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If the Data Series Ruled the World

What the hell were you two talking about?

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In my opinion people who have been heavily indoctrinated into Scientology fall for Hubbard's way of defining things by combining metaphors and synonyms. Hubbard used it alot, and in my opinion Study Tech fortifies the process. So when Hubbard says "reality is agreement" he is saying that what people agree on is reality. Therefore, reality is agreement. But this is false.
Agreement is a conscious effort to accept something. It has nothing to with reality and whether or not a person agrees with reality. Agreement is an aspect of their acceptence or not of reality, but it isn't reality. That's how Hubbard tricks people and when I see that thinking pattern pop-up in front of me I like to challenge it.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 

nozeno

Gold Meritorious Patron
In my opinion people who have been heavily indoctrinated into Scientology fall for Hubbard's way of defining things by combining metaphors and synonyms. Hubbard used it alot, and in my opinion Study Tech fortifies the process. So when Hubbard says "reality is agreement" he is saying that what people agree on is reality. Therefore, reality is agreement. But this is false.
Agreement is a conscious effort to accept something. It has nothing to with reality and whether or not a person agrees with reality. Agreement is an aspect of their acceptence or not of reality, but it isn't reality. That's how Hubbard tricks people and when I see that thinking pattern pop-up in front of me I like to challenge it.

The Anabaptist Jacques

Oh.

I'm so happy you can think and talk freely now. I guess it's time for me to shed the image I have of you strutting around the room as a bad ass course supervisor, pushin' those completions with that all too cool clipboard on your hip.


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Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
But, for a Scientologist, 'reality is agreement' is an axiom and *must* be meaningful. So, any discussion runs in circles around 'how' it could be considered meaningful.

Like the rationalizations a stage-hypnotized subject will create to explain why, although he's a chicken, he has no feathers.

Zinj
 
Oh.

I'm so happy you can think and talk freely now. I guess it's time for me to shed the image I have of you strutting around the room as a bad ass course supervisor, pushin' those completions with that all too cool clipboard on your hip.


arg-dancing-bears-on-black-url.gif

Watch the details, please. I'm still incognito, and possibly a wanted man.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 

lionheart

Gold Meritorious Patron
In my opinion people who have been heavily indoctrinated into Scientology fall for Hubbard's way of defining things by combining metaphors and synonyms. Hubbard used it alot, and in my opinion Study Tech fortifies the process. So when Hubbard says "reality is agreement" he is saying that what people agree on is reality. Therefore, reality is agreement. But this is false.
Agreement is a conscious effort to accept something. It has nothing to with reality and whether or not a person agrees with reality. Agreement is an aspect of their acceptence or not of reality, but it isn't reality. That's how Hubbard tricks people and when I see that thinking pattern pop-up in front of me I like to challenge it.

The Anabaptist Jacques

But, for a Scientologist, 'reality is agreement' is an axiom and *must* be meaningful. So, any discussion runs in circles around 'how' it could be considered meaningful.

Like the rationalizations a stage-hypnotized subject will create to explain why, although he's a chicken, he has no feathers.

Zinj

Exactly. Hubbo dumps another element of cognitive dissonance on us in this subject of reality/agreement. On the one hand what we "agree" to is "reality"; yet also what we disagree with (resist, "not-is", fail to view, etc) is reality because the resistance/disagreement makes something persist! :confused2:

As scientologists we dance on the head of a pin to reconcile these opposing concepts.

The question is did Ron do this deliberately to make us confused and malleable or was he himself, confused about "reality".

Because "reality" is such a confused subject to a scientologist the "data series" can be used to prove/disprove either version of "reality" (reality = agreement or disagreement :duh: )
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
Now that I notice that there was a reaction to idea that “Reality is Agreement,” maybe I can clarify my view of REALITY.

To me, reality is what one views, feels and senses. Reality is what is inflowing through one’s perceptions. It is WHAT IS. It may be referred to as IS-NESS.

Now one may respond to it in different ways. One may agree with it, one may disagree with it, one may feel angry at it, or frustrated about it, throw shoes at it, or whatever. Those are all responses to the reality. Or, one may analyze it before responding to it, and that is where Data Analysis comes in. Data represents reality.

