Ideal Org Policy and Practice- Questions

Tom of Helatrobus

Patron Meritorious
I've got the HCO PL where LRH talks about the ideal org. The Ideal Org program seems to be based on that HCO PL, but it is done in a more systematic way by DM and the SO. For those who just left the SO and others who might have served on OT Committees, can you give me some inside information on how the Ideal Org program is run.

1. I'm guessing that there is an official program run from a program manager in CLO complete with a checklist calling for compliance reports. True?

2. Does any one know what is on that program?

3. What are the criteria for the new property?

4. Is there any money kicked in from the SO for ideal orgs? Any kind of matching funds or flat payments from some kind of fund maintained for the purpose? (I feel stupid for asking, but - you know.)

5. Is a SO mission sent? How do they function (aside from getting in the way and yelling at people)?

6. What is the role of the OT committee?

7. What kind of tactics are used on public to suck money out of them?

Help is appreciated.
 

Thalkirst

Patron with Honors
1. I'm guessing that there is an official program run from a program manager in CLO complete with a checklist calling for compliance reports. True? 2. Does any one know what is on that program?

There is such a program for OT Committees (actually, several programs, covering building location, fundraising, CF backlog handling, recruitment etc.). It is ran by CMO though (Landlord Office).

3. What are the criteria for the new property?

There is a tl;dr checklist issued by Int Landlord Office. Basically, it should be around 3000 square meters or above, zoning should be suitable, preferably a landmark property with a classical look, no glass-concrete palaces if you please. Should be in the inner city with a lots of body traffic OR outside of the city on a bigger property, but then a test center has to accompany it in the inner city.


4. Is there any money kicked in from the SO for ideal orgs? Any kind of matching funds or flat payments from some kind of fund maintained for the purpose? (I feel stupid for asking, but - you know.)

No. It has to come from the public 100%. Sometimes the IAS (read: DM) finances certain Ideal Org, but it is a loan then and has to be paid back by the org.

5. Is a SO mission sent? How do they function (aside from getting in the way and yelling at people)?

Usually, there is a SO mission, they are usually pushed to recruit OTs for staff and trying to get the OT Committee to get the money together. These type of missions usually fail, then DM orders the local CO CLO down to handle the flap, which usually results in half the CLO going down there as well to push everything through.

DM then inspects the property before the opening events, yells and screams like a madman, orders a few people to RPF (just before Buffalo was opened, he reportedly sent half of the CLO EUS crew to RPF for "noncompliance" - and the CO CLO EUS became the Estates Manager of Buffalo)

6. What is the role of the OT committee?

They are supposed to get everything done, but they usually fail and the arriving Sea Org army pushes everything through on an "or else..." basis.

I have quite some horror stories about methods used by RTC personnel to obtain compliance.

7. What kind of tactics are used on public to suck money out of them?

Pushing them like there is no tomorrow until they break and pay - repeated and frequent fundraising events and visits around midnight or around 2-3 AM to "invade privacy" and not leaving without the money.
 

Tom of Helatrobus

Patron Meritorious
Pushing them like there is no tomorrow until they break and pay - repeated and frequent fundraising events and visits around midnight or around 2-3 AM to "invade privacy" and not leaving without the money.

Oh yeah... THAT thing. :duh:

Thanks Thalkirst, I had over 100 views and 1 response, so I guess a lot of other people are curious. I had one last question:

Once the Ideal org is paid for, who OWNS it?
 

Good twin

Floater
Every year at Maiden Voyage a new program is issued to the OT ambassadors. It always has the target of completing the ideal orgs. The OT committees are accountable for attaining completion on this.

It is my understanding that once the buildings are funded, they are purchased by the "Int Landlord" and become the property of CSI or some other SO entity. This is where it gets rather vague. The church (Class V Org) then pays rent to management for the Org that they funded. They also then have to procure funding to build out the premises and furnish it.

None of the Ideal Orgs have maintained any stability in production or expansion as predicted. Someone is bound to catch on eventually. Then of course a new why will be found and blah blah blah. You know the tune......
 

Feral

Rogue male
Once the public and staff fund the purchase of the building the Int Landlord owns it. The org now has to pay rent for the building they raised the money for.

In the ideal org PL can you find the part that directs the purchase of a new building as the first step? I missed it, but I have to admit all the Hubbard books are out in the barn as my wife won't have them in the house any more.:omg: :omg:

I thought the ideal org pl from the data series was more about a busy org with lots of happy PCs and students and a relatively empty qual, not about real estate purchased with the publics money.:confused2:
 

Thalkirst

Patron with Honors
Oh yeah... THAT thing. :duh:

Thanks Thalkirst, I had over 100 views and 1 response, so I guess a lot of other people are curious. I had one last question:

Once the Ideal org is paid for, who OWNS it?

The actual purchase has to occur under close OSA supervision. Eventually, it will be either owned by a legal entity controlled by "Int Mgmnt" or it will be owned by the local Church (especially if it is a registered Church), but CSI or a similar entity will have very powerful rights of it - like you can't sell it or utilize it without their permission.

