What's new

I'm sorry!

Once bitten

Patron Meritorious
I'm also sorry to the two little girls who were nieces of a man I was auditing. This man was sexually molesting the girls who were 1 and 3 at the time he was receiving auditing. I had to fly his ruds extensively before each auditing process, as he was committing overts in PT.

I was never told not to audit him, and I'm sorry I didn't fight this. I'm sorry I didn't tell the Director of Tech Services to go fuck herself, and report this guy to the police.

I often think about those wee girls and how they fared in life. They would be in their late 20s now. I'm probably the sorriest about this than about anything else in the whole world.
 

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
I'm also sorry to the two little girls who were nieces of a man I was auditing. This man was sexually molesting the girls who were 1 and 3 at the time he was receiving auditing. I had to fly his ruds extensively before each auditing process, as he was committing overts in PT.

I was never told not to audit him, and I'm sorry I didn't fight this. I'm sorry I didn't tell the Director of Tech Services to go fuck herself, and report this guy to the police.

I often think about those wee girls and how they fared in life. They would be in their late 20s now. I'm probably the sorriest about this than about anything else in the whole world.

Even if you were essentially "powerless" in this situation, should not the C/S have done something about it? ANY continuing overt in PT is unacceptable to the best of my knowledge.
 

Martini

Patron Meritorious
Even if you were essentially "powerless" in this situation, should not the C/S have done something about it? ANY continuing overt in PT is unacceptable to the best of my knowledge.

Tech will not go in when ethics is out. Add to that this is a heinous crime, still on-going at the time the pc is telling it. So yes, the C/S should have done something about it. It's a tricky situation, to be sure, with the Auditor's Code protecting the pc from discipline. But one can still take measures as a C/S to get the pc to knock off the out-ethics. No way would I have let this continue if it was a pc I was C/Sing. That is not the optimum solution at all. :no:
 

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
Tech will not go in when ethics is out. Add to that this is a heinous crime, still on-going at the time the pc is telling it. So yes, the C/S should have done something about it. It's a tricky situation, to be sure, with the Auditor's Code protecting the pc from discipline. But one can still take measures as a C/S to get the pc to knock off the out-ethics. No way would I have let this continue if it was a pc I was C/Sing. That is not the optimum solution at all. :no:

What protection? I got a whole bunch of KRs based on session material.
 

Once bitten

Patron Meritorious
It's all very well saying what SHOULD have happened and what a C/S SHOULD have done, but we all know that when you have a pc who's got the money for auditing, and when the WDAHs are of all importance, the C/S's hands are tied. Even the C/S has to answer to the Tech Sec, and she wants her WDAHs come hell or high water. The WDAHs were being delivered, albeit in flying ruds for the most part, and that's the essence of the whole thing isn't it? Stats and money. Who gives a flying fuck what overts the pc is committing as long as he is handing over his $$ and WDAHs are being delivered.

This wasn't the only pc I audited who was committing overts in PT. There were many more. It was something that was condonded 100%.
 

Martini

Patron Meritorious
It's all very well saying what SHOULD have happened and what a C/S SHOULD have done, but we all know that when you have a pc who's got the money for auditing, and when the WDAHs are of all importance, the C/S's hands are tied. Even the C/S has to answer to the Tech Sec, and she wants her WDAHs come hell or high water. The WDAHs were being delivered, albeit in flying ruds for the most part, and that's the essence of the whole thing isn't it? Stats and money. Who gives a flying fuck what overts the pc is committing as long as he is handing over his $$ and WDAHs are being delivered.

This wasn't the only pc I audited who was committing overts in PT. There were many more. It was something that was condonded 100%.

My word was law for my org when it came to technical matters. Any C/S who doesn't have his lines set up that way shouldn't be on the post.
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
Sounds like reasonableness, to me. If a C/S thinks that the tech is out, he shouldn't have routed the PC to session, he should have routed them to ethics. Anything else is crap.
 