Now reality may be different for different persons simply because they are holding different viewpoints physically and emotionally. There will be differences, similarities and also identities among what is viewed from different viewpoints.

Now, when one says, “Reality is agreement” one is not defining reality, but one is proposing a theory how reality comes about. This is a totally different subject. This subject has been the basis of many philosophies and also of religions. Theories abound in this area. A very popular theory has been that of “God.” “Reality comes from God.”

So, I think what Hubbard was saying was, “Reality comes from agreement,” when he said, “Reality is agreement.” This is just my take. You may view it differently.

So, the statement that one should examine is, “Does reality come from agreement? And what is meant by agreement in this case?”

I don't take this statement at its face value. It simply needs to be examined. This is "Data Analysis" of reality, or an analysis of the nature of data itself. :)

:yes:
 

lionheart

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yes, and that is much easier to do without using the Hubbard concepts which are booby-trapped little packages of suggestive ideas.

Using the term "is-ness", whether one intends it or not, triggers in, for self and others, all the first few non-evident scn axioms and one is playing the mind game Hubbard wanted us to play, assuming things are self-evident that in fact are far from self-evident, but are instead simply ideas created by Hubbard to tell you what to think about yourself and scn.

I think Jaques said this earlier in the thread using his own words.

Look at the explaining and clarification that has been needed on here just because the Hubbard implanted idea of "reality is agreement" was used.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
The Data Series does not attempt to explain reality.

That was never its scope or purpose.

Anyone who tries to get the data series to explain, or even help explain, reality has just driven the truck off the edge of the road, and run us into a ditch.

Who's getting out to push this thread back on track?

Vinaire?

Definitely.

Nexus!

TAJ!!

Get out there and post something on the Data Series and let's get this show back on the road!

b472f7e0.jpg
 

lionheart

Gold Meritorious Patron
The Data Series does not attempt to explain reality.

That was never its scope or purpose.

Anyone who tries to get the data series to explain, or even help explain, reality has just driven the truck off the edge of the road, and run us into a ditch.

Who's getting out to push this thread back on track?

Vinaire?

Definitely.

Nexus!

TAJ!!

Get out there and post something on the Data Series and let's get this show back on the road!

b472f7e0.jpg

"The Data Series does not attempt to explain reality. "

Oh yes it does! :coolwink:

"That was never its scope or purpose."

Oh yes it was! :roflmao:

This has been entirely on-topic and interestingly the thread has "evolved" in much the same way as the Data series itself does.

It started off simple and became more and more complex and esoteric, just as the Data Series does.

No surprise there! It was set up as a thought-control mechanism to influence behaviour and bring about Hubbard's "reality". :yes:
 

Rene Descartes

Gold Meritorious Patron
For vinaire and fluffy,

I bet the two of you could do just fine without ever using the data series for the rest of your lives.

Or at the very worst if you do end up using a particular facet, you think the thought that you learned that particular thing by observation, studying numerous materials over your life and drawing your own conclusions on what you saw and read.

Rd00
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
Well there seems to be a lot of reaction to the terminology, which Hubbard used. I don’t care what scope or purpose Hubbard gave to Data Series.

I would like to examine what scope and purpose I can give to Data Series and salvage what is useful. I know that was not the original purpose of this thread but what the heck… I like to think for myself rather than just react to the past.

To me DATA is a representation of REALITY; and DATA ANALYSIS is the analysis of reality as it affects one. To me, reality is what one views, feels and senses. Reality is what is inflowing through one’s perceptions. It is what one is experiencing.

My take on Data Series is what I said here:

Post # 69

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Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Well there seems to be a lot of reaction to the terminology, which Hubbard used. I don’t care what scope or purpose Hubbard gave to Data Series.

I would like to examine what scope and purpose I can give to Data Series and salvage what is useful. I know that was not the original purpose of this thread but what the heck… I like to think for myself rather than react to the past.

To me DATA is a representation of REALITY; and DATA ANALYSIS is the analysis of reality as it affects one. To me, reality is what one views, feels and senses. Reality is what is inflowing through one’s perceptions. It is what one is experiencing.

My take on Data Series is what I said here:

Post # 69

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Vinaire.

You are infinitizing again.

Stop it.

