Ideal Org Policy and Practice- Questions

Happy Aberree

Patron with Honors
Hi there, yes, it is actually in the Data Series, where he describes the Major targets, vital targets, operating targets and primary targets. It's somewhere in the beginning of the DS, or in the #40's at the point of writing this program to handle the situation. He also explains there that primary targets are sometting that needs to be in place before any other targets can be done. So this program of ideal orgs is no program at all, it looks like it is one of those "forcing in an ideal scene" SO madness. :melodramatic:
It definitely mentions suppressive targets and gradients in that Policy you mention, but then DM is not one of the best trained and experienced, is he .... :ohmy: :whistling:

Thanks Petra, I think I recall the P/L now.

The last time I spoke with an SO member about the Ideal Orgs he said to me that they are now the pre-requisite for OT IX and X -- not orgs being St Hill Size anymore (this is probably common knowledge to most of you here but it was another shock for me).

I don't think we are too far away from charity-donations being enforced policy... and as the fields shrink further and eat themselves up we should hopefully get many more converts.

I think DM will soon have to do a major overhall or cancellation of many policy-letters. Each new scheme he comes up with takes him further and further from green-on-white and it will soon become obvious for even staunch scn'ists that money is the only priority on the battleplan.

HAB
 
Geez I wish I could remember this reference: does anyone know the policy about org expansion targets where LRH refers to "moving mountain" targets as "SP targets"? I only mention it because it directly contradicts the current Ideal Org Pgm.

I think it is a P/L but may be blue on white, or other kind of reference.

HAB

The reference is HCO PL "OT Orgs" and you nearly quoted it exactly:

" Some guys are so bad off they set targets like "move the mountain" and give one and all a big failure. Since there's no way to do it and probably no reason to either, that's and SP target."

It's actually the same reference being pushed to get the public to come up with this money.

As far as the Org's paying rent, I don't think so. The WHOLE amount of money has to raised to BUY the building out right. Not only the money to buy the building but also the money to handle the reno's of it.

I was told the Company handling the Reno's for the building was the Staubach Company (Roger Staubach's company). Then I was told the Staubach Company had signed a contract to handle all the Reno's for all the Class V Org's in the US. I don't know if that is true but it what I was told by a SO member that should have none weather that was true or not.
 

Happy Aberree

Patron with Honors
Thank you, thank you very much!!

The reference is HCO PL "OT Orgs" and you nearly quoted it exactly:

" Some guys are so bad off they set targets like "move the mountain" and give one and all a big failure. Since there's no way to do it and probably no reason to either, that's and SP target."

It's actually the same reference being pushed to get the public to come up with this money.

As far as the Org's paying rent, I don't think so. The WHOLE amount of money has to raised to BUY the building out right. Not only the money to buy the building but also the money to handle the reno's of it.

I was told the Company handling the Reno's for the building was the Staubach Company (Roger Staubach's company). Then I was told the Staubach Company had signed a contract to handle all the Reno's for all the Class V Org's in the US. I don't know if that is true but it what I was told by a SO member that should have none weather that was true or not.

Thank you Poker Player!!! And thank you for quoting the line as well. That reference is a 'straight flush' of the Ideal Org program. I know this has already been proven undoubtedly but the other references are purely out-of-context and being used to promote the pgm -- whereas the ot orgs reference actually says "Don't do this!" and labels the people doing it as SPs.

I don't mean the regges or the lower staff -- I'm referring to the man at the top who concocted the bloody thing.

Good on ya MAAAATE!!! :thumbsup:

HAB
 
This is a great thread, and I wish I'd read it sooner.

What do you all make of an Ideal Org bought in secret by Scientology-affiliated persons or companies, before the actual regging of rank and file even begins?

That's what appears to have happened in Birmingham (UK).

