Independent Checksheets Foundation

Veda

Sponsor
And that's because xenu is not a core aspect of scientology tech, as you would know if you actually new anything about the subject and as you have had pointed out to you before by others. :eyeroll:

The subject of xenu only comes up with regard to what amounts to "hubbard's recommendation of what needs to be addressed in auditing" specifically AFTER completion of the scientology "lower bridge". Even there xenu only constitutes the specific reason for hubbard's recommendation, not a fundamental part of the upper level auditing itself.

-snip-

Nonetheless, enjoy your delusions. :p


Mark A. Baker

"Xenu" is shorthand for "Incident 2."

Incident 2 is essential to OT 3.

THE major step in Scientology is to complete OT 3.

Clears who do not complete OT 3 are "at risk."

It's funny watching you participating in the Freezone vs Marty Rathbun feud, with you criticizing Rathbun, and being on the Freezone side, while both you and Rathbun attempt to use mis-information and old CofS PR lines on exes and "homo saps," while sprinkling your responses with "acceptable truths."

I'm only writing this because you are - while occasionally conveying accurate information - more often a source of misinformation and confusion for people who are attempting to recover from Scientology. Such people definitely do not need any more B.S thrown their way.
 

This is NOT OK !!!!

Gold Meritorious Patron
"Xenu" is shorthand for "Incident 2."

Incident 2 is essential to OT 3.

THE major step in Scientology is to complete OT 3.

Clears who do not complete OT 3 are "at risk."

It's funny watching you participating in the Freezone vs Marty Rathbun feud, with you criticizing Rathbun, and being on the Freezone side, while both you and Rathbun attempt to use mis-information on exes and "homo saps," while sprinkling your responses with "acceptable truths."

I'm only writing this because you are - while occasionally conveying accurate information - more often a source of misinformation and confusion for people who are attempting to recover from Scientology. Such people definitely do not need any more B.S thrown their way.

What's Baker going on about?

Xenu and other implanters (who are all dramatizing being psychs) are ALL THROUGHOUT the OOOOOOTTTTTTTTTEEEEEEEE TECH:omg:
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
And that's because xenu is not a core aspect of scientology tech, as you would know if you actually new anything about the subject and as you have had pointed out to you before by others.

The subject of xenu only comes up with regard to what amounts to "hubbard's recommendation of what needs to be addressed in auditing" specifically AFTER completion of the scientology "lower bridge". Even there xenu only constitutes the specific reason for hubbard's recommendation, not a fundamental part of the upper level auditing itself.

In short, xenu is not in any way fundamental to the subject of scientology, no matter what a sensational effect it may have to believe that it is. The practice of the ot levels generally are fundamental to keeping scientologists dependent on the church for guidance and service but xenu isn't even a substantial part of that. There is very little xenu in the upper levels. It's just a ridiculous myth created by a sick old man to justify keeping experienced scientologists dependent on himself and his cult and thereby maintain his personal cash flow and influence.

Nonetheless, enjoy your delusions.

Your statement that "Xenu is not a core aspect of Scientology tech" is a strawman argument. The "core aspect" of Scientology is the preparation of the person to be able to duplicate Xenu. That's why every moment spent studying the material presented by Bluebird, this latest Foundation, and the cult itself, is a step closer to reaching agreement about the UFOs.

Maybe you're confusing Scientology with Bakerology? If not, you're assisting in the cult's obfuscation of the zenith of Scientology's teachings.
 
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Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
Your statement that "Xenu is not a core aspect of Scientology tech" is a strawman argument. The "core aspect" of Scientology is the preparation of the person to be able to duplicate Xenu. That's why every moment spent studying the material presented by Bluebird, this latest Foundation, and the cult itself, is a step closer to reaching agreement about the UFOs.

Maybe you're confusing Scientology with Bakerology? If not, you're assisting in the cult's obfuscation of Scientology's zenith.

It also is the official (OSA/Dwarf) company line...