Martini

Patron Meritorious
When it was discovered by a senior that a Div 6 course supervisor was sexually molesting a child (he was a teacher outside the org), I conducted a thorough metered ethics interview on him and wanted to have him arrested. OSA jumped in, said no police, an SP declare was issued and he was gotten off the lines.

I am sorry I didn't call the police myself.
 

Once bitten

Patron Meritorious
My word was law for my org when it came to technical matters. Any C/S who doesn't have his lines set up that way shouldn't be on the post.

Well that's all very virtuous Martini, but I'm not sure that you understand what was going on 25 years ago in Sydney. No person's word can be 'law' in an org, and if someone attempts to say 'my word is law' then that person is open for all sorts of attacks. Look what happened to you anyway! Comm Eved and crimes made up about you as well as personal info from your folders exposed for all to see.

I get really sick of do-gooders who profess that things should have been this way or that when they obviously don't have a clue what was going on or the pressure staff were under to get the stats up. I am not attempting to lay blame on anyone, I am simply saying sorry. I worked under a great C/S when I was auditing and I was a good auditor. I also still have a lot of respect for the Tech Sec as well despite what was going on. We were all under orders. THis is my point.

This particular order being paramount: 'Stats are more important than routing criminals off lines'.
 

Martini

Patron Meritorious
Well that's all very virtuous Martini, but I'm not sure that you understand what was going on 25 years ago in Sydney. No person's word can be 'law' in an org, and if someone attempts to say 'my word is law' then that person is open for all sorts of attacks. Look what happened to you anyway! Comm Eved and crimes made up about you as well as personal info from your folders exposed for all to see.

That was because I left. They were very bitter. Worse than a woman scorned. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, except in the cult of scientology.

I get really sick of do-gooders who profess that things should have been this way or that when they obviously don't have a clue what was going on or the pressure staff were under to get the stats up.

Of course I have a clue - staffs the world over receive that kind of pressure, not just Sydney in the 70s. I can tell you with no doubts whatsoever that your C/S was a disgrace based on what you've said. He should hang his head in shame over allowing the crimes to go unchecked. He should have never been in charge of directing case handlings. Tech Secs have other concerns, but not the C/S. That's why there is supposed to be an Ivory Tower.


I am not attempting to lay blame on anyone, I am simply saying sorry.

Very well done for doing so. I understand and just want to point out your C/S was very remiss in his duties. Grossly so.

I worked under a great C/S when I was auditing and I was a good auditor. I also still have a lot of respect for the Tech Sec as well despite what was going on. We were all under orders. THis is my point.

This particular order being paramount: 'Stats are more important than routing criminals off lines'.

I understand. A similar thing happened with OSA in my org (see other post.) Had I not followed OSA's order, I would have been in serious trouble. I wish I had called the police.
 

Once bitten

Patron Meritorious
Of course I have a clue - staffs the world over receive that kind of pressure, not just Sydney in the 70s. I can tell you with no doubts whatsoever that your C/S was a disgrace based on what you've said. He should hang his head in shame over allowing the crimes to go unchecked. He should have never been in charge of directing case handlings. Tech Secs have other concerns, but not the C/S. That's why there is supposed to be an Ivory Tower.

Maybe he is. I don't even remember who the C/S was. It might have even been a she. Who knows. It doesn't much matter really, I disagree with you about insisting that he should hang his head in shame. Only the people who were there knows what went on.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

You have some very fixed ideas about things Martini, and I feel sorry for you. Blame is a terrible thing and no one should cast the first stone unless he is without sin himself.

Compassion is needed in a situation such as this. That's why we are here. Maybe the C/S is sitting on the fence right now lurking and deciding whether to leave the church. If he/she reads some of your judgemental posts I think he/she will decide it's probably safer to stay in the cofs.
 

Martini

Patron Meritorious
Maybe he is. I don't even remember who the C/S was. It might have even been a she. Who knows. It doesn't much matter really, I disagree with you about insisting that he should hang his head in shame. Only the people who were there knows what went on.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

You have some very fixed ideas about things Martini, and I feel sorry for you. Blame is a terrible thing and no one should cast the first stone unless he is without sin himself.

