What's new

In defence of Hubbard

freethinker

Sponsor
No self respecting human being would agree with anything you say here.
Seriously, what criminality? You mean the IRS infiltration stuff? Give me a break! Are you also complaining that NSA was (and of course is) spying all over the globe? Big companies involved like Google, facebook and Microsoft. Did they got paid for it? I don't know and I don't bother...

What I am saying is that spying and infiltrating is as old as mankind. Why should Hubbard be denied what governments are not only allowed and supposed to do but even get paid for (by taxpayers).
 

clamicide

Gold Meritorious Patron
Ya know, the way it seems to me is. . .

Can't Hate = Can't Love.

It's called passion. Be happy you gotz lotz!


:hug:

Actually, most men I fell for, it was because they had the capacity for passion, and that they directed it my way...they were also intelligent and could converse. Seriously, there is nothing that turns me on more than pure passion...
 

BardoThodol

Silver Meritorious Patron
What's my point?

I have no issue with you not having attacked El Ron right there where he was. Nobody has, so I wouldn't expect that from anybody.

I am of course a bit unfair to you because you are a nice guy and share your experiences and insights. It's all fine and as far as I read your posts, these are interesting and I am glad you post here.

However you, and that goes for most on this board, are keeping on being victims of Hubbard. By making him the "why" of whatever bad happened to yourself or others, you are belittling yourself. Going on and on how bad another person is/was is kind of immature because nobody is utterly bad, not even your El Ron.

That's the point I am making. Trying to make people to see the world as a whole. Taking on multiple perspectives rather than being in a (Scientology) box. What you see in Scientology is a micro cosmos of what the big boys are playing outside.

Do you think Hubbard was bad? There is much worse! Look around, people get killed in other countries, families wiped out, famine etc. Don't get me started what we do to animals (hint, enjoy your beauty creams) - makes me sick...

Yet all victims seem to have gathered here and keep on whining that Hubbard was the source of their fucked up lives.

Sorry guys, I am not buying that.

I actually agree with much of this. We are not victims of Hubbard. He's not the "why" of our lives or conditions. There are events and circumstances in the world that make Scientology and Hubbard look insignificant and irrelevant.

But, misery cannot be measured by others. That 9/11 was worse than a woman losing her son in a car accident does not diminish her grief. "Orders of magnitude" concerning grief are simply philosophical and academic ignorance.

You can't really apply math and logic to feelings and social interaction. Different elements and intelligence apply. It's someone with logical intelligence failing to grasp what someone with emotional intelligence grasps instinctively.

One of the largest "outpoints" of Scientology was compassion. I don't know if it's possible to advance beyond a certain point spiritually without compassion.

As an aside, sometimes whining is good for releasing tension. People who can't allow themselves to whine every now and then just tend to get super uptight and lose their compassion. (not that that's true, I just felt like saying it.)
 

clamicide

Gold Meritorious Patron
No self respecting human being would agree with anything you say here.

Yep, kinda the universal thought here I think. I took about 16 seconds to try to figure out the OPs modus operendi, and then just realized I didn't care, because I knew so much anti-hub stuff would devour this thread and speak louder than whatever the OP said that I thought it was a wonderful thing this post landed on this board. A lovely little snowflake, that gathered crystals upon crystals to make a beautiful landscape, although the OP was surely trying to hurl a giant piece of mud into ESMB. OP obviously doesn't know ESMB:biggrin:
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
I get what you're saying. However, I've also read a lot of stories of how compassionate and kind and caring he was through his life. Course that's a lot of PR from the church, but there's another side to this.

In Martha Stott's book, The Sociopath Next Door, she talks about how charming sociopaths can be, one of these charmers can draw you in and make you believe you're the only person in the world that matters and they have only your interests at heart.

Like Bernie Maddoff. HH has stories of being taken by a charmer like this.

Certainly Hubbard was self serving but I think he wanted to be powerful enough and effective enough to actually change people's lives just to prove that he was what he claimed.

Just because someone's lying to you doesn't mean they don't want to believe those lies or live those lies.

YES!:yes:

Some of "Shooting Stars" and earlier Posts I link to in the Installments contain vignettes re: El Ron's disarming, impromptu charm and acts of random, clever "kindness". Hisself was capable of "charming the eyes out of a snake" and make your eyes watery at his thoughtfulness.

I'm not gonna go search for and put up links to that stuff here. However, I will tell a little Story I've never told here before that "Frames" and gives "Context" to what I was trying to relate and say in those vignettes.

When El Ron's father was on the Apollo, one of the Family Stewards was assigned to be HRH's (Harry Ross Hubbard) personal Steward during his stay. The people from the HU (Household Unit) were some of the finest, most dedicated, decent and abused Folks I ever knew in the SO (I've also written vignettes about them).

The Stewards and HU Staff were servants in the fullest since of the word and hey were blamed, carped at and assigned lower conditions more routinely than any other Flag Crew Members.

