’s good…You should just do that and you will see, it's great stuff. - But on 1 to 10 how good is it?
I know it is not easy to talk about these things.

...After I got the famous L-Rundowns in Flag, I finished with the “Cherch of Scientology”. They call these Rundowns/processes the most powerful rundowns ever developed in Scientology. Basically, in Scientology, these L-Rundowns were considered, and I think also, more powerful rundowns than the “Super Power Rundown” itself. (well, I have doubt of their value though) But later, I'll talk about that a bit more too.

...I am not the funny, Hungarian guy whom you see as a Sea Org staff member all over the world. Really, if you go around the world, well, if you go to East Grinstead, Saint Hill, England, or if you go to Flag, Florida or you go to Copenhagen, Denmark, you will find a lot of strange Hungarian staff members, Sea Org members. I mean, I was personally, as a Hungarian, shocked by that fact.
Hungary is a small country in the middle of nowhere in Europe, with about 10 million citizens, surrounded by countries like Slovakia, Czech, Romania, Ukraine, Slovenia, Austria and Croatia. But if you go to Flag, you will not see Sea Org members from the Czech, Slovakia, Romania, Croatia and so on…or you will meet 100 smiley-Hungarians and Mexicans, maybe a lot of Russians too until you will find 1 person from Austria for example, or from Romania, which is more than double sized country than Hungary.
I do not want to invalidate too much Hungarians but this small datum on which you can think about for a bit from this viewpoint: why and how people are going into Scientology and what is the target market of Scientology really.

The second question on this is the following: Guess where was the biggest Amway movement in Europe in the 90s? It was in Hungary. Way bigger than in any other countries in Europe. Hungary had 10 times as many Amway Diamonds and Silvers and other shit than in any other country in Europe. Do you smell any kind of easily hypnotizable “herd mentality” here “on steroids” for a specific country? I mean they in Hungarian Scientology do not only think that Hungary has the most natural OTs(Operating Thetans) ever born on the whole planet, but they have been advertising heavily 20 years ago here that Hungary will be the first Clear country in the whole world. The loudest on this goal of course the Hungarian Sea Org members and Cherch staff members who have not even got any auditing yet. Leaded by few people who were, most of them of course, past life Clears, and now they few years ago finished OTVII or OTVIII. Very few of these you can find in Hungary though, but it is more than enough from their part to contribute to the unbelievable “mass delusion” about the prestigious "Bridge to Nowhere" and about Scientology. Scientology is shrinking all over the world, but not in Hungary, believe me. That is a quite stable datum. But this will change very soon…:)

I was born in the middle of nowhere in a small town of Hungary in a poor family without almost any chance for anything in life, normally. But honestly, nobody would have put a cent on me when I was 14. I made my first half a million (USD) when I was 23 years old as an entrepreneur, in Hungary. I do not want to go into details and it is not about promoting myself since I do not need that and since it is not relevant here and now, but I just want to phrase that I was not a lost guy in my life before Scientology and I am also not lost after Scientology.(but I was quite lost during Scientology) When I was 27 years old I already got almost everything what an average person could wish in life on this planet. I had a lot of young people working in my company, unbelievable atmosphere, I traveled a lot, I had money, my girlfriend was very nice, and my company was decent, measured on the Hungarian scale. But I still wanted to improve and wanted to know more about the world and life. I was actually looking where to go further. Also I wanted to know why I am more successful than others and how can I help people around me to be more successful in life and in their jobs. People around me had a respect toward me as I was young and quite successful, and the luxurious BMW 7 also helped my prestige at that time. :) Of course I had a lot of questions, philosophical questions, organizational questions, self-improvement questions, doubts and so on…I really wanted to help people around me and wanted to push myself a little further. I had time to think about these, since my company was running even without me and I was not burdened with handling daily problems, others were doing it for me many times. But I also saw that many people are struggling in life and I asked the magical questions many times, why? And why I am not? I was introverted well in this question at that time. Besides my company was growing with more employees and staff so I had to prepare myself for being able to handle more things and lead the company to new directions and so on, in the meantime helping my staff also.