Oh, I've sinned. I've even shared some on this thread. Mainly, I just had to voice my feelings about that C/S. He made a big mistake there. I've certainly made some, too.

Compassion is needed in a situation such as this. That's why we are here. Maybe the C/S is sitting on the fence right now lurking and deciding whether to leave the church. If he/she reads some of your judgemental posts I think he/she will decide it's probably safer to stay in the cofs.

If that C/S is reading this, he's already out or headed that way very soon.

It's much sunnier out here, away from the cult. I hope he joins us.
 

ttamaad

Silver Meritorious Patron
Martini, take your message to another thread. This is a thread where people are saying sorry, you are changing the dynamics of this thread to bring in your own agenda (yet again)

In another thread you posted that threads drift and you were leaving .

Here you still are, changing the course of threads when it the thread doesn't suit your way of thinking. Threads don't drift... they are changed from their original context. You have an excellent knack at this...

So make your own thread and leave those that want to apologise for their personal actions to do so... it is of no business of yours to denigrate that
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Martini, take your message to another thread. This is a thread where people are saying sorry, you are changing the dynamics of this thread to bring in your own agenda (yet again)

In another thread you posted that threads drift and you were leaving .

Here you still are, changing the course of threads when it the thread doesn't suit your way of thinking. Threads don't drift... they are changed from their original context. You have an excellent knack at this...

So make your own thread and leave those that want to apologise for their personal actions to do so... it is of no business of yours to denigrate that

Absolutely agree! Well stated. :thumbsup:

And good on the posters who have told their stories. It takes courage and integrity, and as far as I am concerned, you have that!:clap:
 

Martini

Patron Meritorious
Martini, take your message to another thread. This is a thread where people are saying sorry, you are changing the dynamics of this thread to bring in your own agenda (yet again)

In another thread you posted that threads drift and you were leaving .

Here you still are, changing the course of threads when it the thread doesn't suit your way of thinking. Threads don't drift... they are changed from their original context. You have an excellent knack at this...

So make your own thread and leave those that want to apologise for their personal actions to do so... it is of no business of yours to denigrate that

I think it's a great thread topic. Perhaps you'll chime in with something.

I was merely answering this question from another poster, and then some debate ensued over the duties of a C/S. NO BIG DEAL. Chill out.

Carry on with the thread.

"Even if you were essentially "powerless" in this situation, should not the C/S have done something about it? ANY continuing overt in PT is unacceptable to the best of my knowledge."
 

Once bitten

Patron Meritorious
Martini, take your message to another thread. This is a thread where people are saying sorry, you are changing the dynamics of this thread to bring in your own agenda (yet again)

In another thread you posted that threads drift and you were leaving .

Here you still are, changing the course of threads when it the thread doesn't suit your way of thinking. Threads don't drift... they are changed from their original context. You have an excellent knack at this...

So make your own thread and leave those that want to apologise for their personal actions to do so... it is of no business of yours to denigrate that

Yeah. Well put ttamaad. Thanks

:thumbsup:
 

KnightVision

Gold Meritorious Patron
I'm Sorry

I'm not crawling up anyone's ass here - I'm just wanting to apologize to some, for some of the things I did while 'in', that I now regret.-snip-

Apology Accepted. An important Understanding. Excellent Realization.
 
Last edited:

Carmel

Crusader
Hey Gen,

I know where you are coming from on both of these instances you posted. As has been mentioned on this thread, we were all part of the game, and whether aware of it or intentional or not, having a different persepective on it as time goes by, can be a bit of a bitch when it first hits you and you can't turn back the clock.

Well I'm sorry to the gentleman who didn't want to sign up for any more auditing, whose house David Bloomberg and I visited and virtually broke into and man-handled him back to the reg to get him to sign up for more auditing. He was eating his breakfast of mince on toast, and we wouldn't even let him finish his breakfast.