HRH's Steward took IMPECCABLE care of Harry, to the point that when El Ron was telling his father that he was going to buy a Stereo System just like Hisself's personal one (Thousands of dollars of Studio quality stuff), and send Hisself's son-in-law Jon Horwich (Diana's Husband) out to Harry's house in the Puget Sound area to personally set it up to Hisself''s specs, Harry responded that that would be nice but, if Hisself was going to be that generous, he'd rather have El Ron send his Steward home with him to be his caregiver. Of course, that was a non starter.

The day after Harry left for home, a messenger brought an elegant, hand made paper envelope to the Steward, handed to them and said, "The Commodore said, "Thank you very much. Very, very well done. You are Very Highly Commended."

Inside the envelope was an elegant hand made paper card with the drawing of a white haired old man in a flowing robe, bending over to hand a flower to a little girl and signed, "Much Love! Ron", and crisp $100.00 bill. Now, in the mid 70's for a Flag Crew Member, that was a lotta dough. They were on Cloud 9 and actually went to Examiner to make and "Origination" and have their "Floating TA" called.

48 hours later, that same Steward was sobbing in trembling tears after having been raked over the coals by Hisself for some minor...and, from my experience possibly imaginary...faux pas they had made while serving the Family Dinner.


Face:)
 

freethinker

Sponsor
Keep posting that Hubbards a genius and you will get the minus categories.

You want to play around with auditing is one thing but by glorifying Hubbard, you lose all your charm with me.

You ought to be ashamed, Hubbard did not create auditing, he stole the whole idea of it from psychiatry and that is the reason why he hates psychs because he is really one of them. He was a plagiarizing psycho who deserves no respect.


Knock it off, seriously.
awww...

i'm jealous HH

how come i've never gotten one of these report cards?
 

beekay

Patron
Actually, most men I fell for, it was because they had the capacity for passion, and that they directed it my way...they were also intelligent and could converse. Seriously, there is nothing that turns me on more than pure passion...

Just curious... Where would 'inspiration' be positioned on the tone scale in relation to passion?
And what would the emotion be called that causes us to have goosebumps?
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
Just curious... Where would 'inspiration' be positioned on the tone scale in relation to passion?
And what would the emotion be called that causes us to have goosebumps?



Dunno, but it would almost certainly be 'below death' ... (ie not needed or wanted, definitely best if not felt physically).

Lol.

The 'tone scale' encouraged certain 'emotions' but it discouraged all the fun ones.

:coolwink:

Edit ... sorry, I just realised you may be asking a serious question ... the term 'HE&R' (human emotion and reaction) covered pretty much any emotion (below 2.0 from memory) that was considered 'too excessive' ... it was a negative thing to be avoided like the plague and is one of the reasons scientologists have a tendency to becoming robotic and keep their ('lower') emotions under control.

 
Last edited:

beekay

Patron

Dunno, but it would almost certainly be 'below death' ... (ie not needed or wanted, definitely best if not felt physically).

Lol.

The 'tone scale' encouraged certain 'emotions' but it discouraged all the fun ones.

:coolwink:

Edit ... sorry, I just realised you may be asking a serious question ... the term 'HE&R' (human emotion and reaction) covered pretty much any emotion (below 2.0 from memory) that was considered 'too excessive' ... it was a negative thing to be avoided like the plague and is one of the reasons scientologists have a tendency to becoming robotic and keep their ('lower') emotions under control.


Just feeling like asking an off topic question. I figured the OP wouldn't mind since the entire thread has gone off topic at this point.
It reminded me of a discussion I had with someone a while ago.. Someone concluded if it gives you goosebumps it's inspiration.. if it turns you on it's passion. That led to trying to figure what trumps what?
In the back of my mind I wondered what an Ex -Scientologists viewpoint might be on that.
 

xemnu

Patron with Honors
Why do Exes hate Hubbard?

For my standards or what I am used to, I consider Hubbard still a decent guy. Not much wrong with him really. It keeps on surprising me why Exes making fuss about Hubbard's shortcomings while ignoring their own.

Or could it be that Exes have no personal shortcomings, being perfect parents, good daughters and sons, never took government handouts or pretended to be sick when they weren't, never lied in their CV's, always stood up to their principles based on their own high ethical values?

Please let me know what are your thoughts about it?

If that's what you think per your standards you're entitled to your opinion but your standards must be pretty awful.
It's not just that he lied, it's more that he lied to millions of people and to everybody around him. He stole others' ideas continually and repeatedly and claimed them as his own going so far as to attempt to copyright knowledge that he didn't come up with; he claimed to be in favor of human rights while denying those rights with his covert operations and suppressive person doctrine which qualifies as hate speech. He denied the existence of his second wife and his daughter.
And not just that but he pretended to be made of a superior moral fiber, to have a life devoted to the greatest good of the greatest number of dynamics, including theta (truth) and the ninth and tenth dynamics. He swindled people of millions of dollars (and lots other currencies).

