IMPORTANT: RINDER and other senior Scientology executive strata

petraph33

Patron with Honors
I dont remember the name. But it was from CLO EU. From when the German attacks were heavy. Right around when Hamburg was going SH size.

Wow, I would be interested in that! I was staff in CLO EU from 1989 til 2001.... Can you be a bit more specific? What else do you remember.... :unsure:
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
Wow, I would be interested in that! I was staff in CLO EU from 1989 til 2001.... Can you be a bit more specific? What else do you remember.... :unsure:

I was told by the person who we both know and PMed about, the one who is going back into the church now. (You know who I mean). He gave me the name, but I dont know the person, and did not remember the name. He would know. But I doubt he would say. He told me the whole story.
 

petraph33

Patron with Honors
Yes, Bea I know who you are referring to, but I am not sure what he is referring to as we were both working in CLO in the same office at that time. Can you give a few more hints as to the situation, you can PM me if you want. I am really interested in this now. Thanks....
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
I was told by the person who we both know and PMed about, the one who is going back into the church now. (You know who I mean). He gave me the name, but I dont know the person, and did not remember the name. He would know. But I doubt he would say. He told me the whole story.

What is the whole story?
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
What is the whole story?

I think the whole thing is about someone in a particular situation who was told to immitate a 'blown' Scientologist in order to 'infiltrate' some outside group (enemies!). Nothing new or particularly surprising there; the 'Church' has done that many times. (Which is one reason new-exes sometimes get a rough reception.)

The one Bea mentioned is just a particular case and is just being discussed out of (local) curiosity.

The concept itself came up in the discussion of the (possibly) blown Mike Rinder, probably with the implication that Mike might be 'playing blown' for similar reasons.

Personally, I doubt that, and, although it's not 'proven', I think it's higly likely that Rinder *is* blown, considering the circumstantial reports and evidence. Even if Sneaky wants an affidavit before he'll accept the liklihood... :)

Zinj
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
I think the whole thing is about someone in a particular situation who was told to immitate a 'blown' Scientologist in order to 'infiltrate' some outside group (enemies!). Nothing new or particularly surprising there; the 'Church' has done that many times. (Which is one reason new-exes sometimes get a rough reception.)

The one Bea mentioned is just a particular case and is just being discussed out of (local) curiosity.

The concept itself came up in the discussion of the (possibly) blown Mike Rinder, probably with the implication that Mike might be 'playing blown' for similar reasons.

Personally, I doubt that, and, although it's not 'proven', I think it's higly likely that Rinder *is* blown, considering the circumstantial reports and evidence. Even if Sneaky wants an affidavit before he'll accept the liklihood... :)

Zinj

Well, I ask because getting the whole story and all the details that can be remembered can be very helpful for people getting out of the cult, and for those who are helping them straighten out their lives.

So, the following questions are meant to help jog Bea's memory:

1. What year was this? How long was he posing as an Ex-Scientologist?

2. What org or persons from that org ran the undercover Scientologist? (Who did he report to?)

3. How did he report to them? Was there a specific mission he was given, or specific information he was supposed to get?

4. What things did the undercover Scientologist say or do that ended up valuable to the Church? Was he "successful"?

4. Do you know of any internet forums that the person was on?

5. Did he pose as someone else?

6. What was his "shore story?" What kinds of things did he say or do that gained the SP's and Exe's confidence?

7. Was he handling some kind of ethics cycle to do this? Why did he do it?

8. Was he rewarded at all when he came back "out of the cold", as they say?

9. Do you know of anyone who was hurt by his activities, or any valuable information that the Church gained from what he did?

10. Is there anything else that you may have remembered about it as you went over these questions?
 
T

TheSneakster

Guest
not important
 
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Bea Kiddo

Crusader
Sorry I dont have answers for all of those questions. All I remember was that person was European. Likely from the CLO. The person was brought uplines from EU and was there for a while, then suddenly got SP declared. He was put into the field in Germany as an openly anti Scientologist, to get info and report back. I do not have info on how he went about doing it. I do not know if he was married, but I do know that he had other family in the SO and they had to disconnect from him (they did not know that he was not actually declared - the facade was complete, including hiding it from his own family).

