In defence of Hubbard

[Xenu's Boyfriend]

every infantryman knows corpses make good enfilade XB

That's your response to what I wrote?

 

[Claire Swazey]

Re: Re Paulette Cooper: Relaunch of request for evidence

Finally somebody who can elaborate a perspective as opposed to knee-jerk reactions or hiding behind a wall of dense. I was already getting desperate. So thank you for that Claire.

Firstly I would like to point out that I don't condone unfair behaviour, be it from the church, Hubbard or anybody else. Fair means treating the people with tolerance and let them have a chance to survive and win in their live. Not chopping them down but granting them the same rights as I claim for myself. In short, treat people like I would be treated myself. That's not the same as "treating people lawfully". Fairness goes way beyond mere law. In fact law can be abused in a very, very unfair manner. I think we can at least agree on that.

Now what regards Paulette Cooper. Paulette Cooper is not whistle blowing. That is not the same. This was a heinous attack towards a group of people minding their own business.

Paulette Cooper meticulously planned and carried out her odious attack in a very unfair manner to say the least. Her mind was made up in advance. She was going to find what she wanted to find. Maybe she thought, that is what is going to sell well. After all, who would care about this Scientology cult being one of many back that days?

While we don't know what was going through her mind, it stands to reason to suspect that her motivations were money driven.

I have nothing against whistle blowing journalism like John Sweeney from BBC. It must be obvious even to the most hateful of Scientology and Hubbard that John Sweeney adheres to a significant different style. In no way you could call him under handed. Jon Sweeney is fair and what he is doing is fair journalism.

Tony Ortega from Huffington post comes also to mind. He is even better and must be regarded as a benchmark of objective and critical journalism.

Paulette Coopers journalism doesn't even come close to anything we hear from Sweeney or Ortega. Paulette Cooper has heinously attacked Scientology and Hubbard in the first place. Paulette Cooper was not a "nice" person. Paulette Coopers motives were based on greed and hate. Paulette Cooper, while she later became a "victim", was the initial aggressor.

That Church staff completely mishandled the matter and subsequently were settling was certainly a mistake. What the church should have done is to employ any and all legal means to fight Paulette Coopers discriminating writings and this includes litigating until the last breath or complete surrender, whichever is earlier.

The book was pretty pointed, yes. It could be seen as a hatchet job. I should probably reread it as it's been years-and a cult- ago since I'd read it. But the way it seems to me now is that Cooper felt that this was a bad organization. And whaddaya know- it was and is one. I don't know that every argument she used was valid or correct, but I believe she was sincere and was trying to draw the public's attention to a very bad situation. And it did turn out to be a fucked up situation, a very fucked up group.

I think it was early days in Scn criticism, too.

So even if mistakes were made in the research and writing (and I don't know this to be or not be the case) can we honestly call it "Heinous" if it's against a predatory group like CofS? I know it was written a long time ago, but if memory serves, Hubbard had already started a lot of shenanigans and illegal activities and mistreatment of staff.

I realize you aren't condoning Op Freakout, but think about it-- if the cult was not nasty and was undeserving of the treatment meted out in that book- don't you think, perhaps, that by their very reaction to the Scandal of Scn and subsequent op against Cooper that they were confirming her concerns about Scn in a way?

It would be like if I said "Jane's a predatory bitch. She did this and that and she is a sociopath who hurts people." If Jane then went on to firebomb my house in answer to this, well, lo and behold, Jane has just confirmed that I was right about her being a sociopath even if I had a bunch of lousy research and incorrect statements in what I'd said about Jane.

On another note, I will tell you that I found that some of the arguments by critics struck me as lack of understanding of Scn, ologywise. I remember Bob Minton's oft reposted a.r.s. posts about Scn's beliefs, about spirits "Flying through the air" and I remember thinking now that guy just doesn't get it. But he was revered by many so people weren't really wanting to hear that. I've seen this in a lot of writings about Scn. But all the same, if such are answered by a fair game action such as Operation Freakout then the writer (in this case Ms. Cooper) has proved her main point against them.

 

[Commander Birdsong]

That's your response to what I wrote?

Oh Lord, let me get out your matrix now, chile, while I'm still able to escape.

"you can check out any time you like but you can never leave"

 

[Commander Birdsong]

Re: Re Paulette Cooper: Relaunch of request for evidence

The book was pretty pointed, yes. It could be seen as a hatchet job. I should probably reread it as it's been years-and a cult- ago since I'd read it. But the way it seems to me now is that Cooper felt that this was a bad organization. And whaddaya know- it was and is one. I don't know that every argument she used was valid or correct, but I believe she was sincere and was trying to draw the public's attention to a very bad situation. And it did turn out to be a fucked up situation, a very fucked up group.