You would have to look long and hard to find people with all those shortcomings at the same time and throughout their life.

Now, I realize that this post was just made as an attempt to troll but it's a good opportunity to illuminate Hubbard's low character.
 

Winston Smith

Flunked Scientology
Actually, most men I fell for, it was because they had the capacity for passion, and that they directed it my way...they were also intelligent and could converse. Seriously, there is nothing that turns me on more than pure passion...

OH Clammie, diear! You are the most wonderful thing ever to come my way!! Be still my heart! I will move that mountain over there for you...where would you like it? After that I will do battle with Zenu and defeat him, all for you! YES, there is no sky high enough to place a limit on my love for you!!

I wrote a song just for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbWj12YiFRs

:lol:
 

BardoThodol

Silver Meritorious Patron
YES!:yes:

Some of "Shooting Stars" and earlier Posts I link to in the Installments contain vignettes re: El Ron's disarming, impromptu charm and acts of random, clever "kindness". Hisself was capable of "charming the eyes out of a snake" and make your eyes watery at his thoughtfulness.

I'm not gonna go search for and put up links to that stuff here. However, I will tell a little Story I've never told here before that "Frames" and gives "Context" to what I was trying to relate and say in those vignettes.

When El Ron's father was on the Apollo, one of the Family Stewards was assigned to be HRH's (Harry Ross Hubbard) personal Steward during his stay. The people from the HU (Household Unit) were some of the finest, most dedicated, decent and abused Folks I ever knew in the SO (I've also written vignettes about them).

The Stewards and HU Staff were servants in the fullest since of the word and hey were blamed, carped at and assigned lower conditions more routinely than any other Flag Crew Members.

HRH's Steward took IMPECCABLE care of Harry, to the point that when El Ron was telling his father that he was going to buy a Stereo System just like Hisself's personal one (Thousands of dollars of Studio quality stuff), and send Hisself's son-in-law Jon Horwich (Diana's Husband) out to Harry's house in the Puget Sound area to personally set it up to Hisself''s specs, Harry responded that that would be nice but, if Hisself was going to be that generous, he'd rather have El Ron send his Steward home with him to be his caregiver. Of course, that was a non starter.

The day after Harry left for home, a messenger brought an elegant, hand made paper envelope to the Steward, handed to them and said, "The Commodore said, "Thank you very much. Very, very well done. You are Very Highly Commended."

Inside the envelope was an elegant hand made paper card with the drawing of a white haired old man in a flowing robe, bending over to hand a flower to a little girl and signed, "Much Love! Ron", and crisp $100.00 bill. Now, in the mid 70's for a Flag Crew Member, that was a lotta dough. They were on Cloud 9 and actually went to Examiner to make and "Origination" and have their "Floating TA" called.

48 hours later, that same Steward was sobbing in trembling tears after having been raked over the coals by Hisself for some minor...and, from my experience possibly imaginary...faux pas they had made while serving the Family Dinner.


Face:)

I need to study up on this, but the unpredictability is part of what causes sufficient cognitive dissonance to make an individual susceptible to
hypnotic suggestions or fixed ideas or whatever you wish to call them. I vaguely recall that prisoners in Korea were subjected to this. They'd be treated well for a bit, then be lead back to their cell, but before they got there a guard would just randomly appear from nowhere and smash them in the face.

If you keep a person off balance they begin to desperately seek solutions or answers. And if you happen to be the one giving those answers and solutions, that person tends to be grateful to you--even if you're the one causing the cognitive dissonance.
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
I am finally through this thread.

I read all replies and I want to thank you for taking the time posting. Many replies I found funny and made me laugh (Helluvahoax, ItoldyouIwastrouble, presentime and a number of others). Some other posts made me thoughtful (clamicide). Student of Trinity has decided to put me on "ignore" which is a pity because he has never been in Scientology. He could have at least tried to bear the thought various people have different opinions.

I want to answer some questions which have come up. Some have accused me of being a satanist (Anonycat), others assumed I must be an OSA bot. Purple Rain (she got me bursting out in laughter) thought I was still on a diet of rice and beans. There was another guy demanding I should not hide my identity and the other one suggesting I must be insane defending Hubbard.

This is a message board where people can express their opinions and that's why I am here. I also like the people on this board.

I am not an OSA bot nor has anybody else sent me here. I am posting here because I like doing so. In defense of the English men here, I am not English either. My home country is on the European Continent.

I was in the Sea Org from 80 to 84. I despise the current CoS and don't want to be affiliated with it in any form. I was affiliated with one of the very early Rons Orgs but they ceased to exist. I have no plans to join Free Zone but will not exclude it.

And no, I don't want to expose my identity here. One of my friends for example is a well known critic of Scientology but I myself prefer to have my privacy. It's kind of too messy for me.

Why I defend Hubbard?

Maybe because I am a controversial personality? Or is it because everybody else lashes out on him? It's probably the 2nd I suppose.