Designed as a handling for this unfortunate (for $cientology) Memorandum Opinion of a US Federal Judge, after the entirety of the 1978 version of the OT levels was posted to usenet and - at its peak, appeared on over 200 websites:

4 October 1996 - Memorandum Opinion - Judge Leonie Brinkema
"The dispute in this case surrounds Lerma's acquisition and publication on the Internet of texts that the Church of Scientology considers sacred and protects heavily from unauthorized disclosure. Founded by L. Ron Hubbard, the Scientology religion attempts to explain the origin of negative spiritual forces in the world and advances techniques for improving one's own spiritual well-being. Scientologists believe that most human problems can be traced to lingering spirits of an extraterrestrial people massacred by their ruler, Xenu, over 75 million years ago. These spirits attach themselves by "clusters" to individuals in the contemporary world, causing spiritual harm and negatively influencing the lives of their hosts "
 

MissWog

Silver Meritorious Patron
And that's because xenu is not a core aspect of scientology tech, as you would know if you actually new anything about the subject and as you have had pointed out to you before by others. :eyeroll:

The subject of xenu only comes up with regard to what amounts to "hubbard's recommendation of what needs to be addressed in auditing" specifically AFTER completion of the scientology "lower bridge". Even there xenu only constitutes the specific reason for hubbard's recommendation, not a fundamental part of the upper level auditing itself.

In short, xenu is not in any way fundamental to the subject of scientology, no matter what a sensational effect it may have to believe that it is. The practice of the ot levels generally are fundamental to keeping scientologists dependent on the church for guidance and service but xenu isn't even a substantial part of that. There is very little xenu in the upper levels. It's just a ridiculous myth created by a sick old man to justify keeping experienced scientologists dependent on himself and his cult and thereby maintain his personal cash flow and influence.

Nonetheless, enjoy your delusions. :p


Mark A. Baker

Okay, I'll bite.. so who was dropped in the volcanoes and who sent them to earth? What am I misunderstanding? Where did the body thetans come from? What is "the secrets of a disaster which resulted in the decay of life as we know it in this sector of the galaxy"? Who made earth a prison planet?

Thank you in advance for your explanation!
Miss
 

Veda

Sponsor
Over the years, Sceintology has used various angles and ploys. One of these is the "metaphor" angle re. the "Xenu PR flap" with the "wogs," brought about by the publicizing of "Incident 2" in the media.

It was first used by paid $cientology shill J. Gordon Melton many years ago. This allowed Scientology to "handle" an unwanted "PR flap" situation indirectly. Nonetheless, Melton, then an employee of the Scientology cult, was doing what they wished.

Does that mean that the Scientology cult was telling its PCs that "Incident 2" was a metaphor? Obviously not.

The objective is to take the attention of "wogs" off the embarrassing topic of Xenu, etc. and place it onto areas where the Scientology PR wants the "wog's" attention to be. It's a "handling."


The material of book 'History of Man' is not part of OT 3, but the approach to "handling" any "invalidators " can be traced back to H.O.M.:

From the 'History of Man' ["This is a cold blooded and factual account of your last 60 trillion years"] by L. Ron Hubbard, early 1952, originally titled 'What to Audit':

"Tell people who want to invalidate all this, 'Your criticism is very just. It's only fantasy.'"


It works like this: If it sounds really dumb or crazy, or is exposed as a lie, in front of any particular person or "public," not dumb or gullible enough to believe it, then, immediately, claim that it - whatever it was - is a metaphor, an allegory, a joke, a symbolic representation used as a teaching aid, etc. If this doesn't work, claim it was taken out of context, is only "a fantasy," or that the complaining or ridiculing person or "public" are literal-minded, etc.

In fact, the idea of the "literalizing of L. Ron Hubbard" was re-introduced, recently, by Marty Rathbun. This is an old Scientology PR handling from the many decades ago.

This is just a more gentle fashion - a "lower gradient" - of saying there's something really wrong with the "antagonistic" person or "public."

From the 1955 'Manual on Dissemination of Material': "Another frame of mind we would like to see the public have and register is that people attacking Scientologist have something wring with them."

"Why are you making fun of L. Ron Hubbard?
LRH_legacy.jpg
There must be something wrong with you!
"

It's a form of bullshitting which is used to cover an earlier bullshitting. It's actually pretty "workable," in that a fair number of people seem to fall for it, which means, incidentally, that it's likely to continue.

