If I get my money back will my sister have to disconnect from me?

[Good twin]

Regardless of policy. My friend Kat was declared when she got her repayment and she was declared before she ever logged on to any of the SP internet sites. So she hadn't spoke out against the church or any other such activity.

My other friend who got repayment of $200,000.00 was never declared that I know of, but I was told specifically that I should disconnect from her by two different staff members.

Of course neither of the two staff members knew that that I already knew that she had requested the repayment since the Flag Deputy Chaplain had called me to get my help in trying to recover her before they paid her. Needless to say I failed miserably in my attempt to salvage her, so she got her repayment and I'm the only (Ex)Scientologist who still talks to her.

But of course I am not even a real ExScientologist according to you SOS. I'm making this shit up just to piss you off.

 

[Feral]

"Asking for and receiving either repayment and refund will lead to a declare."


Sorry, feral, your statemt is false!
Show me the policy that says that.
Are you trying to scare the OP or are you trying to promote hate and false propaganda
toward SCN?

Can't be bothered with it SOS.

'Specially as your status, right next to your avatar is "Known Troll"

 

[shadow]

"Asking for and receiving either repayment and refund will lead to a declare."


Sorry, feral, your statemt is false!
Show me the policy that says that.
Are you trying to scare the OP or are you trying to promote hate and false propaganda
toward SCN?

Must be sad to see only these 2 options. I can think of lots of others....
Constructive discussion so OP can make an informed decision.
Ignore it all and move on to cake.
Take the whole family so there is no one to disconnect.
etc.

 

[freethinker]

If you are close enough to your sister, I would ask her if she would disconnect from you. If she says she wouldn't. I would have her write a letter saying that and sign and date it.

Then if the chuurch says she is voluntarily disconnecting, you would have the letter as proof that she would not and proof the church still practices disconnection.

Have it notarized.

 

[freethinker]

HCO PL Suppressive Acts, Suppression of Scientology and Scientologists; OEC Vol I; Pg 876,

"Demanding the return of any or all fees paid for standard training or proccessing actually received or received in part and still available but undelivered only because of departure of the person demanding (the fees must be refunded but thre policy applies)."


His statement is true.

"Asking for and receiving either repayment and refund will lead to a declare."


Sorry, feral, your statemt is false!
Show me the policy that says that.
Are you trying to scare the OP or are you trying to promote hate and false propaganda
toward SCN?

 

[apple]

My experience was this: I asked for my money on account, back in the 80s. It took awhile but I got it with the help of government agencies.

I still talk with my scientology friends. I never recieved a statement saying that I was an SP, but then I moved around alot at that time, so maybe they sent it but I never recieved it. One Scn. friend was bothered that I asked for my money back and it came up in his auditing at Flag. After him going to ethics because of my status, it was agreed that I was not an SP just PTS. That is what he told me later on.

BREAKING NEWS: as I was typing this I got a phone call from one of my Scientology friends. He told me that he is done with Scientology. He now sees it as a money grab. Totally unhappy with Flag. Tired of being followed and reged all the time especially when at Flag. Tired of them always asking for money, seems that they always need money even though there are limos outside the door. Everything is overpriced at Flag, rooms would be something like $200 plus a night and the cheapest is $65 a night. Where you could go to a local motel and get a good room for a fraction of that price. Reges would follow him to his room, notes put under his door,everyone else on staff trying to reg him also. He said it is not the Scn. that he knew years ago. Good news! I congratulated him, but he is not ready to read about Scn on the net, I say its just a matter of time.

 

[freethinker]

Congrats!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Voltaire's Child]

"Asking for and receiving either repayment and refund will lead to a declare."


Sorry, feral, your statemt is false!
Show me the policy that says that.
Are you trying to scare the OP or are you trying to promote hate and false propaganda
toward SCN?

It's what they do. It's common practice. I mean, show me the policy that says women in the SO have to have abortions or that people should be talked into looting their IRAs or mortgaging Grandma's house- yet it happens.

 

[Reasonable]

HCO PL Suppressive Acts, Suppression of Scientology and Scientologists; OEC Vol I; Pg 876,

"Demanding the return of any or all fees paid for standard training or proccessing actually received or received in part and still available but undelivered only because of departure of the person demanding (the fees must be refunded but thre policy applies)."


His statement is true.

but my services were not received or were not received in part either. They were not received at all. i never started any service. the money is simply on account. so does this apply?

 

[looker]

Umm I dunno, a refund is more Inn yer face, a Repay its about the same from my experinece. Its Like, " but its booked before Tuseday at 2". But why do you you need yer money? for your mom's funeral? Well wait I'll CSW that, and let you know. Months later youll get a letter and have to re submit since its stale dated. Expct 3 to 4 of these.

Yes its the org who has to reg NEW money to pay you back. The old money for Stats has all ready gone to DM Never to be seen again. It's a one way flow.

Shheesh!!!

 

[Kookaburra]

but my services were not received or were not received in part either. They were not received at all. i never started any service. the money is simply on account. so does this apply?