I will continue :)) (And I have to write my story down in Hungarian also :)) (And I am very far away of perfect english so sorry for some mistakes in my english writings)

Have a great afternoon and evening there! :)
 
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AngeloV

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: I was a scientologist "public" and I was "going clear" :) What is the value of th

Welcome! What a fabulous first post.

You are in good company.

Looking forward to your continuing story.

Oh yes - glad to hear you are OUT of the cult.

Ciao.
 

DeeAnna

Patron Meritorious
Re: I was a scientologist "public" and I was "going clear" :) What is the value of th

Yes, welcome. I too am very interested to hear more of your story of being a public $cientologist. Even as I read the story of Paul Haggis on the Underground Bunker, I thought to myself "How could he have been in there as a public for 27 or 37 years and never gone into any of the OT levels?" Don't they bug people to "go up the bridge"? Especially people who have money? How could anyone avoid signing up for more courses?

Maybe Haggis got special treatment because he was a celebrity? But what about the non-celebrity public? Can they too fail to purchase any further courses and yet still remain within the church?

I also would like to know your honest answer about how much you ever knew or even suspected about the Sea Org members and how they were treated. Did they look downtrodden? Not well fed? Unhappy?

Thanks in advance for your answers to these questions.
 

FreakTha

Patron
Re: I was a scientologist "public" and I was "going clear" :) What is the value of th

OK, because you are so nicely asking me :) I'll continue. I hope that I'll have some times to write here, because I have some things to say but I also have to work a lot in my daily business...:) I am really happy to be amongst you guys, you helped me a lot also, older and earlier staff members huge huge help for us! Later I'll also try to answer if there are some questions, from my own experience.

--------------------------second part -----------------

In 1996 I spoke only hungarian language, I did not speak english at all at that time. But of course there were hundreds of thousands of books in Hungarian, however there were 10 millions of books and updated knowledge which I was closed out from due to the language barrier. I was learning English in high school but that level of english was only enough to ask for a cup of coffee or beer in a bar somewhere.

One of my very good friends, he was my primary school mate, who was then in his twenties working on ocean ships in casinos as a croupier at that time for few years; one day he came home to Hungary and mentioned me a book called Dianetics, he was reading it on the Casino ship on the way back home, and He found that interesting. He said I should read that. (He was a smart guy and a very good friend of mine)(He is a sociologist and politician now)

Well, I said, I’ll see it later, I am not very interested in these strange titled books really. I am more interested in business and if we are talking about philosophy, I said, please tell me, which was first, the “time” or the “space”? He was a cool, open minded, traveler guy and I was a successful young entrepreneur, but we both were a little confused, interested thinkers since our high school, so earlier we were talking about the different aspects of life and about girls after school time many times when we were teens, so that’s how my question came years later to him. After He came home from the Ocean. I was curious how he saw these things. Also when I was a bit more than 20 years old I had some friends and some “pot” to smoke and that is how the “Universal questions” started to kick in in my life. But then because of the business I had to forget about these things. (Later at least I had some things to “run out” in my “Scientology Drug Rundown” auditings, however the whiskey was much heavier mental destroying “item” than the pot for me :) According to the e-meter. :)

in 1997, only some weeks or months later a guy appeared in my office, I did not really want to meet him but he was a bit pushy, I had to let him in for some minutes, and he said that they have a business training, he has been from a business consultant company and I had to go and see this stuff, he said, since it is really what everybody has to see. I said to him that I learned a lot about business so I am not that interested in business consulting things at all, I had so many sources I was studying earlier and it was more than enough for me, I was more confused than hungry for new methods of business. Besides he looked like a reborn Amway agent. :) But I was interested in philosophical questions and questions about the universe and so on. He said, if I’d go to their weekend seminar for 500USD, then he will show me some other interesting stuff about the universe from the same guy who created their business system, called Ron Howard, as I heard it at that time. I said, Ron who? He said, does not matter, He is quite famous, he wrote a lot of books. I have really never heard about that writer before. OK, I said, then at the weekend I was at the place and they were presenting the "Organizational Board" from which I was quite astonished. Then I asked the guy, does this writer has other stuff too, right? Yes, He said, a lot of books. I said, I am interested in all of them now. The guy gave me a copy of Dianetics book which title I remembered on from my casino croupier school mate. He referred me that weeks ago.