I have heard at one of the local management coordination meetings that the Budapest Ideal Org building's owner would be a corporation called SOR Services Ltd, an UK-based company, which is the EU representative of mysterious "Sea Org Reserves".

As far as I know, no rent is paid by the org if it was financed 100% locally. If the building has been purchased using IAS monies then full money has to be paid eventually by the org - but it is not a rent, it is a down payment.

Charging rent for a building locally bought would incite a rebellion I guess, and I think DM is smart enough not to cross that line.
 

Thalkirst

Patron with Honors
One more thing about references:

the key PL for the Ideal Org project is NOT the one you mentioned - not HCO PL IDEAL ORGS, as it does not mention the necessity of getting a building.

This was quoted in all programs as the LRH reference for getting a building - HCO PL 2 DECEMBER 1968, GUNG-HO GROUPS where Hubbard says:

QUOTE

CONTRIBUTIONS

The most heavily worked over income point of most civic-minded groups is the obtaining of contributions.

These can be quite sizeable.

They do not however come easily unless the group has a non-profit status and the patron can thereby deduct it from his income tax.

A group, however, that registers as a charity and is a member of existing
non-profit organisations can obtain contributions.

Governments have been known to contribute large sums to groups.

Contributions should be worked at but should be regarded as an irregular source of income and not counted on for the general running expenses of a group. Rather, they are like an affluence, and major projects are the best use for contributions and the best reason to get them - such as a new building for the group or a new hall, things like that.

END OF QUOTE

Pretty weak, isn't it ? Talk about an added inapplicable...
 

Feral

Rogue male
I was told by an ex-cont landlord, and 'justBill's' blog that rent was to be paid. I guess we need a finance person to defect from an 'ideal org' to settle the question.

Pretty weak, isn't it ? Talk about an added inapplicable...

Yeah!!! WTF? That ref. has NOTHING to do with an 'ideal org' yet it is THE ref? :duh: I don't disbelieve you, it just doesn't make sense!

Why has no one 'in' noticed this added inapplicable and spotted that it was deliberately misinterpreted to facilitate a real estate scam?
 

Happy Aberree

Patron with Honors
You got it

One more thing about references:

the key PL for the Ideal Org project is NOT the one you mentioned - not HCO PL IDEAL ORGS, as it does not mention the necessity of getting a building.

This was quoted in all programs as the LRH reference for getting a building - HCO PL 2 DECEMBER 1968, GUNG-HO GROUPS where Hubbard says:

QUOTE

CONTRIBUTIONS

The most heavily worked over income point of most civic-minded groups is the obtaining of contributions.

These can be quite sizeable.

They do not however come easily unless the group has a non-profit status and the patron can thereby deduct it from his income tax.

A group, however, that registers as a charity and is a member of existing
non-profit organisations can obtain contributions.

Governments have been known to contribute large sums to groups.

Contributions should be worked at but should be regarded as an irregular source of income and not counted on for the general running expenses of a group. Rather, they are like an affluence, and major projects are the best use for contributions and the best reason to get them - such as a new building for the group or a new hall, things like that.

END OF QUOTE

Pretty weak, isn't it ? Talk about an added inapplicable...

Right on -- very weak. For those not familiar with the Gung Ho Groups P/L, it is an 11 page policy written purely for the formation and running of a specific type of community group, which is expressly different from an org. It even states within the P/L that these (groups) are not the same as orgs: as orgs handle the first dynamic and the Gung Ho group addresses mainly the third and the fourth.

Gung Ho group does not mean: any group that is 'gung ho', it is an exact thing.

I saw that quote (above) on a set of project orders for an Ideal Org and it rang major alarm bells straight away. It is about as out of context as you can get. The Gung Ho groups only do community-work-type actions (no Bridge stuff, no auditing , no training) which warrants civic groups to make large donations.

HAB
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Why has no one 'in' noticed this added inapplicable and spotted that it was deliberately misinterpreted to facilitate a real estate scam?

Oh, oh, you mean churchies are being scammed and some haven't noticed yet? :)

Paul
 

Happy Aberree

Patron with Honors
Nobody knows...

Yeah!!! WTF? That ref. has NOTHING to do with an 'ideal org' yet it is THE ref? :duh: I don't disbelieve you, it just doesn't make sense!

Why has no one 'in' noticed this added inapplicable and spotted that it was deliberately misinterpreted to facilitate a real estate scam?

IMO the main reasons are that 1) the quote is taken as an excerpt only which is written on the project orders to show prospects (so you don't see the other 10 pages of the P/L) and more importantly 2) not many people seem to be familiar with that reference. I've asked maybe a dozen people about that P/L or just about Gung Ho groups and even though some said that they knew the reference, they couldn't tell me the smallest thing about it.

It's very out-of-context, like enforcing a staff rule on a public person.

Even sillier though, is that even the references called 'Ideal Org' have nothing to with this Ideal Org program.

I no longer have green vols but if someone could help me out with a P/L reference where LRH talks about extremely large targets (I think he uses the analogy of 'moving a mountain' before you can get a product) are not to be used; and he actually refers to them as 'SP targets'. Any takers?