I think it was early days in Scn criticism, too.

So even if mistakes were made in the research and writing (and I don't know this to be or not be the case) can we honestly call it "Heinous" if it's against a predatory group like CofS? I know it was written a long time ago, but if memory serves, Hubbard had already started a lot of shenanigans and illegal activities and mistreatment of staff.

I realize you aren't condoning Op Freakout, but think about it-- if the cult was not nasty and was undeserving of the treatment meted out in that book- don't you think, perhaps, that by their very reaction to the Scandal of Scn and subsequent op against Cooper that they were confirming her concerns about Scn in a way?

It would be like if I said "Jane's a predatory bitch. She did this and that and she is a sociopath who hurts people." If Jane then went on to firebomb my house in answer to this, well, lo and behold, Jane has just confirmed that I was right about her being a sociopath even if I had a bunch of lousy research and incorrect statements in what I'd said about Jane.

On another note, I will tell you that I found that some of the arguments by critics struck me as lack of understanding of Scn, ologywise. I remember Bob Minton's oft reposted a.r.s. posts about Scn's beliefs, about spirits "Flying through the air" and I remember thinking now that guy just doesn't get it. But he was revered by many so people weren't really wanting to hear that. I've seen this in a lot of writings about Scn. But all the same, if such are answered by a fair game action such as Operation Freakout then the writer (in this case Ms. Cooper) has proved her main point against them.

paulette had only the new york org for a database

new york would be better off it was gnu yawk but it ain't...



the thing was sure as hell a long way from all bad when i was in

and...

bad enough to drive me off...

 

[Xenu's Boyfriend]

"you can check out any time you like but you can never leave"

Just as long as you make me breakfast the next morning. You look so cute from behind when you're scrambling eggs.

And, Commander, don't forget to wear those cute bunny slippers that I like.

 

[Bill]

I think it depends how you see it. Oddly enough, I never cared to read her book and barely noticed it's existence. It was like buried in history. Now I looked at it because the subject has been brought up. To my surprise I realized that it was Paulette Cooper who started all in the first place!

So what the fuck, isn't it?

Now I don't condone what the Church did afterwards which is even more heinous. They went far beyond limits. After all, she didn't murder anybody - it was just a book, certainly.

You see, I am not likely to be offended by anything and I suppose that became obvious. But if somebody would write a book attacking my life's work, insulting and disparaging what I do and it could have consequences like driving me out of business, it's gloves off.

If one starts a war then one is not innocent. That's how I see it and that was basically my point.

If a person is libelled when he is innocent, he can take the offender to court for complete vindication.

If a criminal is exposed for their criminal activities, he cannot go to court and so will work to destroy the writer by criminal means.

Which response did Hubbard choose?

Bill

 

[Commander Birdsong]

If a person is libelled when he is innocent, he can take the offender to court for complete vindication.

If a criminal is exposed for their criminal activities, he cannot go to court and so will work to destroy the writer by criminal means.

Which response did Hubbard choose?

Bill

balthy took off to tend his business and his old lady

hubbard did what he did, as usual

he stuck his silver spurs in the filly's ribs and got her bucking

you just don't know what a childhood in montana is all about, son...

 

[Commander Birdsong]

well actually this doesn't look to be the hottest thread on the board

it looks the current board leader is the mosey suit thread

but this is a robust second

catch y'all tomorrow...

 

[Xenu's Boyfriend]

well actually this doesn't look to be the hottest thread on the board

it looks the current board leader is the mosey suit thread

but this is a robust second

catch y'all tomorrow...

No, this isn't the "hottest" thread on the board. There's nothing "hot" about it.

Nor anything robust.

My god, will the self-mythologizing around here ever end?

How many more fantasies are we going to have to entertain - TAJ thinking that the two of you are the Brad and Angelina of ESMB - Balthasar having to take a break to be with his "hot girlfriend"?

Excuse me, now I've got to run. It's president Obama on the other line. He calls me every now and then to chat. This debt crisis thing has got him so stressed out, he can hardly focus on our usual topic: the way we both adore Hello Kitty. Stickers, purses, tee-shirts, roller skates, you name it.

Isn't life delicious when reality doesn't intrude?

 

[Purple Rain]

No this isn't the "hottest" thread on the board. There's nothing "hot" about it.

Nor anything robust.

My god, will the self-mythologizing around here ever end?

How many more fantasies are we going to have to entertain - TAJ thinking that the two of you are the Brad and Angelina of ESMB - Balthasar having to take a break to be with his "hot girlfriend"?