It's been discussed here previously, so rather than rehash it all I'll just refer to previous threads and existing sources, if anyone who hasn't seen the info would care to look through it and comment:

1) A local councillor's blog, a nice summary of the situation and a different persepective:

http://martinmullaney.blogspot.com/2008/11/concerns-over-pitmaston-site-moseley.html
http://martinmullaney.blogspot.com/2008/11/further-update-on-pitmaston-site-last.html

2) Previous discussion on ExScn:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=8486

3) Same starting point, with some research and raw documentation from various Anonymous folk, including the CoS' approach to a local school for additional funds:

http://forums.brumanon.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=630

Really I'd just like to understand it, in terms of "policy", and who might have the means and authority to carry out such a scheme.
 

Happy Aberree

Patron with Honors
Not sure

This is a great thread, and I wish I'd read it sooner.

Really I'd just like to understand it, in terms of "policy", and who might have the means and authority to carry out such a scheme.

Not sure ETD. You have to remember that most of us are complaining about this because it's OFF-POLICY. From a point of view of having been in a group where policy and Hubbard are viewed as infallible, anything that doesn't to adhere to it/him is a sort of sacrilege (to borrow another religious term).

Int Landlord and Cont Landlord I know are definitely involved posts for any of this, but most of these later pgms (last 20 years) have their own policy which is from INT or RTC and which is really actually orders (as opposed to Hubbard policy) so it is not as available to your average $cn'st as the regular policy, if at all. As far as authority goes, IMO it would have to be at CONT level which would be CLO EU.

Thrak has some good info on this thread -- he may be the one to answer this question.

Just a note though, policy in the church is actually far senior to "orders" from management. The bulk of Hubbard's policy was written in the 60s and into the 70s. Most of the current world-wide management structure and planetary programs now used has come out of RTC or INT. And they often or always do not align with original church policy.

HAB

HAB
 
The whole thing looks like a financial irregularity to me, Dragon, though I only scanned the pages you linked.

However, even though the building is bought the money still needs to be raised to renovate the building and that could be what was going. If they got someone to buy the property and then regged the money to pay off the first person who bought the building, THAT is definitely a finance irreg.

Sec Check the bastards.. lol

The only people who are really going to know here are the people that are directly involved in this.
 

Bird

Patron
I have a few questions.

1) DM is said to personally inspect the ideal orgs before they open for supposed buisness. Did he also inspect the ideal orgs abroad, espescially in Yrup and ANZO?

2) Who does the renovation work? Regular wog contractors or sea org personel? EPF?

2.1) Either way, does the local public also have to raise the money for the the renovation works?

3) Is Int Landlord a separatly incorporated entity or is it an administrative branch of BMS or CSI?
 

scooter

Gold Meritorious Patron
I was told this story by a senior Sydney staff member a number of years ago:

Apparently DM was talking to the ED/CO Milano and she told him that staff were leaving because they weren't being paid enough to survive.

So He then ordered a re-think of the FP so that staff get a decent wage.

At the time, the percentage of money to staff pay rose to 30% of CGI if my memory is correct.

Many staff were suddenly being paid almost average wage here in OZ.

At this point in the conversation, there was an attempt to recruit me back onto staff saying how wonderful it all was and how I wouldn't have to moonlight to support my family as staff were now getting "really good pay.'

I declined, and waited for the bubble to burst.

It didn't last too long - they were desparately moonlighting again within a year at the most.
 

Happy Aberree

Patron with Honors
I remember that

I was told this story by a senior Sydney staff member a number of years ago:

Apparently DM was talking to the ED/CO Milano and she told him that staff were leaving because they weren't being paid enough to survive.

So He then ordered a re-think of the FP so that staff get a decent wage.

At the time, the percentage of money to staff pay rose to 30% of CGI if my memory is correct.

Many staff were suddenly being paid almost average wage here in OZ.

At this point in the conversation, there was an attempt to recruit me back onto staff saying how wonderful it all was and how I wouldn't have to moonlight to support my family as staff were now getting "really good pay.'

I declined, and waited for the bubble to burst.

It didn't last too long - they were desparately moonlighting again within a year at the most.

I remember that Scooter. Was that the same time that they were doing those surveys? Where they would interview ex-staff (maybe any public actually) and the question was: "What is wrong with the Org?" From memory CLO assured all people being surveyed that they could answer totally truthfully (haha as opposed to....? how they usually answer?? hahaha) and that there would be no negative-consequences for enemy-lines against the org.