(Later I had to realize, after a lot of studying, that if you want to build a half-military organization with unpaid people, then you can use the Organization Board, but otherwise in real life, in a very competitive market, and it is more true nowadays, you will put your company very fast into bankruptcy if you use that kind of Organization Board and you can really [email protected] your business with that. More true if you have a "cool company" with a lot of young guys. The "Org Board" I call the anti-cool pill for you company. Guess where are the most amount of "WISE" companies and WISE solo entrepreneurs in the world? I am not 100% sure but Hungary is in the Top 3 of the places on the whole planet. :)

...When I was staying in Flag on the L’s, I was already on L11 facing with the Class 12 auditor who are the highest trained auditors on the planet, so it meant a lot to me of course at that time, and I paid about 7,000USD for every 12.5 hours to sit in front of her, so you can imagine. (The average salary of a Hungarian was at that time 500USD/month, in the year 2000)(I still have a good respect toward these auditors as toward any other professionals in any fields in life). Scientology started providing Sunday services at that time, as a new PR invention, just around the weeks when I arrived to Flag, and Sunday morning all “public” like me myself was sent to the Sunday service by few Flag Staff member. I was really surprised, since I have no intention to come in Scientology (science, I thought) to get any kind of Sunday service. (I was a catholic basically but I hated these formal religious things) But they said we have to just go and then I went - as I was a nice social guy - to the Sunday service.
I paid a lot to be nice in Flag. In Sunday service they read from a book some Hubbards’ writing, I do not remember exactly what but maybe something that the “Man is soooo good” or something like that. But the point was, that after some reading they started to give “Group Auditing” processing and I said, what the heck? I am on L11 and I remembered that Hubbard has given instructions in some policies that a person cannot get two different “auditing process” at the same time. I always had relatively good memory to remember these small pieces. So it was very strange for me that nobody said this warning at the auditorium door, that, - Hey, if you are on any kind of processing please leave or do not go in the Sunday service or do not participate in any kind of “group auditing process”.

Afternoon, in my next “L” auditing session I said this story to my Class XII auditor and then from the next Sunday they loudly told to everybody at the door, that if you are on auditing service, please leave before the “group processing”. It was strange that in the most advanced organization on the whole planet, in Flag, a “public” has to direct their attention to this simple rule and problem. And this was true. But at least they corrected that very fast. So that was my second surprise. Try this at an Internet provider corporate for example. :)

I will write more about my experiences in Flag base a bit later. I had quite a lot to say from a “public” viewpoint. Basically I felt much better in Johannesburg Org as a “public” than in Flag Mecca. (However I loved Florida a lot)


I'll continue later. Thank you again to all of you!! :)
 

FreakTha

Patron
Re: I was a scientologist "public" and I was "going clear" :) What is the value of th

Yes, welcome. I too am very interested to hear more of your story of being a public $cientologist. Even as I read the story of Paul Haggis on the Underground Bunker, I thought to myself "How could he have been in there as a public for 27 or 37 years and never gone into any of the OT levels?" Don't they bug people to "go up the bridge"? Especially people who have money? How could anyone avoid signing up for more courses?

Maybe Haggis got special treatment because he was a celebrity? But what about the non-celebrity public? Can they too fail to purchase any further courses and yet still remain within the church?