He signed up for another 25 hours and we thought we were doing him a favour.

Sorry. I can't remember your name, but I'm very very sorry.
I did a similar cycle when my partner in crime and I were helping the AO go St Hill size.

I was ED of Sydney Day at the time. At nights and weekends for the last couple of weeks before target date, we were in the AO working with Sandy Wilhere the mission I/C, Moana (the Captain) and the reg'es (Rob, Anita and Co).

Sandy hadn't been sleeping at all, and she was carrying the world on her shoulders. Prior to this time, she had backed me up big time in regard to SO terminals who were trying to by-pass me on running the org. On her prior visits to ANZO I didn't like her at all (or I fell out with her on several issues), but on this visit she had been a saving grace for sure, and her influence got some mothers off my back.

I wanted the AO to reach the St Hill size target, but honestly though, my motivation to help was more about supporting her. :duh: The pressure was huge, it was the last day (Wednesday evening), and the GI was short. We had a better comm line with those in the field than the reg'es did, and if anyone could pull it off, it would be us.

We mocked up a cycle, and headed off to the blue mountains at about 12.30am. We got to our destination at about 2am, and woke up an unsuspecting couple. We laid it all on the line - our desperation in regard to the AO target, his 'need' for NOTS, etc. They weren't ready to do the cycle, but we pushed the point. Because of the respect they had for us, and our persistence, they gave in and agreed to do the cycle.

On the drive home, we talked about it. We didn't feel the best, but we justified it all the way back I think.

That couple know who they are. I don't know if you they are still on lines or not, but if and when they ever get to read this, I want them to know that I am truly sorry for what went down that night, and that it's fair enough if they are still pissed off with us about it.


I'm also sorry to the two little girls who were nieces of a man I was auditing. This man was sexually molesting the girls who were 1 and 3 at the time he was receiving auditing. I had to fly his ruds extensively before each auditing process, as he was committing overts in PT.

I was never told not to audit him, and I'm sorry I didn't fight this. I'm sorry I didn't tell the Director of Tech Services to go fuck herself, and report this guy to the police.

I often think about those wee girls and how they fared in life. They would be in their late 20s now. I'm probably the sorriest about this than about anything else in the whole world.
I remember this. I know you were quite disturbed about it at the time, that you had a major dilemma about it, and at the time, whichever action you took would have been an 'overt'. I think it was the same at the time for the C/S - priest penitent privilege stuff, 'we deliver what we promise' etc. From our current perspective it all seems clear now, but as they say, hindsight is a wonderful thing. The fact remains though, that while he may have been refused auditing, you (just like a Catholic priest) wouldn't have had the right to notify the authorities.

Realize that the statute of limitations doesn't apply to this stuff. There are individuals who are now out, who are willing to speak up. There are a few cases that have been brought to light in recent times. While this case that you have mentioned was not a 'cover up' (so to speak) by you or the C/S, it may well have been one of the cases that was a 'cover-up' on the part of OSA, which is something that there is intent on dealing with. While that won't or didn't prevent the girls from further harm, at least getting this stuff out in the open, could well help prevent future protection of paedophiles by the CofS.

Love,
Carmel
 
Last edited:

A.K. Myers

Patron with Honors
I am sorry for all of the preclears hours I helped them waste trying
to get their ruds in following horrible reg cycles. By the time some
of the preclears were hustled into session by stat hungry d of p's
they were stuck in horrendous present time problems or tremendously
arc broken.

It is one thing to be told you need a certain rundown, wheedled into
paying for it when you can't afford to, then wasting the hours you
just paid for to do correction lists, that keep going on because the
pc is upset they are having to do correction lists when all they want
is their next step on "the bridge."

When I started auditing hours cost $35. There were packages that sold
by result (I.E. Life Repair Package). By the time I left the "church," auditing
was closer to $350 per hour. Pcs having to sell their cars to buy their next
intensive, then having the PTP of being unable to get to work. Totally
nuts and I went along with it.

Senebty,
 
Top