For example, this is what David Gaiman, then Public Relations Director for Scientology in England, told Paulette Cooper, in 1971, when asked about the billion year Sea Org contract:

From question/answer #19, in the 'Appendix' of Cooper's book:

19. (from Cooper) "DO THE SEA ORG PEOPLE SIGN A BILLION YEAR CONTRACT?"

(From Gaiman) "Never make an allegoric joke near literal minded humorless reporters."


Another angle is to simply say, "It's not important. It's tangential, not central."

Anyone who has done the Scientology Grade Chart knows that OT 3 is considered vital and central.

Why Scientologists continue to lie and spin about these things is a sign that anything but brief exposure to Scientology makes most people, not only less sane, but less honest.
 
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Goodbye

Patron with Honors
IANAL but, given a lack of a provable conspiracy to mass produce course materials, about the most that could be expected from law enforcement would be confiscation of the illegal copies.
Why bother with hard copies?

Gov'ts and companies have been computer-training their employees for over 30 years. There are plenty of fully-complete Scientology courses which incl. checksheets, course pack, processing lists, tape transcripts and tech dictionary in 1 single PDF file which a student can download to his laptop and take it with him into the course room. The training center could not possibly be held liable what the student brings and studies from his laptop, and does not need to be involved in the supplying of any materials whatsoever.
 

Goodbye

Patron with Honors
spent over a decade on and off of solo nots and there's lots of xenu and psyches on thewoletrack and priests and shit, electric shock incidents (which you realize really were electric shock incidents because it read on the meter! You also get to spend time date locating the electric shock incidents and others
Yes, priests, psychs, electric shocks, etc. are mentioned in NOTS Series 11-3 HCOB 22 Feb 84 "Assessment For Type of Incident", but there is no mention of Xenu in any Solo NOTs auditor course (OT-VI). And if I'm incorrect, please cite the exact reference.
 

This is NOT OK !!!!

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yes, priests, psychs, electric shocks, etc. are mentioned in NOTS Series 11-3 HCOB 22 Feb 84 "Assessment For Type of Incident", but there is no mention of Xenu in any Solo NOTs auditor course (OT-VI). And if I'm incorrect, please cite the exact reference.

How about the Solo Nots correction list? I believe you re supposed to locate BTs who are stuck in Inc 2 or incompletely blown from running inc 2 while you were on OT3, so you find those guys and blow them.

Furthermore, OT3 data is central to Solo Nots training - in fact, restudying all those handwritten materials is part of the checksheet on OT6 somewhere. The OT 3 packs are in regular use in the Solo NOTS courseroom.

You also can CLEAR bts if you want as an optional step - using the BT FULL CLEARING tech. This 12-14 step procedure includes asking the bt "Are you one", "can you separate out" - or something like that, and "do you have pictures that things?" and a final R-Factor "Good! You are one." that you give to the bt.

What are you separating the bt out of? The CLUSTER of bts caused by cluster creating incidents such as Inc.2!

:omg:

You know all this if you've been on the level and you know there more - MUCH MORE - that keeps the OT 3 cosmology alive and central all the way up to the current OT8 and perhaps beyond.

Someone here who comped OT8 should weigh in here an let us know what happens if you go into the FSO for a review after completing OT8. On the ruds, do you still have the charge assessed for ownership? "your's?, bt's?, cluster's? (charge).
 

Goodbye

Patron with Honors
How about the Solo Nots correction list? I believe you re supposed to locate BTs who are stuck in Inc 2 or incompletely blown from running inc 2 while you were on OT3, so you find those guys and blow them.

Furthermore, OT3 data is central to Solo Nots training - in fact, restudying all those handwritten materials is part of the checksheet on OT6 somewhere. The OT 3 packs are in regular use in the Solo NOTS courseroom.
Greetz "This is NOT OK !!!!"

Thanks for your response.

Very correct, OT-3 data does come into into play beyond Section OT III.

Perhaps I could more accurately have pointed out that no other data in respect to XENU comes later on up the OT Levels not already covered by the OT III materials. OT VIII also makes no reference to it, at least not within the versions after the original release. Supposedly some biblical materials removed since were on the first version of OT VIII.

And again, if I'm incorrect on that, please point it out.
 
You are incorrect about xenu ("sometimes spelled xemu").