What I have observed is that everybody seems to agree about Hubbard here on ESMB. It appears there is lot of hypocrisy going on. Calling a dead man scumbag while nobody dared doing so while he was alive is too cheap to get away with.

Furthermore, I intend to also go down occasionally as I see fit on those sort Indies and Freezoners who, while apparently being disgusted with Hubbard, nevertheless deliver Scientology.




Come back soon, I like your style even though we may disagree.




:)
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
I need to study up on this, but the unpredictability is part of what causes sufficient cognitive dissonance to make an individual susceptible to
hypnotic suggestions or fixed ideas or whatever you wish to call them. I vaguely recall that prisoners in Korea were subjected to this. They'd be treated well for a bit, then be lead back to their cell, but before they got there a guard would just randomly appear from nowhere and smash them in the face.

If you keep a person off balance they begin to desperately seek solutions or answers. And if you happen to be the one giving those answers and solutions, that person tends to be grateful to you--even if you're the one causing the cognitive dissonance.



Yes! :yes:

Stockholm syndrome...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome...

Stockholm syndrome, or capture–bonding, is a psychological phenomenon in which hostages express empathy and sympathy and have positive feelings toward their captors, sometimes to the point of defending them. These feelings are generally considered irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims, who essentially mistake a lack of abuse from their captors for an act of kindness.[1][2] The FBI's Hostage Barricade Database System shows that roughly 27% of victims show evidence of Stockholm syndrome.[3]

Stockholm syndrome can be seen as a form of traumatic bonding, which does not necessarily require a hostage scenario, but which describes “strong emotional ties that develop between two persons where one person intermittently harasses, beats, threatens, abuses, or intimidates the other.”[4] One commonly used hypothesis to explain the effect of Stockholm syndrome is based on Freudian theory. It suggests that the bonding is the individual’s response to trauma in becoming a victim. Identifying with the aggressor is one way that the ego defends itself. When a victim believes the same values as the aggressor, they cease to be a threat.[5]

Battered-person syndrome is an example of activating the capture–bonding psychological mechanism, as are military basic training and fraternity bonding by hazing.



Battered Person Syndrome...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battered_person_syndrome



Face:)
 

Free Being Me

Crusader


Yes! :yes:

Stockholm syndrome...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome...

Stockholm syndrome, or capture–bonding, is a psychological phenomenon in which hostages express empathy and sympathy and have positive feelings toward their captors, sometimes to the point of defending them. These feelings are generally considered irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims, who essentially mistake a lack of abuse from their captors for an act of kindness.[1][2] The FBI's Hostage Barricade Database System shows that roughly 27% of victims show evidence of Stockholm syndrome.[3]

Stockholm syndrome can be seen as a form of traumatic bonding, which does not necessarily require a hostage scenario, but which describes “strong emotional ties that develop between two persons where one person intermittently harasses, beats, threatens, abuses, or intimidates the other.”[4] One commonly used hypothesis to explain the effect of Stockholm syndrome is based on Freudian theory. It suggests that the bonding is the individual’s response to trauma in becoming a victim. Identifying with the aggressor is one way that the ego defends itself. When a victim believes the same values as the aggressor, they cease to be a threat.[5]

Battered-person syndrome is an example of activating the capture–bonding psychological mechanism, as are military basic training and fraternity bonding by hazing.



Battered Person Syndrome...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battered_person_syndrome



Face:)

:yes:

Traumatic Bonding
http://victimsofpsychopaths.wordpress.com/traumatic-bonding/
"Traumatic bonding is “strong emotional ties that develop between two persons where one person intermittently harasses, beats, threatens, abuses, or intimidates the other.” (Dutton & Painter, 1981). Several conditions have been identified that must be present for a traumatic bond to occur.

–(1). There must be an imbalance of power, with one person more in control of key aspects of the relationship, such as setting themselves up as the “authority” through such things as controlling the finances, or making most of the relationship decisions, or using threats and intimidations, so the relationship has become lopsided.

–(2). The abusive behavior is sporadic in nature. It is characterized by intermittent reinforcement, which means there is the alternating of highly intense positives (such as intense kindness or affection) and the negatives of the abusive behavior.

–(3). The victim engages in denial of the abuse for emotional self- protection. In severe abuse (this can be psychological or physical), one form of psychological protection strategy is dissociation, where the victim experiences the abuse as if it is not happening to them, but as if they are outside their body watching the scene unfold (like watching a movie). Dissociative states allow the victim to compartmentalize the abusive aspects of the relationship in order to focus on the positive aspects.