I also would like to know your honest answer about how much you ever knew or even suspected about the Sea Org members and how they were treated. Did they look downtrodden? Not well fed? Unhappy?

Thanks in advance for your answers to these questions.

Thanks DeeAnna for the questions! You really know what to ask and how to ask into the middle of the subjects. :)

I saw many many bugged cases in Scientology everywhere in very bad states. Horrible states, including myself some times. Few of them just came from Flag, after spending there huge amount of money. But if you have a lot of money and time and if you do not have to handle your daily problems then you can get out of the problems. Otherwise these things can be a heavy and long nightmare I think. That is why Scientology bridge, as it is now, does not have any chance to work and clear bigger amount of people anywhere. On the other hand it is very much over-hyped, but big time, by people who do not even know what they are talking about.

On Sea Org members, well, my experience that they do their best always, they try to be always positive, and they always try to hide how tired or hungry they are, they try to hide all of their problems when they are working, that is how I saw that. Many of them untrained and unexperienced. Many of them should not work in the Sea Org or any of this kind of places. I was at least hundred times reqruited to the Sea org all over the world of course but I could not have imagined for a moment that I could work in that group. I saw that it is ran on something which nothing should be ran on in this world. ( I mean mental manipulations)
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Re: I was a scientologist "public" and I was "going clear" :) What is the value of th

But the point was, that after some reading they started to give “Group Auditing” processing and I said, what the heck? I am on L11 and I remembered that Hubbard has given instructions in some policies that a person cannot get two different “auditing process” at the same time. I always had relatively good memory to remember these small pieces. So it was very strange for me that nobody said this warning at the auditorium door, that, - Hey, if you are on any kind of processing please leave or do not go in the Sunday service or do not participate in any kind of “group auditing process”.

Afternoon, in my next “L” auditing session I said this story to my Class XII auditor and then from the next Sunday they loudly told to everybody at the door, that if you are on auditing service, please leave before the “group processing”.

This is an indication of how screwed up and squirrel flag is.

Group processing is very mild locational stuff as I experienced
it. In fact on OT2 when into heavy anaten I "took a walk around
the block". Got me back in OT 2 session. See "Problems of Work"

Were they forbidden to walk around the block at flag? The
friendliest place in the universe. No!!! They were given severe
heavy sec checks mandatory instead, with tea breaks with
friendly ethics officers.


You illustrate the village idiots don't even understand
their own tech.

In the FZ/Indie arena are very well trained practitioners
who as first priority have the interests of client as priority.

In the FZ you want a sec check you have to kick doors
shout and scream and demand one. Don't guarantee you'll
get one.

The datum ARCX cause blows is obvious now.

Marty has just made an excellent commentary on Tony's blog
that this is what he was auditing. When he was. Dunno if he
still is but seems unlikely.
 

Leland

Crusader
Re: I was a scientologist "public" and I was "going clear" :) What is the value of th

Hey FreakTha.....welcome. I too was "public" for 27 years. Out now 15 years.

Great first posts. Great points about needing more to make YouTube vids about experiences...

AND

Don't mind Teril Park's "hidden" fishing expedition for a new FreeZone client in the above post.....it happens here...and you just have to deal with it...enough said....:omg:

Great points about Hungary. Very interesting stuff.

All the best to you

Lee :)
 

Veda

Sponsor
Some background

:) Hi FreakTha. Enjoying your posts very much.


Public Scientologist William Burroughs
William+Burroughs.jpg

An excerpt from the book Naked Scientology by William Burroughs, who was a "public person," regarding his experiences at St. Hill in the late 1960s:

...I remember one weekend after a few drinks confiding certain doubts about Scientology to a supposed friend.

"They'll wring it out of me at the next Sec Check," he sobbed. "Why don't you go straight to Ethics and make a clean breast of it?"​

I remember some old biddy dragging me into a broom closet... and asking me on the e-meter, "Do you have any unkind thoughts about L. Ron Hubbard? ... That reads. What do you consider that means?"