Doesn't matter. They will make it apply. They are not giving out many official declares these days. They are bad PR. But they do write them and show them around to everyone but you, they tell Scientologists who they are not allowed to talk to. If they do not have evidence for a declare they make it up, and tell everyone you know about what a horrible person you are.

Talk to your sister. She is what you have to lose. How deeply is she involved? Is she impressionable....ie will she take their orders or will she defend her right to talk to her own family members, regardless of their religious beliefs or their opinion of Scientology. My earlier suggestion stands. Get your sister out, or at least looking at all the information, then make your move. It is allowing Scn to control you to a degree using the disconnection threat, but you can turn it to your advantage if you play your cards right.

 

[Freeminds]

With Scientology shrinking steadily, and with very little in the way of 'raw meat' nowadays, any repayment scheme based on raising money from the current membership is going to involve waiting longer and longer. Operating in this way makes Scientology a pyramid scheme, and we all know what happens to those.

Getting reged for refunds will hurt the remaining Scientologists, but it might wake them up and get them out. Especially if they know that all they're paying for nowadays is refunds and out-of-court settlements. (And if they do get out, that'll put them on the bottom rung of the repayment ladder...)

I'm curious to know just how much can be reclaimed, given the extensive use of terms such as 'donation' in CofS literature? Anyway, get your money. It's pretty much the only thing Scientology ever wanted from you, and withholding it is just about the only thing you can do that might make a difference.

As for disconnection, please remember that it's a one-way disconnection. Just because your friends and loved ones are hoodwinked, it doesn't mean you have to be! Please, please don't accept the disconnection. Keep on writing to those loved ones: you might just provide the lifeline that gets them out and on the road to better mental health. Remember, you don't have to criticize Scientology to undermine it. All you have to do is talk about happy, 'normal' stuff like leisure time, family, humour and good food. This is 'entheta' because a victim of Scientology can't have those things. You don't have to set yourself up in opposition to their belief system; you just need to show them it's possible to be 'out' and functional. Send them a postcard each time you go on holiday, if nothing else.

 

[apple]

FREEMINDS stresses a good point. When I decided to to get out, one of my Scn friends said that they would have to disconnect from me and that I was not to talk to their non-scn parents who I knew all my life. I told them it is their choice but I will never disconnect from them or their parents and made a point of visits whenever I could.

 

[xseaorguk]

earlier post about guy being bugged by staff and reges

I knew an OT in the 80's who had a 'Wog-Job', earning a decent wage, and was one of the few OT's around. I found it weird that if you rang him on the phone he always listened in first to see who it was, when I asked about this he explained it was because the Org and Flag pesterred him constantly about buying more stuff and auditing.
So much for telepathatic skills huh.....!!

 

[Zinjifar]

I knew an OT in the 80's who had a 'Wog-Job', earning a decent wage, and was one of the few OT's around. I found it weird that if you rang him on the phone he always listened in first to see who it was, when I asked about this he explained it was because the Org and Flag pesterred him constantly about buying more stuff and auditing.
So much for telepathatic skills huh.....!!

They had higher OT regges negating his OT Caller ID

Zinj

 

[freethinker]

First of all, my response was to show SOS that she was wrong and Kevin was right.

Disconnection is applied in policy for a PTS to disconnect from an SP to make case gain or keep what you have.

Contrary to what is written in policy, it is not always followed to the letter and is interpreted or twisted to suit the goal of the one applying it. I call this stretch to fit policy.

There is also hidden (not public) policy on disconnection which has the intent of cutting off anyone from harming or exposing Scientology for what it really is - A SHAM.

This can go further from merely disconnecting to attacking and destroying the threat or potential threat by any means, no matter what or what the cost.

So by asking for your money back comes the risk of being disconnected from your sister. It may or may not happen but getting money back increases the possibility greatly. That's why you should talk to your sister first.

If you think she will disconnect from just by talking to her about it then you have to make a decision - The money or your sister.

I would hope you could have both. It all comes down to what is most important to you or how clever you are.

but my services were not received or were not received in part either. They were not received at all. i never started any service. the money is simply on account. so does this apply?

 

[Atalantan]

They usually expell people who get their money back though I've heard of times where they had not. So they would be told to disconnect from you.

The cult also forces people to disconnect when the other party isn't expelled and declared but is in "serious ethics trouble" or summat.

They are assbags.

Not only that, their asses sag, too.

 

[oneonewasaracecar]

If you are close enough to your sister, I would ask her if she would disconnect from you. If she says she wouldn't. I would have her write a letter saying that and sign and date it.

Then if the chuurch says she is voluntarily disconnecting, you would have the letter as proof that she would not and proof the church still practices disconnection.

Have it notarized.

That is a really good idea.

My experience was this: I asked for my money on account, back in the 80s. It took awhile but I got it with the help of government agencies.

I still talk with my scientology friends. I never recieved a statement saying that I was an SP, but then I moved around alot at that time, so maybe they sent it but I never recieved it. One Scn. friend was bothered that I asked for my money back and it came up in his auditing at Flag. After him going to ethics because of my status, it was agreed that I was not an SP just PTS. That is what he told me later on.

