I'm Losing my Friend to this Cult!!

[Snow White]

Hi everyone. This is my first post, though I've been looking around here for the past week.

My story in a nutshell (and intentionally somewhat vague): My parents were in Co$ for many years. They were deeply involved to say the least, but luckily for me, they left when I was a child. They did not leave quietly and were consequently declared. The damage it caused to their marriage and the residual effects it has had on my life has driven me to learn as much as possible about the cult. I have investigated orgs and missions all over the world trying to understand why my parents joined, why they stayed so long, and why this cult is still around.

It had been a couple of years since I had done more than Internet browsing about Co$ when I reconnected with a good friend who is a Scientologist. He knows about my family background and yet we have been able to have a good friendship by agreeing to disagree. Still, I would gently and diplomatically bring up concerns, being careful to make sure he felt that my questions only came out of concern and ultimately, as long as he was happy, so was I. However, he has recently joined staff. This broke my heart. His involvement and commitment are rapidly increasing, and I am feeling an increasing sense of urgency to develop a stronger approach. I know that he considers me one of his best friends and that he still values my opinions. I am looking for any thoughts, comments, or suggestions. He is a great guy and I see his life slipping away from him more and more each day.

Thank you for reading this.

 

[Miss Pert]

Welcome Snow White!!!!

I am sorry your friend has joined staff, having been there myself I hope that he realises his mistake sooner rather than later.

 

[gerry]

It had been a couple of years since I had done more than Internet browsing about Co$ when I reconnected with a good friend who is a Scientologist. He knows about my family background and yet we have been able to have a good friendship by agreeing to disagree. Still, I would gently and diplomatically bring up concerns, being careful to make sure he felt that my questions only came out of concern and ultimately, as long as he was happy, so was I. However, he has recently joined staff. This broke my heart. His involvement and commitment are rapidly increasing, and I am feeling an increasing sense of urgency to develop a stronger approach. I know that he considers me one of his best friends and that he still values my opinions. I am looking for any thoughts, comments, or suggestions. He is a great guy and I see his life slipping away from him more and more each day.

Thank you for reading this.

Just be strong and let him feel your strength

PS:
Welcome to esmb

 

[dchoiceisalwaysrs]

Welcome Snow White

I understand the concern! Do you know what specifically is pulling your friend INTO the CoS? Is he good at observing life around him and seeing when it is obvious others are twisting the "facts" ?

A lot of people leave the CoS because they object to something or somethings that they know exist within that Box. There used to be a comic "there aught to be a law" which commented on things that were just plain wrong.

What does your friend object to in society that are also occurring in the CoS?

Does he know that many OTVIIIs have left the organization?

All the best, and just remember, of over 20 some million Dianetics books sold and supposedly 12 or more million people who have bought something or inquired, there are somewhere well less than 100,000 maybe only 20,000 Scientologists in the world. And I would say the odds are he won't be there long. Carmel I think did a great write up of a how she and others were able to talk to very involved scientologists and got them to make a decision to leave

 

[Good twin]

When you say you feel you must take a stronger approach, I assume you feel you must make a stronger stance against the cult. I really wouldn't advise that.

If you put pressure on him and it is effective at all, he is bound to mention it to someone and will be told he must "handle or dissconnect". If you just hang back and be his non threatening friend he will be able to see the contrast in your life and his. He will think of you as someone he can turn to when he has doubts about the church.

Just continue to be there for him. He's gonna need a friend.

 

[Smilla]

Welcome

 

[GreyWolf]

Hi Snow and welcome. I agree with the others and say that you cannot come out strong against the cult on this one. You can make some quiet suggestions or ask some leading questions. But that's about all. Also, and I hate to bring this up. There will be a time in sec-checks that your name and family will come up and at that time he will most likely be told that he needs to dis-connect from you.

Bob

 

[uniquemand]

VISIT YOUR FRIEND. Every time my friends or family visited with me, while I was a staff member, I felt very defensive. I knew what I was doing was "too much, too soon", and this brought it into stark relief. I fought with them. I argued with them. I showed them around.

STAY IN TOUCH. Don't let the busy-ness of your friend get in the way. What causes people to get crazy is the degree to which they are insulated from the rest of the world: they replace their friends with scientology.

CHALLENGE ABSURDITIES. Don't challenge his beliefs, but if he makes ridiculous statements like "psychs are responsible for the destruction of society", ask him to explain. Ask for evidence. Don't call him stupid or crazy, but point out that the belief he is touting is not grounded in evidence, and is apparently not true. That sort of thing.