I was tempted to go along just to speak my piece but (wisely) decided against it -- I could smell another massive recruit campaign in the air. And sure enough... that's what it was. They managed to get a few long-time-out ex-staff back on and the staff that re-joined were really pushing the org again and going on about really high pay now and all sorts of new perks. But it seemed to be just a half-arsed attempt to clean a muddy field by targeting O/Ls.

It didn't fly as usual for the same old reason: the church couldn't deliver the goods. And they reckon that they'll sort out all the staff issues once the buildings are purchased? Hoooboy....:no:

They've just cried 'wolf' too many times, but unfortunately people still come running. A bit sad really.

HAB
 

Wirestripper

Patron with Honors
4. Is there any money kicked in from the SO for ideal orgs? Any kind of matching funds or flat payments from some kind of fund maintained for the purpose? (I feel stupid for asking, but - you know.)

No.....No no no no.

Get that idea right out of your head. As someone married to a senior finance NW official in the past...

"Money going to the lower orgs? HAHAHAH you must be joking [email protected]#$%^!

- Where [email protected]#$%^ = name
 

Thalkirst

Patron with Honors
I have a few questions.

1) DM is said to personally inspect the ideal orgs before they open for supposed buisness. Did he also inspect the ideal orgs abroad, espescially in Yrup and ANZO?

Apparently he does inspect every Ideal Org before it opens to the public - are least he did inspect Madrid and Berlin, that's 100% sure.

2) Who does the renovation work? Regular wog contractors or sea org personel? EPF?

Both. Usually there is a general contractor who does the majority of the work and then certain part of the renos is done by EPF/volunteers (like building the film room etc), furnitures and panels were produced by RPF'ers in the CLO woodshop.


2.1) Either way, does the local public also have to raise the money for the the renovation works?

Definitely, it has be to finance locally.

3) Is Int Landlord a separatly incorporated entity or is it an administrative branch of BMS or CSI?

Int Landlord Office is part of CMO Int, and as far as I know it is part of CSI in a legal sense.
 

Bird

Patron
Apparently he does inspect every Ideal Org before it opens to the public - are least he did inspect Madrid and Berlin, that's 100% sure.



Both. Usually there is a general contractor who does the majority of the work and then certain part of the renos is done by EPF/volunteers (like building the film room etc), furnitures and panels were produced by RPF'ers in the CLO woodshop.




Definitely, it has be to finance locally.



Int Landlord Office is part of CMO Int, and as far as I know it is part of CSI in a legal sense.

Thank you very much for your answers, Thalkirst.
 

OTBT

Patron Meritorious
6. What is the role of the OT committee?

http://www.valleyotc.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=42&Itemid=39

Valley OTC FAQs
Thursday, 05 July 2007
...

WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THE OT® COMMITTEE?

The OT Committee is set up to help organize and channel OT forces, interests and resources for the greatest good for Scientology®. Currently, our objective as delineated by International Management as the greatest good for Scientology is two-fold: 1) 10,000 solo auditors on OT VII; and 2) creating an Ideal Central Org in the (San Fernando) Valley.
...

WHAT DOES THE OT COMMITTEE EXPECT TO ACHIEVE?

Our biggest targets right now are pushing Clears and OT s up to VII and the creation of an Ideal Org for the Valley.
...

An ideal org is a Theta generation plant putting out auditors and Clears into the community. We also help create and work with the Scientology missions and field and volunteer minister groups connected with our local org, and the various secular groups such as Applied Scholastics, Criminon, Narconon, and The Way to Happiness; and, the various betterment groups such as WISE, CCHR, International Human Rights Foundation auditors, etc. LRH said in LRH Ed 102 Int, The Ideal Org "The end product is not just an ideal org but a new civilization already on its way." So…that’s what we expect to achieve—a new civilization.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire

I see that valleyotc site says the Valley is the media capital of the world. However, per Wikianswers at http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_porn_capital_of_the_world the Valley is the porn capital of the world.

Also, that is the first time I've seen in print "the greatest good for Scientology" as opposed to the words "...for the greatest number", although for the greatest good of the cult was always intended.

Paul
 
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