Excuse me, now I've got to run. It's president Obama on the other line. He calls me every now and then to chat. This debt crisis thing has got him so stressed out. He can hardly focus on our usual topic: the way we both adore Hello Kitty. Stickers, purses, tee-shirts, roller skates, you name it.

Isn't life delicious when reality doesn't intrude?

While you're on there tell him I'm having god-awful trouble getting healthcare.gov to work. A couple of hundred goes to register successfully and now I can't even log on.

 

[Telepathetic]

Re: Re Paulette Cooper: Relaunch of request for evidence

forced and coerced drugging is not condoned at esmb

but if anyone wants to stop by and twist one up you know where to find me...

I've got the straitjacket, if you have the time..!

TP

 

[Telepathetic]

Re: Re Paulette Cooper: Relaunch of request for evidence

It's time for another shot of...

VISTARIL PUPPY!!​

SCIENTOLOGY: STICK A SYRINGE OF VISTARIL IN IT

…[STRIKE]Ron[/STRIKE] Balthasar, it's time for your booster...​

Make it a double please.

TP

 

[Commander Birdsong]

Re: Re Paulette Cooper: Relaunch of request for evidence

I've got the straitjacket, if you have the time..!

TP

been there, done that, got the t-shirt, lost it...

 

[Commander Birdsong]

Re: Re Paulette Cooper: Relaunch of request for evidence

Make it a double please.

TP

i'll pass on the vistaril

and i sure as hell was somewhat nonplussed concerning the coerced thorazine and prolixin...

 

[Claire Swazey]

And once again, Xenu's Boyfriend finds it necessary to psychoanalyze other contributors. So tiresome.

 

[Bea Kiddo]

While you're on there tell him I'm having god-awful trouble getting healthcare.gov to work. A couple of hundred goes to register successfully and now I can't even log on.

Its probably just a scam to get more tax dollars from everyone. I am having the same problem logging on. I spent hours messing with it before I gave up. I am pretty sure there is nothing to the website... Its fake.

I don't qualify for subsidies anyways... so maybe I have to go another route...

 

[Free Being Me]

And once again, Xenu's Boyfriend finds it necessary to psychoanalyze other contributors. So tiresome.

<snip>Your interpretations of his remarks are all dub-in. They speak more to your issues than his.

Something to think about.

 

[Xenu's Boyfriend]

And once again, Xenu's Boyfriend finds it necessary to psychoanalyze other contributors. So tiresome.

Claire, I find it fascinating that you don't see what is happening in this thread as psychologically manipulative.

What else do you call it when someone comes to an "ex-Scientology" board and posts something called, In Defense of Hubbard? And the insanity begins.

I think you and I are going to have to agree to disagree. What you call my "psychoanalyzing other contributors", I call, "confronting people on their shit" and also," protecting myself from being mind-fucked".

Revising the truth can makes things very murky and can be contagious. Sometimes you can forget the truth completely or what really happened. To hear some people tell it, LRH was a folk hero of the old West, misunderstood and well intentioned. The line just get pushed further and further until you forget what you are fighting against.

This is especially important as there are two very public court cases pending against the church at the moment and lurkers come to just a place like this to get information. What does it mean for someone who really wants to know to come here and see a thread like this. Who would post it here? And why? Again, perhaps it isn't my place, but I feel I have every right to deconstruct the intention of why someone would do this. Perhaps that goes a little close to the bone at times.

I respect your criticism and viewpoint, but I do take issue with your use of "tiresome". I, at least, try to entertain. Haven't you found any of my posts funny? I consider my psychoanalysis of you to be one of my "classics".

Hope you're well.

 

[Commander Birdsong]

Claire, I find it fascinating that you don't see what is happening in this thread as psychologically manipulative.

What else do you call it, when someone comes to an "ex-Scientology" board and posts something called, In Defense of Hubbard. And the insanity begins.

I think you and are going to have to agree to disagree. What you call my "psychoanalyzing other contributors", I call, "confronting people on their shit" and also," protecting myself from being mind-fucked".

Revising the truth can makes things very murky and can be contagious. Sometimes you can forget the truth or what really happens. The line just get pushed further and further until you forget why you were fighting anymore.

I respect your criticism and viewpoint, but I do take issue with your use of "tiresome". I, at least, try to entertain. Haven't you found any of my posts funny? I consider my psychoanalysis of you to be one of my "classics".

Hope you're well.

?????????????

why should an exscientologist not be allowed the same right to speak in defense of hubbard that an exscientologist has to be plaintiff against hubbard?

do not american exscientologists have american rights?


?????????????

 

[Commander Birdsong]

And once again, Xenu's Boyfriend finds it necessary to psychoanalyze other contributors. So tiresome.

live a little...

laugh a little...


he likes his writing

i like his writing

i like you

why not try to like his writing?