 

[Wisened One]

When you say you feel you must take a stronger approach, I assume you feel you must make a stronger stance against the cult. I really wouldn't advise that.

If you put pressure on him and it is effective at all, he is bound to mention it to someone and will be told he must "handle or dissconnect". If you just hang back and be his non threatening friend he will be able to see the contrast in your life and his. He will think of you as someone he can turn to when he has doubts about the church.

Just continue to be there for him. He's gonna need a friend.

And I agree, even though THIS method cam feel like you are doing *nothing* and takes LOTS of patience and calmness both in your own life and theirs, it's one of the best approaches. Your friend is gonna do what they're gonna do no matter what others say....ya know? :confused2:

 

[Blue Spirit]

Web Sites

Tell him that LRH says that one of the oldest tricks in the universe is to tell
someone that it isn't OK or safe to "look over there".

Then recommend that he read maybe six choice websites.
Three choice ones:

www.robertdam-cos.dk/

friendsoflrh.org

scientology-cult.com

If he reads these and has any ability to be objective and look, he'll leave.

If not, do you want him as a friend anyway ?

Good luck.

 

[Div6]

There is much to be gained (in the mind of a true believer), particularly when faced with a potentially catastrophic economic meltdown, in the solace of group membership and contribution. Given the COST of "going OT" within the orthodox church (apart from the impossibility of "buying freedom") joining staff seems an attractive thing to do.

EXCEPT, that they do not deliver on what they promise.

So, a true friend is one that sticks around when things are bad....

Staff are supposed to survive on ALL dynamics.
Abandoning one for another is not 'survival'.

Its surrender.

What goals of his own is he giving up on?

 

[Snow White]

A Little More Information. . .

Wow. You guys are awesome. . . thank you so so much for your suggestions and warm welcome. Ex Scientologists are truly some of the best people ever.

Anyway, let me give you all a little more info. First of all, when I said I wanted to figure out a "stronger approach" I did not necessarily mean I would be coming out stronger against Co$ to my friend. . . I really worded that poorly! What I meant was that I feel more of a need for a game plan--whether that be to continue exactly what I'm doing, voice my concerns more aggressively, or completely stop voicing any concerns at all. Part of where I'm stumped is that I find that where we may have only spent 30-50% of the time talking about Co$, it is now dominating 75% or more of our discussions. He talks to me excitedly about signing people up for staff, or how he had an amazing win, etc., and I feel confused about how to respond. Should I say, "That's great! Congratulations!" In the past I have tried to be very supportive, with responses such as, "I'm glad to hear you are having a good experience." However, now that he is talking about his and the church's "wins" much more often, I'm feeling unsure of how to respond.

Some of the advice you all have given has been great. . . it was good to see that my MO thus far has been pretty aligned with all your suggestions. I even went with him to Birthday Games the other day to show my support for him and because, Hell, I was really curious.

As for my friend, without revealing to much of his identity, I will say that that he has been in Co$ for around 12 years. He's not yet clear and joined staff recently. He seems over the moon about it and is thrilled about the new push to get public Scientologists on staff. I have brought up my fear up him being asked to disconnect from me once he joined staff, and he assured me that I haven't come up in auditing and that it wouldn't happen as I'm the farthest thing from "supressive." In fact, there is a part of me that wants them to tell him to disconnect from me because I think that might have some amount of impact on him. We hang out, text, or talk on the phone several times a week, and he is always wanting to hang out more. We really have a great (platonic) connection.

As for why I think he joined, his goals, etc.--First of all, he definitely likes to feel like he is "part" of something, especially if he is told that he is an important part. He eats up praise and validation, and truly loves to feel like he is helping others. That's just a quick reason that jumped out on me.

His goals: I want to be vague, but I will say that he has always dreamed of being on the production side of movies.

From what I've read in the comments so far, I think the basic jist of my approach starting now will be to try to talk less about Co$, let him enjoy the freedom and fun and silliness of our friendship so he can contrast that with his experience on staff and so that if he's told to disconnect it will feel all the more crazy. However, if he says something flat out nuts I will respond honestly, but warmly. I'm still figuring it out though so please give me your input. I have read and really given though to ever comment so far.

You guys are Wholetrack Wins!!!!!

 

[FinallyFree]

Hi everyone. This is my first post, though I've been looking around here for the past week.