"He's so beautiful he dazzles me. I can't help resenting it sometimes."

In the words of Celine - "All this time I felt my self respect slipping away and finally completely gone. As it were, officially removed..."

Like an anthropologist who has, after unspeakable indignities, penetrated a savage tribe, I was determined to hang on and get the big medicine...

...I was ordered for a Joberg [Security Check] because I rockslammed [a type of 'read' on the e-meter] on a question, "What would have to happen before Scientology worked on everybody?" (I couldn't confront it.) The [1961] Joberg http://www.xenu.net/archive/books/isd/isd-5i.htm ...is published for the first time in Inside Scientology http://www.xenu.net/archive/books/isd/isd.htm [1972]...

... "That's it!" barks a sulky Sea Org lieutenant in the doorway of the Public Ethics Officer.

"Everybody line up for a Sec Check."​
When my turn comes I pick up the cans.

"Do you consider St. Hill a safe environment?"​

"Yes, of course I do."

"There's a read there. What do you consider that could mean?"​

"Well, we're surrounded by suppressives. It frightens me to think of these devils all around us."

I was learning...



And from John McMaster regarding Scientology of the 1960s:

He[Hubbard] got the technology to a point where he had a sort of assembly line as he called it. And he told me he was putting all these square ball bearings on the assembly line, and then turning them into round ball bearings at the other end.
John McMaster, 1985 interview

21lkf2c.gif




This excerpt from the book, 'Messiah Or Madman?', and its links, may be of interest: http://exscn.net/content/view/178/105/index.html
 

FreakTha

Patron
Re: I was a scientologist "public" and I was "going clear" :) What is the value of it

This will be a little long again, so you should maybe grab a good cup of coffee before you start to read this one. :)

It is really not easy to write about Scientology from a “public” viewpoint. From where I saw Scientology always in my Scientology collateral life. Because it has fortunately never become my life fully, but it just almost did. Of course what I am talking about in my writings are somewhat known and quite obvious to many of you, who were in Scientology for years. But I will try to approach this just from another angle now.

I will jump in time a bit here again in my Scientology life:


I was still at the beginning of my "scientology life". Life was running well. I was doing my “Scientology Grades Auditings” in Johannesburg, South Africa. Hubbard said in his book, “Treat it as an adventure. And may you never be the same again” or something of the sort, but a lot of you know this quote well. How beautiful it sounds, right? For a European, Africa itself is a big adventure.

Few months before I flew to Africa, in 1997 when I was 28 years old, I had to learn English very fast because I wanted to go up the Scientology Bridge to become “Clear” very fast. So I hired an English teacher for 5 hours every day, she had to come to my office to teach me English very intensively. I just wanted to “go Clear” as soon as possible. I was really sold on that idea. (How stupid I was)
But in Hungary, Scientology was just arrived around 1997, and there was no any Scientology organization set up which could give the “scientology auditing services” for people like me in Hungarian. There were also not too many Scientology books or materials in Hungarian, so we many times just read some “homebrew” translations of scientology materials, so it looked quite exotic and adventurous, and “underground bunker” feeling. Out of the “big system” feeling.

Hungarians with a good amount of money, and with highly egoistic personality and intentions, like I was, had to go to England, or to Denmark, Germany, or to Italy to get “scientology auditing” in English and to “go Clear”. But just to make it more beautiful, there was one much better and cheaper offer, more comfortable for Hungarian wallets. Hungarians besides many of them are dumb people, they are tricky people in a dumb way, on the top of that they are quite cheap people too. Someone smart had found South Africa. There were some Class V Scientology organizations in South Africa, and they could provide a big chunk, the half part of the Scientology Bridge actually in English, quite cheaply, up to the “state of Clear”. And some of us organized and travelled to Johannesburg, South Africa. So I blessed the rain and Hubbard down in Africa the first time in my life.