I believe he did finally return to the SO.

This was when Germany was a big thing. When was that Petraph?
 

petraph33

Patron with Honors
Sorry I dont have answers for all of those questions. All I remember was that person was European. Likely from the CLO. The person was brought uplines from EU and was there for a while, then suddenly got SP declared. He was put into the field in Germany as an openly anti Scientologist, to get info and report back. I do not have info on how he went about doing it. I do not know if he was married, but I do know that he had other family in the SO and they had to disconnect from him (they did not know that he was not actually declared - the facade was complete, including hiding it from his own family).

I believe he did finally return to the SO.

This was when Germany was a big thing. When was that Petraph?

Well, they must have kept that well under wraps. I do not remember anything about that now in the mid 80's until the mid 90's where I surely would have known about it if anyone at cont level knew about it as I was part of the Network and strategic meetings and all that. The time when Germany was a big thing was end of the 80's till mid 90's and from then on really. :unsure: It could have been in the mid 90's when the new command teams came into the CLOs.... I was still and exec in the FOLO then, but no longer part of the "in the know" kind of people as such. Hope that helps?
 

lionheart

Gold Meritorious Patron
This sort of undercover operation is not new.

When I was declared in '82 there was an active network of dissidents. We passed tape briefings amongst each other from the likes of Capt Bill and others who had info on the CMO takeover and mission-busting.

I was contacted out of the blue by an old friend posing as being an ex-scn. I was so pleased to hear from an old friend that I visited them immediately. It was a pleasant re-union.

Years later I met another old friend who was now out, but had been in during the other incident. This person told me that the first old friend had been working undercover for the GO/OSA to find out who was doing what in the dissident network.

This sort of activity is entirely logical and predictable given Ron's and the Church's paranoia.
 

petraph33

Patron with Honors
This sort of undercover operation is not new.

When I was declared in '82 there was an active network of dissidents. We passed tape briefings amongst each other from the likes of Capt Bill and others who had info on the CMO takeover and mission-busting.

I was contacted out of the blue by an old friend posing as being an ex-scn. I was so pleased to hear from an old friend that I visited them immediately. It was a pleasant re-union.

Years later I met another old friend who was now out, but had been in during the other incident. This person told me that the first old friend had been working undercover for the GO/OSA to find out who was doing what in the dissident network.

This sort of activity is entirely logical and predictable given Ron's and the Church's paranoia.

Yes, Sure, but who would go that far to actually declare someone "for real" with disconnection from family and all, to go "underground"?? Anyone?? :ohmy:
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
Yes, Sure, but who would go that far to actually declare someone "for real" with disconnection from family and all, to go "underground"?? Anyone?? :ohmy:

Mmmmm.... any dedicated SO member would do it. I would have, given the opportunity. We never thought about ourselves or our family. Only the church and its survival. i know many dedicated SO members who would do it. I would be surprised at someone who refused.
 

Kookaburra

Gold Meritorious Patron
I know someone who did it in the 70's and infiltrated the WFMH. They had to disconnect from every Scientologist they knew, they had a code name to report to the GO. This went on for years. Until the GO was disbanded I think.
 

MarkWI

Patron Meritorious
I would be surprised at someone who refused.
Spot light on him for "not being on purpose".

"Undercover operative with the mission to destroy the evils and save the world!"

Wow! What a fascinating beingness to assume! I would have too.


I was linstening at some of the AAC tapes recently and I was amazed to hear Bob Mithoff partecipating at graduations "Bob Mithoff completed Advanced Ability 5. Congratulations! ..."

Bob Mithoff was one of the plant that helped destroying Mayo's AAC.

Here some of the story by Jesse Prince:

"Once David Mayo was off staff he decided to start his own church, the Advanced Ability Center (AAC), that was an alternative to Scientology and used many of the same techniques used by LRH. At this point David became the target for "fair game." DM became infuriated and ordered Mayo's new group to be destroyed using all means possible. Bob Mithoff, brother of Senior C/S Int Ray Mithoff, was placed by RTC in David Mayo's new church as a plant to obtain financial and critical legal information to forward a planned attack on his group. Week after week Bob Mithoff provided financial information to RTC concerning Mayo's new group. The fact of the matter is Mayo had drawn a good amount of people who were ex-Scientologists to his new church and was making $20,000 to $30,000 gross income every week. This was better than most Scientology Class 4 organizations. Mithoff stole a copy of the AAC's mailing list and provided it to RTC. Within four months of its inception, AAC had a standard newsletter it mailed to its adherents.
With the stolen mailing list RTC operative Gary Klinger designed a similar newsletter that contained disparaging information concerning AAC to the same mailing list. This list was used by RTC to contact members of the AAC for the purpose of harassment and intimidation.