My story in a nutshell (and intentionally somewhat vague): My parents were in Co$ for many years. They were deeply involved to say the least, but luckily for me, they left when I was a child. They did not leave quietly and were consequently declared. The damage it caused to their marriage and the residual effects it has had on my life has driven me to learn as much as possible about the cult. I have investigated orgs and missions all over the world trying to understand why my parents joined, why they stayed so long, and why this cult is still around.

It had been a couple of years since I had done more than Internet browsing about Co$ when I reconnected with a good friend who is a Scientologist. He knows about my family background and yet we have been able to have a good friendship by agreeing to disagree. Still, I would gently and diplomatically bring up concerns, being careful to make sure he felt that my questions only came out of concern and ultimately, as long as he was happy, so was I. However, he has recently joined staff. This broke my heart. His involvement and commitment are rapidly increasing, and I am feeling an increasing sense of urgency to develop a stronger approach. I know that he considers me one of his best friends and that he still values my opinions. I am looking for any thoughts, comments, or suggestions. He is a great guy and I see his life slipping away from him more and more each day.

Thank you for reading this.

This is a hard one. He will only leave through his own effort and interest. The best advice I can give you is to be open and honest about your position on scientology and to give a great example of someone who is NOT a scientologist.

 

[Snow White]

P.S.

I'm really worried about someone in CoS reading this and putting it together. Maybe I am being too specific.

 

[practice]

I'm really worried about someone in CoS reading this and putting it together. Maybe I am being too specific.

They've got too many problems to worry about you. Plus, you haven't said anything that might make you identifiable yet IMO.

I really feel bad for your friend. If he's joining staff *now*, then he is going to have the emptiness of the orgs shoved in his face constantly, but he probably won't discuss it with you because, like all Scientologists, he is trained to always put on a good front to non-Scientologists. You probably saw yourself, how few people showed up to the Birthday Event. Whatever you do, don't abandon him!!

 

[R6Basic]

Welcome Snow White, love the nickname.
This may help. I was on staff for 5 1/2 years. Even from my first day I had some doubts. scilons (people in scientolgy) are always going on about how fast the cult has expanded but I never saw in my area.

Also it was really clear that most public weren't really winning in life. One thing that a public pointed out was "How can I know if my life is any better? The only place I ever am is here. Only people I talk to is staff."

So my advice is keep your ears open for any doubts your friend might have, now that he's on staff he'll probably notice that things aren't ran exactly like what the policy letters say they should. LRH will state one thing but that isn't happening at org or mission. Anything like that give you the chance to say "Well, that doesn't seem right." Let it go and let the seed of doubt grow.

It sounds like you've got some pretty good strategies in place.

 

[Mest Lover]

Really, don't worry too much, that is how they want you to feel and how they hide the truth.

 

[R6Basic]

This is a hard one. He will only leave through his own effort and interest. The best advice I can give you is to be open and honest about your position on scientology and to give a great example of someone who is NOT a scientologist.

yes, leading by example. Scilons are always told that 'Out There' is crazy it's one of the reasons people stay on staff for so long even when they don't really like it. They 'know' that it's worse out side, full of wogs who can't complete cycles of action and sleep walk through their life. If you can keep your friend connected to real world then they will know that wogs are people too and this world has got on just fine without Scn.

 

[Snow White]

Whatever you do, don't abandon him!!

Don't worry. . . I will NEVER do that, and if the day comes that he does disconnect from me, I will tell him that I still care about him so so much and that even he disconnects from me, I will never disconnect from him, and I will always be here for him.

I'm still wondering what to say when he excitedly tells me he has signed someone up for staff or that he has just had a major win in auditing. I don't want to collude with him, but I want to remain supportive and not make him feel defensive.

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

<snip> I'm stumped is that I find that where we may have only spent 30-50% of the time talking about Co$, it is now dominating 75% or more of our discussions. He talks to me excitedly about signing people up for staff, or how he had an amazing win, etc., and I feel confused about how to respond. Should I say, "That's great! Congratulations!" In the past I have tried to be very supportive, with responses such as, "I'm glad to hear you are having a good experience." However, now that he is talking about his and the church's "wins" much more often, I'm feeling unsure of how to respond. <snip>

Join a golf club and pester him right back with golf shit!

Blegh.. The situation is typical. His 'enthusiasm' will blow over though...

Maybe when he finds out the costs..

Ask him what the intire 'bridge' will cost him.. He'll have to inquire about it in the org.. Which will make the staff there suspicious. (They'll think he's 'attacking' them for just asking about that.)

I think a good estimate will be almost half a million dollars. (Maybe someone knows exactly? - But it'll always be much more expensive than the plan.)