Ideal Orgs - Booming or bust?

S

Steven James

Guest
Talking of Ideal Orgs, I went to take a peak at the Tottenham Court Road testing centre today. I've never visited on foot. Just as I crossed at the traffic lights a few shops down from the Org, a little square white leaflet was thrust into my stomach by a slim young lady with long brown hair. It was so quick that I wouldn't have been able to take it, particularly due to the way in which it was thrust at me- I could see a small red graph on it, so I knew it was an OCA.

The foot traffic on Tottenham Court Road was booming, a really busy day. The pavement seems to be as packed as Oxford Street, if not more dense. I took a peek into the 'test centre'. It looks very different. It reminded me greatly of my first encounter with the Org many years ago. The back of the Org, where the building narrows out, has been re-sectioned off like it was until a few years ago. I could see another staff member from behind walking into this area. I did not recognise her. She was tall with long blonde hair. She wore a beige skirt and the younger lady wore dark blue. The uniforms were very Sea Org.

Outside, there was only one Dianetics table with an e-meter set up. Just inside I could see a screen on the wall to the left with what looked to be the Golden age of Tech micro-phone on it and something black to the left.

It seems the plan to have a hole cut in the floor may have proceeded as I could see a glass, square barricaded about halfway into the building. I could see no public inside, unless other staff members were busy handling them with reg cycles, film showings etc.

The last time I passed the test centre was on foundation time and I could see at least three staff members.

The building looks very luxurious. Ttnham Ct Rd at the lower end is full of electonics shops, around goodge st there is a lot of restaurants, small shops and around the Org lots of furniture shops, cafe's. On one side of the Org I believe there is a Benjy's takeway and on the other some gambling den.

Is it too pristine to communicate to new public? The place looks expensive.
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
Hang on guys....

Here's a simple example. Let's just use one stat, which we'll say is representative of an org's production. At the start of the year, we'll say it's at 100.

One year later, at the end of the birthday game, say it's 500. Wowser, 5x expansion! (we'll assume it's genuine and not a false report). But over the next year, the stat crashes down to 120. Yuckypoo, no birthday game points this year.

Next year, 4x expansion--the stat goes up to 480!!!!! But the following year it slumps a bit to 250. And the following year it slumps to 25.

Next year, woohoo!!! 6x expansion!!! The stat shoots up to 150!!!! But alas, next year it settles down a bit to 100.

In the space of seven years, the org might have won the birthday game in three of those years, with 5x, 4x, and 6x "expansion", but at the end of the seven years the stats are in the exact same range as when they started.

I don't have any specific data about Milano in addition to that given on this thread, but maybe something like that has been going on.

Paul

Every year an org wins the Birthday Game.

No org that I have ever known has "5.4Xed" its stats in a year.

Ever.

The game itself is a points system where points are counted every week for stat conditions. You can have stats go way up and then crash a week or two later, and still accumulate enough points to win the game.

In the end, the game itself really doesn't have a lot to do with stable growth over a period of time.

"Saint Hill Size" is almost kind of a separate issue. "Saint Hill Size" involves haveing a weekly volume, especially of certain stats, that were equal to Saint Hill in the 60s. This has been a funky subject over the years because the Sea Org orgs like AOLA and FSO normally have volumes well over that time period.

Saint Hill was, if not a Sea Org org in those days, the major central org, and it isn't likely that a Class V org is ever actually going to get that big.
 
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OHTEEATE

Silver Meritorious Patron
Saint Hill Size

This is a bullshit stat to begin with. Saint Hill was manned up in 6 weeks with HIRED GUNS from the wog public. LRH used his own money to hire them. There is NO comparison with a real org paying $75 a week for a 60 hour week, trying to retain staff and go Saint Hill Size. It's bull shit. It's lies stacked on lies.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
This is a bullshit stat to begin with. Saint Hill was manned up in 6 weeks with HIRED GUNS from the wog public. LRH used his own money to hire them. There is NO comparison with a real org paying $75 a week for a 60 hour week, trying to retain staff and go Saint Hill Size. It's bull shit. It's lies stacked on lies.

And these non-Scn staff accidentally got 200 students on course?

Paul
 

freet43

Patron with Honors
Every year an org wins the Birthday Game.

No org that I have ever known has "5.4Xed" its stats in a year.

Ever.

"Saint Hill Size" is almost kind of a separate issue. "Saint Hill Size" involves haveing a weekly volume, especially of certain stats, that were equal to Saint Hill in the 60s. This has been a funky subject over the years because the Sea Org orgs like AOLA and FSO normally have volumes well over that time period.

Saint Hill was, if not a Sea Org org in those days, the major central org, and it isn't likely that a Class V org is ever actually going to get that big.

I'm pretty sure I know of an org that did 5X its stats back in the 70s, however will confirm before I say more.

Please define St. Hill Size - ie what are the weekly stats needed to be considered that size? (it has not been easy to find said definition).

