Incident 1 running

multixperience

Patron with Honors
So my question here would be probably a bit unpleasant.
And yes, again the Hubbard theory here.

After making the OT III level, and running it on few others, Hubbard for some reason came up with the policy of "DIANETICS FORBIDDEN ON CLEARS AND OTS".

That policy says as a reason for not running dianetics that...
A CLEAR does not have pictures, as he erased his bank already, therefore he cant run pictures.

1. I dont know people here, but I would like to ask you guys who made the CLEAR level, you really dont have any pictures?

2. On the other hand, one is to run on OT3 only BTs through Inc I and Inc II. Earlier based on data I found, people on OT3 run also their own Inc I. But I cant see, how you can get through the Inc I merely by runing "others" through it?

Either the Thetan does not have to run anything, and the entire time of processing in Scientology was just running the Engrams of his body BTs, or there is something wrong with new OT III.

Who can tell?
 

DartSmohen

Silver Meritorious Patron
Just to set your mind at rest, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS INCIDENT ONE:duh::omg:

I was with Hubbard in Las Palmas and saw where he (in his drugged state) got the idea of Inc 1 from. Alan Walter was also there and also saw the events which led Hubbard to "devise" this piece of nonsense.:ohmy::omg:

If you log on to WWW.Paulsrabbit.com and look in the index of "The story of Dart Smohen", you will find a full description of what prompted Hubbard to dream this up.:thumbsup:

Sorry to introduce some facts into the fiction.:p:wink2:

Dart
 

Veda

Sponsor
So my question here would be probably a bit unpleasant.
And yes, again the Hubbard theory here.

After making the OT III level, and running it on few others, Hubbard for some reason came up with the policy of "DIANETICS FORBIDDEN ON CLEARS AND OTS".

That policy says as a reason for not running dianetics that...
A CLEAR does not have pictures, as he erased his bank already, therefore he cant run pictures.

1. I dont know people here, but I would like to ask you guys who made the CLEAR level, you really dont have any pictures?

2. On the other hand, one is to run on OT3 only BTs through Inc I and Inc II. Earlier based on data I found, people on OT3 run also their own Inc I. But I cant see, how you can get through the Inc I merely by running "others" through it?

Either the Thetan does not have to run anything, and the entire time of processing in Scientology was just running the Engrams of his body BTs, or there is something wrong with new OT III.

Who can tell?

Actually, the span between the appearance of the OT 3 material and the DIANETIC FORBIDDEN ON CLEARS announcement was about ten years.

David Mayo on 'Clear' (1991 article): http://www.ivymag.org/iv-01-02.html

It's unfortunate that the search function on ESMB these days is so bad, otherwise I'd suggest doing searches on obvious key words and phrases.

Here's a thread, and a link to another thread, both started by someone who also was concerned with the topic of PICTURES: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?15988-No-Mental-Image-Pictures It might help a little.

OT3 has been discussed extensively on ESMB. There are also some threads by people concerned about OT3, doing it correctly, etc. Suggest that you try to find threads on that topic, if you're so inclined.

More than anything, what you are experiencing now is the vague discomfort of being inside L. Ron Hubbard's head. :)
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
Surely if such a thing as a clear existed he or she would be able to mock up images in technicolor with taste and smell and any other perception he or she wanted.

I must admit, I'm very visual and yet memories are not seen but I know how they would look. I can draw them just not see them in my head. I can't tell you if it was ever different. I can took at something and hold the image clearly for a short time, but it does fade even when I know what I saw and can still use that information in drawing.

Images and mental images are fascinating things. The scariest images are the mocked up ones, not the real ones, or ones that have been added to by imagination. Hubbard scared himself shitless, his imagination, poor as it was, invented stuff that really sent his 'TA' high and made him feel that confronting it could send him over the top. It just wasn't real.
 

Div6

Crusader
So my question here would be probably a bit unpleasant.
And yes, again the Hubbard theory here.

After making the OT III level, and running it on few others, Hubbard for some reason came up with the policy of "DIANETICS FORBIDDEN ON CLEARS AND OTS".

That policy says as a reason for not running dianetics that...
A CLEAR does not have pictures, as he erased his bank already, therefore he cant run pictures.

1. I dont know people here, but I would like to ask you guys who made the CLEAR level, you really dont have any pictures?

2. On the other hand, one is to run on OT3 only BTs through Inc I and Inc II. Earlier based on data I found, people on OT3 run also their own Inc I. But I cant see, how you can get through the Inc I merely by runing "others" through it?

Either the Thetan does not have to run anything, and the entire time of processing in Scientology was just running the Engrams of his body BTs, or there is something wrong with new OT III.

Who can tell?