Now post something concrete about applying the data series from your days as a Programs Chief. I want to smell the dust on the folders you used, to see the streams of light coming in from the actual window you had in the office you worked in. I want to know the exact, real life orders you were given and the actual real life steps you used to carry them out. I want to know the conversations you had as you did your invest, whether you used the phone, or whether you "brought a body". Did anyone blow up? What did they say, exactly, what did they look like?

What was the temperature in the room?

What was the weight of the pencil in your hand as you wrote your final draft.

How did it go over politically?

Did you have to make any concessions or compromises? (Real Life, please)

We're gonna get this thread back on line over dead bodies if we have to...

My God. We've got four hours before the whole of ESMB is going to be shut down! We're headed for the rocks!!

Someone needs to start screaming!!!

Start!
 
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Vinaire

Sponsor
Vinaire.

You are infinitizing again.

Stop it.

Now post something concrete about applying the data series from your days as a Programs Chief. I want to smell the dust on the folders you used, to see the streams of light coming in from the actual window you had in the office you worked in. I want to know the exact, real life orders you were given and the actual real life steps you used to carry them out. I want to know the conversations you had as you did your invest, whether you used the phone, or whether you "brought a body". Did anyone blow up? What did they say, exactly, what did they look like?

What was the temperature in the room?

What was the weight of the pencil in your hand as you wrote your final draft.

How did it go over politically?

Did you have to make any concessions or compromises? (Real Life, please)

We're gonna get this thread back on line over dead bodies if we have to...

My God. We've got four hours before the whole of ESMB is going to be shut down! We're headed for the rocks!!

Someone needs to start screaming!!!

Start!

I can't help but be myself.

Are you trying to brainwash me? That is what they tried to do in Sea Org, but did not succeed.

.
 

nexus100

Gold Meritorious Patron
I am still struggling with your statement, "Data does not exist." If that is the case then how can you communicate? How can you even discuss "Data Series?"

Please provide your definitions for the following:

DATA
EXISTENCE

Or, do these definitions not exist even... :duh:

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My vocabulary consists of simple, country words as used in the vernacular by common people; absent the airs put on by words that think they have something to prove, that they're more important than everybody else, that they have some specialized definition that common "dictionary" words can never reach up to. I use the kind of words you can have over for dinner without worrying about them snickering under their breath at your serving ware.

If my words aren't good enough for you, then pardon me, but we'll be just fine a sittin' here on the porch a whittlin', watchin' the moon rise over the barn, and discussin' the relationship between life and the physical universe like ordinary folk.

Ma, pass tha' jug, willya?
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
I can't help but be myself.

Are you trying to brainwash me? That is what they tried to do in Sea Org, but did not succeed.

.

All I'm saying is that you could be a very valuable contributor to this thread by showing HOW the data series was used at the highest levels in the Church.

Real life stories down in the trenches with Ron and the Data Series...

I think that would be very interesting and informative for us all.

Don't you?
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
All I'm saying is that you could be a very valuable contributor to this thread by showing HOW the data series was used at the highest levels in the Church.

Real life stories down in the trenches with Ron and the Data Series...

I think that would be very interesting and informative for us all.

Don't you?


I know that the first analysis that I did was on getting Scientology Study Tech in India. It was not even in Data series format but followed the basic concepts as I understood them. It was written as a Daily report to LRH. There I proposed not to promote Scientology as a religion in India.

That "Daily Report" got approved by LRH and issued as Aides Order 263 in 1974. I don't think it was ever followed by Scientology management. Today Scientology is being promoted as a religion in India and nobody much cares for it. It is a total failure there.

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Vinaire

Sponsor
My vocabulary consists of simple, country words as used in the vernacular by common people; absent the airs put on by words that think they have something to prove, that they're more important than everybody else, that they have some specialized definition that common "dictionary" words can never reach up to. I use the kind of words you can have over for dinner without worrying about them snickering under their breath at your serving ware.

If my words aren't good enough for you, then pardon me, but we'll be just fine a sittin' here on the porch a whittlin', watchin' the moon rise over the barn, and discussin' the relationship between life and the physical universe like ordinary folk.

Ma, pass tha' jug, willya?

I hope you can find somebody who can understand you. More power to you.

.
 
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