BREAKING NEWS: as I was typing this I got a phone call from one of my Scientology friends. He told me that he is done with Scientology. He now sees it as a money grab. Totally unhappy with Flag. Tired of being followed and reged all the time especially when at Flag. Tired of them always asking for money, seems that they always need money even though there are limos outside the door. Everything is overpriced at Flag, rooms would be something like $200 plus a night and the cheapest is $65 a night. Where you could go to a local motel and get a good room for a fraction of that price. Reges would follow him to his room, notes put under his door,everyone else on staff trying to reg him also. He said it is not the Scn. that he knew years ago. Good news! I congratulated him, but he is not ready to read about Scn on the net, I say its just a matter of time.

Nice.

 

[clamicide]

From my experience in dealing with people that refund, the org staff are petrified of people that refund. No-one wants to handle the cycle. When I went into the Morg and said that I wanted to refund, everyone avoided me like the plague from then on. That was the last I heard from most of them. The calls that I received after that were from staff that had not heard that I was refunding, and they very quickly ended the conversation when I told them.

For anyone that wants to get the Morg off their backs, I strongly recommend asking for a refund/repayment, even if you don't get the money back, it is worth the effort.

From my experience, whenever someone started looking at a refund/repayment, org staff was ordered to stay away from them. It was usually not stated exactly why, but they would be ushered in to see proper terminals in an orchestrated way. They'd be brought back during muster or whatever and escorted out through lower traffic areas. You'd sometimes hear through the grapevine that there was such a cycle, but usually there was a little briefing about how they'd gone totally out-ethics or something. It was very important to keep staff members from having contact with these people. Then, when a refund or repayment came through...the ED would give a snide remark about how staff pay was low that week because of the entheta or suppressive whatever that this out-ethics scumbag was involved in that fucked up our pay--but, it showed that we were winning, because the SPs were trying to bring us down.

So, yeah. We weren't allowed to talk to folks who were even asking for the money, and unless they were "handled", you sort of never heard of them again. I've seen pc's and students ordered to disconnect simply because the family were "sources of trouble". When I was in, it was sort of a no-brainer: you knew you'd be screwed if you talked to someone 'so far gone' they were asking for their money back. Quite soon after I left, someone I knew had been hauled into ethics because his brother was talking about a repayment as his (the brother's) wife had a problem with all their money going to Scientology. He was ordered to disconnect and he was a public who wasn't even taking a service at the time. So, he did. The brother was later "recovered" and ended up divorcing his wife instead. So, big happy win for the stupid cult. I'd lay odds on disconnection.

 

[Ogsonofgroo]

Clamicide>

Then, when a refund or repayment came through...the ED would give a snide remark about how staff pay was low that week because of the entheta or suppressive whatever that this out-ethics scumbag was involved in that fucked up our pay--but, it showed that we were winning, because the SPs were trying to bring us down.

I are sooooo surprised! I am never ceasing to be amazed by A) Their reluctance to cheerfully refund your money if not satisfied (like wtf is the problem eh? I've seen refunds promised, in writing, on a few of their 'contracts' (and no, don't bother with dox or stfu, go look it up yourself), and if I am not mistaken even the ol' windbag hisself said "give 'em their money back" not 'Make it so fucking diffiCULT that they'll give up with it', which maybe not so when considering the actual practices of CoS via the over-all policies, ie. the one-way rabbit hole that patron's funds seem to disappear into, to the tune of over a billion dollars in cash and assets. Can't pay decent living wages? Oh yeah, keep 'em poor and enslaved, that's the ticket!)
B) Bawwing about crappy pay. Guess what? Its designed to keep you hungry and, as a hungry person, much easier to manipulate into un-ethical actions (this is my assertion by observation of given facts), ala LRon. No medical, no dental, (oh yah, ya don't need it, you haz shooper-dooper powahs!..... ), no social security for your retirement (but then, there really isn't much of a plan there anyhoo is there? Work till your useless then go die/EOC, how convenient!), and heaven help ya if you get sick, run out of credit, or make a fuss about being treated like a pawn.... oh wait.... you were/are... no never mind there, complaining is totally against policy and potential trouble, meaning that you haven't been damaged/conned enough to go 'Woo-hoo, I is being saved!'~ Back to 'ethics with you!'
Finding yourself in a pile of poop? Seems the most used 'tech' is pass the crap off onto some one else asap and let your fellow adherants take the rap.
The only clear thing Hubbard was concerned about was clearing people's wallets of all that useless money, who needs it when there is a greater life ahead (in your next billion years blah-blah-blah) :confused2: you'll be well looked after when you return for your next shift on the dog-pile. Riiiiiight.
Amazing how materialism is shot down by them what lives like kings.
Do not question, do not doubt, do not laugh, trust the mighty mind of Dr. Hubbard to make you free......

My little afternoon ranty thingy (yes I know this is pretty general take and doesn't apply to everyone, just my thoughts on the matter atm.)