The concept of Post Clear "progress" is that the individual being that "is" the person is clear, but that there are enitities, bt's, clusters, epicenter beings, targs, and the Genetic Entity that are occupying the person's "body" and need to be "cleared". Some of them may need "full grade charts" put in on them, others may "blow by inspection". The "danger" to the individual at this level is mis-assigning the "charge" or "case" of the collective entities as his own, and assuming their valences. I have seen Dianetics successfully "run" on individual entities post OT III, but with a very tightly controlled "intention beam" so as to not wander off into waking up other "dormant" entities.


As for Inc 1. As Dart mentioned, Hubbard was a wreck at that time. To assert that "Inc. 1" is THE entrance way into the physical universe for BT's is just ignorant, if not malicious. I know of at least 15 different ways that occurred (several of which were mentioned in 1952 era lectures). One of the basic rules of auditing is that you have to address "who is there". With the release of Ned for OT's, the CoS (and Hubbard) deprecated OT III, suggesting in one HCOB from the NOTs series to let a person audit to a "big win", and then tell them that was it, and shunt them over to NOTs.


As a "Solo Auditor Level" it can be a wild ride, but the auditing is only as good as the auditor, in any case.
 

Veda

Sponsor
The concept of Post Clear "progress" is that the individual being that "is" the person is clear, but that there are enitities, bt's, clusters, epicenter beings, targs, and the Genetic Entity that are occupying the person's "body" and need to be "cleared". Some of them may need "full grade charts" put in on them, others may "blow by inspection". The "danger" to the individual at this level is mis-assigning the "charge" or "case" of the collective entities as his own, and assuming their valences. I have seen Dianetics successfully "run" on individual entities post OT III, but with a very tightly controlled "intention beam" so as to not wander off into waking up other "dormant" entities.

-snip-

Targs? Targ is term Hubbard coined around 1952. There's reference to "Targs" in the 'Battle of the Universes' tape with Mary Sue operating the meter and L. Ron doing his "research." It was pretty obvious that "Targs" was another way of saying the "n__gers" of the cosmos. In the early 1980s, G. Filbert self-published (photocopies in a binder) this: http://freezone-america.org/excal/excal00.html As I recall, it contains something called the E-Targ Rundown.

If you really want to wander through Hubbardian and e-meter significance for years and years, you'll want to have a copy of this book. It's a book that definitely left a big impression on Div6.
 
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Mystic

Crusader
So my question here would be probably a bit unpleasant.
And yes, again the Hubbard theory here.

After making the OT III level, and running it on few others, Hubbard for some reason came up with the policy of "DIANETICS FORBIDDEN ON CLEARS AND OTS".

That policy says as a reason for not running dianetics that...
A CLEAR does not have pictures, as he erased his bank already, therefore he cant run pictures.

1. I dont know people here, but I would like to ask you guys who made the CLEAR level, you really dont have any pictures?

2. On the other hand, one is to run on OT3 only BTs through Inc I and Inc II. Earlier based on data I found, people on OT3 run also their own Inc I. But I cant see, how you can get through the Inc I merely by runing "others" through it?

Either the Thetan does not have to run anything, and the entire time of processing in Scientology was just running the Engrams of his body BTs, or there is something wrong with new OT III.

Who can tell?

I can tell. The whole bullshit Hubbard-spew of his so-called "OT III" and "BTs and clusteres" is:

Purposeful Hallucination.

No, not iillusion, but hallucination.

And so-called "clears" don't have pictures. :hysterical:
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
Yet some wonder why I came to considerMoron Hubbard as bat shit crazy.

Why? Because he was batshit crazy.

Yet, how many thousand have "attested" to this "clear" thingie?

All he managed to do was make others bat shit crazy, too.

Sheesh.
 

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
So my question here would be probably a bit unpleasant.
And yes, again the Hubbard theory here.

After making the OT III level, and running it on few others, Hubbard for some reason came up with the policy of "DIANETICS FORBIDDEN ON CLEARS AND OTS".

That policy says as a reason for not running dianetics that...
A CLEAR does not have pictures, as he erased his bank already, therefore he cant run pictures.

1. I dont know people here, but I would like to ask you guys who made the CLEAR level, you really dont have any pictures?

2. On the other hand, one is to run on OT3 only BTs through Inc I and Inc II. Earlier based on data I found, people on OT3 run also their own Inc I. But I cant see, how you can get through the Inc I merely by runing "others" through it?

Either the Thetan does not have to run anything, and the entire time of processing in Scientology was just running the Engrams of his body BTs, or there is something wrong with new OT III.

Who can tell?