I spent over a decade on and off of solo nots and there's lots of xenu and psyches on thewoletrack and priests and shit, electric shock incidents (which you realize really were electric shock incidents because it read on the meter! You also get to spend time date locating the electric shock incidents and others:duh:

There are many things relating to the concept of entities on the ot levels. Essentially that is what the currently released levels are all about. However they are not all predicated on xenu, not even ot iii.

Handling of entities, or similar, is a common occurrence in many spiritual traditions. That hubbard's 'advanced levels' seem to be wholly preoccupied with such things is quite reasonably a gross flaw with his advanced levels, but it is far from a reason to conclude that it constitutes the 'basis of scientology'. What it shows is the paucity of ideas hubbard had to offer as a follow up to the successful practices available on the lower bridge.

Moreover, the idea that the purpose of the lower bridge was intended as a precursor for running iii is risible. Only a person ignorant of the actual subject of scientology could maintain such a view.

Quite the contrary, iii was not cooked up until 1965 and then as something to be offered as a service because far too many people for hubbard's comfort had completed what was already available on offer on the lower bridge. So iii didn't become available until well after the basic theory, processes, & techniques of scientology auditing had already been largely developed. Later "developments" in the lower bridge were concentrated primarily on "rearranging the furniture" or "refinement of commands", not in fundamental changes to the concept of auditing.

Many of those who had completed the lower bridge were branching out on their own looking for new approaches to pursue in extending auditing tech. The potential for competitive alternatives was something well known to be intolerable to hubbard personally, witness his ill treatment of his many early colleagues in auditing research.

For reasons relating to the history of dianetics and his own personal "case" he decided on entities to be the focus of his subsequent "tech developments" and for the specific focus on ot iii as his upper level "case breaker". Dart Smohen has written eloquently on this elsewhere.

The conclusion that scientology is all about xenu, or even mostly about xenu, is a prima facie false one. It is a clear indication of a serious & comprehensive lack of understanding of the fundamentals of the subject.


Mark A. Baker
 

This is NOT OK !!!!

Gold Meritorious Patron
There are many things relating to the concept of entities on the ot levels. Essentially that is what the currently released levels are all about. However they are not all predicated on xenu, not even ot iii.
Mark A. Baker

Don't start "loading the language" with fancy words like predicate.

I never used that word, so stop "copying" :lol: Scientology intel op tech to whitewash and rewrite Scientology.

The fact of the matter Mark is that you and me and EVERYONE ELSE ON THIS PLANET and ALL of their zillions of BTs all share the exact same engram - OT3.

That was Xenu's operation, all the way.

The word "predicated" doesn't mean shit in this conversation.

You must be a bigger :squirrel: than I thought! :clap:
 

This is NOT OK !!!!

Gold Meritorious Patron
Handling of entities, or similar, is a common occurrence in many spiritual traditions. That hubbard's 'advanced levels' seem to be wholly preoccupied with such things is quite reasonably a gross flaw with his advanced levels, but it is far from a reason to conclude that it constitutes the 'basis of scientology'. What it shows is the paucity of ideas hubbard had to offer as a follow up to the successful practices available on the lower bridge.

Moreover, the idea that the purpose of the lower bridge was intended as a precursor for running iii is risible. Only a person ignorant of the actual subject of scientology could maintain such a view.
Mark A. Baker

Here's something Dave Touretzky has to say about that:

Quick summary of Scientology beliefs:

(1) you need therapy for
all the bad stuff that's happened to you from the moment of
conception onward;

(2) you're an immortal being and need therapy
for all the bad stuff that's happened to you in all your past lives,
too -- and you have to pay by the hour;

(3) you're possessed by the
spirits of murdered space aliens, called "body thetans", and they
need therapy too.
 
... The fact of the matter Mark is that you and me and EVERYONE ELSE ON THIS PLANET and ALL of their zillions of BTs all share the exact same engram - OT3. ...

Nope

Many individuals who have run ot iii and with whom I have spoken about their experience and who claimed to have benefited therefrom nonetheless indicate that they themselves never experienced "incident 2". As I recall, even hubbard admitted to this possibility in the materials for iii.

Not, of course, that it actually matters.


Mark A. Baker
 
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