Mithoff also stole a copy of the NOTs materials that David Mayo had rewritten, and he provided it to RTC. At one point before her "suicide" Flo Barnett, David Miscavige's mother-in-law, became a member of the AAC. More black operatives were sent into the AAC by RTC. Black operations included renting the office above Mayo's AAC to electronically bug him. At one point private investigator Gene Ingram was hired to pose as an investigative reporter and Mayo was duped into believing he was participating in a TV program to promote his new group. Through Mithoff, it was learned that David Mayo planned to travel abroad to Europe. Through investigator Gene Igram, it was arranged to have Mayo stopped at customs as a suspected drug dealer, which did happen, and he was detained for hours based on false information by European customs officials. Gene Ingram received his instructions on these matters from Gary Klinger, an executive in RTC." (Whole story here)

David Mayo lectures may be downloaded from here.

M
 

lionheart

Gold Meritorious Patron
Spot light on him for "not being on purpose".

"Undercover operative with the mission to destroy the evils and save the world!"

Wow! What a fascinating beingness to assume! I would have too.


I was linstening at some of the AAC tapes recently and I was amazed to hear Bob Mithoff partecipating at graduations "Bob Mithoff completed Advanced Ability 5. Congratulations! ..."

Bob Mithoff was one of the plant that helped destroying Mayo's AAC.

Here some of the story by Jesse Prince:



David Mayo lectures may be downloaded from here.

M

And still we get "innocents" like Petraph33 asserting that this sort of thing didn't and doesn't happen! :melodramatic:

I have to admit that in my time in Scn I would have become a disconnected operative to save and clear the planet. I would have had doubts about the ethics of it, but would have convinced myself that it was for the greatest good.

A similar thing was done to Robin Scott who "acquired" the NOTs materials.

The story of how he got them is very funny and demonstrates the robotic idiocy of Hubbardites. I knew the people involved at the time and so I know it is true.

Basically Robin, Ron Lawley, etc marched into Copenhagen (I think) Org dressed in SO uniforms and demanded to be given access to the NOTs materials. They marched out of the org with the pack in their briefcases! Nobody prevented or questioned them, because they were an "SO Mission"! :hysterical:
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
And still we get "innocents" like Petraph33 asserting that this sort of thing didn't and doesn't happen! :melodramatic:

I have to admit that in my time in Scn I would have become a disconnected operative to save and clear the planet. I would have had doubts about the ethics of it, but would have convinced myself that it was for the greatest good.

A similar thing was done to Robin Scott who "acquired" the NOTs materials.

The story of how he got them is very funny and demonstrates the robotic idiocy of Hubbardites. I knew the people involved at the time and so I know it is true.

Basically Robin, Ron Lawley, etc marched into Copenhagen (I think) Org dressed in SO uniforms and demanded to be given access to the NOTs materials. They marched out of the org with the pack in their briefcases! Nobody prevented or questioned them, because they were an "SO Mission"! :hysterical:

OMG! :roflmao: :roflmao:
 

petraph33

Patron with Honors
And still we get "innocents" like Petraph33 asserting that this sort of thing didn't and doesn't happen! :melodramatic:

Well, it's not that I don't belief OSA's or whoevers undercover work. But to be told that you are being outcast, being actually and "thruthfully" declared SP with all connections cut and being kicked out of Scn to go to the "enemy" with uncertainty to get "back in" then, I am not so sure about people being willing to go that way.
Surely I would have gone on an undercover mission myself and have attended daily Network Coordination Council meetings where OSA actions got coordinated... so am well aware of that fact thank you...., but I don't think this is what was originally talked about in this thread - or did I get that wrong in the first place? :unsure:
 
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