South-African-lions-008.jpg

I was very afraid of travelling to Africa, meanwhile I was young and curious, adventure hungry and I decided I want to "go clear" as fast as possible. I had just great time in Africa. Amazing places, also terrifying places with a lot of unbelievably poor African people, in villages, in more than extreme circumstances. We also had a lot of travels to the very famous Kruger National Safari Park with African Lions, Elephants and so on, and to Sun City with the casinos and other gorgeous places and so on…South Africa is really beautiful. And I liked the people there too.

_67766997_al.jpg

And in the meantime you were getting your Scientology Grade Auditings. What better could you wish as a self-hypnotized young Scientologist? It really looked like you had just a great vacation time. You were not bothered by IAS registrars, Freedom Fighters, and many other bothering things which Scientology presented later in many screwed up Organizations to the “public” of Scientology…(you know for example, you have to donate TR courses for Indian prisoners and so on…)

sun_city_the_palace.jpg

In Africa, “Scientology Ethics” and "Ethics harassments", security checking of the “public scientologists” were almost not existing in the Class V Org, besides we did not care about Ethics, there were really not too many problems with our Ethics. We were not criminals. We do not even think about these things at that time. So there we got exactly what we were going for. Only Auditing and if we wanted, some training. They got from us what they needed in Africa, the Money. All of us were more than happy with the results. Our scientology nightmares have not happened yet at that time.

(I just later read on the net that "Joburg Scientologist" could not go into session because of us, since we, foreigners took their places in the Org)

Johannesburg Org was for us a much better Mecca of Scientology compared to Flag, since the “between sessions” money sucking practices I think caused more damage than good on the “public” in Flag. You had not found that kind of things in Joburg’ Org at that time.

Do you see anything in this story about “saving the planet and this sector of the Universe”?


Scientologist are just getting stupid from many angle in Scientology. This is the hardest part of the story and of my story because they really are. Including me myself. I tell you this after spending more than 200,000USD and some years from my life as being a “public” in Scientology. And if anything you can get out of my writings is this simple fact: Scientologists are getting stupider as they go along in Scientology.(maybe you can say “they are tricked” and “they are stupid to let it happen”, if you want to turn down the pain on this a bit.) I do not want to kill my stories at the beginning but I feel I have to give it to you here.

Why?

So many things are screwed and bugged and misleading in Scientology that it is absolutely not easy to separate the issues and put it down consumable and understandable. Hundreds of different lines you can walk on regarding this subject, as you see this on the internet too. It can confuse anybody heavily. I am writing from a viewpoint of mine as a “public” as a real “just a consumer” of Scientology, from where I saw the things and how I saw these things. This is very tricky because in Scientology you will become the “product of Scientology” finally, and maybe worse than that, you will become the “Product of Yourself”. Quite tricky trap. That is why you see everywhere that people are just simply fucked up sometimes. I mean they are really and fully done sometimes. And they cannot even know and thus tell you what was really going on in Scientology and why they feel that bad or sometimes good about it. Hubbard wanted to make the bridge “stupid proof” and that is how eventually made it just “stupid”.

Dumb.gif


Since, like almost everybody, you go into Scientology to improve yourself with the given "technics", procedures and knowledge of Scientology and you finish as the “product of yourself” in Scientology – by the help of others and by the help of very much questionable technics, procedures of Scientology”. But anyway, you will be the “product of yourself”. ( I know it sounds strange to some outsider readers)

So eventually if you blame Scientology you have to feel that blame yourself at the same time, and if you invalidate Scientology, then you actually invalidate yourself, as Hubbard wanted you to see this whole thing and as Hubbard built up the whole thing. And this is not all Hubbard’s mistake, this is just how the human mind or human spirit is working. But He went even trickier than that. He of course knew about these mechanisms. That is why he said and defined Scientology somewhere to their “Auditors”, “Employees” like this: “Scientology simply is what you can get away with”. Because "Scientology procedures" cannot really be blamed and attacked basically by a Scientologist who was using them in practice. At least it is very tricky and hard to do that. If a Scientologist criticize Scientology processes and he says that they are not working well or they are not working at all, then Hubbard knew that the Scientologist blames and invalidate himself at the same time. So you are the “nasty boy” if scientology is not working for you. Which only partially could be true.