Thanks.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
Please define St. Hill Size - ie what are the weekly stats needed to be considered that size? (it has not been easy to find said definition).

I believe the definition has changed over the years. Back in the 80s there was a nice glossy booklet, if I remember it right, with the figures in it, as well as interviews with staff from the period. I think the figures were for the main GDSes (Gross Divisional Statistics). They included 200 full-time students on course, and 1000 WDAHs. I don't remember any other figures. But the stats would probably have included number of full-time staff, GI and maybe GBS, some measure of solvency and reserves, WDAHs and Student Completions, some kind of Quality stat (F/N percentage maybe?), some kind of New People Onto Course Div 6 stat.

Again from memory, didn't 339R talk about maintaining the level of production, not just a single peak? This was the case with "old Saint Hill", from what I remember of seeing stat graphs, but I couldn't guarantee it. This got watered down over the years too.

The only interview I remember a bit of was with Monica Quirino. I had known (and liked) Monica while I was at SH in the 70s. She went uplines somewhere around 1980. All I remember of her interview was her saying that there was not much attention on stats--they got reported at the end of the week and they were usually up, but not a lot of effort was put into "raising the stats", people just got hatted and did their jobs. How true that was, of course, I don't know, but it stuck in my memory as it was so different to SO life in LA in the 80s.

I don't think it started off with a whole long checklist, but I believe one got introduced at some point, including legal ruds and so forth. I mean, you couldn't really have an org being widely promoted as SH Size with huzzahs from Int Management on video at a Birthday Event, and then have the org closed down for not paying the rent or for pissing off the local mayor, could you?

Paul
 

Alan

Gold Meritorious Patron
This is a bullshit stat to begin with. Saint Hill was manned up in 6 weeks with HIRED GUNS from the wog public. LRH used his own money to hire them.

There is NO comparison with a real org paying $75 a week for a 60 hour week, trying to retain staff and go Saint Hill Size. It's bull shit. It's lies stacked on lies.

Where did you get this data from?

It was manned up in about 8 weeks, but from people who did not want to work in local Orgs., at that time there were several hundred people living in the East Grinstead area. SHSBC Grads, and lower level people who came to the area to co-audit.

I even had a part time practice just before the expansion took place, and was booked solid. LRH, MSH and Reg Sharpe sent their friends and kept me supplied with people they wanted me to audit, as there was no HGC at that time.

Alan
 
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Alan

Gold Meritorious Patron
In the LRH ED, LRH himself claimed that SH was manned by wogs that were turned into Scientologists.

LOL! Such a BS artist.

John McMaster, Otto Roos, Irene Dunleavy, Nausbaum, Sharpe, Moira and Nev Chamberlin, Jennie and Herbie Parkhouse, Robin Lindsell, Bill Robertson, Kevin and Jane Kember, Monica and Phil Quirino, Brian Pope, Anton Philips, John Lawrence, Shiela and David Gaiman, Shiela and David Aldrich, Virginia Downsborough, Fred Hare, Joan Thomas, Jan Logan, Joan Oberholzer, Anton and Betty James ..............these are some of the original staff names I remember from that time period who were on staff, almost all veteran Org People.

There were some non-scios.....but not many, mostly in low posts.

Also what was probably omitted was that it was two Orgs, day and foundation. Foundation did a 35 hour and day did a 40 hour work week.

Alan
 
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Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Hang on guys....

Here's a simple example. Let's just use one stat, which we'll say is representative of an org's production. At the start of the year, we'll say it's at 100.

One year later, at the end of the birthday game, say it's 500. Wowser, 5x expansion! (we'll assume it's genuine and not a false report). But over the next year, the stat crashes down to 120. Yuckypoo, no birthday game points this year.

Next year, 4x expansion--the stat goes up to 480!!!!! But the following year it slumps a bit to 250. And the following year it slumps to 25.

Next year, woohoo!!! 6x expansion!!! The stat shoots up to 150!!!! But alas, next year it settles down a bit to 100.

In the space of seven years, the org might have won the birthday game in three of those years, with 5x, 4x, and 6x "expansion", but at the end of the seven years the stats are in the exact same range as when they started.

I don't have any specific data about Milano in addition to that given on this thread, but maybe something like that has been going on.

Paul

You are spot on, Paul.

Malmo Org under Billy in the 1980's perfected that approach - t'was better to have two affluences followed by a danger or non-ex followed by two affluences.. many more birthday game points that way. It also meant absolutely no expansion.

The whole point of my little illustration was to show that Scientologists are unable to see the wood for the trees. For decades we (when we were in) have been fed a steady diet of "uninterrupted expansion", power stats, Highest Evers and yet no-one seems to have any expectation of what that would actually look like if it were happening.

But if you take it out of the 'woo woo" world of Scientology and actually try to view it as it should be in the real world - it just evaporates. If what was being said about Milano org was correct then it should have more attendance and support than the Vatican. The City Council would be stuffed with Scientologists.