The use of denial and distancing oneself from the abuse are forms of what is called cognitive dissonance. In abusive relationships this means that what is happening to the victim is so horrible, so far removed from their thoughts and expectations of the world, that it is “dissonant” or “out of tune” or “at odds” with their pre-existing expectations and reality. Since the victim feels powerless to change the situation, they rely on emotional strategies to try to make it less dissonant, to try to somehow make it fit. To cope with the contradicting behaviors of the abuser, and to survive the abuse, the person literally has to change how they perceive reality. Studies also show a person is more loyal and committed to a person or situation that is difficult, uncomfortable, or even humiliating, and the more the victim has invested in the relationship, the more they need to justify their position. Cognitive dissonance is a powerful “self-preservation” mechanism which can completely distort and override the truth, with the victim developing a tolerance for the abuse and “normalizing” the abusers behavior, despite evidence to the contrary.

–(4). The victim masks that the abuse is happening, may not have admitted it to anyone, not even themselves.

Trauma bonding makes it easier for a victim to survive within the relationship, but it severely undermines the victims self-structures, undermining their ability to accurately evaluate danger, and impairs their ability to perceive of alternatives to the situation.

Once a trauma bond is established it becomes extremely difficult for the victim to break free of the relationship. The way humans respond to trauma is thought to have a biological basis and reactions to trauma was first described a century ago, with the term “railroad spine” being used. Another term used has been “shell shocked”.

Victims overwhelmed with terror suffer from an overload of their system, and to be able to function they must distort reality. They often shut down emotionally, and sometimes later describe themselves as having felt “robotic”, intellectually knowing what happened, but feeling frozen or numb and unable to take action. A victim must feel safe and out of “survival mode” before they will be able to make cognitive changes.

Many victims feel the compulsion to tell and retell the events of the trauma in an attempt to come to terms with what happened to them and to try to integrate it, reaching out to others for contact, safety, and stability. Other victims react in an opposite manner, withdrawing into a shell of self-imposed isolation. The trauma bond can persist even after the victim leaves the relationship, with it sometimes taking months, or even years, for them to completely break the bond."
 

clamicide

Gold Meritorious Patron
Just feeling like asking an off topic question. I figured the OP wouldn't mind since the entire thread has gone off topic at this point.
It reminded me of a discussion I had with someone a while ago.. Someone concluded if it gives you goosebumps it's inspiration.. if it turns you on it's passion. That led to trying to figure what trumps what?
In the back of my mind I wondered what an Ex -Scientologists viewpoint might be on that.

Yeah... for me, I'm just totally "over" the tone scale, so I have no answer. For me sometimes passion and inspiration co-mingle. A couple days ago, I was writing some stuff inspired by a man I know--he's so incredibly sexy (to me), that I have to admit I was a bit turned on--and yet, I was inspired to create some sort of piece that was based on him. None of that is anywhere on the tone scale. (ETA: come to think of it, I was also a little pissed off at him at the time of writing:p)

When I was "in", and believed in the tone scale--I could usually pin myself down to some level on it. Now, I notice that I can (once again) experience a variety of emotions at once. I can feel utter joy that is tinged with a hint of sadness... it's really nice to be more human again, instead of something that can be plotted on a tone scale or OCA.
 
Last edited:

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
:yes:

Traumatic Bonding
http://victimsofpsychopaths.wordpress.com/traumatic-bonding/
"Traumatic bonding is “strong emotional ties that develop between two persons where one person intermittently harasses, beats, threatens, abuses, or intimidates the other.” (Dutton & Painter, 1981). Several conditions have been identified that must be present for a traumatic bond to occur.

–(1). There must be an imbalance of power, with one person more in control of key aspects of the relationship, such as setting themselves up as the “authority” through such things as controlling the finances, or making most of the relationship decisions, or using threats and intimidations, so the relationship has become lopsided.

–(2). The abusive behavior is sporadic in nature. It is characterized by intermittent reinforcement, which means there is the alternating of highly intense positives (such as intense kindness or affection) and the negatives of the abusive behavior.

–(3). The victim engages in denial of the abuse for emotional self- protection. In severe abuse (this can be psychological or physical), one form of psychological protection strategy is dissociation, where the victim experiences the abuse as if it is not happening to them, but as if they are outside their body watching the scene unfold (like watching a movie). Dissociative states allow the victim to compartmentalize the abusive aspects of the relationship in order to focus on the positive aspects.

The use of denial and distancing oneself from the abuse are forms of what is called cognitive dissonance. In abusive relationships this means that what is happening to the victim is so horrible, so far removed from their thoughts and expectations of the world, that it is “dissonant” or “out of tune” or “at odds” with their pre-existing expectations and reality. Since the victim feels powerless to change the situation, they rely on emotional strategies to try to make it less dissonant, to try to somehow make it fit. To cope with the contradicting behaviors of the abuser, and to survive the abuse, the person literally has to change how they perceive reality. Studies also show a person is more loyal and committed to a person or situation that is difficult, uncomfortable, or even humiliating, and the more the victim has invested in the relationship, the more they need to justify their position. Cognitive dissonance is a powerful “self-preservation” mechanism which can completely distort and override the truth, with the victim developing a tolerance for the abuse and “normalizing” the abusers behavior, despite evidence to the contrary.