That's easy ... I can tell. I can tell that at a minmum you are PTS. So the very first thing is to get you over to ethics to get you straightened out. Once the ethics officer is done chewing your ass for awhile, you will then be taken over to see the IAS redge for wallet/credit card clearing therapy. Then, once you are in a proper mindset, we can deal with your questions, which stem from misunderstood words. So first things first ... 40 hours of having your faced rubbed in a dictionary as if it was a puppy pile, and then you get to play with clay for awhile where you will attempt to put into MEST some concepts which are virtually intangible. In the middle of playing with clay, you will get snagged for TR's as well as more redge cycles. Eventually, some course sup. will get bored with you to the point where he signs off on your clay demo ... considering that you were unable to complete it for the last 5 weeks, having to start over numerous times due to having it appropriated by others who needed the clay. By that time, you will be all f/n's, smiles, and VGI's, and ready to start back in on your course without your stupid phuggen questions. You had better be! Of course, if not, we can start the process over again with another visit to the ethics officer. Yup, that's HubTurd tech, alright!

Pete
 

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
2. On the other hand, one is to run on OT3 only BTs through Inc I and Inc II. Earlier based on data I found, people on OT3 run also their own Inc I. But I cant see, how you can get through the Inc I merely by runing "others" through it?

Either the Thetan does not have to run anything, and the entire time of processing in Scientology was just running the Engrams of his body BTs, or there is something wrong with new OT III.

Who can tell?

There's a Hubbard handwritten note (20 Aug 1968) in the III pack, distributed widely compliments of Wikileaks. It says it doesn't matter whether or not you ran Inc 1 on self. The next paragraph is a doozy, namely, (in capital letters), the EP of III is getting rid of all body thetans. "This does not necessarily include self," he says.

Now, WTF does he mean by that? Was he stoned when he wrote that? Was he being facetious? Was he just trying it on to see if his flock would swallow absolutely any bullshit that he put out? Not so much the equating of self with a body thetan, although that is bad enough, but is he suggesting that one could very well (and maybe should) "blow," in other words leave the body and go off and do something else?

But I digress. The theory is that you run BTs till they blow, often running Inc 1 but not necessarily. This has got nothing whatsoever to do with running self through Inc 1, and supposedly one can run self through Inc 1 after attesting OT III, as running self through Inc 1 is not part of III (Hubbard says).

Now, in reality (ignoring the niggly point that it's all bullshit and came out of Hubbard's ass), you are supposed to run OT III by, quote, intending the BT to the date of the incident and through the incident as given on the platen. It's not run like mere Dianetics where you ask the pc what happened. Oh no, this is a Hubbard super-level. The solo auditor is supposed to sort of project the incident telepathically to the BT and "intend" (i.e. drag) him through it. So after having this incident in mind, dated, in sequence, hundreds of times in order to do this "auditing" action, the person is somehow supposed not to have run it himself, and has the option of running it later if he wants to? Crazy! Think about it — you go through the different parts of an incident in detail dozens and dozens of times and you supposedly don't run it yourself at the same time?

You're right, there is something wrong with OT III. And there is no "new" OT III. II and III are still the original ones and haven't been replaced, as far as I know, although the checksheets have been fattened up.

Paul
ex-OT III sup at Saint Hill and ITO for several years
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
Clears (tm) have pictures. Everyone does.

Hubbard's analogy of pictures, facsimiles, etc., works to give a quick understanding, but in reality, all your senses are always receiving, so you are always receiving "streaming video", if the video included all the senses possible. Some images or streams become compulsive, or inhibited from view. When you discharge them, you don't actually lose the imagery, so you still have the "pictures". They are simply no longer compulsive or inhibited (in theory [in practice, I have no way of knowing if this works all the time, but I know it works most of the time with the people I work with, and with myself]).

The language is sloppy, Hubbard's claims were overhyped, but the fundamental process of "Dianetics" is a good way to break conditioned associative triggers for traumatic incidents.
 

GreyLensman

Silver Meritorious Patron
So my question here would be probably a bit unpleasant.
And yes, again the Hubbard theory here.

After making the OT III level, and running it on few others, Hubbard for some reason came up with the policy of "DIANETICS FORBIDDEN ON CLEARS AND OTS".

That policy says as a reason for not running dianetics that...
A CLEAR does not have pictures, as he erased his bank already, therefore he cant run pictures.

1. I dont know people here, but I would like to ask you guys who made the CLEAR level, you really dont have any pictures?

2. On the other hand, one is to run on OT3 only BTs through Inc I and Inc II. Earlier based on data I found, people on OT3 run also their own Inc I. But I cant see, how you can get through the Inc I merely by runing "others" through it?

Either the Thetan does not have to run anything, and the entire time of processing in Scientology was just running the Engrams of his body BTs, or there is something wrong with new OT III.

Who can tell?

Technically, OT III had nothing to do with the rule that Dianetics should not be run on clears and OTs. OT III (originally it was OT III, OT VII EP, and OT IIIx) was always the same, and yes, OT III completions were dropped onto dianetic actions at times.