And then he figured out the beauty. If Scientology is not working it is because you are “out-ethics”. You are just a horrible, nasty criminal, if Scientology is not working for you. How stupid is that? This is where Hubbard gave a “death penalty” to his own religion. This is where he really fucked the whole thing up. And put this religion into the “beyond repair category” forever.
 
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Robot Phil

Patron
Re: I was a scientologist "public" and I was "going clear" :) What is the value of th

It's hard to stay public though, they put insane pressure on you to give large donations and join staff. Basically the Sea Org is just a product of being love bombed until they throw you into a van never to be seen again.
 

FreakTha

Patron
Re: I was a scientologist "public" and I was "going clear" :) What is the value of th

It's hard to stay public though, they put insane pressure on you to give large donations and join staff. Basically the Sea Org is just a product of being love bombed until they throw you into a van never to be seen again.

Thanks, Phil, for putting it down in this simple and clear way! :) That is how it is.
 

FreakTha

Patron
Re: I was a scientologist "public" and I was "going clear" :) What is the value of th

For non ex-scientologists this part of my writing will not be that clear maybe, but for ex-scn guys, probably will.

Now, I know that Hubbard wanted to be very precise and He gave a lot of particular reasons. He was working a lot and put together “lists” like, L4, CS53 and so on, which are listing a lot of reasons why a person’s “case” could be screwed in Scientology auditing, but this is a very technical thing. So well before the “ethical” or “non-ethical” reasons, there are reasons like “out-int” and “out-list”, ARC-Breaks and so on…

How much a normal “Joe” knows about these in Scientology? Even if he knows about these, he is so confused about Hubbard’s works(shit) that he cannot figure out anything. he is maybe just reading the "science of survival".

I am not talking about those lists now. I am talking about – as we can call - the “zeitgeist” of Scientology, as I saw it in the last 20 years in Hungary or elsewhere in Scientology. Which is on the average level of a Scientologist looks like this, “every people on earth are aberrated, un-ethical, and of course probably criminals, but at least irresponsible, and we have to save them. But first, We have to make this “real” to them” "...And also people are stuck because they are out-ethics".

I personally got a lot of auditings on “overts”.(on “counter-survival acts you do in life” just for clearing it for non-scientologists too, what it means. When you have to talk about your “dirty” things in scientology.) I got all kinds of these in hundreds of hours in Scientology, I had not got that huge problem with these.(including FPRDs, L’s, Joburg list and sec-checks here and there, ethics handling and so on....) I think trained auditors and C/Ss have been very good in Scientology, particularly in Flag. My bad experiences were not at the Auditor side of Scientology at all.

Finally I left Scientology as a good standing guy, very standardly routed out, after my last “service”.

I arrived home to Hungary one day, I was OK, I personally did not have any kind of “case problem” or anything like that. Then I started to see some other people, business men, around me, who were big donators of Scientology before, with about 500.000USD and so on (From a Hungarian that is a huge amount, relatively I could count as 10 times more contribution than it would be from an American person). One of them was declared SP, the other one, my good friend who was just a new Class VI auditor and CS trained in LA, He just quit shortly after that from the Budapest Org. The other one was an OT VIII with 3 Ls, 30 years in Scientology, He was on comm-ev and these things went on and on…(I knew these guys very well, Scientology only could dream about these guys to be on board.)

So that was one of the main points where I started to make questions and started to read on Internet 13 years ago. And the new realizations regarding scientology were just popping up, one after the other. And the puzzle just started to go more together.

I just really hope that it will happen with many of my other friends too very soon. :)

Have a great day guys for this unbelievable day what we will just have today! :)
 
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