–(4). The victim masks that the abuse is happening, may not have admitted it to anyone, not even themselves.

Trauma bonding makes it easier for a victim to survive within the relationship, but it severely undermines the victims self-structures, undermining their ability to accurately evaluate danger, and impairs their ability to perceive of alternatives to the situation.

Once a trauma bond is established it becomes extremely difficult for the victim to break free of the relationship. The way humans respond to trauma is thought to have a biological basis and reactions to trauma was first described a century ago, with the term “railroad spine” being used. Another term used has been “shell shocked”.

Victims overwhelmed with terror suffer from an overload of their system, and to be able to function they must distort reality. They often shut down emotionally, and sometimes later describe themselves as having felt “robotic”, intellectually knowing what happened, but feeling frozen or numb and unable to take action. A victim must feel safe and out of “survival mode” before they will be able to make cognitive changes.

Many victims feel the compulsion to tell and retell the events of the trauma in an attempt to come to terms with what happened to them and to try to integrate it, reaching out to others for contact, safety, and stability. Other victims react in an opposite manner, withdrawing into a shell of self-imposed isolation. The trauma bond can persist even after the victim leaves the relationship, with it sometimes taking months, or even years, for them to completely break the bond."

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


:)
 

clamicide

Gold Meritorious Patron
OH Clammie, diear! You are the most wonderful thing ever to come my way!! Be still my heart! I will move that mountain over there for you...where would you like it? After that I will do battle with Zenu and defeat him, all for you! YES, there is no sky high enough to place a limit on my love for you!!

I wrote a song just for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbWj12YiFRs

:lol:


I'm not going to divulge why:coolwink:, but this made my day. Thank you--it was oddly just what I needed this morning.:biggrin:
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
I'll leave this here for those coming out of the cult.

Coming Out Of Scientology

8 Steps Out Of Scientology
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/8steps.html
Dangerous Cult Leaders
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/spycatcher/201208/dangerous-cult-leaders
Identifying Marks Of An Exploitive, Abusive Group
http://www.exitsupportnetwork.com/artcls/mindctrl/marks.htm
Jon Atack - Why It’s So Hard To Recover From Scientology
http://tonyortega.org/2013/06/08/jon-atack-on-why-its-so-hard-to-recover-from-scientology/
Post-Cult Problems: An Exit Counselor's Perspective
http://www.icsahome.com/infoserv_articles/giambalvo_carol_postcult_problems.htm
Profile Of A Sociopath - Cult Leaders
http://www.exitsupportnetwork.com/artcls/socio.htm
The Scientological Onion
http://exscn.net/content/view/178/105/

Steve Hassan - Freedom Of Mind
http://freedomofmind.com/index.php

Mind Control – The BITE Model
http://www.freedomofmind.com/Info/BITE/bitemodel.php#behavior
Combatting Cult Mind Control: The #1 Best-selling Guide to Protection, Rescue, and Recovery from Destructive Cults
http://www.amazon.com/Combatting-Cu..._B000APQYV4_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1370833779&sr=1-1
Freedom of Mind: Helping Loved Ones Leave Controlling People, Cults, and Beliefs
http://www.amazon.com/Freedom-Mind-...=1370833589&sr=1-5&keywords=ex+scientologists
Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves
http://www.amazon.com/Releasing-Bon...bs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210702476&sr=8-1
Books On Cult Mind Control
http://www.xenu.net/archive/books/cult_etc.html

Informative Sites

Ex-Scientologist Message Board
http://www.forum.exscn.net/forum.php
Ex-Scientology Kids
http://exscientologykids.com/
Ex-Sea Org
https://sites.google.com/site/xseaorg/
Lermanet
http://www.lermanet.com/
Mark Bunker - YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/user/xenutv?feature=results_main
Operation Clambake
http://www.xenu.net/
Reaching For The Tipping Point
http://www.reachingforthetippingpoint.net/
The Underground Bunker
http://tonyortega.org/
Tory Speaking Freely - YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/ToryMagoo44
Why We Protest
https://whyweprotest.net/community/
World Cult Watch
http://worldcultwatch.org/