Then (the story goes, how much truth I don't really know) LRH made discoveries about dianetic clear being just clear. Not a keyed out state and not different from any other clear. (from what I hear this has been rescinded - now nobody's clear until they buy an exemption...) And realizing Dianetics was being run wrong - thus NED (New Era Dianetics) developed, and from NED, came the realization that Dianetics could not be run on clears and OTs, and from that came NOTs (Ned for OTs)

1) pictures. Clear would be no reactive impactful pictures. You've disabled and disassembled the mechanism that forced them on you. You can have pictures if you want.

2) bt's (if they are) are others, they run what incidents they have. You may or you may not run a personal Incident 1. Not a requirement to run it for yourself, but also no requirement to stay away from it.

I don't know about what changes have been made since I was working through this stuff. There was never a new OT III, that I'm aware of. But then again, between GAT and the basics, much change occurs...

Also you have to realize LRH made this shit up as he went along. Just as the rest of us are doing.
 

TG1

Angelic Poster
Dart, come back.

The other night I read all of Paul's collation of your writings about the old days.

We miss you.

TG1
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
I thought some of Scn was quite helpful but there is no way I can truthfully state that being Clear and OT are very much as Hub advertised. They just aren't.
 

Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

Then (the story goes, how much truth I don't really know) LRH made discoveries about dianetic clear being just clear. Not a keyed out state and not different from any other clear.

-snip-

In 1978, Hubbard decided that "keyed out Clear is Clear," and that Dianetic Clears should not do PP, R6ew, and CC.

In 1970, Hubbard had written of Dianetic Clear:

"Only about 2 percent actually go clear on Dianetics. A Dianetic Clear as any other Dianetic PC now goes up through the Grades of Scientology and on to the proper Clearing Course. The Dianetic Clear of Book 1 was clear of somatics. The Book 1 definition is correct. This is the end phenomena of Dianetics as per the Classification Chart and Book 1."

A Clear of somatics Clear!

And don't forget those (actual) GPM Clears, with "one GPM Clears" and "two GPM Clears" and "three GPM Clears," and, I think, Hubbard was supposed to have made "5 GPM Clear."

And then - if I recall correctly - there was the lecture, 'The Story of Dianetics of Scientology', where Hubbard stated that he had made the first Dianetic Clears in 1947, and that these were Theta Clears. At the time of that lecture, Book 1 Clears were not regarded as being as Clear as the Clears then being produced. They were said to have been Theta Clears (stably outside the body), but later became (1970) Somatic Clears, but then with keyed out Clear being redefined as Clear (1978), and hundreds of Scientologists deciding they had "gone Dianetic Clear in 1947 after having been audited by Ron," and going "up lines" with checkbooks in hand, they became acceptable as Clears somehow...

And it goes on and on...

Hubbard left Scientologists with a whole lot of loose-ends, each tightly shrink-wrapped in cellophane as "LRH datums."

This can become perplexing to them, IF they omit the rest of the "Tech" left to them by Hubbard. It's really the senior Tech of Scientology, and can be found in this booklet http://warrior.xenu.ca/Brainwashing-front.jpg, and it overrides all the loose-ends, leaving a Scientologist will a contented sense of total certainty.

Turns out that the loose-ends are just a medium, used as a means to an end. Hubbard's system of mental-healing only needs to "work" up to a point, since it was only a front and a medium, or means, for something else.

That something else was inadvertently revealed in his 1938 'Excalibur' letter and in his 1946 'Affirmations':

"I have high hopes of smashing my name into history... [so] that it will take a legendary form... That goal is the real goal as far as I am concerned."

"Your psychology is advanced and true and wonderful. It hypnotizes people. It predicts their emotions, for you are their ruler."

What's happened is that part of the Tech has been "dropped out," as a result of people leaving organized Scientology and wandering off into into the "wog" world. Some manage to hold onto their certainty, as their identity as Scientologists, for a long time, despite having wandered off the reservation, so to speak. Yet, others quickly snap out of the Scio-trance.


From the 1991 article by David Mayo:

"It was PR and marketing considerations that led Hubbard to decide that certain people were 'clear' at a certain point..."

Hubbard was doing a major money-getting operation in the late 1970s, so as to build a war chest for the establishment and preservation of his monuments to himself projects, and "discoving" that there were oodles and oodles of Dianetic Clears, who needed to exit Missions, and "get up lines" (where Hubbard had immediate access to the money) was part of that money-getting operation.
 

Mystic

Crusader
snap snaP snAP sNAP SNAP

Chariot comes out, falls apart--was constructed by OTs (Obscene Thetans)

Cherub comes, dances left, right and center. Pulls out a didgeridoo, blows it up L. Ron Hubbard's :grouch: arse.

Blackness dumped on Scientologists.
 
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