HAB
 

Happy Aberree

Patron with Honors
another gripe

Sorry, one more thing because this program shits me to no end. IMO the main outpoint of the Ideal Org program is it's off on the BE-DO-HAVE. Getting the building first is HAVE-BE-DO (and that's doodoo). I know that's irrelevant from the 'scam' point of view, but that should be very relevant from a scientologist point of view.

HAB
 

Thalkirst

Patron with Honors
I no longer have green vols but if someone could help me out with a P/L reference where LRH talks about extremely large targets (I think he uses the analogy of 'moving a mountain' before you can get a product) are not to be used; and he actually refers to them as 'SP targets'. Any takers?

HAB

The reason the building had to be bought RIGHT NOW according to DM is the following LRH quote from LRH ED 339R:

'And there was another point — it is a different idea: The consideration that it takes a long time to build something is not true. That itself is an aberration, an effort to discourage destruction by pretending creation takes a long time. It took only a few weeks to build the old Saint Hill org.'

So, basically he said in a video'd staff only briefing that few weeks should be enough to build an ideal org, and we don't do it target by target, on a gradient but everything has to be put there RIGHT NOW, with stats going 'straight up and vertical' (his favourite words to describe this).
 

Iknowtoomuch

Gold Meritorious Patron
The reason the building had to be bought RIGHT NOW according to DM is the following LRH quote from LRH ED 339R:

'And there was another point — it is a different idea: The consideration that it takes a long time to build something is not true. That itself is an aberration, an effort to discourage destruction by pretending creation takes a long time. It took only a few weeks to build the old Saint Hill org.'

So, basically he said in a video'd staff only briefing that few weeks should be enough to build an ideal org, and we don't do it target by target, on a gradient but everything has to be put there RIGHT NOW, with stats going 'straight up and vertical' (his favourite words to describe this).



That's also assuming the stats (real stats) are actually going straight up.
The BE-DO-HAVE makes perfect sense. At least pointing it out to a Scientologist.
 

Happy Aberree

Patron with Honors
The reason the building had to be bought RIGHT NOW according to DM is the following LRH quote from LRH ED 339R:

'And there was another point — it is a different idea: The consideration that it takes a long time to build something is not true. That itself is an aberration, an effort to discourage destruction by pretending creation takes a long time. It took only a few weeks to build the old Saint Hill org.'

So, basically he said in a video'd staff only briefing that few weeks should be enough to build an ideal org, and we don't do it target by target, on a gradient but everything has to be put there RIGHT NOW, with stats going 'straight up and vertical' (his favourite words to describe this).

Yeah, see that's loopy. He's buying stats now? But with public's money. Are you sure it isn't the Brooklyn Bridge to Total Freedom?

Here's one:

I've got this great idea everybody -- it's called 'flourish and prosper' and my reference is 'name, want and get your product'. Now I've named it and wanted it (so I've done 2/3 of the work) and all everybody else has to do is the last part (which will only cost you all 10,000 each) for me to flourish and prosper... You can thank me later

HAB
 

Feral

Rogue male
Yeah, see that's loopy. He's buying stats now? But with public's money. Are you sure it isn't the Brooklyn Bridge to Total Freedom?

Here's one:

I've got this great idea everybody -- it's called 'flourish and prosper' and my reference is 'name, want and get your product'. Now I've named it and wanted it (so I've done 2/3 of the work) and all everybody else has to do is the last part (which will only cost you all 10,000 each) for me to flourish and prosper... You can thank me later

HAB

:thumbsup: And that IS THE correct LRH ref. too! All you need to do is write some long pgms and send them to all the OT committees for execution.
 

Happy Aberree

Patron with Honors
Geez I wish I could remember this reference: does anyone know the policy about org expansion targets where LRH refers to "moving mountain" targets as "SP targets"? I only mention it because it directly contradicts the current Ideal Org Pgm.

I think it is a P/L but may be blue on white, or other kind of reference.

HAB
 

Iknowtoomuch

Gold Meritorious Patron
Geez I wish I could remember this reference: does anyone know the policy about org expansion targets where LRH refers to "moving mountain" targets as "SP targets"? I only mention it because it directly contradicts the current Ideal Org Pgm.

I think it is a P/L but may be blue on white, or other kind of reference.

HAB



Whoa there, you're not using policy to stop policy are you??!!
 

petraph33

Patron with Honors
Geez I wish I could remember this reference: does anyone know the policy about org expansion targets where LRH refers to "moving mountain" targets as "SP targets"? I only mention it because it directly contradicts the current Ideal Org Pgm.

I think it is a P/L but may be blue on white, or other kind of reference.

HAB

Hi there, yes, it is actually in the Data Series, where he describes the Major targets, vital targets, operating targets and primary targets. It's somewhere in the beginning of the DS, or in the #40's at the point of writing this program to handle the situation. He also explains there that primary targets are sometting that needs to be in place before any other targets can be done. So this program of ideal orgs is no program at all, it looks like it is one of those "forcing in an ideal scene" SO madness. :melodramatic:
It definitely mentions suppressive targets and gradients in that Policy you mention, but then DM is not one of the best trained and experienced, is he .... :ohmy: :whistling:
 
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