Recovery Tools

5 Things to Do When You Feel Insecure
http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2013/06/08/5-things-to-do-when-you-feel-insecure/
CCI Self Help Modules
http://www.cci.health.wa.gov.au/resources/consumers.cfm
Cognitive Reframing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_reframing
Cognitive Reframing - Change Your Thinking
http://www.positive-thinking-principles.com/cognitive-reframing.html
Cognitive Restructuring
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/in-practice/201301/cognitive-restructuring
Cognitive Restructuring Aids
http://www.psychologytools.org/cognitive-restructuring.html
Cognitive Theory and Addiction (Thoughts, Beliefs, Expectations)
http://www.dekcsb.org/1408-addictio...y-and-addiction-thoughts-beliefs-expectations
Emotional intelligence
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_intelligence
Emotional Wellness
http://wellness.ucr.edu/emotional_wellness.html
Fear, Obligation, and Guilt (FOG)
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...ear-obligation-and-guilt-fog-in-relationships
Finding Time for Truly Nurturing Yourself
http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2012/10/14/finding-time-for-truly-nurturing-yourself/
Healing Emotional and Psychological Trauma
http://www.helpguide.org/mental/emotional_psychological_trauma.htm
Hierarchy of Needs - Abraham Maslow
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Maslow
New to Mindfulness? How to Get Started
http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2013/06/03/new-to-mindfulness-how-to-get-started/
Personal Core Values And Positive Beliefs
http://www.inspired-personal-development.com/personal-core-values.html
Personal Core Values List
http://www.mypersonalimprovement.com/personalcorevalues.shtml
Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posttraumatic_stress_disorder
Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder Worksheets & Handouts
http://www.psychologytools.org/ptsd.html
Psychology Tools - Free Worksheet Downloads And Therapy Resources
http://www.psychologytools.org/
Self-Compassion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-compassion
Self Development Recovery Techniques
http://www.empowering-personal-development.com/self-development.html
Self-Esteem
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-esteem
Self-Esteem Improvement
http://www.cci.health.wa.gov.au/docs/SE_Module 6_July 05.pdf
Self-Image
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self_image
The Path To Unconditional Self Acceptance
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolution-the-self/200809/the-path-unconditional-self-acceptance
The Power of Patience
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/emotional-freedom/201209/the-power-patience
The 5 Stages Of Loss And Grief
http://psychcentral.com/lib/2006/the-5-stages-of-loss-and-grief/
Traumatic Bonding
http://victimsofpsychopaths.wordpress.com/traumatic-bonding/

Brené Brown - Listening To Shame (TED Talk)
[video=youtube;L0ifUM1DYKg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0ifUM1DYKg[/video]

Brené Brown: The Power Of Vulnerability (TED Talk)
[video=youtube;iEPbkvhPuRk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEPbkvhPuRk[/video]

Jack Kornfield - Compassion
[video=youtube;I0V3gNf6Ccc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0V3gNf6Ccc[/VIDEO]

Jack Kornfield - The Ancient Art Of Forgiveness
[video=youtube;yiRP-Q4mMtk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiRP-Q4mMtk[/video]

Ex-Scientology Books
(Available at libraries and other outlets)

A Piece of Blue Sky: Scientology, Dianetics and L. Ron Hubbard Exposed - Jon Atack
http://www.amazon.com/Piece-Blue-Sk...32747&sr=1-1&keywords=a+piece+of+the+blue+sky
Bare-faced Messiah: True Story of L.Ron Hubbard - Russell Miller
http://www.amazon.com/Bare-faced-Me...1370834396&sr=1-1&keywords=bare+faced+messiah
Beyond Belief: My Secret Life Inside Scientology and My Harrowing Escape - Jenna Miscavige
http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Belief-Jenna-M-Hill/dp/0062263439/
Blown for Good - Behind the Iron Curtain of Scientology - Marc Headley
http://www.amazon.com/Blown-Good-Cu...70832850&sr=1-1-spell&keywords=blwon+for+good
Counterfeit Dreams: One Man's Journey Into and Out of the World of Scientology - Jefferson Hawkins
http://www.amazon.com/Counterfeit-Dreams-Journey-World-Scientology/dp/0615375642/ref=tmm_hrd_title_0
Going Clear: Scientology, Hollywood, and the Prison of Belief - Lawrence Wright
http://www.amazon.com/Going-Clear-Scientology-Hollywood-Prison/dp/0307700666/ref=pd_sim_b_4
Inside Scientology: The Story of America's Most Secretive Religion - Janet Reitman
http://www.amazon.com/Inside-Scient...70832850&sr=1-2-spell&keywords=blwon+for+good
L. Ron Hubbard: Messiah or Madman - Bent Corydon
http://www.amazon.com/L-Ron-Hubbard-Messiah-Madman/dp/0942637577/ref=pd_sim_sbs_b_3
My Billion Year Contract: Memoir of a Former Scientologist - Nancy Many
http://www.amazon.com/My-Billion-Year-Contract-Scientologist/dp/0578039222/ref=pd_sim_b_1
Scientology - Abuse At the Top - Amy Scobee
http://www.amazon.com/Scientology-A...r=1-1&keywords=Scientology+-+Abuse+At+the+Top
The Church of Fear: Inside The Weird World of Scientology - John Sweeney
http://www.amazon.com/Church-Fear-I...d=1370833309&sr=1-13&keywords=lawrence+wright
The Complex: An Insider Exposes the Covert World of the Church of Scientology - John Duignan
http://www.amazon.com/The-Complex-Insider-Exposes-Scientology/dp/1903582849/ref=pd_sim_sbs_b_18
The Scandal of Scientology - Paulette Cooper
http://www.amazon.com/The-scandal-scientology-Tower-book/dp/B0007AF8KA