But it ain't and no-one inside the Church ever points out that the emperor has no clothes.
 

OHTEEATE

Silver Meritorious Patron
Out and sheepish

Mick, The "out" experience for me has been one of slowly dawning awareness of how goofy Scientology really is. It is looked at as goofy by the rest of the world because the rest of the world does not "buy" PR without substance. If KIA wants to market cars, KIA has to make sure they last, have a repair and support network in place, and they endure and slowly people gain respect. You don't see YUGO around anymore because the commies didn't put nuts on all the bolts. They had a nut shortage that year. No amount of PR makes a YUGO into a BMW. Scientology was put together in seclusion by a guy who was secretly taking drugs, witnessed by personal assistants and the people who cleaned up after him at Creston. He invented a past that glossed over his weak points. He "forgot" his second wife. He was estranged from his third wife through conviction of a felony, and wanted to distance himself from her. Scientology is starting to look like a YUGO dealership. Hurry! $3000 cash! New cars! The ORGs are shiny, and a few have people in them. The numbers are inflated . The press knows it. If the CofS thinks the coverage has been brutal in the past, they will be really dismayed to see how this year and next unfold. MAD TV had a nice bit on TC and the guys being totally nuts. The CofS was positioned with Christiantiy, Islam, and Judaism, with Scientology being a bunch of nuts fronted by an insanely smiling TC. The CofS saw it and probably thought it was good PR as the CofS was positioned with the three major religions, leaving out Buddhism and Hinduism.
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
Per Kristi's site it was LRH ED 339R-1 INT 10 Oct 82 THE MAKE-BREAK POINT OF AN ORG,

That's right. "How Big Was Old Saint Hill?" was a booklet put out by COS. It was majorly for the staff.

It was revised several times. What made an org qualify as a "Saint Hill Size Org" changed over the years.

A lot of additional stipulations occurred. An org had to be fully renovated. All backlogged filing had to be handled. Certain posts had to be filled. (I bet some of the posts that "had to be filled" didn''t even exist during the time of the original Saint Hill.)

I don't remember them all. More and more were added as the years went on.
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
When CCI was deemed Saint Hill Size, the Well Done auditing hours requirement was 1000. At that time, most of those hours were made on the Purification RD. At least 600 came from there, maybe up to 700. And the rest came from the HGC - about 300 - 400. Alot of pressure to keep the WDAHs moving up.

Now they have likely built up their auditors - well, who knows, maybe they all got busted. I have no idea, to tell you the truth. But last I checked, they were doing pretty good number of hours in the chair in HGC. But the Purif was high pressure area, cause it had to keep the org WDAHs above SH size. They actually figured out that they needed 14 Purif starts per week to keep the stat in range. And they did manage to do it too.

The stats I remember for SH Size:

WDAHs 1000
GI 220,000
GIBY (GI divided by number of staff) 1200 (We always beat it)
200 students on course
Letters out (SH size stat, forget the number though)
letters in (never made quota on this one cause there was no way to force it up)
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
When CCI was deemed Saint Hill Size, the Well Done auditing hours requirement was 1000. At that time, most of those hours were made on the Purification RD. At least 600 came from there, maybe up to 700. And the rest came from the HGC - about 300 - 400. Alot of pressure to keep the WDAHs moving up.

Now they have likely built up their auditors - well, who knows, maybe they all got busted. I have no idea, to tell you the truth. But last I checked, they were doing pretty good number of hours in the chair in HGC. But the Purif was high pressure area, cause it had to keep the org WDAHs above SH size. They actually figured out that they needed 14 Purif starts per week to keep the stat in range. And they did manage to do it too.

The stats I remember for SH Size:

WDAHs 1000
GI 220,000
GIBY (GI divided by number of staff) 1200 (We always beat it)
200 students on course
Letters out (SH size stat, forget the number though)
letters in (never made quota on this one cause there was no way to force it up)

The $220,000 GI, I am sure, was made up by management. No way Old Saint Hill in the 60s was bringing in $220,000 a week.

Seems like all the orgs have ways of "padding" the hours. ASHO counts co-audit hours on the Briefing Course. The AOs and Flag count the Solo hours.

Interesting about keeping up the Purif starts. I remember a marketing person in the SO when I was there looking over CCI's completion lists and commenting on how many Purif comps they had, but how few of those comps went on to complete any further service.
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
The $220,000 GI, I am sure, was made up by management. No way Old Saint Hill in the 60s was bringing in $220,000 a week.

Seems like all the orgs have ways of "padding" the hours. ASHO counts co-audit hours on the Briefing Course. The AOs and Flag count the Solo hours.

So what counted on SH's hours back in the 1964-66 period? Did it include SHSBC co-audit hours in addition to HGC hours?

And the GI stat would have been inflation-corrected. Per a calculator here, roughly speaking, divide that figure by twelve to account for UK inflation from 1965 to 2005.

Paul
 
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