Concepts To Contrast

Abuse
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abuse
Bait-and-Switch
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bait-and-switch
Betrayal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betrayal
Cognitive Bias
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_bias
Cognitive Dissonance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance
Coping (psychology)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coping_(psychology)
Critical thinking
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking
Deception
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deception
Denial
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial
Disinformation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disinformation
Dissociation (psychology)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociation_(psychology)
Double Bind
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_bind
Double Standard
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_standard
Emotional Blackmail
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_blackmail
Emotional Detachment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_detachment
False Dilemma
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
Gaslighting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting
Groupthink
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink
Hypnosis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnosis
Identity (social science)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_(social_science)
Indoctrination
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indoctrination
Loaded Language
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_language
Locus Of Control
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locus_of_control
Love Bombing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_bombing
Magical Thinking
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_thinking
Milieu Control
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milieu_control
Narcissism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic
Peer Pressure
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peer_pressure
Propaganda
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda
Psychological Abuse
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_abuse
Psychological Manipulation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_manipulation
Self-Deception
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-deception
Self-Help
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-help
Self-Serving Bias
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias
Shunning
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shunning
Social Isolation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_isolation
Wishful Thinking
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wishful_thinking
 
Last edited:

BardoThodol

Silver Meritorious Patron
:yes:

Traumatic Bonding
http://victimsofpsychopaths.wordpress.com/traumatic-bonding/
"Traumatic bonding is “strong emotional ties that develop between two persons where one person intermittently harasses, beats, threatens, abuses, or intimidates the other.” (Dutton & Painter, 1981). Several conditions have been identified that must be present for a traumatic bond to occur.

–(1). There must be an imbalance of power, with one person more in control of key aspects of the relationship, such as setting themselves up as the “authority” through such things as controlling the finances, or making most of the relationship decisions, or using threats and intimidations, so the relationship has become lopsided.

–(2). The abusive behavior is sporadic in nature. It is characterized by intermittent reinforcement, which means there is the alternating of highly intense positives (such as intense kindness or affection) and the negatives of the abusive behavior.

–(3). The victim engages in denial of the abuse for emotional self- protection. In severe abuse (this can be psychological or physical), one form of psychological protection strategy is dissociation, where the victim experiences the abuse as if it is not happening to them, but as if they are outside their body watching the scene unfold (like watching a movie). Dissociative states allow the victim to compartmentalize the abusive aspects of the relationship in order to focus on the positive aspects.

The use of denial and distancing oneself from the abuse are forms of what is called cognitive dissonance. In abusive relationships this means that what is happening to the victim is so horrible, so far removed from their thoughts and expectations of the world, that it is “dissonant” or “out of tune” or “at odds” with their pre-existing expectations and reality. Since the victim feels powerless to change the situation, they rely on emotional strategies to try to make it less dissonant, to try to somehow make it fit. To cope with the contradicting behaviors of the abuser, and to survive the abuse, the person literally has to change how they perceive reality. Studies also show a person is more loyal and committed to a person or situation that is difficult, uncomfortable, or even humiliating, and the more the victim has invested in the relationship, the more they need to justify their position. Cognitive dissonance is a powerful “self-preservation” mechanism which can completely distort and override the truth, with the victim developing a tolerance for the abuse and “normalizing” the abusers behavior, despite evidence to the contrary.

–(4). The victim masks that the abuse is happening, may not have admitted it to anyone, not even themselves.

Trauma bonding makes it easier for a victim to survive within the relationship, but it severely undermines the victims self-structures, undermining their ability to accurately evaluate danger, and impairs their ability to perceive of alternatives to the situation.

Once a trauma bond is established it becomes extremely difficult for the victim to break free of the relationship. The way humans respond to trauma is thought to have a biological basis and reactions to trauma was first described a century ago, with the term “railroad spine” being used. Another term used has been “shell shocked”.

Victims overwhelmed with terror suffer from an overload of their system, and to be able to function they must distort reality. They often shut down emotionally, and sometimes later describe themselves as having felt “robotic”, intellectually knowing what happened, but feeling frozen or numb and unable to take action. A victim must feel safe and out of “survival mode” before they will be able to make cognitive changes.

Many victims feel the compulsion to tell and retell the events of the trauma in an attempt to come to terms with what happened to them and to try to integrate it, reaching out to others for contact, safety, and stability. Other victims react in an opposite manner, withdrawing into a shell of self-imposed isolation. The trauma bond can persist even after the victim leaves the relationship, with it sometimes taking months, or even years, for them to completely break the bond."

Wow.

As the local top-forty DJ often says, "The hits just keep rolling."

There is so much to learn and understand about human nature. I think schools have their priorities all messed up. We need to teach our children certain CORE information about what we are and how we act and respond to help immunize our children and ourselves against this kind of stuff.

Core. In physical training, if your core isn't strong it doesn't matter how strong your limbs are, you're going to have problems. Bad balance, back going out, lack of overall coordination.
 
Top